Adamant max attack Ttar ohko with earthquake anyway..
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Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread
- Thread starter Blitzenith
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I honestly think Aegislash will easily be OU this generation. People argue, no he can't because of his low speed, no he can't because he is predictable, but they also fail to look at the positives of this Pokemon, and some of the things that they say is just outright wrong. Aegislash is a pokemon with 60/150/150 defenses, with ghost/steel typing to back this up. Just as a defensive pokemon this is incredible as this is great on stall teams if they are facing another stall team, they will need a spin blocker (honestly you would have to be stupid to put defog on a stall team instead of rapid spin), and he can counter many offensive threats. Lets look at OU from last generation, he can counter Breloom, Celebi, Cloyster, Conkeldurr, Espeon, Jirachi, Jolteon, Kyurem-B, Latias, Latios, Reuniclus, Scizor, Starmie, and Terrakion. This is not including all of the Pokemon that he is able to check. The other thing that people forget is that, even as a defensive pokemon, he still has the ability to revenge kill many sweepers thanks to priority shadow sneak. You need to look at the utility of this pokemon to decide whether or not it is worthwhile. The other problem people are saying with him is that he is very predictable, and this is completely not true. He is one of the few pokemon where it is very viable to have mixed coverage, and the only one to still retain great defenses with those attacking stats. He can use swords dance to go on a priority late game sweep. He can use automize to increase his 60 (not 50) base speed. He can choose to use choice scarf, choice band, or even choice specs to get a surprise kill against things like unsuspecting Gliscors. People also complain how predictable he is, but really prediction works both ways. Instead of using King's Shield to get into defensive stance I may just attack and therefore prevent you from setting up. This is why the 'predictability' argument is invalid, and clearly based off of someone who has never used him. I feel that even without focusing on the incredible offenses of 150/150, he will be OU due to his defenses.
His defences are sadly not incredible. 60 HP is 10-20 too low to avoid so many easy OHKOs.
Uh no:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom): 260-306 (80.24 - 94.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Anyways Tyranitar would be using crunch against Aegislash, but even then that would not make him a counter at all, a check if he is choice band, and only if your opponent does not know that he is choice band, but you otherwise can't get to +1 on the first turn, where as Aegislash can kill with either Sacred Sword or Iron Head
And I don't know what planet you are living on if 60/150/150 base defenses aren't incredible, for example skarmory has 65/140/70
And I don't know when everything in OU had earthquake, honestly even if it is in their movepool, they may not choose to use it.
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I think that Noivern will be high UU at least. It will probably be a great late game cleaner with amazing speed and passable offenses with a life orb. It's coverage is also decent with dragon pulse, hurricane, flamethrower, focus blast, psychic, and boomburst, which has good neutral coverage.
Yeah you're right. He is a bit tankier than I'm implying and I didn't do much research i just assumed he ran 252 SpD not HP. I've just been basing it on my garchomp wrecking him on showdown. But I don't think skarmory is a great example since it has recovery and fire/electric are not as common on physical attackers as ground/dark.
What I'm saying is that people saying he is great on stall teams are just plain wrong.. He is not a tank, he is a counter for some pokemon, but in general is a set up sweeper who needs a lot of help to get a sweep going.
