Vital Spirit gives sleep immunity, but prevents Pokemon from using Rest. Early Bird gives a one-turn Rest, which could prove useful for bulky Pokemon and Rest-Talk sets.how about vital spirit > early bird?
Vital Spirit gives sleep immunity, but prevents Pokemon from using Rest. Early Bird gives a one-turn Rest, which could prove useful for bulky Pokemon and Rest-Talk sets.how about vital spirit > early bird?
Probably because it's canceled out by the other weathers, many of the abusers are weak to, or at least hit hard by water. and maybe even some of droughts abusers can put a dent in, or even kill sand. Crappy starter doesn't mean crappy weather :)How is Sand Stream not S-tier? Tyranitar has been one of the top 10 most used pokemon for THREE GENERATIONS, and Sand Stream has defined the metagame. And we've already banned TWO pokemon in this metagame alone simply from the effects of Sand Stream (Garchomp/Excadrill). Not to mention it cancels out two other S-tier abilities completely.
...Uh...hmm...I...Probably because it's canceled out by the other weathers, many of the abusers are weak, or at least hit hard by water. and maybe even some of droughts abusers can put a dent in, or even kill sand. Crappy starter doesn't mean crappy weather :)
I disagree with your assertion that grass types are strictly inferior to Fire and Water moves. There are LOTS of powerful grass type users in the metagame, and furthermore Sap Sipper also provides immunity to a large number of status moves, including the infamous Spore and Leech Seed. That's no small deal. Overgrow might be marginally worse than Blaze and Torrent because Grass isn't AS potent an offensive type, but it's not so much that it deserves to be a whole tier lower. Again, the reason we never discuss it is because the Pokemon that get it are so rarely offensive that it doesn't come up, unlike Blaze where all the fire type staters are offensively inclined.I will address all accumulated posts tomorrow at around 1:00 PM eastern time. I recognize that this list should be organized based on the merit of each individual ability and not the distribution. i tried to follow this schematic, which in part explains why i put wonder guard and pure power in S (although admittedly it takes no great imagination to figure out how badass these abilities are). however, i have made oversights and i will address them as soon as i can. Rattled is the major one (i thought it lowered speed by 1 stage, lol), but some of the abilities such as overgrow and sap sipper are rightly placed in my opinion because grass is simply inferior to fire attacks and water attacks and thus are less common and less useful. like i said, i will go into more depth tomorrow as to my opinions on the controversial cases. Also, for the sake of this Thread, i would like to focus on single battles, at least for now. i could have a parallel set for doubles after we straighten out the singles tier list, but before i address doubles, i would like to learn more about the metagame. finally, i may run polls on those abilities that people constantly disagree on in a couple weeks, if any still exist then. Thanks and keep up the excellent feedback
No I think F tier being for abilities that are completely useless and / or detrimental is better. We don't need a jillion tiers; the 6 we have is enough already. Also, just because an ability can be given to something else to hurt it doesn't make it any more tan F tier; I don't think we should be considering stuff like Entrainment in our tiering. I still think Sandstream deserves to be S tier; the only reason that not everything that has it is OU is because Tyranitar gets it and outclasses almost anything else that could get it. That's the Pokemon doing that, not the ability. I think that the effects permanent sandstorm has are too incredibly powerful to not be S tier. We simply forget this because Sand Stream has been around so much longer than the other weather changing abilities (in OU anyway) that we forget how potent it really is.I really have to agree with Voodoo Pimp on the basis that F Tier should only be strictly detrimental abilities; Color Change is a bit iffy, but it isn't entirely detrimental and can [sometimes?] be used as an advantage so I'd say E Tier there. Even Honey Gather should be E Tier, since I think all the Slakings out there would really prefer Honey Gather to Truant. Jimera0 has also made some very good suggestions to your list, most of which I agree with, although I don't think Sand Stream is S Tier, given the fact that there are few abusers at the moment, and it's usually used to insure a team against other weather, given how easily Tyranitar can fit on a team; not to mention Tyranitar was used primarily in Gens 3/4 because it was a great Pokemon, Sand Stream was just a neat bonus; the same is true with Hippowdon but to a lesser extent. Hail overall is probably a better ability than Sandstorm; it's just unlucky enough to have a lackluster starter, compared to Sand or Rain. I'd also consider moving Unaware to S Tier; Quagsire is by no means a great wall, but it's such a fantastic asset to teams and there have been a few teams to even peak #1 with it, all because of what a useful ability Unaware is. Quagsire is able to fill a unique and really great niche in the metagame because of this ability and it would hardly see the light of day otherwise.
