Other 6th Gen Pokemon UU Candidate Speculation Thread

[xSilentDeviL]

Gastrodon- huge politoed counter, rain nurf + dont think he has the power to keep up this gen
Donphan - defog + sun nerf
politoed -weather nerf
ninetales- weather nerf
tentacruel- rain nerf + defog users out do his rapid spin + toxic spike buff
toxicroak - rain nerf
vaporeon- rain nerf + lack of power


all of these pokes were gen 5 OU that i believe will drop to UU gen VI

 

[Icy_eagle]

I agree that Starmie may potentially fall for the first time since RBY, but not because of Defog. Defog has a huge disadvantage in that it clears BOTH side's entry hazards, and its distribution is questionable, sure stuff like Scizor get it, but good luck finding space for it on a Scizor set.

Starmie has major issues with both Aegislash and Trevenant, and Aegislash is probably the new premier spinblocker of this generation.

252+ Atk Aegislash Shadow Sneak does 71-83% against 0/0 Starmie

Offensive Starmie (252 SpA, Life Orb, Analytic) Surf OHKO's 0/252SpD Offensive form Aegislash. Without Life Orb Hydro Pump is a guaranteed OHKO while Surf ranges from 91-108%

edit: according to serebii blade form has 60/50/50 defenses, when I assumed 60/60/60, need to do the calculations over

0/252SpD Blade Forme os OHKO'd by 252SpA surf even without Life Orb boost (assuming Starmie is carrying Analytic)

 

[Dakar]

Conkeldurr is the first thing that comes to my mind , with all those fairies around , new fighting types like hawklucha rising the bar, and new defensive threats like aegislash i doupt that conkeldurr has enough power to make it up to OU this gen .

I'd have to disagree with that. I think that with the shift towards Bulky Offense this gen will make Konk shine even brighter. It has access to Poision Jab, and will love having Assault Vest at its hands. I see a set like:

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
136 HP / 252 Atk / 100 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
Guts
-Power-Up Punch
-Poison Jab
-Drain Punch
-ThunderPunch

It would forgo initially massive attack power for tankiness, allowing it to set up with Power-Up Punches, heal itself with the ever-reliable Drain Punch, kill pesky Faries and spread Poison with Poision Jab, and kill things like Skarm, Aegislash, MMawile, Talonflame, and others with Thunderpunch.

 

[hodges]

I'd have to disagree with that. I think that with the shift towards Bulky Offense this gen will make Konk shine even brighter. It has access to Poision Jab, and will love having Assault Vest at its hands. I see a set like:

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
136 HP / 252 Atk / 100 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
Guts
-Power-Up Punch
-Poison Jab
-Drain Punch
-ThunderPunch

It would forgo initially massive attack power for tankiness, allowing it to set up with Power-Up Punches, heal itself with the ever-reliable Drain Punch, kill pesky Faries and spread Poison with Poision Jab, and kill things like Skarm, Aegislash, MMawile, Talonflame, and others with Thunderpunch.

You mean adamant nature right?

 

[Dakar]

Gastrodon- huge politoed counter, rain nurf + dont think he has the power to keep up this gen
Donphan - defog + sun nerf
politoed -weather nerf
ninetales- weather nerf
tentacruel- rain nerf + defog users out do his rapid spin + toxic spike buff
toxicroak - rain nerf
vaporeon- rain nerf + lack of power


all of these pokes were gen 5 OU that i believe will drop to UU gen VI

Everything seems about right, bar Tenta and Poli. Both of them are quintessential bulky waters; their bulk will help them float in OU. Poli would never stay in for more than 10 turns last gen, and was frequently switched in and out with Rotom-W. There may be no more perma-rain, but Poli won't drop to UU.

As for Tenta, he was never 100% reliant on rain or hazards. He created a great core with Ferro, and since Ferro won't be dropping, neither will he. TSpikes, no matter how short they are on the field can still win games. With the popularity of fairies that will come, and the buff to some Poison type moves, Tenta's Poison STAB will be for more than just a fighting resist, and defog will in no way remove the usefulness of spinners. I think Tenta will stay OU.

 

[Dakar]

You mean adamant nature right?

Nope, last Gen I had a setup sweeper Conk that I ran with 252 Sp. Def and Careful which allowed it to tank things that it should have had no business tanking, and then KOing back or restoring enough HP through Drain Punch to stay in the fight.

 

[Thorhammer]

Diggersby gets Quick Attack. It's no Aqua Jet, but it should be useful for neutral hits.

