Counter that Pokemon - Mk III [Team 2 won!]

I think Adamant is superior because most of our team can beat Heatran quite easily atm, and we need the power output in shard.

I think SP is a good choice for hitting Wash, and we have another team slot for rocks if we want them anyway.

I guess crash is fine, as its usually used only to break subs.
 
Actually I really think we need stealth rocks now. I don't want to be forced to run stealth rock if we see a sweeper that easily sweeps them. Also thatd make team 2's job a lot harder as we either are forced to run stealth rock or have a less useful Kyurem. Maybe the endeavor+sash that we were unsure about earlier would work. But really I think that stealth rock is a must for us this turn.
 
Shurtugal said:
I think Adamant is superior because most of our team can beat Heatran quite easily atm, and we need the power output in shard.

I think SP is a good choice for hitting Wash, and we have another team slot for rocks if we want them anyway.

I guess crash is fine, as its usually used only to break subs.
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Outside of KOing Keldeo switch-ins and biting Hydreigon harder is there anything else you have in mind? When up against Tran the first to hit is the one to win so being to outspeed him, Celebii, and hitting Hydreigon with Ice Shard is cool for pulling off sweeps once Keldeo is gone and forcing loads off switches. (Plus I just edited the post with the new calcs and stuff) I can change it back, I'm just not sure what the stronger Ice Shards are meant for.

Okay, I'll change it for Superpower then.

Crash is the solid one and Spear is for breaking the Subs. (or am I just misunderstanding you?)
dragontamer74pe said:
Actually I really think we need stealth rocks now. I don't want to be forced to run stealth rock if we see a sweeper that easily sweeps them. Also thatd make team 2's job a lot harder as we either are forced to run stealth rock or have a less useful Kyurem. Maybe the endeavor+sash that we were unsure about earlier would work. But really I think that stealth rock is a must for us this turn.
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Well, they are SOOO many viable Rocks mons that it would be pretty hard for the other team to find a sweeper that isn't countered by one of them. (especially when you have to consider Heracross + Mamo revenging them) There's also quite a few SR + Spikes leads that are viable thanks to the release of Custap berry so I think we should wait on picking our hazards for the last pick as they are really important and we want to make sure to things going our way on that front. (Although, Rotom-W is not a viable pick for Team 2 so Superpower is just going to help against Ballon set-up sweepers)
 
Their Celebi is very slow so we would only need Jolly for Tran, but Wash walls it to death and Landy kills it and Heracross revenges, while Adamant is good for just hitting the opposition harder (which imo out weighs beating Tran on speed since (a) can't switch and (b) wash walled anyway)

With that said, adamant would be superior to hit Keldeo switch and take on Hydregion for Shard / Power much, much harder. Also, onto icicle crash, I meant that that its superior to icicles spear because we don't need to break any substitutes ( so basically you got it right)

I guess like life orb'ed what isn't hitting anything particular, but I feel that Heatran isn't that threatening and Adamant Mamo is much better much better since it's denting the opposition much harder. I would also hate to miss a KO on Celebi or Zhydregion just to hit something that isn't as threatening.

EDIT: When I said scarfers are supposed to revenge kill, I was referring to keldeo revenging Mamoswine.
 
dragontamer74pe said:
Actually I really think we need stealth rocks now. I don't want to be forced to run stealth rock if we see a sweeper that easily sweeps them. Also thatd make team 2's job a lot harder as we either are forced to run stealth rock or have a less useful Kyurem. Maybe the endeavor+sash that we were unsure about earlier would work. But really I think that stealth rock is a must for us this turn.
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Personally, I like this train of thought. For our (Team 1) final pick, we should probably bring a pokemon that effectively neuters whatever Team 2 picks for their final 2 picks. If we're forced to add hazards to that role, it limits what we can pick (assuming we want at least SR to support Kyurem-B) and it may be hard to find the right pokemon to achieve both ends. Furthermore, adding SR limits what Team 2 can pick as well. If we have a reliable way of setting up hazards, then SR-weak mons like Volcarona, Dragonite, Salamence, etc. are less viable for Team 2 without packing a spinner, and picking a spinner which would limit their choices too.

I also think Mamoswine is a good pick for Team 1, as its STABs currently hit 3 out of 4 team members for supereffective damage. In my opinion, the Sash/Endeavor could work, as it outspeeds both Celebi and Heatran (if Jolly) and can set up Stealth Rock and the fuck around with Endeavor + Ice Shard.
 