Agreed, it's situational but it's not detrimental. I mean, if you didn't want to take advantage of it you can still wield an item. It's not totally useless either. It's just not something you'd use most of the time. D class would be my placement for it, since not being able to chose your own item is rather bad, even if you do get to steal an opponents item.I would say C, maybe D at the lowest. Pickpocket only works if you're not holding an item, and unless you're using Acrobatics, having an item is generally better than having no item, and taking your opponent's item is generally better than letting them keep it. Sure, it's a weak ability, but like I said above, F tier should be reserved for completely useless/detrimental abilities, neither of which fit Pickpocket.
Yes I'd rather have Moxie, but not by a great margin. I do agree Tinted Lens deserve A rank; it'd give you almost completely unresisted coverage for MOST attacking types, and dragon would get COMPLETELY unresisted coverage. That's pretty damn big (imagine Tinted Lens Haxorus. Now weep.)Why is Tinted Lens B ranked? You're telling me that you'd rather have Moxie than have your moves' power DOUBLED if resisted? That's perfect neutral coverage for Dragons and Great Fighting-type coverage. There is no way it belongs down there.
As I said before, the possibility of giving a bad ability to something else doesn't make it any less a bad ability and any less F tier. As for Stall being potentially useful for Volt-Turn... no, just no. A slow Volt-Turn is NOT worth always going last. Use a slow Pokemon with Volt-Turn instead. Sure you might outspeed things in Trick room but that's not common enough to make Stall seem useful. It's detrimental, hands down.Magic Guard is pretty much strictly better than Overcoat, though.
I'm agreeing with a few other users that the bottom tier should be for completely useless/detrimental abilities. Though, even stuff like Truant can be competitively useful - just look at Dream World Durant for an example, who can Entrain it onto other Pokémon then allow Shadow Taggers/Arena Trappers to set up. Even something like Stall could be used to ensure your U-Turn is slower than the enemy (you could imagine something very slow setting up Trick Room, then using U-Turn to a slow sweeper, and using Stall to ensure the U-Turn went second).
This is a competitive list, so in game performance doesn't matter worth a damn. Also, Smokescreen, Sand-Attack Kinesis and friends are NOT banned; EVASION moves are banned, not ACCURACY moves. No one uses them because they suck is all. That's why it's D tier; there are situations where you could POSSIBLY have it kick into effect, it just comes up very, very uncommonly. That's why it's D tier; it might be useful once in a blue moon, but it's usually as if it didn't have it.I wouldn't leave Keen Eye at D tier. It's not too bad in-game, but in this meta with accuracy-lowering moves like Sand Attack and Smokescreen banned, it becomes almost entirely useless. There are very few competitively-viable moves that lower accuracy- the closest you'll get is Muddy Water, but everything that can use it will almost always use Surf instead. Definitely needs to be moved down to F tier.
Yeah agreed, though I would like to point out as I usually do that Garchomp was not banned SOULY due to Sand Veil. Sand Veil was just the icing on the broken Garchomp cake. Anyway, that's not really important.How is Sand Stream not S-tier? Tyranitar has been one of the top 10 most used pokemon for THREE GENERATIONS, and Sand Stream has defined the metagame. And we've already banned TWO pokemon in this metagame alone simply from the effects of Sand Stream (Garchomp/Excadrill). Not to mention it cancels out two other S-tier abilities completely.
Normalize exists for the sole purpose of giving Delcatty a Normal-type Thunder Wave. It's not quite F tier.
@DetroitLOLcat's list
I'll point out which of his changes I disagree with here.
Contrary: I'm not sure, most Pokemon get attacking moves that lower stats when used, and the ability to raise your stats by attacking with a powerful move is ridiculously power. Hell, people can and HAVE used SPINDA successfully in OU because of Contrary. THAT speaks volumes about it's S tiered-ness. Even moves like Close Combat that'd only boost defensives are amazing with this ability; 120 BP move and Cosmic Power combined? Holy hell, yes please!
