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The Defense of the Titans Project

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by alexwolf, Nov 3, 2012.

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  1. Dark Nikuman

    Dark Nikuman

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    Let's try stunfisk
  2. Je-Muzu

    Je-Muzu

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    I'm really struggling atm, i was wondering if people could make suggestions on what to change, P2 was there just because i couldn't think off anything else, but Confaguirus has been the star, people have not been able to handle the lost of there abilities so i'd like it to stay. and i'm not show how to put it with spoliers tag things, and sorry if i wasn't meant to post it here :S

    Politoed (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Perish Song
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    Tentacruel(M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def /
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Acid Spary
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin

    Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SDef / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    - Gyro Ball
    - Spikes
    - Power Whip
    - Leech Seed

    Confagrius(M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 SpA
    Calm Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Haze
    - Protect
    - Shadow Ball

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 240 HP / 224 SDef / 32 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Thunder Wave
    - Stealth Rock
    - Wish

    Porygon 2 @ Eviolite
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 SpA
    Calm Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Discharge
    - Gravity
    - Recover
  3. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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  4. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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  5. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    I think gato's team is fine to be honest, Latias is barely an offensive pokemon, calm mind simply allows it to do its job better of walls, a late game sweep doesn't hurt either. scarf-politoed is obviously offensive, but I think its fine. I think gato has a pretty swell semi-stall team going, a bit to g-weak for my preferences though.

    @ Je-Muzu

    you can swap out Porygon2 easily with Chansey on your team honestly, if you are worried about sun then flamethrower Blissey, sdD-Dragonite, or Latias. Your team also looks pretty volcarona weak, Blissey / Chansey or Dragonite can work, if you use latias you can have toxic on tentacruel to sort of cripple Volcarona.

    You may want to run a more defensive / standard spread on Ferrothorn and Cofagrigus.
  6. papai noel

    papai noel
    is a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

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    Ok, I've decided to replace Quagsire with Celebi, although I feel like I'm too dependent on Skarmory to win against physical dragons. I guess I'll try Shed Shell on it just to prevent myself against DragMag, which completely screws me over now. But I honestly dislike Shed Shell, so what do you guys think it's the best option?
  7. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
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    By the technical rules, I am allowed one Pokemon who has an offensive boosting nature or invests fully in an offensive stat. Latias meets neither of these categories. The team has worked ok, I surprisingly have not seen a genesect, but I know I would have problems. Mamoswine and terrakion are big, so I put Jirachi as physically defensive to better handle them. If genesect walks too much over me, I may try another team, shamelessly stealing temp's landorus/rotom combo.

    Also, if kyurem is unleashed, what would people suggest? Just give up stall for good? This probably isn't the best place to discuss it, but I'm curious how stall players would respond.
  8. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Dragonite seems very redundant with Latias, checking similar threats and probably less. Mamoswine is a prevalent threat in BW2, so you may want to try either bulky Gyarados or Skarmory to better handle it. By adding Skarmory, you free a moveslot on Ferrothorn for something more useful like Thunder Wave, Bulldoze, or Leech Seed. You can now probably go specially-defensive on Jirachi, too, to better counter OTR Reuniclus and Tornadus.
  9. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    mixed versions can't realistically get passed Jirachi and Chansey

    CB outrage hurts, to be honest it just forces you to run a more dedicated dragon check, and even then I think there are work arounds, I'm thinking hitmontop might be great to check it
  10. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Putting down hazards will make it easier to deal with Kyurem-Black. Combine hazards with Ferrothorn's Iron Barb damage and Gyro Ball, Kyurem-Black can be worn down quickly, although Roost variants maybe annoying.

    Your physically-defensive Jirachi also works very well in combating most Kyurem-Black variants. Watch out for mixed variants with Earth Power, though.
  11. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
    is a Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

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    - What are the roles of Pokemon that were essential to your stall team's success? Rapid Spinner, Physical Wall, Hazard Setter, etc.