 

[xSilentDeviL]

Everything seems about right, bar Tenta and Poli. Both of them are quintessential bulky waters; their bulk will help them float in OU. Poli would never stay in for more than 10 turns last gen, and was frequently switched in and out with Rotom-W. There may be no more perma-rain, but Poli won't drop to UU.

As for Tenta, he was never 100% reliant on rain or hazards. He created a great core with Ferro, and since Ferro won't be dropping, neither will he. TSpikes, no matter how short they are on the field can still win games. With the popularity of fairies that will come, and the buff to some Poison type moves, Tenta's Poison STAB will be for more than just a fighting resist, and defog will in no way remove the usefulness of spinners. I think Tenta will stay OU.

funny i just played against the two of them, and they left good impressions on me. That fairy resist tentacruel gains is pretty awesome

 

[hodges]

funny i just played against the two of them, and they left good impressions on me. That fairy resist tentacruel gains is pretty awesome

and it has a stab to hit back as well

 

[Kietharr]

Gastrodon- huge politoed counter, rain nurf + dont think he has the power to keep up this gen
Donphan - defog + sun nerf
politoed -weather nerf
ninetales- weather nerf
tentacruel- rain nerf + defog users out do his rapid spin + toxic spike buff
toxicroak - rain nerf
vaporeon- rain nerf + lack of power


all of these pokes were gen 5 OU that i believe will drop to UU gen VI

Neither Politoed nor Tentacruel will fall. Politoed is still the only user of Drizzle in OU and is actually fairly strong due to the rain boost to hydro pump. Tentacruel was OU before drizzle due to its typing. Ninetails and Politoed are two completely different beasts, Politoed's typing and stat distribution make him a lot more useful than Ninetails is, auto-weather aside. Defog will NOT be the end of spinners for reasons that have been laid out in this thread already, and sun is arguably a better weather than it was before simply because now it has two potential auto-weather setups now. I'm actually of the opinion that Ninetails will also remain a staple of OU sun teams.

 

[xSilentDeviL]

I'd have to disagree with that. I think that with the shift towards Bulky Offense this gen will make Konk shine even brighter. It has access to Poision Jab, and will love having Assault Vest at its hands. I see a set like:

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
136 HP / 252 Atk / 100 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
Guts
-Power-Up Punch
-Poison Jab
-Drain Punch
-ThunderPunch

It would forgo initially massive attack power for tankiness, allowing it to set up with Power-Up Punches, heal itself with the ever-reliable Drain Punch, kill pesky Faries and spread Poison with Poision Jab, and kill things like Skarm, Aegislash, MMawile, Talonflame, and others with Thunderpunch.

I think a " /IcePunch " needs to be placed next to thunderpunch for the ability to hit landorus, gliscor, dragons, thundurus etc.

 

[Adonzo]

I believe this thread is lingering a bit too much on debates surrounding which mons may or may not be UU. Maybe focus on mons with little chance of making OU but have a solid shot at UU.

Example: Chesnaught. Go!

 

[xSilentDeviL]

I'd also like to point out tentacruels ability to wall volcarona. Volcarona has gained a fairy resist, and stealth rocks has been nerfed due to defog, making volcarona even scarier this gen. Tentacruel will be needed on teams that cant fit a heatran comfortably on their team

 

[hodges]

Is chesnaught better then breloom? It has better defence but does it get mach punch? Spore has been nerfed but its still useful on brellom I think it depends on which of those are considered better maybe both stay in UU

 

[Kietharr]

Yes, and apples are better than oranges. Breloom is currently OU, Chesnaught will probably be UU. Breloom is a priority attacker, Chesnaught is a bulky attacker. Neither are going to like Talonflame's priority acrobatics/brave bird hanging around in OU, so Breloom might end up in UU after all.

Apparently Chesnaught gets Synthesis according to a post in the research thread though, something I hadn't considered in my initial evaluation. It still won't be OU, but this makes it a much more potent tank in UU. He gets basically everything you'd ever want on him except for maybe Mach/Bullet Punch, Stealth Rock and Shell Smash.

 

[Oddish is the best]

Hmm. Since it's possible that Roserade may go OU (thanks to getting both Sleep Powder and Spikes), what Grass-type do you think may replace her?

I've been using spikes+sleep powder Roserade and it is nice but I don't think it will be enough to push it to OU. Looks like Bl for Roserade:S

If it does go to OU, I think that Amonguss would be the replacement because it has the same typing plus bulkier defenses.