Adaptability: No, I think this is A tier. It makes some Pokemon, such as Basculin in the lower tiers and Porygon-Z. It's not comparable to Tinted Lens, which only affects the attack when it's resisted; Adaptability is active all the time. It might not be high A tier, but it's still A tier.
Flash Fire: Hell no! This ability is SO A tier. It MAKES Heatran, and other Pokemon that get it benefit greatly for it. Fire is a very potent and common attacking type so being immune to it is a huge boon. The sheer EXISTENCE of Sun makes any immunity to sun A tier, because otherwise stuff like Chandelure and Darmanitan would just run over absolutely everything.
Guts: No, it DOES make Pokemon, it's not just a nice add on. The fact that Flame/Toxic Orb sets exist for every Pokemon that gets it speaks volumes; that passive 1.5x attack boost for just being on the field is massive. I mean, look at Heracross. It can OHKO/2HKO EVERYTHING IN OU with SD + Toxic Orb. That's saying something.
Harvest: Already expressed my views on this; until the pinch berries get released, this ability is solidly B or C tier. There just aren't enough good berries to make this ability anything else at the moment.
Lightning Rod: Again, NO NO NO. Any ability that gives you an extra immunity is damn game changing. One that also gives you an attack boost? HELLA GAME CHANGING. It just isn't given to enough Pokemon that can really use it (LOL Seaking, special attackers like Manectric that already resist Electric anyway, Pokemon already immune to electric like Marowak and Rhyperior, meaning they don't get the attack boost.) Don't forget that Volt-Switch is a staple of our current metagame, and that Thunder Spam is very common in Rain. Definitely still A tier.
Magnet Pull: I'm somewhat torn between moving Magnet Pull to S tier or moving Arena Trap to A tier. They both are very potent abilities. I'm starting to learn towards S tier for both now, seeing as if it weren't for Magnet Pull Magnezone would probably be UU or RU. Obviously, Arena Trap MAKES Dugtrio. So yeah, S tier for both I think.
Sturdy: No, it's A tier. A free focus sash is a BIG deal even with hazards and stuff around. It prevents things from guaranteed sweeping you if you can keep hazards off, which in this meta is definitely game changing fairly frequently. And then there's the fact that it's reusable if you can heal back to full health. It might not be high A tier, but I still think it IS A tier.
Volt Absorb: See Lightning Rod. Electric type attacks ARE common in this meta, and Volt-Switch alone makes any Electric Immunity a godsend.
Air Lock: With so many potent weather abilities, I think this deserves B tier. It just needs to be given to Pokemon that can do something BACK to weather abusers and aren't in Ubers is all.
Cloud Nine: See Air Lock
Marvel Scale: Already made my case for this being A tier, in particular due to its effectiveness when paired with Rest (which everything gets remember).
Multitype: In my opinion Multitype really depends on whether there'd be a cue to show what type the Pokemon is that has it or not. With Arceus we have visual cues, but what about other pokemon that could get it? If you knew what type it was, it'd stay right here. But if you didn't... it could very well have a case for S-tier.
Rough Skin: Yeah this and Iron barbs being in different tiers makes no sense. They're the same damn ability basically. B tier for both of them.
Static: I dunno, random paralysis is pretty damn useful when it does happen. It might not be high B tier, but I think that if Flame body belongs here, so does Static.
Frisk: Actually I agree with low B tier. The instant scout is damn nice, it's just that crappy Pokemon get it. I missed this last night b/c I was tired out of my mind >.<
Hustle: Again, don't know why I didn't say anything before. It might come with a big drawback, but a passive 1.5x boost is too good for this to be C tier.
Ice Body: I dunno about this one, Hail isn't quite as good as other weather conditions, though it is somewhat of a borderline case. I wouldn't raise it a tier myself but I won't complain if it does get raised.
Illusion: More inclined to A tier it myself, since it is what makes Zoroark even worth considering. Hard to use though so I dunno, maybe B tier isn't bad for it. C tier is definitely a bad spot for it though.
Insomnia: Still thinking this is A tier. If something actually GOOD god it we'd all be packing Insomnia users, because shit like Breloom exists. Sleep is crippling as all hell; you can't imagine how many times I've wished for a sleep immunity on my team. If you can't stomach A tier, yeah I suppose B tier is ok. I mean, it is outclassed a bit by Poison heal I suppose.
