Data State of The Game (11/13/2011) - IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT IN POST #233

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LouisCyphre said:
You must have missed the part where I said "make it -1 priority, like Perish Song, so that they can Taunt or Sub". What concern about Pain Split wouldn't that fix?

Maybe it's just me, but the "ooooo 999 Gengar learns it, how frightening" argument doesn't carry a whole lot of impact anymore.
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Negative priorty could actually be beneficial, if you have enough Hp to not be finished off in one hit. that is a decent point though.
Gengar is just my example though, one that people can identify with due to its popularity. There are plenty of other Pokemon that could use it well.

...Like Haunter. :p
 
The following is copy and pasted from an IRC conversation:
Athenodoros How does Outrage + Outrage work?
01:44 Engineer Outrage + Outrage - cooldown - Outrage - confusion due to fatigue
01:44 Athenodoros I see
01:44 SoS Is that codified?
01:44 Athenodoros Well, I don't think I need that in my life
01:44 Engineer essentially, you're focusing parts of your rampage into one concentrated part
01:45 Deck_Knight No, and it shouldn't work that way
01:45 Deck_Knight I could easily fix it though
01:45 Athenodoros A wild Deck_Knight appeared!
01:45 Deck_Knight Just by changing the CT types to "None"
01:45 Engineer okay then
01:45 jayjinde lol
01:45 Engineer I assumed you could since it said "Force"
01:45 Athenodoros So how would it work?
01:45 SoS I think that means you couldn't use Outrage in a combo?
01:46 SoS I could be wrong, it's almost 2am...
01:46 Engineer So in the same vein, you wouldn't be able to use Uproar or Thrash in a combo either?
01:46 SoS Or Petal Dance.
01:46 *** LightWolf quit (Quit: )
01:46 Deck_Knight Yeah, same logic really.
01:46 Athenodoros I see
01:46 Deck_Knight I'd make an exception for Uproar
01:46 jayjinde not to mention Thrash
01:46 Athenodoros May want to change actions Engineer
01:46 Deck_Knight Since it already allows combinations IIRC.
01:46 Deck_Knight And Uproar simply ain't that great.
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Another thing I found today in Data Audit:

Fly: The Pokémon flies up high, and strikes down in a tackle. While in the air the Pokemon can evade almost any attack, and can remain airborne, delaying the strike of the attack at the cost of three (3) energy per action. This move can hit any single Pokemon on the field, regardless of position. Gust, Hurricane, Sky Uppercut, Smack Down, Thunder, Twister, and Whirlwind cannot miss against an opponent in the semi-invulnerable stage of Fly. When used during the semi-invulnerable stage of Fly, Smack Down and Gravity will cause the Pokemon to crash to the ground, canceling Fly and making it take 50% of the damage it would've dealt as recoil. Gust, Twister, and Whirlwind will cause also Fly to always miss when used during the semi-invulnerable stage, but will not result in recoil as with Smack Down and Gravity.
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So... A flying Pokémon is stopped cold by Gust, Twister, Whirlwind, but not Hurricane? It seems kinda strange to me. Everyone I talked to about this agreed with me in that it makes little sense.

EDIT: After talking with SDS and others on IRC, I aknowledged that probably Gust, Twister, and Whirlwind have been allowed to stop Fly because the former two moves are the ones which get their damage doubled on flying opponents, and Whirlwind can phaze mons even in the Fly phase in-game. Hurricane, on the other hand, simply gets perfect accuracy, just like Thunder. However, Gust doesn't disrupt Fly in-game. It's a "flavor" thing we added in ASB, sort of, hence I don't see why we couldn't add Hurricane to the mix. Really, it only makes sense. Plus, there's been a lot of talk about Dig, Fly, etc being somewhat too strong, lately. So, why not adding yet another way to disrupt Fly? It certainly can't hurt balance.
 
^Agree.

In other news, there needs to be something you can do with your mons once they fill up their movepool. Something like the 3 MC can be turned in to a UC for your other mons, or maybe a couple of CC.
 
Athenodoros said:
^Agree.

In other news, there needs to be something you can do with your mons once they fill up their movepool. Something like the 3 MC can be turned in to a UC for your other mons, or maybe a couple of CC.
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Perhaps: you get one additional CC for each Pokemon used that has their maximum EC, DC, and every move they can possibly learn. Filling up your movepool is an achievement that should be rewarded.

But your mon will continue to get the 3 MC, in part as sort of a medal of awesomeness, in part due to tutors and new moves in later games and generations.
 
I don't like the idea of Pokemon that are fully trained getting extra counters in other forms; it's like a level 100 Pokemon getting extra experience. I don't mind the Pokemon to gather the MC if they ever get the opportunity to learn new moves in the future, but allowing the MC to be converted to CC or KOC to be used on other Pokemon (in other words, UC) just doesn't make sense. Your Pokemon is earning experience for other Pokemon on your team, or extra currency simply by being fully trained.
 
And to be fair, the chances of Pokemon learning every single move available to them isn't exactly all that high.

Realistically this is a pretty small issue.
 
deadfox081 said:
And to be fair, the chances of Pokemon learning every single move available to them isn't exactly all that high.

Realistically this is a pretty small issue.
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I don't know... With the gyms becoming realized, the leaders will likely be getting more counters than they know what to do with.
 