 

[hodges]

same as rapid spin BUT it cannot be blocked by ghosts

Are there any good users? Starmie can take on most ghosts so doesn't really remove rapid spin

 

[666lumberjack]

Defog always keeps stealth rock etc off field or just that turn like rapid spin? Isnt much of a nerf then

It's a HUGE nerf to the "slower" entry hazards like Spikes and Toxic Spikes. The issue with Rapid Spin was never the turn it took, it was the combination of low distribution and the fact it could be blocked without too much difficulty. Both of these issues are fixed with Defog since everything and its mother with wings gets it and and nothing can concievably block it. Despite the downsides, it means if you really want to clear hazards, nothing can stop you doing so. It's a big buff for anything 4x rock weak.

On the topic of UU mons, Flygon is looking very good this gen with Defog and essentially hazards immunity if it carries leftovers. Combine that with solid typing, modest bulk, reliable recovery and a threatening offensive presence and you have the perfect defogger for bulky offensive teams.

 

[KOTR]

Stealth Rock was not nerfed. Defog was buffed. There's a difference.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Dragalge is really fuckin' cool, and he'll be a great addition for UU, btw, adaptabillity 0 investment sludge wave coming from dragalge hits harder than 252 SpA kingdra surf
252 SpA Life Orb Kingdra Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mew: 164-192 (48.09 - 56.3%) -- 88.28% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mew: 174-205 (51.02 - 60.11%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

of course specially defensive/0 SpA dragalge will probably not use life orb, but this is one thing to note (and this is assuming 95 BP surf since I was too lazy to change it lol)

(BIG NOTE: HIDDEN ABILITIES ARE NOT LIKE DREAM WORLD: THEY DO NOT NEED TO BE RELEASED, THEY ARE FINDABLE IN GAME ALREADY, ALL OF THEM)
Here is a brief overview at this pretty fuckin cool sea dragon:
Specially Defensive

Dragalge @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Sdef / 10 Spd
Calm Nature
Trait: Adaptabillity
- Sludge Wave / Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes / Toxic
- Protect
- Dragon Pulse / Other

Now, this sdef set is mainly made to well, take advantage of it's HUGE sdef, acess to tspikes, actually not bad at all dual STAB combined with it's hidden ability to make it quite a good wall who can set up tspikes and hit back, this thing sure can take special hits well, absorb/sponge scalds, and just be a great asset to many teams.

Other sets:
- LO Pivot
- Specs
- Mixed Wall
- Physically Defensive

Chesnaught

Chesnaught really seemed average when it's movepool was first leaked, but more and more as it's egg moves got revealed and it's BST was discovered, it really just got awesome.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, Chesnaught gets all taunt, spikes, spiky shield and hammer arm, yeah, this thing looks REALLY annoying to face, doesn't it?

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
Trait: Bulletproof
- Hammer Arm
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Spiky Shield

This thing is a pain to both stall and offense, offense is pained by this thing's immunity to various bomb and ball moves (like sludge bomb), access to s-shield and spikes, and annoying hard hitting hammer arm and random taunts stopping set up sweepers. Stall really hates this thing because it has all of taunt spikes and spiky shield and a 100 BP STAB moves, so yeah, stall kind of hates to have to face a healthy chesnaught, and offense lacking flying moves really is pained by this thing, have fun using it.

both of these things actually can be used together for a really cool defensive core, heh, nice, didn't notice that when I first made this.

 

[repulsion]

A few possibilities:

Metagross: Still not that great given the presence of Suicune, Slowbro, Swampert, Bronzong, bulky Zapdos and many other bulky switch-ins. It can run a good Agility late game sweeper set if its switch-ins are KO'd or sufficiently weakened, and set up Stealth Rock.

Jolteon: The weather nerf means using Thunder is not a great option, and Hidden Power is now only 60 BP. In UU it could function pretty well as a revenge killer/late game cleaner. Walled to hell and back by Snorlax, Porgyon2 and Umbreon, and checked by either Rhyperior/Swampert or Flygon depending on HP choice.

Donphan: A decent spinner option, switches in very easily to Rhyperior. Like Hitmontop and Blastoise it lacks recovery options and is Toxic bait against bulky Pokemon. Basically a return to DPP UU spinner options, with the unique ability to both SR and spin, and survive a hit with Sturdy to do either in a pinch.

Dugtrio: Same as it ever was, trapping any grounded Pokemon it can outspeed and kill. Now unable to do this to Ghosts but they weren't generally his targets anyway.

Toxicroak: May see a return to UU due to weather nerf and four moveslot syndrome. It has the movepool to take out typical Fighting-type switch-ins like Gligar (Ice Punch), any Psychic or Ghost-type (Sucker Punch) and Fairies (whatever Poison STAB it may use). Sort of like Honchkrow in that it doesn't need to worry as much about its bad speed because of Sucker Punch, but that can lead to it being predicted around.