Justified: I dunno, anything that gives you a free attack boost is pretty nice. Sure Dark type moves aren't that common in OU, but they are around. Hydreigon and Tyranitar both use them fairly frequently. So C tier is where I think this belongs.
Klutz: OK, now that people have pointed out its merits to me I can see why this isn't F tier. But still. D tier is better. Sure it has some situational use, but most of the time you're out of an item. Not a good thing.
Mummy: Already have detailed why this deserves B tier. Abilties are very potent this generation and the ability to deactivate them temporarily is pretty damn cool. If only it lasted for the whole battle, this ability would be solid A tier material.
Normalize: Wait, what IS Normalize. *looks it up* OH. Wow. Ok, that is pretty bad. It means you get no coverage. Even if it makes everything STAB for you, it still means YOU HAVE NO COVERAGE. Unless someone posts an actual use for this, I see no reason for this to not be F tier.
Poison Point: Yeah D tier probably is better now that you mention it. I mean, I usually actually LIKE getting normal poisoned because it grants you immunity to worse status conditions. It can be a little hampering, but overall, not a great ability.
Poison Touch: See Poison Point.
Pressure: Now that you mention it I agree, it's very potent on defensive Pokemon, especially considering the popularity of 5 PP (8 PP max) moves. Not always useful, hence not A tier, but more so than C tier I think.
Rain Dish: I'd argue for A tier, since 12.5% passive healing PLUS leftovers lets you recover 18.75% of your HP a turn without doing anything. That's a LOT of health, and makes sub-stalling absolutely deadly. How this amazing ability ended up C tier I don't know.
Rock head: Yeah I suppose I agree with this one. A lot of recoil moves are very powerful, so the ability to use them freely without drawbacks is a pretty big deal. B tier for sure.
Scrappy: How did I miss this my first time through? Yes, definitely B tier, as being able to hit Ghost Types through their immunities is a big deal. Now imagine it being given to a rapid spinner... damn, it's almost A tier.
Shield Dust: No I think C tier is good for this. Sure protection from Scald and Serene Grace users is nice, but it's quite situational and most of the time you'll hardly notice it's there. High C tier, but probably not more than that.
Sorry. What I mean was weak to water....Uh...hmm...I...
What?
So those are the changes. they will be mimicked in the OP momentarily. i am also thinking about the best way to set up a voting system so we can get a finalized list not so skewed by my biases. Keep up the good work and keep the opinions comingThread introduction
S ranked
Arena Trap- The reason I put this in S Tier over Magnet Pull is because it effects so many more pokemon than magnet pull. Arena Trap catches I'd estimate 80% of the pokemon in existence. On the other hand does catch the best defensive type in the game. However, arrena trap will trap everything Magnet Pull would trap with the exception of Bronzong and Skarmory, which isn't a huge bonus over Arena Trap. True, balloon can get annoying for arena trap, but not so much so that Arena Trap should go down to A Tier. Remember, Duggy is only used because of this ability.
Contrary
Drizzle
Drought
Huge Power
Imposter
Magic Mirror- The arguments have been made and I agree with them. Magic Mirror did make Xatu viable, and anything that can do that should go in S Tier
Moody
Prankster-Whimsicott and Sableye are both viable thanks to this ability. Sableye in particular shows just how useful this ability can be, in my opinion
Pure Power
Sand Stream- I initially put it in A Tier because I thought it wasn't as good as Drizzle or Drought. I still beleive that, but i have been convinced to beleive it is S Tier worthy.
Shadow Tag
Wonder Guard
A ranked
Adaptability
Chlorophyll
Download
Dry Skin
Flash fire
Flower gift- If Sand Power deserves A tier, So does Flower Gift. It is the better ability all around
Guts- I think it is useful enough to be in A Tier. it provides a huge disincentive for opponents to use status moves, and the status can even be self inflicted without much hastle. There is a debate on this ability though. i will leave it in A tier for now, but that may very well change in the near future.
Hydration-Forgot about Rest abuse
Intimidate
Iron barbs
Levitate
Lightningrod
Magic Guard- Probably the best A Tier ability, but I doubt it belongs in the same league as Magic Bounce and Pure Power
Magnet Pull-See Arena Trap. It is a great ability, but only works against some 25 pokes, while the other two trapping abilities work on a lot more.