    Each Pokemon on the team has a specific role which is why the team has pretty good synergy. Sun Stall overall is a very limited playstyle; however, this doesn't mean it isn't effective. The biggest concern when playing with the team is keep sun up at all times. Both Cresselia and Venusaur rely on Sun in both Moonlight and Chlorophyll. Typically if I lost the weather war I lost the game. For Ninetales, I opted for a Specially Defensive spread. Not only does it have decent overall bulk, but it can lures in opposing Weather Inducers and burn them. Ninetales is the team's primary SD Scizor check as well. Versus Baton Pass Ninetales could have a surprise Roar if they have an Espeon or Mr. Mime giving me the upper hand. Cresselia is the team's "anything Physical" counter. Cresselia MASSIVE bulk coupled with Reflect and Moonlight with Sun make it never fucking die. It counters a shit-ton of Dragons other "dragon counters" couldn't possibly dream of. MixMence? Fuck your Skarm. Band Haxorus and Dragonite? you're dead. But guess what!, Cresselia beats them all. It fairs well versus Conkeldurr with Reflect and then going to Venusaur, and it also can beat Breloom if need be after a Spore. Psyshock allows me to beat SubCM Keldeo. SubSeed Venusaur is just plain deadly. It absorbs Toxic Spikes, can lure in Heatran, can give you a 6-5 easily if sleep powder hits, and beats Bulky Waters. What else could you ask for? Even Latios loses to Venusaur with a SubSeed set. It gives the team a secondary check to... well everything. Terrakion is a biggie so Venusaur can help with that as well. Forretress is the team's hazard layer and spinner. Rocks + Spikes are hard to get up in one game, but Venusaur's sleep helps a lot. It is a durable spinner and gives the team a solid steel type as well. With Volt Switch it can maintain Momentum. Forretress is a good switch-in to Band Terrakion to scout the move it is going to use. Blissey is Blissey. What else is there to say. Although it isn't as effective as it once was, it still counters a myriad of Special threats such as Lati@s. With Flamethrower it beats Rock Polish Genesect and Venusaur, it can also beat SubCM Rachi with Flamethrower in Sun. Don't forget about Gengar, either. Sableye is the most important member, checking the most well-known stallbreakers: Reuniclus, Alakazam, Espeon, etc. Foul Play lures in Magic Bounce and that helps a ton. Sableye in Sun cannot be spun against, so it pretty much insures all hazards you use stay all turn . The priority burns are massively helpful in general, as it can even beat band-tar, band terrak, etc with a burn.

    - What was the most useful Pokemon in your team and why? You can also talk about defensive cores here.

    Cresselia is one of the major reasons to use Sun Stall, and it walls so many things, so I would have to definitely say Cresselia. Even Specs Dark Pulse from Hydreigon does an upward of 70% from experience and I could just Moonlight it off, effectively scouting a random set and move from a Pokemon. Sadly, Cresselia is just very dependent on Sun. Versus Rain teams with BulkyToed, Cresselia has a really rough time since Bulky Toed is really annoying for it. It limits its healing abilities massively, and it also can Toxic it which is bleh, meaning I have to switch. The ablility to wall just so many threats, however, makes Cresselia worth it in the long run. Being walled by steels and having no offensive prowess doesn't mean this sexy lunar bitch is bad!~ As far as defensive cores go, Blissey / Cresselia / Sableye / Ninetales really wall most of the metagame. Thundurus-T can be troubling, Nasty Plot versions especially, although it is troubling for many teams. I can't really discuss certain cores since the whole team is one functional unit with all Pokemon serving their purpose in a unique way.

    - What were the biggest threats to your stall team, and how you dealt with them?

    The biggest problem-Pokemon were easily Fire-types. Victini requires be to basically sack a Pokemon and go to Venusaur to attempt to Sleep Powder it; therefore, Victini is the biggest problems the team has. Nasty Plot Thundurus-T was an issue with Lum Berry, if Venusaur / Blissey wwere sufficiently weakened, or I had previously used Sleep Powder. Infernape isn't that big of a deal since Cresselia can wall it, I just can't Psyshock if it has Life Orb until it's weak enough or it's torrent-like ability (I forget whats it's called) will activate and I'll be fucked. Darmanitan requires me to sack Pokemon as well, but it's much easier to handle since it dies of recoil sooner or later. Specs and Life Orb Heatran beat Blissey and requires me to go to Venusaur to put them asleep, but even then it's troublesome. One last major weakness is Xatu, as it can Toxic Cresselia, beat Venusaur, Toxic Ninetales, and prevent hazards from Forretress from being set-up. I have to play safe around it and hopefully burn it from a fire-type move or I'll probably lose.


    - Did you find it easy or difficult to build a successful stall team? Explain why.


    I have like 10 stall teams built in my save file. It's not incredibly difficult, I've had trouble building HippoSand though, and it is incredibly frustrating to ladder with as a playystyle.

    - How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a stall team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with stall teams?

    I just sorta.. laddered? Lol. I thought it was pretty easy, I thought that laddering wasn't too hard. Just be in a good mood when you're laddering with a stall type or you'll rage like a mofo, or at least I did. js.
  12. Tizio Potente Ao

    Tizio Potente Ao

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    [​IMG]

    I think i got Bronze Class :)



    This is my team:
    Show Hide
    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Toxic
    - Roost
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn

    Abomasnow @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Wood Hammer
    - Earthquake
    - Blizzard

    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 28 HP / 228 SDef / 252 Def
    Bold Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Seismic Toss
    - Softboiled
    - Toxic

    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Serious Nature
    - Recover
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Earthquake