Shurtugal said:
Their Celebi is very slow so we would only need Jolly for Tran, but Wash walls it to death and Landy kills it and Heracross revenges, while Adamant is good for just hitting the opposition harder (which imo out weighs beating Tran on speed since (a) can't switch and (b) wash walled anyway)

With that said, adamant would be superior to hit Keldeo switch and take on Hydregion for Shard / Power much, much harder. Also, onto icicle crash, I meant that that its superior to icicles spear because we don't need to break any substitutes ( so basically you got it right)

I guess like life orb'ed what isn't hitting anything particular, but I feel that Heatran isn't that threatening and Adamant Mamo is much better much better since it's denting the opposition much harder. I would also hate to miss a KO on Celebi or Zhydregion just to hit something that isn't as threatening.
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Well he can come in on a predicted ice attack which is where being faster would help but I see what you mean so I'll change it back.

blitzlefan said:
Personally, I like this train of thought. For our (Team 1) final pick, we should probably bring a pokemon that effectively neuters whatever Team 2 picks for their final 2 picks. If we're forced to add hazards to that role, it limits what we can pick (assuming we want at least SR to support Kyurem-B) and it may be hard to find the right pokemon to achieve both ends. Furthermore, adding SR limits what Team 2 can pick as well. If we have a reliable way of setting up hazards, then SR-weak mons like Volcarona, Dragonite, Salamence, etc. are less viable for Team 2 without packing a spinner, and picking a spinner which would limit their choices too.
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The only concern I have with SR is that there are quite a few sweepers that can be chosen if we lack SE/SP for coverage. (Stuff like Cloyster or Volcarona that can slap a Air Ballon on to set up a sweep in their face) I'll go ahead and add it, though, as it's a filler slot so we might as well get our basic hazards down anyways. (Endeavor Mamo lacks a strong ice STAB to beat Celebii so it isn't really worthwhile)
 
LO Mamo doesn't seem like a very good candidate for setting up rocks, but I think we need it. Plus, I don't see many Pokemon being hit by SE/SP that fit well onto Team two (maybe Terrak, but Mamo is outspend by that).
 
He may not be the best but it's a filler option and he can pull it off. Celebii is outsped by him and the best switch-in to Rotom's Volt Switch so if Mamo is brought in it can set up SR as Celebii retreats from the possible Icicle Crash. He forces enough switches to be able to take addvantage of the free turn to set them up.
 
Only two submissions? Oh well, we waited four days, we can go ahead and vote I guess.

This is a single bold voting; you can vote for only one entry, picked from the following list:


When voting, you should post only the name of the user that proposed your favourite set, bolded (you can add whatever commentary you like, not bolded, under your vote). A properly formatted vote looks like this:

Melee Mewtwo said:
Melee Mewtwo

Heracross is really cool but I would actually prefer to see something with 101+ speed as our scarfmon as Team 2 has yet to pick their sweeper and Salamence would be a massive headache if we go with Heracross. Plus Scizor-Rotom works and it adds a Steel type to Team 1 while countering the new Celebii pick and checking the Hydreigon one with Bullet Punch. (or U-Turn if it gets hit by Rotom's TWave)
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Self voting is allowed. You'll have at least 24 hours to vote. Go!
 
Melee Mewtwo

Landorus just needs a bit of residual damage on Celebi to be able to sweep the current line-up. Mamoswine can easily kill slow Heatran and Celebi while forcing a revenge kill with Scarf Keldeo Secret Sword, which is easy set up for Landorus.
 
Melee Mewtwo

If we go with Terrakion in tandem with Heracross, we're practically begging for Team 2 to choose something like Landorus-T or Gliscor as their 5th member. Mamoswine can beat those two, and does a ton of damage to the current Team 2 with Ice/Ground STAB.
 
Voting is closed! Melee Mewtwo's Mamoswine is the winner and thus takes a team slot in Team 1. Sorry for no fancy formatting, I'm kinda tired at the moment, will update OP tomorrow.

The discussion for pokemon 5, team 2 can start. Time and rules as usual. Go!
 