Mold Breaker- Bringing up its two clones. I still think its A tier because of how many good abilities there are. I mean, this thing goes through wonderguard, so...
Motor Drive
Moxie
Multiscale
Natural Cure
Poison Heal
Quick feet
Regenerator
Sand Force
Sand Rush
Serene grace
Sheer force
Simple
Snow Warning- Hail has few abusers and therefore it is not S tier. the other weathers are because of their support characteristics, which Snow warning cannot match
Speed Boost
Storm Drain
Sturdy
Swift Swim
Technician
Terravolt-See Mold Breaker
Tinted Lens- I don't know what came over me when I put this in B Tier, but the damage has been fixed. almost never having to see"it's not very effective" sounds great to me.
Thick fat
Turboblaze-See MoldBreaker
Water absorb
Volt absorb
Unaware- Ignoring stat boosts is very useful. originally I was thinking about how it doesn't ignore choice band or specs, but then I thought about ferrothorn and other walls with unaware and I was convinced
B ranked
Air locked
Analytic
Bad Dreams
Clear Body
Cloud nine
Compound Eyes
Filter
Flame Body
Flare Boost
Harvest-Once the pinch berries are released, it will move back up to A Tier
Heatproof-A resistance isn't as good as an immunity. this is where it belongs
Illusion- Can be usefuly, but because it is so difficult to use effectively and requires capable pokemon to abuse it, it should stay in B Tier
Iron Barbs- Same as rough skin, so that was a slip up on my part
Leaf Guard
Marvel Scale-It is similar to guts, but since it was more defensively oriented, I placed it here. In this generation, the offense almost always trumps defense, and therefore guts is better. Also, since this is a defensive ability both poison and burn would hurt the pokemon wielding this more than it would help. Rest abuse is possible, but Hydration does it better. Good ability on the whole though. One of the best in B tier.
Multitype- If we know what type the pokemon is, then this is a B tier ability. If we Can't, then this has a one way ticket to S Tier. We can decide which one we would prefer for the sake of this tiering list.
Mummy- since there are so many good abilities, this will prove useful to a pokemon with a lesser ability. Not good enough for A tier thogh, because it can hurt your team too
No Guard- Some moves are godly with this thing, but most pokemon would rather have one of the Abilities currently placed in A tier and deal with an 85% accuracy fireblast IMO
instead of B tier.
Reckless
Rough Skin
Sand veil
Scrappy- It is here because it makes spin blocking impossible, which is useful. Before my logic was that it affected 1/17 types, but now i see the great implications of this ability
Sap Sipper-No one uses grass type coverage moves anymore, which is why this ability is a tier lower than the other immunity abilities. Really, the only time it will be used is when facing a grass type.
Shed skin
Skill Link- It requires a very specific moveset to be abused properly, and isn't as useful because of it. It works great for the moves it does help though
Solar Power
Solid Rock
Static
Victory star
White smoke
C ranked
Aftermath
Blaze
Cursed Body
Defiant
Effect Spore
Frisk
Hustle
Ice Body
Immunity
Infiltrater
Inner focus
Insomnia-There are very few pokemon that use sleep moves (mainly breloom and venesaur). Sleep is crippling, but this ability isn't gonna help you out as often as abilities in the previous tiers would
Iron Fists
Justified
Klutz
Limber
Liquid Ooze
Normalize
Pickpocket- Overestimated the potential. That is why I moved it down here
Poison point- Offensive teams, i believe could use this. Offensively oriented teams often don't worry too much about spreading status, so making an opponent lose 12.5% of their HP would be useful. That is why this is C Tier.
Poison Touch-see above
Pressure
Rain dish-it only recovers 1/16 health points, which isn't that great. i can see why some would believe that it is B Tier, but Not A
Rattled- misunderstood the ability and that is why it was misplaced. This I beleive should be its proper home
Rivalry
Rock Head
Shield Dust
Snow Cloak-Hail isn't as good as Sand, so Sand Veil will always see more usage and will always be more useful than snowveil
Steadfast
Sticky hold
Suction cups
Swarm
Synchronize
Torrent
Trace
Unburden- I think it is C tier because, from what i understand about the ability, it only boosts the speed once. once the user switches out, the boost is gone. if this is not the case, then I will happily move it up
Vital spirit
Water veil
Weak armor
Wonder skin
D ranked
Anger Point
Anticipation
Battle Armor
Big Pecks
Cute Charm
Damp- can be useful, but rarely
Early Bird
Forecast
Forewarn
Gluttony
Heavy Metal
Hyper Cutter
Keen Eye
Light Metal
Oblivious
Overcoat
Overgrow- Grass type attacks aren't as useful as the other three type attacks. that is why this is a Tier lower. The difference may not be very significant, but I feel it is significant enough to warrant a different Tier
Own Tempo
Pick up
Shell armor
Sniper
Soundproof- stopping perish song and roar can be useful on isolated occassions. other abilities are clearly better though.
