The Defense of the Titans Project

Pokemon Showdown! Username: until the end
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Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: none yet

Let's try stunfisk

I'm really struggling atm, i was wondering if people could make suggestions on what to change, P2 was there just because i couldn't think off anything else, but Confaguirus has been the star, people have not been able to handle the lost of there abilities so i'd like it to stay. and i'm not show how to put it with spoliers tag things, and sorry if i wasn't meant to post it here :S

Politoed (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Perish Song
- Toxic
- Protect

Tentacruel(M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def /
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Acid Spary
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SDef / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed

Confagrius(M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 SpA
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Haze
- Protect
- Shadow Ball

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 240 HP / 224 SDef / 32 SDef
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Wish

Porygon 2 @ Eviolite
Trait: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 SpA
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Discharge
- Gravity
- Recover

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Stahl
Hall of Fame Standing: -
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: -

Pokemon Showdown! Username: TitanicStall
Hall of Fame Standing:-
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: -

I think gato's team is fine to be honest, Latias is barely an offensive pokemon, calm mind simply allows it to do its job better of walls, a late game sweep doesn't hurt either. scarf-politoed is obviously offensive, but I think its fine. I think gato has a pretty swell semi-stall team going, a bit to g-weak for my preferences though.

@ Je-Muzu

you can swap out Porygon2 easily with Chansey on your team honestly, if you are worried about sun then flamethrower Blissey, sdD-Dragonite, or Latias. Your team also looks pretty volcarona weak, Blissey / Chansey or Dragonite can work, if you use latias you can have toxic on tentacruel to sort of cripple Volcarona.

You may want to run a more defensive / standard spread on Ferrothorn and Cofagrigus.

alexwolf said:

@papai noel

I believe that your team could benefit a lot from a Specially Defensive Celebi with a moveset of Psychic / Perish Song / Recover / U-turn. You are very SubM Keldeo weak currently, and Keldeo weak in general, as your only answer to it is Tentacruel, which although sturdy, won't last forever and straight up loses against SubCM. With Celebi you also get a real answer to Rotom-W except from Chansey, which is ridiculously easy to wear down with SR and Volt Switch. Psychic is used to 2HKO Conkeldurr, which could be troubling, as well as Tentacruel and Thundurus-T after SR. And last but not least, Celebi owns both Vaporeon and Tentacrule, which you had troubles with.

Now that you have Perish Song on Celebi (to beat SubCM Jirachi, CM Reuniclus, etc), you can remove it from Politoed, and give it any of Encore / Refresh / Ice Beam or even HP Eletric to 2HKO Gyarados, which seems as a major threat. Also since Celebi beats opposing SubCM Jirachi, you don't really need CM on your own Jirachi, whih i assumed you used to check them. So you can replace CM with Stealth Rock, Protect or U-turn (for momentum, Magnezone and Dugtrio) and Psyshock with Iron Head, as well as use a Relaxed nature.

Finally if you go with SR on Jirachi, Chansey has a free slot to use Toxic, in order to deal better with special attackers.

Click to expand...

Ok, I've decided to replace Quagsire with Celebi, although I feel like I'm too dependent on Skarmory to win against physical dragons. I guess I'll try Shed Shell on it just to prevent myself against DragMag, which completely screws me over now. But I honestly dislike Shed Shell, so what do you guys think it's the best option?

By the technical rules, I am allowed one Pokemon who has an offensive boosting nature or invests fully in an offensive stat. Latias meets neither of these categories. The team has worked ok, I surprisingly have not seen a genesect, but I know I would have problems. Mamoswine and terrakion are big, so I put Jirachi as physically defensive to better handle them. If genesect walks too much over me, I may try another team, shamelessly stealing temp's landorus/rotom combo.

Also, if kyurem is unleashed, what would people suggest? Just give up stall for good? This probably isn't the best place to discuss it, but I'm curious how stall players would respond.

