Despite that rant about Venusaur on the first page, I still believe that, now, it should be OU. I've seen more Venusaurs than I have ever seen Aerodactyls or Donphans, I think they're about as numerous as Ludicolos or Umbreon, at least, if not more, by now. On top of that, they're powerful enough to hold their own in Standard, and many do, especially since they wall HP Grass Electrics (Most electrics) and other Grassers. I think it really ought to be reconsidered.
I just want to question Kangaskhan's status in UU. IMO, it's way too good. The Rest version can hit anything hard, while taking numerous hits itself. The few things that can take its hits can't do much back to Kangaskhan and are set-up fodder overrall. Nothing in UU should have its speed, power, and durability. With so few reliable countersand with its huge power, imo it should be booted to BL, at least to test it out. I've made this short and brief; I can explain more if people want (though I think most people are going to disagree with me).
I agree with you 100% on this. A couple of OU pokemon should be moved to Borderline/UU. Donphan, Claydol, Medicham, Dusclops and Weezing have lost a lot of popularity. While pokemon like Ninjask, Scizor and Houndoom have all gained in popularity.
I just want to question Kangaskhan's status in UU. IMO, it's way too good. Nothing in UU should have its speed, power, and durability. With so few reliable countersand with its huge power, imo it should be booted to BL, at least to test it out.
While everyone of those Pokemon get beaten by a bulky water, like Walrein or Blastoise, Kangaskhan can just oneturn-Rest the attacks off. Besides, that's just three Pokemon while Kangaskhan is still fast, has nice defenses and a good Atk stat.
Kingdra and Kangaskhan can not be compared, because Kangaskhan is one of the most used UU Pokemon while Kingdra struggles. There is no Skarmory for Kangaskhan in UU, but there is Blissey for Kingdra in OU. Kangaskhan also has a better STAB move for its metagame and better type coverage. So no, it's not the Kingdra of UU.
To be honest, a Resting Kangaskhan is quite hard to deal with in UU, because none of the physical walls can fully wall it (Rest/SB/normal move/EQ). You can't kill it with status, only Fighting attacks are SE against it and with that HP it can shrug off almost any non-boosted attack twice or thrice before Resting it off.
The problem is that Ursaring is BL and with its monstrous Atk and an awesome trait, it does sort of outclass Kangaskhan.
Kanga is a good UU pokemon, no doubt about it, but banning it is silly. It's not too hard to deal with, it's just good. Although Silver Shadow, I'm not sure why you compare it to
a) a useless NU bug/rock
b) a choicebird
c) a fighter
because its main job is to be a Normal with decent stats and movepool, and it serves that purpose well.
Some of what I'm going to say has been stated, but I'll say it anyway.
Don't even compare anything with Shuckle, which fucking sucks. Kangaskhan is a better pokemon by far and all-in-all, is more durable. You can't compare it to Fearow and Primeape. They have easy-to-find, good counters while you struggle to deal with Kangaskhan. Not to mention they die to Tackle while Kangaskhan can take abuse.
Decent? It's stats and movepool are amazing for UU and nothing should have what it has. The Kingdra comparison makes no sense, as well.
m0nkfish, I'll just say that imo, its stats and movepool does make it broken when it can kill almost anything while being quite hard to kill itself.
Also, Ursaring should be OU and not BL, but BLs don't affect Smogon UU so whatever.
Kangaskhan is no problem in UU. It has to stay where it is.
I actually took the time to read through this topic, and most of the posts are really fucking horrible. I mean come on, at one point someone suggested moving Raichu and Clefable to BL. Then 2 pages after that someone suggests Tentacruel to be moved from UU to OU and to demote Jynx from BL to UU. What the fuck are people like this thinking? Tentacruel is a decent UU pokemon, it's not even good or anything. Its just there. If Jynx, however, is moved to UU, it completely eats the whole metagame. It crushes the special walls in OU and beams everything in sight. these are only few examples and I'm not planning to go in-depth about this, but it sure is ridiculous.
People should think before they suggest something.
It's because some people don't understand that BL exists only to purge strong stuff from the UU scene... Tentacruel's usable in standard play, no doubt about that, but if it's not destroying UU, leave it there.
Oh, and when I played UU, I never had too much trouble with Kanghaskan. He's just the one that can do a good yet not great job at lots of stuff.
That's not what I came here for though... how about Forretress being bumped up to OU? There's certainly enough of them. And I agree Venusaur is on the rise.
Miltank is BL IMHO. I run one as a filler in my BL team, and that guy is amazing. It's basicly a replacement Blissey. I run one with Toxic, ST, Milk Drink, Heal Bell. It's stats are pretty darn good too, and and has managed to take out half of an OU team for me, and I wasn't even fighting a noob.
A sweeper with low speed and low HP is average? Not to mention its only decent defense is on its physical side, which isn't enough to ward of physical hits. It can barely switch in on anything except its resists/immunity, and after that it will probably have to deal with an oncoming bulky water with Toxic, or a grass type that completely screws it. Crawdaunt just barely plays decent in NU as it is.
Glalie has base 80 in every stat. That doesn't make it overly powerful, especially when you have to distribute EVs among stats. Not to mention it doesn't really have a dominating movepool to be considered "too strong for NU". Glalie is fine where it is.
Wailord isn't really a threat in UU. It has huge HP that's barely a variable given its horrible defenses. It has above average attacking stats and only the standard bulky water moves to use + Selfdestruct in XD. Walrein plays the bulky water game better, especially with Encore and Thick Fat at its disposal. Even Blastoise does better due to its utility advantage over it.
The only advantage that Whiscash has over Quagsire (unless you count Spark) is its HP. Not only is it outclassed in this way, but it's not hard to deal with in NU anyway.
Here are some of the more significant changes that I think should be mad, and I fully expect to be screamed at about my judgment on steelix. All of these changes are based on use first, and power second.
Pokemon/Should Be/Current Tier Donphan/BL/OU Never seen in OU, but too powerful for UU Moltres/BL/OU Never seen in OU, but too powerful for UU Lapras/BL/UU Never seen in OU, but is playable in UU without being overpowered Typhlosion/UU/BL never seen in OU, but is playable in UU without being overpowered Wailord/UU/NU Is occasionally seen in UU, I had one on my UU team for a while.
Tentacruel needs to stay in UU, it is good in UU, but not good/used enough for BL Hariyama/UU/BL Never seen in OU, and pretty weak in UU as well Flygon/BL/OU Outclassed by Salamence in every way, and almost never seen Venusaur/BL/OU Outclassed by Sceptile, and almost never seen Gardenvoir/BL/OU Never seen in OU because of Alakazam, but too powerful for UU Zangoose/UU/BL Abysmal in power, and rare in use
Whoever said that Scizor is UU needs to be shot, mauled by wild animals, and shot again. I played on UUstadium for a while, and scizor was legal. It fucking raped the UU metagame up the ass without mercy. Keep it in BL
Hmph. At least the tiers got cleared up in the Stark Mountain board. Whoever decided these tiers obviously never used any of the UU pokemon for any length of time. By base stats alone you should be able to tell that Crawdaunt and Glalie are much too powerful for NU, and you should especially be able to tell if you actually ever used one.
Apparently, whoever made those decisons does deserve to get "needs to be shot, mauled by wild animals, and shot again."
I use Donphan on my CB team. Kills Tyranitar and Metagross if predicted right. Venusaur is NOT outclassed by Sceptile, because they have totally different uses. Venusaur is a tank, Sceptile is mainly used for Subseed and Peteya Sweeping.