Stench
Super luck
Tangled feet
Toxic boost
Unnerve
F ranked
Color Change
Defeatest
Friend Guard
Healer
Honey Gather
Illuminate
Minus
Plus
Run away
Slow start
Stall
Telepathy
Truant
Zen mode- Its hard to get a grip on this ability because it is hard to isolate it from darminitan. I put it here because i don't know where else to put it.
No, I don't think we should be including contrived uses like that. You have to really work to make it not hurt you, which just shows why it deserves to be F. It's still bad in most situations.I'm agreeing with a few other users that the bottom tier should be for completely useless/detrimental abilities. Though, even stuff like Truant can be competitively useful - just look at Dream World Durant for an example, who can Entrain it onto other Pokémon then allow Shadow Taggers/Arena Trappers to set up. Even something like Stall could be used to ensure your U-Turn is slower than the enemy (you could imagine something very slow setting up Trick Room, then using U-Turn to a slow sweeper, and using Stall to ensure the U-Turn went second).
It has no negative effect, and the positive effect is minor but still potentially useful. That's solid D tier.I wouldn't leave Keen Eye at D tier. It's not too bad in-game, but in this meta with accuracy-lowering moves like Sand Attack and Smokescreen banned, it becomes almost entirely useless. There are very few competitively-viable moves that lower accuracy- the closest you'll get is Muddy Water, but everything that can use it will almost always use Surf instead. Definitely needs to be moved down to F tier.
Offensive teams would much prefer paralysis over poison; the reduced speed and chance for full paralysis means it's much easier to set up and sweep. Regular poison takes time to inflict meaningful damage, and offensive teams don't aim to stick around waiting. Poison Point honestly has pretty much zero practical uses.Poison point - Offensive teams, i believe could use this. Offensively oriented teams often don't worry too much about spreading status, so making an opponent lose 12.5% of their HP would be useful. That is why this is C Tier.
I would put Flower Gift on the same level as Sand Force, honestly. It's obvious that Flower Gift gives a greater boost than Sand Force does, but it's important to notice that they only work in their respective weathers. Sand is a better weather than Sun is in every tier in the game where auto-weather is allowed with the possible exception of Ubers, so Sand Force will intrinsically have more application than any Sun abusing ability will have. For this reason, I would balance Flower Gift's superior boosts with Sand Force's applicability and stick them both in the B tier.I'm cool with a most of the changes but there are still a few that I feel don't belong where they are.
Flower Gift: True, it is better than Sand Force. But now that I think of it, I don't think Sand Force deserves A tier either. It only provides a small boost to two attacking types... that's not a lot. I think Flower Gift should be B tier, and maybe Sand Force should be as low as C. It just happens to be on a Pokemon that can use it really well; most Pokemon would have a hard time making meaningful use of it. B tier at most.
Sap Sipper: No no NO! It is A tier! Sure grass type attacks aren't as common but you're forgetting the plethora of potent grass type status moves there are out there. Leech Seed, Spore, Sleep Powder and Stun Spore are all very powerful, and being immune to them AND getting an attack boost is a big deal. There are a lot of common grass type attackers too, like Celebi, Virizon, Ferrothorn, anything that carries HP Grass, Rotom-C, Venusaur, Ninetails (energy ball and solarbeam are almost standard). It quite simply fits the definition too. ANYTHING benefits from it when it gets it, especially if its a physical attacker. It doesn't require you to tailor your sets or anything either. Clearly A rank.
Insomnia: It's not just Breloom and Venusaur. Politoed and Ninetails both frequently carry Hypnosis, and most grass types will run Sleep Powder. You'll occasionally see Hypnosis on things like Gengar as well. And let's not forget just how devastating Sleep is this generation. It might not be A tier, but B tier at the very least.