While it will be an issue in the future, it is a very, very distant one. Even with the gym system allowing a leader to have the same Pokemon in five battles at once (and RP's), it's still not likely to get done any time soon. Therefore, I agree with Flamestrike. Train something else now, not keep "training" it.
 
This is, to be frank, a nonissue, at least at this point; there's only one fully-built Pokemon in ASB at the moment (with a few obvious exceptions), and I highly doubt that more than a dozen Pokemon with legitimate movepools will be /completely/ bulked out by the time ASB's first anniversary comes around. However, seeing as we're bringing up the issue, perhaps the introduction of a 20 TC item that allows one to transfer the lion's share of the holder's counters to another Pokemon in the same battle is a plausible idea...
 
Also, very few pokes will actually become "fully trained" fast, the only things I can think on the top of my head are Ditto and Wobb (and I'm pretty sure the former isn't even on ASB yet), anything else would require a really tiny movepool or just an incredible lot of investment
 
Gerard said:
Also, very few pokes will actually become "fully trained" fast, the only things I can think on the top of my head are Ditto and Wobb (and I'm pretty sure the former isn't even on ASB yet), anything else would require a really tiny movepool or just an incredible lot of investment
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Just going to point out that there is a Ditto in ASB as I am reffing a match with one in it.
 
Terrador said:
This is, to be frank, a nonissue, at least at this point;
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Wouldn't it be better to deal with this before it becomes an issue?
I know Athenodoros already has a full Lapras, and the Gym Leaders will probably get a fair number of their mons there once the league gets running.
It's also a concern for Gen 5 Pokemon which currently have very limited movepools. My Galvantula only needs 34 MC to max out its movepool entirely, and I haven't even been trying to buff it up...

An Item like you've suggested might be a good solution though. Maybe the EXP Share could be repurposed to have a mon get another mon's Move Counters? Or we could use EXP All/Make something up...
 
I could conceivably see the counters going to a weaker ally that participated in the same battle.

"Watch and learn," as it where.
 
Terrador said:
This is, to be frank, a nonissue, at least at this point; there's only one fully-built Pokemon in ASB at the moment (with a few obvious exceptions), and I highly doubt that more than a dozen Pokemon with legitimate movepools will be /completely/ bulked out by the time ASB's first anniversary comes around. However, seeing as we're bringing up the issue, perhaps the introduction of a 20 TC item that allows one to transfer the lion's share of the holder's counters to another Pokemon in the same battle is a plausible idea...
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If people are desperate for a reward for using Pokemon that are already fully trained, then this would be OK. Like Rediamond said though, why 100% build out a Pokemon to the point where you literally can't buy another move? I can understand getting every single move that could be vaguely useful, but once you start buying shit like Rage stop spending UC on it and just go with MC from there on :/
 
I was wondering at what could happen when a pokemon doesn't have any moves left to learn: Maybe 10MC -> 1TC? Just a thought.

And Pay Day's description in the Audit still hasn't been updated to match the Hotfix from the last SotG.
 
zarator said:
Guys, one thing which always bugged me since the beginning of ASB are healing moves. Currently, their energy cost is (MAX HP/10) + 2. This means that, the larger the HP stat is, the higher the cost of the move will be. To me, this doesn't make any sense. Or well... it'd make sense, if the healing move actually healed a percentage of HP (say, 20%), instead of a flat 20 HP. But the way it currently works sounds quite silly. Pokémon with lower HP stats will benefit from a recovery move much more than Pokémon with a higher HP stat, because the former are regenerating a larger portion of their HP total. An Alakazam using Recover is healing up 20/90 HP. That's a relevant fraction of its HP (22%). On the contrary, Chansey using Softboiled recovers 20/140 HP. That's a much less impressive fraction of its HP (14%).

So, in the end, what I propose is: either we make Recover and similar moves regenerate 20% of the user's max HP (so to justify the energy cost), or we revamp the energy cost of the move. Because again, the way it works now makes no sense.
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This is purposefully done, since Pokemon with higher HP have generally higher inherent bulk, so as an offset it costs them slightly more energy to restore HP.

As far as rewards for a fully built out mon, I think that can be managed, with 3 Tiers:

Pokemon with maximized EC and DC with less than 5 total moves: 1 CC (ex. Ditto with filled up DC)
Pokemon with maximized EC and DC with 5-11 total moves: 3 CC (ex. Kakuna)
Pokemon with Maximized EC and DC with 12 or more total moves: 5 CC (ex. bout everything else)

No updates on the Gym effects? I don't want to just implement something like that immediately, since it has a large number of repercussions on arenas specifically.

I'll look over Mean Look, Block, and Spider Web, and see what I can come up with.

No suggestions yet on Pain Split, I'll look it over.
 
Please, append something to move Charge to make it easier to Ctrl-F for. Right now I can Ctrl-F for "Charge:" and get results for moves such as Wild Charge, Head Charge, and Sky Attack. Perhaps a double colon?
 
Then just hit next until you find it. Shouldn't be too hard. I may find a way of changing that when I get editing abilities.
 
Perhaps give Charge a double colon so when you search "Charge::", you get the move you want. Same thing goes with a few other moves, to a lesser extent. Stuff like Tackle, Slash, Smog, and probably others that I haven't thought of yet.
 
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