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird
    - Whirlwind

    Tentacruel @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Protect
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic Spikes
  13. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    Congratulations! Really cool team, there. Did you ever have a problem with opposing Sableye or Psychic-types? They seem annoying, but managable. I like the use of Abomasnow, however what does the Scarf set have over the E-Belt set on that team? The Ebelt set gives you an effective stall-breaker which you currently lack, albeit rare. Gliscor isn't that great of a stall-breaker since Rare is so prevalent and you lack defensive EV's. Tentacruel also wants Toxic or Blizzard > Protect since Protect in Hail doesn't do much D:

    but yah great job tizio!
  14. Tizio Potente Ao

    Tizio Potente Ao

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    Ty. I'll try subprotect gliscor because calm mind reuniclus is really annoying.
    Opposite sableye is not a problem because tenta can win 1vs1 and i can toxic him with blissey in predict or with toxic spikes. Otherwise i can kill him with abomasnow and scarf is really cool, especially with ice shard cuz i can kill +1 salamence or scarflatwins if they are in 1hko range and it's unexpected. Protect on tenta is useful but i'll try toxic.
  15. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    Expert Belt can revenge Dragons as well, actually. It can't outspeed Lati@s obviously, but its ice shard is much stronger and can ohko salamence, dnite after rocks, etc. ^_^ it also does better versus the therians.
  16. The Silent Storm

    The Silent Storm

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    Just posting to ask:
    Currently I have 1780 points (jesus, they're seriously haxing me) is there any way to make your deviaiton higher and as such to gain more points? i don't know if I can reach even the bronze class with +3 battles...
  17. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    just persevere! longer battles give you more deviation iirc, an advantage of using stall.
  18. papai noel

    papai noel
    is a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

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    Ok, I finally managed to peak Bronze under the nick curandeiro. I'm not sure if I'll try to get Gold because I totally hate stall lol.

    Ladder (open)

    [​IMG]

    Team (open)

    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Perish Song
    - Protect

    Tentacruel @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Protect

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Psyshock
    - Thunder
    - Calm Mind
    - Wish

    Quagsire @ Leftovers
    Trait: Unaware
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    - Scald
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Recover

    Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Seismic Toss
    - Stealth Rock
    - Wish
    - Softboiled


    It was really rough getting to the Top 100 of the ladder. This is probably because I hate stall teams and I have no patience when playing with it. I also hate laddering, mostly because when I just need to win one more battle to get to the Top XX, someone freezes me or crits me three times in a row. Using stall was not a fun experience to me, although this project was really interesting as a whole. I guess I'll answer the question in the OP tomorrow, I'm just done with Pokémon for today.

    And the MVP in most matches was probably Jirachi, although it is not that good outside Rain.

    n____n
  19. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    How did you deal with sun? To be honest it looks like you just loose to it if they can get politoed out of the game.
  20. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
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    The amount of offense in this metagame is sickening. Honestly I've had enough with the communities chants of "Stall is dead, the definition of a counter is dead, let's have this broken attacking thing in OU". There is literally no way to cover everything, and it seems no matter what, the opponent ALWAYS has that thing you can't counter. I don't really understand how people are achieving so high on the ladder, and I honestly put it down to luck. The first time I hit bronze it was mostly due to luck on teams I faced, because there is no way at all I'm able to repeat that. The amount of "sack something and revenge" pokemon in the game is just ridiculous, honestly stall deserves more than this. If maybe the top 10 were banned or something, there would be a chance, but I don't believe stall can make it anymore. Any team with Deoxys-D needs 3 Stallbreakers, RP Genesect, and Gengar to completely destroy everything.

    On the side of my rant here, what do you guys think about the general consensus that "stall is dead, definition of a counter is dead"? I honestly don't believe in it, and am having a hard time justifying any pokemon in OU that cannot be defensively beaten.

    On a side side note, after preparing for SD scizor, Landorus, and Mamoswine, they all disappeared and were replaced by volcarona and volt turn teams.
  21. papai noel

    papai noel
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    @Scarfwynaut

    This is actually true, but of all the four different Sun teams I played during the ladder (one was Bri's Stall, the other was Lavos' GeneSun and I can't remember the last two but they were sort of solid) couldn't really win unless they got the weather war. Against most Sun teams all I try to do is to poison Ninetales and then setup Stealth Rock to damage it everytime it comes in.

    I mean, it's a two-way street. If I lose the weather war, I'll lose the match. If the opponent loses the weather war, he'll lose the match. Of course I'm assuming the opponent is using Sun, against Sand teams this statement is not 100% correct.
  22. Myzozoa

    Myzozoa Throw-up on the internet, or get off on TV
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    what if you did a team of:

    1. Defensive Politoed
    2. Ferrothorn
    3. SUB CM Jirachi
    4. Bulky Sub-Roost DDnite
    5. Tentacruel
    6. Tornadus-t

    This is just rain balance leaning towards offense, yet it doesn't violate any of the rules. I'm not trying to troll, I'm just saying that it seems like there is something missing from the rules.
  23. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    ^ Good point, thx for bringing it up. I will talk with Pocket and see what we can do.
  24. cmurph

    cmurph

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  25. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    yah teams that run 252 hp / 252 speed sweepers are let in through this rule which i think is a bad loophole


    alt: noSHAVING
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