GatoDelFuego said:

Working with a pretty anti-meta stall team and it works nicely, though for some reason after I made it people started to use Mamoswine in every single match. It may have some trouble against a sun team, but I haven't actually seen one in the past couple days of laddering

thanks to sayonara for the latias

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Dragon Tail
- Roost

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Thunder
- Iron Head
- Wish
- Protect

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 240 Def / 252 HP / 16 Spd
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Scald
- Rapid Spin

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Dragon Pulse
- Roar

Politoed @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Perish Song

Click to expand...

Dragonite seems very redundant with Latias, checking similar threats and probably less. Mamoswine is a prevalent threat in BW2, so you may want to try either bulky Gyarados or Skarmory to better handle it. By adding Skarmory, you free a moveslot on Ferrothorn for something more useful like Thunder Wave, Bulldoze, or Leech Seed. You can now probably go specially-defensive on Jirachi, too, to better counter OTR Reuniclus and Tornadus.

GatoDelFuego said:

By the technical rules, I am allowed one Pokemon who has an offensive boosting nature or invests fully in an offensive stat. Latias meets neither of these categories. The team has worked ok, I surprisingly have not seen a genesect, but I know I would have problems. Mamoswine and terrakion are big, so I put Jirachi as physically defensive to better handle them. If genesect walks too much over me, I may try another team, shamelessly stealing temp's landorus/rotom combo.

Also, if kyurem is unleashed, what would people suggest? Just give up stall for good? This probably isn't the best place to discuss it, but I'm curious how stall players would respond.

Click to expand...

mixed versions can't realistically get passed Jirachi and Chansey

CB outrage hurts, to be honest it just forces you to run a more dedicated dragon check, and even then I think there are work arounds, I'm thinking hitmontop might be great to check it

Putting down hazards will make it easier to deal with Kyurem-Black. Combine hazards with Ferrothorn's Iron Barb damage and Gyro Ball, Kyurem-Black can be worn down quickly, although Roost variants maybe annoying.

Your physically-defensive Jirachi also works very well in combating most Kyurem-Black variants. Watch out for mixed variants with Earth Power, though.

- What are the roles of Pokemon that were essential to your stall team's success? Rapid Spinner, Physical Wall, Hazard Setter, etc.

Each Pokemon on the team has a specific role which is why the team has pretty good synergy. Sun Stall overall is a very limited playstyle; however, this doesn't mean it isn't effective. The biggest concern when playing with the team is keep sun up at all times. Both Cresselia and Venusaur rely on Sun in both Moonlight and Chlorophyll. Typically if I lost the weather war I lost the game. For Ninetales, I opted for a Specially Defensive spread. Not only does it have decent overall bulk, but it can lures in opposing Weather Inducers and burn them. Ninetales is the team's primary SD Scizor check as well. Versus Baton Pass Ninetales could have a surprise Roar if they have an Espeon or Mr. Mime giving me the upper hand. Cresselia is the team's "anything Physical" counter. Cresselia MASSIVE bulk coupled with Reflect and Moonlight with Sun make it never fucking die. It counters a shit-ton of Dragons other "dragon counters" couldn't possibly dream of. MixMence? Fuck your Skarm. Band Haxorus and Dragonite? you're dead. But guess what!, Cresselia beats them all. It fairs well versus Conkeldurr with Reflect and then going to Venusaur, and it also can beat Breloom if need be after a Spore. Psyshock allows me to beat SubCM Keldeo. SubSeed Venusaur is just plain deadly. It absorbs Toxic Spikes, can lure in Heatran, can give you a 6-5 easily if sleep powder hits, and beats Bulky Waters. What else could you ask for? Even Latios loses to Venusaur with a SubSeed set. It gives the team a secondary check to... well everything. Terrakion is a biggie so Venusaur can help with that as well. Forretress is the team's hazard layer and spinner. Rocks + Spikes are hard to get up in one game, but Venusaur's sleep helps a lot. It is a durable spinner and gives the team a solid steel type as well. With Volt Switch it can maintain Momentum. Forretress is a good switch-in to Band Terrakion to scout the move it is going to use. Blissey is Blissey. What else is there to say. Although it isn't as effective as it once was, it still counters a myriad of Special threats such as Lati@s. With Flamethrower it beats Rock Polish Genesect and Venusaur, it can also beat SubCM Rachi with Flamethrower in Sun. Don't forget about Gengar, either. Sableye is the most important member, checking the most well-known stallbreakers: Reuniclus, Alakazam, Espeon, etc. Foul Play lures in Magic Bounce and that helps a ton. Sableye in Sun cannot be spun against, so it pretty much insures all hazards you use stay all turn . The priority burns are massively helpful in general, as it can even beat band-tar, band terrak, etc with a burn.