Heh, I have the time. Some might unfortunately take a while to be banned (hooray a year of deoxys). Mostly guessing here
Uber
Blaziken
Darkai
Deoxys (all forms)
Genesect
Landorus
Thunderus
Shaymin-S
Gengarnite
Lucarionite
OU
Aegislash
Alakazam
Azumarill (will probably drop)
Blissey/Chansey
Breloom
Charizard
Celebi
Crobat
Dragonite
Ferrothorn
Flygon
Garchomp
Gardevoir (unsure)
Gengar
Gliscor
Goodra
Greninja (will probably drop)
Gyrados
Heatran
Jellicent
Jirachi
Keldeo
Kingdra
Kyruem-B
Lati@s
Landorus-T
Lucario
Mamoswine
Magnezone
Medicham (unsure)
Ninetails
Politoad
Roserade
Rotom-W
Salamence
Scizor
Skarmory
Starmie
Sylveon
Terrakion
Thunderus-T
Togekiss
Tyranitar
Vaporeon
Volcarona
Zygarde
Zapdos
Dropped
Cloyster (unpopular)
Conkeldurr
Donphan
Dugtrio
Espeon
Forretress (unsure)
Hippowdon
Hydreigon
Infernape (unsure)
Jolteon
Metagross
Reuniclus
Tentacruel (unsure)
Toxicroak
Venusaur
Uber
Blaziken
Darkai
Deoxys (all forms)
Genesect
Landorus
Thunderus
Shaymin-S
Gengarnite
Lucarionite
OU
Aegislash
Alakazam
Azumarill (will probably drop)
Blissey/Chansey
Breloom
Charizard
Celebi
Crobat
Dragonite
Ferrothorn
Flygon
Garchomp
Gardevoir (unsure)
Gengar
Gliscor
Goodra
Greninja (will probably drop)
Gyrados
Heatran
Jellicent
Jirachi
Keldeo
Kingdra
Kyruem-B
Lati@s
Landorus-T
Lucario
Mamoswine
Magnezone
Medicham (unsure)
Ninetails
Politoad
Roserade
Rotom-W
Salamence
Scizor
Skarmory
Starmie
Sylveon
Terrakion
Thunderus-T
Togekiss
Tyranitar
Vaporeon
Volcarona
Zygarde
Zapdos
Dropped
Cloyster (unpopular)
Conkeldurr
Donphan
Dugtrio
Espeon
Forretress (unsure)
Hippowdon
Hydreigon
Infernape (unsure)
Jolteon
Metagross
Reuniclus
Tentacruel (unsure)
Toxicroak
Venusaur
Forgive me if this has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but is there a possibility that a pokemon and it's mega stone would be in different tiers? For example, say Mega Houndoom is becomes OU, but without the stone, Houndoom remains UU.
Just saying it, Togekiss is the new Jirachi.
BurningMan
fueled by beer
If Houndoom gets used enough in OU because of its Mega Form it will be OU and you couldn't use it in UU even without its megastone, if it were UU and the UU council/senate (whatever is responsible for the UU tier in XY) would decide that Mega-Houndoom is broken in UU they will either ban Houndoom as a whole to BL or just ban the Mega Stone.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
Strongly disagree with all of these. COnkeldurr is still fantastic in the current OU meta, hits extremely hard, lasts a long time, and depending on coverage move completely destroys any check, fairies are barely a hit to it, theyre all pathetically weak physically or defensive or get wrecked by existing coverage moves, or the infamous poison jab.
Forretress is still an excellent physically defensive pivot that brings bug/steel to the table, and is so bulky it can make slow volt switches to bring in frailer pokemon, its survivability is still good with pain split, it lays down hazards, it spins, and it hits hard with gyro all. FOrretress still definitely has a niche, what outclasses it in its role, ferrothorn still can't spin, and still can't volt switch. If you think defog has made hazards and spinnig moot, I think this is a poor prediction, many teams still enjoy hazards on the opponents side and not theirs.
Hydreigon's dropping due to fairy typing is tragically near sighted. Hydreigon has an incredibly valuable niche. Now that steel does not resist ghost, ghost is probably one of the best offensive types, if not the best. GEngar's shadow ball, chandelure's and fucking god forbid mega gengars rips holes in teams now. Hydreigon, with tyranitar are the only dark types in the entire OU tier. On top of this, blissey is the only normal type in the OU tier. NOt every team fits tyranitar and/or blissey, so hyrdeigon can fill a ghost resist role quite well. Its scarf set beats ghosts, but still remains as a solid scarfer overall, due to its hazard resistant levitate and lack of weakness to levitate. Its scarf role is further made useful thanks to other faster scarfers, like keldeo or genesect for example being vulnerable sticky web. Not to be outclassed by latios hydreigon is not completely flattened by tyranitar. Tyranitar will see massively infalted usage with it being such a fantastic ghost counter, its mega form looking somewhat promising, and being probably the very best assault vest abuse. Mega tyranitar is FULL STOP to latias/latio, pursuit demolishes them and latios/as' grass knots and surfs are pathetici against Tyranitar's might assault vest. NOt so for hydreigon, superpower plows straight through tyranitar, its resistant to pursuit, physically bulky and u-turn stings it. Hydreigon also doesnt suffer from the hidden power nerf being comaptible with fire blast. Finally in regards to fairies, hydreigon struggles to muscle through any of the fairies, but has u-turn to retain switch advantage i nthe face of fairies. Sweeping teams is not the point of a scarf set, revenge killing reliably, and acting as a rock solid pivot is their job, and fairies dont really impede that for hydreigon. Even though ghosts such as gengar can pack dazzling gleam or focus blast, hydreigon still offers a resistance to ghost type, which prevents spam of the move at the very least.