 

[xSilentDeviL]

Are there any good users? Starmie can take on most ghosts so doesn't really remove rapid spin

Scizor, Skarmory, Lati@s, mew, gliscor, flygon, empoleon to name a few

 

[Kietharr]

It's pretty doubtful Goodra will fall to UU though, especially with the Assault Vest build making it tanky enough to tango with major threats in OU. Personally I think Dragalgae is a great candidate for a trick room sweeper, with adaptability draco meteor he has an amazing, one last 'fuck you' move to toss out before trick room ends as well. Or he can just throw them around and poke holes in any team without a fairy to absorb them.

 

[Upstart]

I have always had an affinity to UU and look forward to the changes that XY brings. However it is important to remember that BW UU has no relation to XY UU. Although there will be undoubtably similar trends, both exhibit different mechanics that will likely have deep ramifications for the UU metagame. Honestly people need to stop viewing pokemon in such a polarized fashion as a single mechanic change does not simply make a pokemon invalid. It is crucial to consider every aspect and interaction between pokemon. Some previous tactics may become invalid as new tactics develop. Both the pokemon and the player will adapt to the changes in order to optimize their chances of winning. Blanket statements blatantly ignore the intricacies of competitive pokemon and offer little in an argument.

Some Crucial Mechanic Changes

1. Defog now clears the field of all entry hazard
2. Weather lasts (5-8 turns)
3. Special Attacks received a nerf
4. New type Chart
5. Introduction of Megaevolutions
6. New Pokemon, abilities, moves and items

My Abbreviated Thoughts

• Defog will change hazard dynamics. Hazard stacking, Rapid Spinning, and spin blocking ARE NOT dead. Hazard setters will prefer durability to set hazards multiple times in a battle. Rapid spinning will still be crucial as to not remove your own spikes.
  • Defog being a gen 4 exclusive hinders a pokemon's ability to have dream world abilities and some later gen moves.
  • Fitting defog into some sets will prove difficult
  • Many defoggers are weak to stealth rocks
• With the nerf of weather, sun will be in returning to UU. This generation brings several weather setters which will carry with them a number of benefits. While at the same time centralizing your team around a single pokemon. Weather teams will have to abuse their turns very carefully as to not waste their timer. I currently believe that offensive weather will be similar to rain dance teams currently in Gen 5 UU with a little boost. Unfortunately defensive weather teams are stunted by the limited weather and probably will not transition too well into the uu metagame
• Several pokemon are in UU due to their lack of coverage or power. This gen dealt a heavy blow to some of UU's most feared powerhouses. Special Attackers will see a change in usage resulting in probably tier shifts. With hidden powers nerf some pokemon simply will lack the coverage to effectively sweep. Poor Lilligant
• UU will have plenty of dragons simply because so many dragons were introduced. Coupled with the introduction of fairy the fire and fighting dominated BW UU will be replaced by a fairy, steel, dragon XY UU.
• Due to the one mega per team, several megas will undoubtably fall to uu. I don't really have much to say about this without knowing what megas will be available in UU.

 

[Strykeypoo]

How about looking at things from the lower tiers that might be moving up?

Drapion

Poison Dark
Abilities: Battle Armour/Sniper/Keen Eye

HP: 70
Attack: 90
Defense: 110
Special Attack: 60
Special Defense: 75
Speed: 95

Notable Moves: Pursuit, Crunch, Poison Jab, Toxic Spikes, Swords Dance, Taunt, Earthquake, Whirlwind, Knock Off

With the base stats just short of Gliscor's, three pretty terrible abilities and (during fifth gen) terrible offensive coverage paired with no reliable recovery, Drapion was a SR weakness away from falling into NU. With the changes to Dark typing however, and the introduction of the Fairy type, suddenly Gliscor isn't walled by Steel types (as much) and finds its Poison STAB actually usable. Of all the bottom tiered pokemon, I think it's hard to find anything that appreciates the changes brought in 6th gen that didn't also receive a mega evolution. When you look at what Drapion has going for it in OU, being able to resist Gengar's dual STAB while also carrying enough physical bulk to survive an Azumarill's AQ and threaten both back with STAB SE moves are a considerable improvement.
Of course, this thing is still Drapion, so I don't think it'll meet the usage criteria to make it into OU proper, but it has enough going for it this gen to claw its way up to UU. What I'm wondering though is if anyone knows if Drapion has received anything new in 6th gen? That Dark type U-Turn would be a fantastic improvement on this guy.