- What was the most useful Pokemon in your team and why? You can also talk about defensive cores here.

Cresselia is one of the major reasons to use Sun Stall, and it walls so many things, so I would have to definitely say Cresselia. Even Specs Dark Pulse from Hydreigon does an upward of 70% from experience and I could just Moonlight it off, effectively scouting a random set and move from a Pokemon. Sadly, Cresselia is just very dependent on Sun. Versus Rain teams with BulkyToed, Cresselia has a really rough time since Bulky Toed is really annoying for it. It limits its healing abilities massively, and it also can Toxic it which is bleh, meaning I have to switch. The ablility to wall just so many threats, however, makes Cresselia worth it in the long run. Being walled by steels and having no offensive prowess doesn't mean this sexy lunar bitch is bad!~ As far as defensive cores go, Blissey / Cresselia / Sableye / Ninetales really wall most of the metagame. Thundurus-T can be troubling, Nasty Plot versions especially, although it is troubling for many teams. I can't really discuss certain cores since the whole team is one functional unit with all Pokemon serving their purpose in a unique way.

- What were the biggest threats to your stall team, and how you dealt with them?

The biggest problem-Pokemon were easily Fire-types. Victini requires be to basically sack a Pokemon and go to Venusaur to attempt to Sleep Powder it; therefore, Victini is the biggest problems the team has. Nasty Plot Thundurus-T was an issue with Lum Berry, if Venusaur / Blissey wwere sufficiently weakened, or I had previously used Sleep Powder. Infernape isn't that big of a deal since Cresselia can wall it, I just can't Psyshock if it has Life Orb until it's weak enough or it's torrent-like ability (I forget whats it's called) will activate and I'll be fucked. Darmanitan requires me to sack Pokemon as well, but it's much easier to handle since it dies of recoil sooner or later. Specs and Life Orb Heatran beat Blissey and requires me to go to Venusaur to put them asleep, but even then it's troublesome. One last major weakness is Xatu, as it can Toxic Cresselia, beat Venusaur, Toxic Ninetales, and prevent hazards from Forretress from being set-up. I have to play safe around it and hopefully burn it from a fire-type move or I'll probably lose.


- Did you find it easy or difficult to build a successful stall team? Explain why.

I have like 10 stall teams built in my save file. It's not incredibly difficult, I've had trouble building HippoSand though, and it is incredibly frustrating to ladder with as a playystyle.

- How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a stall team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with stall teams?

I just sorta.. laddered? Lol. I thought it was pretty easy, I thought that laddering wasn't too hard. Just be in a good mood when you're laddering with a stall type or you'll rage like a mofo, or at least I did. js.

I think i got Bronze Class :)



This is my team:

Congratulations! Really cool team, there. Did you ever have a problem with opposing Sableye or Psychic-types? They seem annoying, but managable. I like the use of Abomasnow, however what does the Scarf set have over the E-Belt set on that team? The Ebelt set gives you an effective stall-breaker which you currently lack, albeit rare. Gliscor isn't that great of a stall-breaker since Rare is so prevalent and you lack defensive EV's. Tentacruel also wants Toxic or Blizzard > Protect since Protect in Hail doesn't do much D:

but yah great job tizio!

Ty. I'll try subprotect gliscor because calm mind reuniclus is really annoying.
Opposite sableye is not a problem because tenta can win 1vs1 and i can toxic him with blissey in predict or with toxic spikes. Otherwise i can kill him with abomasnow and scarf is really cool, especially with ice shard cuz i can kill +1 salamence or scarflatwins if they are in 1hko range and it's unexpected. Protect on tenta is useful but i'll try toxic.