Venusaur is another mon that will survive in OU. Poison/grass with thick fat and those stats is truly a fantastic typing combination. Perhaps you mean Venusaur will be UU, and OU will be the lowest tier mega venusaur will be allowed in, but mega venusaur is a fantastic defensive asset. Terrakion, breloom, keldeo, mega lucario, conkeldurr, blaziken, thundurus-T, garchomp, salamence, dragonite, kyurem-B, genesect, scizor, excadrill, tyranitar, all reliably checked or countered by mega-venusaur due to massive physical bulk that outdoes beasts like hippowdon, and a solid supporting/offensive movepool will mean it will survive in OU. I think mega lucario is the biggest revelation here. MEga lucario is probably right on the very top of set up sweepers in gen 6 outside typical ubers, and venusaur is literally the best answer for it if you dont know its set.
I've used all of these pokemon in gen 6 playtesting on showdown quite a bit and I have a lot of confidence in them. Btw, totally agree with your zapdos in OU rating. Zapdos is fantastic, beating fight/flying combos, and countering the tits off of scizor.
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By your logic anything with a weakness is horrible . I wasn't aware in a competitive atmosphere I am going to leave my pokemon in on super-effective attacks.Or blindly switch into them.
EDIT: Also if you are trying to tank EQ's with Aegislash you're doing it wrong.
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Yes, Hydreigon actually doesn't mind additional weakness that much because the Fairies are slower and Drei can just U-Turn or whatevs, plus, the seemingly bulky-offensive nature of the meta fits him perfectly. Buuut I'm kinda sure it will drop alot in early XY usage due to Fairy hype, only to return at later stage after the hype dies down.
Aegislash definitely has the stuff for an OU. It is predictable, but that's what teammates are for. His presence alone is making so many pokemon lose other coverage just to run earthquake. Earthquake used to be one of the best moves in the game but nowadays with so many levitators, flying types, good grass types, and air baloon it's not always the most desirable move for something like a dragonite to be using. Aegis has the stats, movepool, and typing to do very well in OU. Both on paper and in reality.
Greninja is trying hard but it is walled by just too many things and isn't as good as other bulkier water types that can hit just as hard as he does. His typing can change, but with his defenses it doesn't really matter if he's resisting an attack.
The mega-zards are great. Both are completely unique and have their own amazing offensive sets and also good amounts of checks and counters.
Klefki is an interesting one. I think he'll settle into low OU but he's in a position that mega-mawile is in. SO many people are stacking up on earthquakes and fire blasts to deal with aegislash mainly, that klefki and mawile end up being crushed by things they wouldn't expect to kill them. Mawile's sucker punch is pretty much enough to keep him OU though. He goes down to an EQ but not before taking 70% off of something.
Deoxys forms are pretty much still some of the best leads and I expect them all to be uber. Excedrill appears less threatening this gen and he will probably move back down into OU without too many complaints. Breloom is practically nowhere to be seen and might end up being a UU. With his nerfs, he might not be BL at all.
Greninja is trying hard but it is walled by just too many things and isn't as good as other bulkier water types that can hit just as hard as he does. His typing can change, but with his defenses it doesn't really matter if he's resisting an attack.
The mega-zards are great. Both are completely unique and have their own amazing offensive sets and also good amounts of checks and counters.
Klefki is an interesting one. I think he'll settle into low OU but he's in a position that mega-mawile is in. SO many people are stacking up on earthquakes and fire blasts to deal with aegislash mainly, that klefki and mawile end up being crushed by things they wouldn't expect to kill them. Mawile's sucker punch is pretty much enough to keep him OU though. He goes down to an EQ but not before taking 70% off of something.
