The Defense of the Titans Project

Oh well, i peaked gold class :D

Pokemon Showdown! Username: italian guy
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Ok so i reached the bronze class. However ill definitely try to get the gold one.



I did the majority of the battles with this team

This should be lots of fun-

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Stallmas
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Pokemon Showdown! Username: CharismaCrew
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Hi, just wanted to take a moment to post my team. It originally started as a heatran/amoonguss/slowbro core taken from Gato's team, as I have absolutely no experience playing stall so this is something very new to me. I decided to replace Amoonguss with Ferrothorn, as ferro has better typing and can set up spikes, spore while amazing wasn't really synergizing with my burn/toxic focus. I chose blissey over chansey mainly because I needed her more as a wish passer than as a standalone wall, and thanks to leftovers which heal up nearly all the special damage she takes, she can concentrate her wishes on her teammates. Donphan was chosen as my rapid spinner as I needed another physically based mon for my stall team and the electic immunity is appreciated, he also sets up SR quite well, giving Heatran more room to work with. And finally I added Sableye, who I use as my lead, spinblocker, and priority taunter/burner. Honestly Sableye is probably my favorite poke on this team right now, his stats are very misleading to his actual bulk and his only real flaw is WoW's terrible accuracy. Sableye also hardcounters reuniclus.

When building my team I decided to break it up into the roles I felt were necessary as so:

Hazards -- Donphan, Ferrothorn
Phazer -- Donphan, Heatran
Rapid Spin -- Donphan
Wish Support -- Blissey
Heal Bell -- Blissey
Perish Song --
Toxic -- Slowbro, Heatran
Burn -- Heatran, Slowbro, Sableye
Spinblock -- Sableye
Taunt -- Sableye

Special -- Blissey, Heatran
Physical -- Slowbrow, Donphan
Mix -- Ferrothorn, Sableye

Your Blissey has problems. Blissey should really have toxic, otherwise you are just flat out losing to volcarona and several other special attackers like (most) Latias. The utility of heal bell is not worth losing to those pokemon.

Blissey also really needs its defensive evs, I am not fan of fully defensive Blissey, but yours is pretty much 1HKOed by pursuit. The best spread for wishing, is easily 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd Calm

Your team currently looks really weak to Breloom, it can only check it with Sableye, Scizor could also be a massive headache is your playing something with a brain that doesn't mindlessly u-turn.

Your team looks pretty solid...the only thing that will probably beat it is pure power. This looks like it pretty much cockblocks every defensive team on the market, but not all teams are that defensive. Sableye can burn all physical attackers, but I'm seing a pretty annoying gap with special defense. In particular, Ferrothorn, Blissey, and Heatran all share a fighting weakness...you'll find it goes down to Tornadus, Landorus, and Keldeo, though keldeo may not be as big a problem with sableye. I'd include something like...well, not much can defend against landorus, but Skarmory or Jirachi or Hippowdon could wall tornadus, while jellicent could wall keldeo and tornadus. It may fair ok against landorus too, but I don't think so. I would replace Sableye with that, but sableye is just pretty much awesome. Or, on the other hand, you could consider an offensive check of your own, like genesect or garchomp, just when you know you can't wall everything anymore.

@ Neliel: I need a screenshot of the OU leaderboard with your alt listed. That's the only way to prove your bronze :0 ACRE of 1850 seems a bit too low to land yourself on the leaderboard, seeing how the lowest ACRE listed there is 1891.

As for your team, I know a good Jirachi Spread - 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD, this will guarantee that +1 Outrage from Haxorus never 2HKOs after SR damage; +1 Kyurem-B's Outrage also does 45-53%, an 81% chance to survive 2 hits from it.

I also recommend Max HP / Max Speed, Timid Nature on your Latias. It's your only thing that is preventing Keldeo and Thundurus-T from sweeping your team, and Latias needs to be faster than them to buffer their special onslaughts with Calm Mind. That said, I suggest Calm Mind, Dragon Pulse, Roar, and Roost instead of your current spread. Calm Mind is necessary to check Keldeo and Thundurus-T, while Roar lets you make good use of the hazards laid by Chansey and Skarmory. You can never have enough phazing on a stall team!

That being said, I also prefer you fitting Encore or Perish Song on your Politoed, either move compels the opponent to switch out, racking entry hazard damage. I'd either replace Refresh for Perish Song or Protect for Encore.

@ Sacean: Your Blissey's spread is sub-optimal, Blissey ALWAYS need max Defense. I suggest 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD, Calm Nature. You wont lose much special defense, but you gain significant physical bulk through this spread.

Here's an example: Specs Latios's Psyshock vs Blissey

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios (Neutral) Psyshock vs 252 HP / 0 Def Blissey (Neutral): 115% - 135% (823 - 970 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios (Neutral) Psyshock vs 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey (Neutral): 59% - 70% (388 - 457 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

DRASTIC Difference

I'm currently laddering with a sand stall team consisting of Tyranitar/Jellicent/Heatran/Celebi/Skarmory/Gliscor. Just wanna take a moment to post this team and see if there are any glaring weaknesses.