Expert Belt can revenge Dragons as well, actually. It can't outspeed Lati@s obviously, but its ice shard is much stronger and can ohko salamence, dnite after rocks, etc. ^_^ it also does better versus the therians.

Just posting to ask:
Currently I have 1780 points (jesus, they're seriously haxing me) is there any way to make your deviaiton higher and as such to gain more points? i don't know if I can reach even the bronze class with +3 battles...

just persevere! longer battles give you more deviation iirc, an advantage of using stall.

Ok, I finally managed to peak Bronze under the nick curandeiro. I'm not sure if I'll try to get Gold because I totally hate stall lol.




It was really rough getting to the Top 100 of the ladder. This is probably because I hate stall teams and I have no patience when playing with it. I also hate laddering, mostly because when I just need to win one more battle to get to the Top XX, someone freezes me or crits me three times in a row. Using stall was not a fun experience to me, although this project was really interesting as a whole. I guess I'll answer the question in the OP tomorrow, I'm just done with Pokémon for today.

And the MVP in most matches was probably Jirachi, although it is not that good outside Rain.

n____n

How did you deal with sun? To be honest it looks like you just loose to it if they can get politoed out of the game.

The amount of offense in this metagame is sickening. Honestly I've had enough with the communities chants of "Stall is dead, the definition of a counter is dead, let's have this broken attacking thing in OU". There is literally no way to cover everything, and it seems no matter what, the opponent ALWAYS has that thing you can't counter. I don't really understand how people are achieving so high on the ladder, and I honestly put it down to luck. The first time I hit bronze it was mostly due to luck on teams I faced, because there is no way at all I'm able to repeat that. The amount of "sack something and revenge" pokemon in the game is just ridiculous, honestly stall deserves more than this. If maybe the top 10 were banned or something, there would be a chance, but I don't believe stall can make it anymore. Any team with Deoxys-D needs 3 Stallbreakers, RP Genesect, and Gengar to completely destroy everything.

On the side of my rant here, what do you guys think about the general consensus that "stall is dead, definition of a counter is dead"? I honestly don't believe in it, and am having a hard time justifying any pokemon in OU that cannot be defensively beaten.

On a side side note, after preparing for SD scizor, Landorus, and Mamoswine, they all disappeared and were replaced by volcarona and volt turn teams.

@Scarfwynaut

This is actually true, but of all the four different Sun teams I played during the ladder (one was Bri's Stall, the other was Lavos' GeneSun and I can't remember the last two but they were sort of solid) couldn't really win unless they got the weather war. Against most Sun teams all I try to do is to poison Ninetales and then setup Stealth Rock to damage it everytime it comes in.

I mean, it's a two-way street. If I lose the weather war, I'll lose the match. If the opponent loses the weather war, he'll lose the match. Of course I'm assuming the opponent is using Sun, against Sand teams this statement is not 100% correct.

what if you did a team of:

1. Defensive Politoed
2. Ferrothorn
3. SUB CM Jirachi
4. Bulky Sub-Roost DDnite
5. Tentacruel
6. Tornadus-t

This is just rain balance leaning towards offense, yet it doesn't violate any of the rules. I'm not trying to troll, I'm just saying that it seems like there is something missing from the rules.

^ Good point, thx for bringing it up. I will talk with Pocket and see what we can do.

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Bigtool09
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Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: -

Myzozoa said:

what if you did a team of:

1. Defensive Politoed
2. Ferrothorn
3. SUB CM Jirachi
4. Bulky Sub-Roost DDnite
5. Tentacruel
6. Tornadus-t

This is just rain balance leaning towards offense, yet it doesn't violate any of the rules. I'm not trying to troll, I'm just saying that it seems like there is something missing from the rules.

Click to expand...

yah teams that run 252 hp / 252 speed sweepers are let in through this rule which i think is a bad loophole


alt: noSHAVING