Here are some calcs I made:

Code: 
Earth Power vs. 252/232+ Celebi 22.77% - 26.73%
Earth Power vs. 0/0 Keldeo 84.82% - 100.3%
Earth Power vs. 4/0 Heatran 295.37% - 348.14%
 
Focus Blast vs. 252/232+ Celebi 20.04% - 23.76%
Focus Blast vs. 0/0 Keldeo 75.23% - 88.85%
Focus Blast vs. 4/0 Heatran 130.86% - 154.01%
Focus Blast vs. 0/0 Hydreigon 149.53% - 176.92%
 
Hidden Power Ice vs. 4/0 Heatran 7.4% - 8.64%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 0/0 Keldeo 17.02% - 20.12%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 252/232+ Celebi 36.13% - 43.06%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 0/0 Hydreigon 68% - 80%
 
Psychic vs. 252/232+ Celebi 15.09% - 17.82%
Psychic vs. 4/0 Heatran 24.69% - 29.01%
Psychic vs. 0/0 Keldeo 113.62% - 133.74%

Code: 
Earthquake vs. 252/0 Celebi 28.96% - 34.15%
Earthquake vs. 0/4 Keldeo 78.32% - 92.87%
Earthquake vs. 4/0 Heatran 274.38% - 324.07%
 
Ice Shard vs. 4/0 Heatran 6.79% - 8.33%
Ice Shard vs. 0/4 Keldeo 15.78% - 18.88%
Ice Shard vs. 252/0 Celebi 47.02% - 55.94%
Ice Shard vs. 0/0- Hydreigon 70.46% - 84%
 
Icicle Crash vs. 4/0 Heatran 14.5% - 17.28%
Icicle Crash vs. 0/4 Keldeo 33.43% - 39.31%
Icicle Crash vs. 252/0 Celebi 98.51% - 116.58%
Icicle Crash vs. 0/0- Hydreigon 148.92% - 176%
 
Superpower vs. 252/0 Celebi 23.26% - 27.22%
Superpower vs. 0/4 Keldeo 63.15% - 74.3%
Superpower vs. 4/0 Heatran 109.87% - 129.93%
Superpower vs. 0/0- Hydreigon 140% - 164.92%

Code: 
Close Combat vs. 252/0 Celebi 23.76% - 27.97%
Close Combat vs. 0/4 Keldeo 64.39% - 76.16%
Close Combat vs. 4/0 Heatran 111.72% - 132.09%
Close Combat vs. 0/0- Hydreigon 142.76% - 168.61%
 
Megahorn vs. 4/0 Heatran 13.88% - 16.35%
Megahorn vs. 0/4 Keldeo 32.19% - 38.08%
Megahorn vs. 0/0- Hydreigon 142.76% - 168.61%
Megahorn vs. 252/0 Celebi 190.09% - 223.76%
 
Night Slash vs. 4/0 Heatran 10.8% - 12.96%
Night Slash vs. 0/4 Keldeo 12.38% - 14.86%
Night Slash vs. 0/0- Hydreigon 13.84% - 16.3%
Night Slash vs. 252/0 Celebi 36.63% - 43.56%
 
Stone Edge vs. 0/4 Keldeo 17.95% - 21.05%
Stone Edge vs. 252/0 Celebi 26.48% - 31.18%
Stone Edge vs. 4/0 Heatran 31.48% - 37.03%
Stone Edge vs. 0/0- Hydreigon 40% - 47.07%

Code: 
Draco Meteor vs. 248/0 Rotom-W 99% - 117.16%
Draco Meteor vs. 0/4 Heracross 109.96% - 129.56%
Draco Meteor vs. 64/0 Landorus 114.02% - 134.32%
Draco Meteor vs. 252/136+ Kyurem-B 120.26% - 141.4%
Draco Meteor vs. 0/0 Mamoswine 132.96% - 156.5%
 
Fire Blast vs. 248/0 Rotom-W 28.38% - 33.33%
Fire Blast vs. 252/136+ Kyurem-B 34.36% - 40.74%
Fire Blast vs. 64/0 Landorus 65.07% - 76.71%
Fire Blast vs. 0/0 Mamoswine 76.45% - 90.02%
Fire Blast vs. 0/4 Heracross 126.24% - 148.5%
 