Rain Dish: Oops, thought it healed 1/8th, not 1/16th. Still, it's enough that it allows infinite Substitute + Protect stalling, a very potent ability when combined with damaging status. It might not be A tier, but B tier at least. You do need the right set to abuse it, but if you can abuse it, it adds a LOT of bulk to a Pokemon.
Also:
@Tetrinity
Yes they'd usually prefer paralysis, but when that's not an option poison is better than nothing for them. Think of it like Stealth Rock; it might not do much, but it's enough to turn 3HKOs into 2HKOs and the like, which is actually quite appreciated by offense. I can see the use now, so yeah C tier is good for it.
Yes it is only two attacking types, but those two attacking types happen to pair up perfectly together and are used as standard coverage for Pokemon throughout all tiers. A free 30% boost is nothing to scoff at either, so I would argue to keep it within the B tier based on EdgeQuake's great coverage.I'm cool with a most of the changes but there are still a few that I feel don't belong where they are.
Flower Gift: True, it is better than Sand Force. But now that I think of it, I don't think Sand Force deserves A tier either. It only provides a small boost to two attacking types... that's not a lot. I think Flower Gift should be B tier, and maybe Sand Force should be as low as C. It just happens to be on a Pokemon that can use it really well; most Pokemon would have a hard time making meaningful use of it. B tier at most.
You can build a strategy with Trace. It's not as easy as "throw Scizor in to counter half the metagame", but it is reliable enough to be a solid upper B rank ability. Why? Because you choose when to switch in. It's not like Colour Change with the opponent easily being able to work around it to his/her advantage. You have all the control.@ Detroitlolcat
@ twins
Your right, trace can copy marvel scale, levitate, water absorb, and even wonder guard. But then, in that case, why wouldn’t you just take marvel scale and wonder guard over trace if you had that option. In fact, most of the time, when you trace an A or S tier ability, your better off just having that ability to begin with instead of trace. When you have an ability that doesn’t constantly change, you can build a strategy to use that ability to its max. you can’t do that with trace. True, there are some choice Pokémon you can counter like heatran, but is it really worth it? The reason Porygon2 uses trace is because its offensive options are pretty bad. A glass cannon would prefer mold breaker over multiscale, but multiscale is almost certainly the better ability on the whole. I put trace in the C tire because if it traces a worthwhile ability from a Pokémon, it is better off just having that ability permanently. If a man wanted to fly, his best option is to buy a parachute and go sky diving, but he is still not a bird. That is why I put trace where it is.
On a side note how do we want to treat zen mode and multitype. we need to get this straightened out before we can truly rank either ability.
Now, he was specifically referring to Porygon2, but the strategies are still valid for other pokemon.On top of that Trace makes it a counter to a lot of other pokes. Nothing is more fun than switching your Porygon2 in a Poison Heal Gliscor that Toxics you on the switch. Depending on the rest of the opponent's remaning team this possible means a Porygon2 sweep. Or what about tracing a Multiscale? With Recover and parasupport that multiscale can be easily restored.
Other common funnies to trace:
- Flash Fire/Water Absorb/Volt Absorb/Storm Drain
- Natural Cure (got your duck statused but your opponent still has a starmie/celebi/chansey/blissey? Not to worry!)
- Magic Bounce
- Iron Barbs
- Intimidate (most pokemon that carry this are physical-oriented)
- Dry Skin
- Regenerator
- Chlorophyll
-...
And now I'll quote the B rank definition:A Tier- A Tier abilities are abilities that are great on their own merit, and don’t require specially tailored stat spreads or movepools to make them effective. These abilities can generally be slapped on any Pokémon and that Pokémon would be better for it.
Tell me now, which definition does Sap Sipper fit better? It doesn't matter if it's slightly less useful than the other immunity abilities remember; look at it in a vacuum.B Tier- Abilities that are good but not as good as A Tier abilities either because they require a more customized movepool and stat spread to be effective or are just flat out just not as great as A tier abilities
I'm thinking D. It's like Color Change in that it can be good or bad (usually bad) depending on context, but unlike Color Change it isn't in your opponent's control.As for normalize, I probably overrated it. where do you think I should move the ability D or F tier and why? i’ll make a decision after hearing all sides of the argument