Also, I've just finished a rain team centered around SubDD Dragonite. I might also use this team for this project

is this correct?
anyway, speaking about my team, thanks for that jirachi spread, ill try it out and see how it works.
I was thinking about maxing the speed of latias, but i wonder if it can still take cb stone edge from terrakion or victini v-create. With max speed i can revenge kill stuff like keldeo, terrakion, (maybe garchomp but i dont have dragon pulse) anyway psyshock here helps me against venusaur and tentacruel.
The main problem about your calm mind set is that tyranitat/scizor/genesect can Pursuit/u-turn on me, and this is something i dont really want to happen. With wish+protect i still have a nice recovery, while i can check the move of choice pokemon.
Refresh here is to have a nice switch-in on Ninetales while setting up the rain, but also to win some scald war or to baitkill Jellicent. Maybe i should change toxic for perish song...


@extremebeta
your team looks nice, but the main problem is that you are lacking of a rapid spinner, which is a big problem if you are running a sort of full stall team. For example, Jellicent will always lose against rainstall teams, since u cant spin the toxic spikes but just heal the status, and 4 of your 6 pokemon really hates spikes (tyranitar and heatran mostly)
The only thing that i can suggest you is to put a tentacruel istead of jellicent, so you dont lose sinergy with the rest of your team.

extremebeta said:

I'm currently laddering with a sand stall team consisting of Tyranitar/Jellicent/Heatran/Celebi/Skarmory/Gliscor. Just wanna take a moment to post this team and see if there are any glaring weaknesses.

Hide

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Crunch

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Spd / 216 Def
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 96 HP / 160 Spd / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Toxic
- Lava Plume

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Spd / 220 Def
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Heal Bell
- Perish Song
- Giga Drain

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 232 Def / 252 HP / 24 Spd
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 72 Spd / 252 HP / 184 Def
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Facade

Click to expand...

The lack of a rapid spinner here really hurts this team, pretty much you are just free wins against any sort of balanced team with spikes. You may want to run ice fang on Gliscor for dragons, they have their ways to get around skarm. Heatran looks like a massive pain for this team, in fact defensive heatran actually counters jellicent, and burns the hell out of tyranitar. If gengar looks troublesome. Alakazam outright sweeps you. That's a lot of issues just in the top 20, I suggest changing.

Also, I've just finished a rain team centered around SubDD Dragonite. I might also use this team for this project

Hide

Politoed @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Protect
- Toxic
- Perish Song

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Softboiled

Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Protect

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Protect

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 16 SDef / 160 Spd
Careful Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Roost

Click to expand...

This team looks pretty solid, you do lack a solid answer for dragons outside of Ferrothorn, which can easily get overloaded and trapped. Terrakion can come in on Chansey and it doesn't look like you have anything to stop it. Jirachi honestly doesn't seem to help this team much, so you might be able to get away with just swapping it out.

Scarfwynaut said:

Your Blissey has problems. Blissey should really have toxic, otherwise you are just flat out losing to volcarona and several other special attackers like (most) Latias. The utility of heal bell is not worth losing to those pokemon.

Click to expand...

I haven't encountered any Volcarona yet, but otherwise for special sweepers I bring in heatran or sableye first for the status before switching to blissey. It is admittedly not as good of a response as just having both on Blissey, but it gets the job done most of the time.

Before this set I ran Wish/Protect/Toxic/Heal Bell, and while it worked... to an extent, it left me with nothing productive to do and set up fodder for anything that didn't care about toxic. I really don't want to lose Heal Bell though, as it's the lifeline for many on my team.

Blissey also really needs its defensive evs, I am not fan of fully defensive Blissey, but yours is pretty much 1HKOed by pursuit. The best spread for wishing, is easily 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd Calm

Click to expand...

If I was going to invest in defense, would I just be better switching it to chansey?

Your team currently looks really weak to Breloom, it can only check it with Sableye, Scizor could also be a massive headache is your playing something with a brain that doesn't mindlessly u-turn.

Click to expand...

I haven't had any issues with CB scizor yet, although this team has yet to go up against a SD scizor. Basically I can see offensive SD scizor being a problem, but bulky SD scizor gets walled by heatran.

I have been having issues with Breloom, not really because of spore, but because of it's dual grass/fighting stabs. While both Sableye and Slowbro can take any of its fighting type attacks, neither of them like taking a seed bomb or bullet seed, and while heatran or ferro can take it's grass moves it can't take a fighting attack. And it really isn't hard to predict those switches. If I can burn it with Sableye then it's a win, but that relies heavily on burn not missing or sableye being out when breloom comes in, depending on what set breloom is running, either way it's very unreliable.