Deoxys forms are pretty much still some of the best leads and I expect them all to be uber. Excedrill appears less threatening this gen and he will probably move back down into OU without too many complaints. Breloom is practically nowhere to be seen and might end up being a UU. With his nerfs, he might not be BL at all.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
sorry but this works completely counter to Breloom only. Really, take a long hard look at the OU tier. Who is using spore/stun spore/sleep powder. Breloom, venusaur, and that's it. Too bad for breloom, the only other mon that uses a move its gained immunity from completely walls and KOs it with sludge bomb. Breloom is now completely stopped cold by mega-venusaur (or just regular venusaur), celebi, and gourgeist. Other new threats liek aegislash, and talonflame perform quite well against breloom too. It lost low sweep on top of all these. Breloom got it the worst this generation, grass/fighting was never a great attacking combo, but breloom could always just spore something giving you a huge advantage, almost making it worht a teamslot everytime. Now, there's 3 full stops to breloom that are going to definitely see usage in OU. Breloom in the face of those pokemon has almost no effect on the game, and loses momentum everytime. It's kinda sad. Breloom is still scary, not every team has that grass type, breloom doesnt always need low sweep, but, it's still pretty bad for it. I mean, just what can breloom now hope to do to damage mega-venusaur, or celebi?
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Expecting all Deoxys forms to be banned strikes me as rather silly after how long of a chance Defense and Speed got last time. Their biggest thing was Dual Screens, right? With the potential rise of Infiltrator and Defog due to their greater overall effectiveness, that'll become easier to bypass.
Actually, expecting nothing to drop from Ubers sounds particularly unlikely after the exodus from the tier last gen. Except Manaphy, I notice; don't know if you forgot it but it sure sounds like it's got a shot without permanent Drizzle.
Actually, expecting nothing to drop from Ubers sounds particularly unlikely after the exodus from the tier last gen. Except Manaphy, I notice; don't know if you forgot it but it sure sounds like it's got a shot without permanent Drizzle.
I still find aegislash to be overrated. He has godly offensive stats in his offensive stance, but don't forget: stab ghost is only shadow sneak, and his stronger move is unstabbed sacred sword. Disappointing. And should something hit him second (bulky, slow mons) there is just no way he can survive. Taunt kills him, no more king shield mind game, and burns are a big deal for him, king shield doesn't block the emproved will-o-wisp.
He learns Shadow Claw.
I missed that. Ok, that's a semi reliable move, but still a 70 base power. Not exactly some mind blowing power. Firthermore aegislash can't hope to use any choice item for better power or decent speed. Life orb or leftovers. Predictable. you muist be good with king shield. And if opponent is not using contact moves, it's just free spam untill he hits you. Also, does infiltrator bypass king's shield as well?
Remember, he has 150 Base Attack, so 70 BP isn't that bad on him. And you could absolutely run a Choice Scarf set. Jolly Choice Scarf Aegislash hits 360 Speed, which makes him faster than any Pokemon under 115 Base with a +Spe nature. Infiltrator does not go through King's Shield I believe.
He's still faster than most of the metagame. And so what if he loses his ability? 150 Base Attack, yo. Also, starting in Shield Stance means you can swap him in pretty easy.
Specs Shadow Ball is his heaviest non-boosted STAB, tied with Band Iron Head if he goes physical instead. Of course, Head Smash can out-damage either.
I'm really interested in trying out a Specs set, since even if he gets outsped, he's taking those hits in Shield Form, then switches out after going Blade Form.
252+ SpA Specs Aegislash Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 213-251 (50.8%-59.8%)
Random example, but that's sure gonna hurt. Hippowdon can't switch in unless Aegislash specifically slows itself down to direct more hits to Shield Form; with this in mind, that doesn't sound like that wise of an idea.
I'm really interested in trying out a Specs set, since even if he gets outsped, he's taking those hits in Shield Form, then switches out after going Blade Form.
252+ SpA Specs Aegislash Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 213-251 (50.8%-59.8%)
Random example, but that's sure gonna hurt. Hippowdon can't switch in unless Aegislash specifically slows itself down to direct more hits to Shield Form; with this in mind, that doesn't sound like that wise of an idea.
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