Superpower vs. 64/0 Landorus 19.1% - 22.68%
Superpower vs. 0/0 Heracross 24.58% - 29.23%
Superpower vs. 248/112 Rotom-W 33% - 38.94%
Superpower vs. 252/64 Kyurem-B 48.67% - 57.26%
Superpower vs. 0/4 Mamoswine 77.83% - 92.24%

Code: 
Hidden Power Ice vs. 248/0 Rotom-W 11.88% - 13.86%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 252/136+ Kyurem-B 14.53% - 17.18%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 0/0 Mamoswine 16.06% - 19.11%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 0/4 Heracross 26.24% - 31.22%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 64/0 Landorus 109.85% - 130.14%
 
Hydro Pump vs. 252/136+ Kyurem-B 18.5% - 21.8%
Hydro Pump vs. 248/0 Rotom-W 30.36% - 35.64%
Hydro Pump vs. 0/4 Heracross 67.77% - 79.73%
Hydro Pump vs. 64/0 Landorus 140.29% - 165.37%
Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Mamoswine 163.43% - 192.79%
 
Secret Sword vs. 64/0 Landorus 22.68% - 26.86%
Secret Sword vs. 0/0 Heracross 29.23% - 34.55%
Secret Sword vs. 248/112 Rotom-W 38.94% - 45.87%
Secret Sword vs. 252/64 Kyurem-B 57.26% - 67.84%
Secret Sword vs. 0/4 Mamoswine 91.96% - 108.58%
 
Surf vs. 252/136+ Kyurem-B 14.53% - 17.18%
Surf vs. 248/0 Rotom-W 23.76% - 28.38%
Surf vs. 0/4 Heracross 53.15% - 63.12%
Surf vs. 64/0 Landorus 111.04% - 131.34%
Surf vs. 0/0 Mamoswine 129.63% - 152.9%
This might be useful for planning etc.
 
Let's try again with another nomination.
This one won't be popular (not like the past ones were but w/e..) I believe but in my opinion it could totally work for the team 2.
When I thought about this nomination I did not take into account Mamoswine (oh what a surprise, this pokemon looks familiar è_é).
So people probably will deny my nomination because of Mamoswine, this would be a terrible mistake.
In fact I'm honest on this point, because without my lack of attention on the last nomination I would not have considered Gliscor at first glance.


Gliscor_Sprite_by_mvidmaster.png

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Poison Heal
8 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Facade
- Sword Dance
- Substitute

Here is the plan, as I said, before Mamoswine, I made this set because it was absolutly terribly good against team 1.
The idea is simple, each time Heracross comes in to revenge stuff and all, you switch Gliscor in (at worse you take 32% from Stone Edge and it's really unlikely that Heracross locks himself into it considering our team) and you can Sword Dance or Substitute. You can obviously switch him in after a death for a safer set-up.

Then I saw Mamoswine, and I just tossed Substitute as last move. Mamoswine is 2HKO'd by Facade at +0, meaning that the pig can stop your sweep only one time at best. And the good thing is that Mamo got Icycle Crash and not Icycle Spear, this is Gliscor's chance to shine !
On the other hand, Kyurem takes like 70% at +2 (but he can break a Sub).
Rotom-W takes 80% at +2 from Facade.
Landorus is outsped and killed by +2 Facade.
And Heracross can't hit him.

So Gliscor would do a HUGE JOB by totally centralizing the game, because if you can control the enemy's scarf like this, there is a huge chance that it will define the game.

Basically it will be a two times game, one situation when Mamoswine is still full HP, Kyurem-B also, Rotom-W also.
And another situation when Mamoswine is around 60%, Rotom-W at 85% and under, Kyurem-B at 95% and under. In this very situation, nobody can stop Gliscor from sweeping the team anymore because they can't switch in (no matter if you Substitute or Sword Dance) factoring SR.

What can they do against him ?
Probably take a counter like Gengar but I'm not seeing it. There are other "counters" like Gyarados (given the SR weakness and the lack of SR I don't see it), Aerodactyl ..

So, the last pokemon of our team should be a pokemon able to put SR, I don't have many ideas at the moment, but there are so many possibilities. Deoxys-D could be an option.. at the moment I believe some kind of specially defensive Skarmory, bulky enough on the special side to take 2 of Landorus' hits could get the job done. Gliscor wallbreaking on Mamoswine could open the way to a Garchomp also..

Hoping to see some discussion back in here =)
 
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