@Gato, I kind of overlooked my shared fighting weakness among my special walls. I think the big thing I'm realizing playing stall is that even though I have pokes that can take fighting (or whatever) attacks, like slowbro and sableye, it doesn't really matter if they just fall to whatever other coverage they have to deal with.

Another thing my team lacks is a ground resistance or immunity, so I could definitely be open to adding Skarmory, but I'm not sure what to replace it with. I suppose the obvious choice would be ferrothorn, but ferrothorn also walls a multitude of things by itself. Basically I definitely see the advantages of the pokes you have mentioned, I just don't know what to replace, as everyone on the team has such an important role, and losing just 1 of them would mean losing something important, either being rapid spin, or priority burns/taunts/spinblocking, etc.

Pocket said:

@ Sacean: Your Blissey's spread is sub-optimal, Blissey ALWAYS need max Defense. I suggest 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD, Calm Nature. You wont lose much special defense, but you gain significant physical bulk through this spread.

Here's an example: Specs Latios's Psyshock vs Blissey

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios (Neutral) Psyshock vs 252 HP / 0 Def Blissey (Neutral): 115% - 135% (823 - 970 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios (Neutral) Psyshock vs 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey (Neutral): 59% - 70% (388 - 457 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

DRASTIC Difference

Click to expand...

I had no idea it made such a difference, thanks for those numbers.

Neliel, you have Skarmory and Jirachi to take Stone Edges and Politoed to take V-create. Checking Thundurus-T and Keldeo is more important, imo. At least give it max Speed, so it can check these threats with Rain-boosted Surf or Psyshock.

You can replace Toxic on Politoed for Perish Song. You can then replace Protect on Tentacruel for Toxic. This allows Tentacruel to beat Jellicent and Sableye 1-on-1, without Politoed's help.

Anyways added you to HoF >:D

One thing you could try is Gyarados > Slowbro . Gyarados can check Breloom to an extent since it can use the RestTalk set and absorb the sleep and it isn't weak to grass; additionally, it gives you a ground immunity and a reliable Sheer Force Landorus counter.

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Iambic
Hall of Fame Standing: Bronze (for now)
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1897
This sounds really fun, I'm gonna give rain stall another go.

EDIT: made top 100 (90th atm, looking to the closer to the top) (Here's a link:http://imgur.com/Qp4Ps)

My team is:

If i make another account, can i peak another class with another team? :O

Pocket EDIT: yes

Sacaen said:

If I was going to invest in defense, would I just be better switching it to chansey?

Click to expand...

Both Chansey and Blissey need defensive investment or else they get raped by pursuit, the special defense barely changes but the physical defensive literally doubles. Its not about being physical wall, its about taking any physical hits at all.

Choice band Scizor Pursuit to your Blissey: 84.6% - 99.6%
to my Blissey: 39.8% - 46.9%

Specs Politoed hydropump to your Blissey: 30.8% - 36.3%
to my Blissey: 36.7% - 43.4%

Unless you like your Blissey to be easily trapped in killed, run more defense.

So it's the same team I posted on the last page, but now my ranking is currently 1768 on PS!. I haven't lost one single battle with it yet, only one where I forfeited because I had to leave and stall games take some long time. The main issue I've faced with it is SubToxic Tentacruel, which is really troublesome to deal with and my only hope against it is setting up with Jirachi, but it doesn't like getting burned. Hydration Vaporeon is also pretty annoying, but it is normally worn down by hazards and Chansey walls him nicely. Deo-D + Ghost combos are not impossible to defeat, but if played well they can be a threat. Ferrothorn is also kind of irritating but as long as I get a Scald burn on it I'm fine. Some other threats (I haven't faced them yet, but I know they are troublesome) are Mew, Sableye and mixed Thundurus-T with Grass Knot. CB Tyranitar can also piss me off, but it's not that difficult to play around.

So... I need help. What can I do to remedy these threats?

@ papai noel

The first, change the Skarmory's ability. It seems to be a missclick or you forget to change it.

Scarfwynaut said:

idk maybe ill leave it to you guys: is there any pokemon that can go against bulky waters and scizor in one?

Click to expand...

Hp Fire rotom c says Hi. All it fears is a plus 2 bullet punch from scizor.

Ok, i got haxed so many times but i really want to reach the gold class, just to beat my friend mosquiton :D
ill try again with another account and team.

Pokemon Showdown! Username: lol stall 2
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I would say Zapdos is the best for that job. Great defensive typing, gets bulky waters out, and resists all of scizor's moves

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Noblesse Oblige4
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Using rain stall

Success




That's the version of the team I used for most of the run. I also used this team for the Dark Horse Project, which is why I couldn't use politoed. The vaporeon set I used was just bad and it was utterly useless. I'm going to replace it with Amoongus for the rest of my ladder run with this team.

EDIT: removed Vaporeon for Politoed