Amanda Todd: The Impact of Cyber Bullying

[kd24]

This is unrelated to an extent but deals with Cyber-Bullying. I have heard that this is becoming a common occurrence now among teenagers, and that is the "prank" of creating a Facebook account for a "(BAN ME PLEASE), enemy, bitch, etc." that you know in real life and who doesn't have one and then using that account to defame that person. This actually led to a suicide here in my town IIRC and I had thought maybe this was just the world's cruelest prank but still a one time thing. But, I hear about it more often when discussing forms of bullying for teacher education than I would think reasonable and I'm starting to think this is happening under many of our noses without anyone realizing it. Has this happened to anyone? Or have you witnessed this happen? This is literally one of the cruelest things I could think of happening to a kid and I have no idea what you could even do to identify that this might be happening or as a teacher, how to stop it. Being informed of the problem is one thing, but being able to stop it is something that apparently no one knows.

Not to go entirely off topic but I figure I would ask this here.

 

[meteor64]

I don't really know what else to say to you, you seem intent on believing that every single human being must be steadfast emotionally. What about things like depression? I'm guessing that's not a big deal for you because those people should just be able to "soldier on," right?

People are capable, and don't even try telling me they're not, cause I've seen it happen. You're making the hugely incorrect assumption I'm basing all my words off of nothing but opinion when I've seen multiple people go through exactly what you think is intolerable and suicide worthy -and worse- and come out fighting. Scarred for life, emotionally insecure, depressed, low self esteem- but not dead.

 

[Style_Dota]

This is unrelated to an extent but deals with Cyber-Bullying. I have heard that this is becoming a common occurrence now among teenagers, and that is the "prank" of creating a Facebook account for a "(BAN ME PLEASE), enemy, bitch, etc." that you know in real life and who doesn't have one and then using that account to defame that person. This actually led to a suicide here in my town IIRC and I had thought maybe this was just the world's cruelest prank but still a one time thing. But, I hear about it more often when discussing forms of bullying for teacher education than I would think reasonable and I'm starting to think this is happening under many of our noses without anyone realizing it. Has this happened to anyone? Or have you witnessed this happen? This is literally one of the cruelest things I could think of happening to a kid and I have no idea what you could even do to identify that this might be happening or as a teacher, how to stop it. Being informed of the problem is one thing, but being able to stop it is something that apparently no one knows.

Not to go entirely off topic but I figure I would ask this here.

This is relevant, don't worry :]

Yeah, this actually happened in my town as well. It actually happened after someone commited suicide for bullying. They made a facebook account with her name and the image a bus surrounded in a heart (she walked in front of a bus). It's really one of the cruelest and saddest things you can see, mainly because it's public.

 

[Stratos]

tried reading through this thread; achieved about two pages before i remembered why i hated humanity so sorry if what i'm posting is already said/disagrees with someone else

It's obviously a huge tragedy that this Amanda Todd girl died, and everyone is feeling terrible, but if i see one more person blame one more person i will flip a table

Everyone, hindsight is 20/20 and nobody expected it to come to this I GUARANTEE. Even the people who bullied Amanda; even the people who blackmailed her; even her parents; fuck, even Amanda herself. I can speak from personal experience when I say that it's basically impossible to conceptualize someone's death in a real way, and this often leads us to do stupid things without considering the consequences.

In May, a girl at my school committed suicide. When it happened, everyone was completely stunned. She was kind to everyone, and we couldn't think of anyone who'd bullied her. We couldn't believe it would happen!

of course, there were blatantly obvious warning signs. She'd been hospitalized the previous year for anorexia and attempted suicide, and she'd recently been through a rough patch in her life - in the same week, she'd had sex with her boyfriend (she and her parents were both strong Christians), broken up with him, and lost the class president election to a kid whose campaign letter included the phrase "I am a narcissistic, power-hungry sociopath." Fuck, at cross country practice one Friday I even remarked "wouldn't be too surprised if she committed suicide!!1!" which was met with a hearty round of laughter. But nobody thought it would actually happen, we all ignored the problem in the hopes it would go away, and for a few weeks, it did. until she was found dead of drug overdose on the tenth of May.

Obviously, as soon as the tragedy struck, we all felt like assholes. Every single one of us knew we could have done something, anything. talked to her, invited her over. We /knew/, we /knew/ that she was going through hard times, and we pushed her aside because we didn't actually think anything bad could happen. not here, not in severna park!

I remembered every unkind thing I'd ever said to her. I remembered the time I gloated with my friend about how he'd beat her in the class election, and I hadn't felt bad. I remembered the cross country practice where we all called her a slut for sleeping with her boyfriend after one month. I remembered /spreading/ the rumor that she'd slept with her boyfriend after one month. I remembered every day we shared in Stats class, walking to the hole punch that she sat right next to, and I remembered walking coldly by and saying nothing.

Nobody emphasis NOBODY knew this would happen. Me, her closest friends, her ex-boyfriend, her twin sister. Nobody.

enough people have already stated that Amanda Todd is not to blame for this tragedy, but I'll assert the more controversial statement that neither is anyone else. surely, there was malicious intent. Surely, they should have been more aware of the possible consequences of their actions. But I know the feeling of being the complete asshole who feels 110% remorse after it's gone too far, and if i see one more person calling them insincere, i will eat their faces off.

that wasn't fun to write, not to mention completely incoherent. ah well, that's why i usually dont post in these threads

 

[jumpluff]

~

Except for the fact that they persisted after knowing she attempted suicide, and in fact encouraged her to go through with it.

Yeah, did you miss that huge and important detail? If you treat people like that and don't realise it's hurtful, then you are more naïve than Amanda herself, who did a whole host of immature things. The difference between Amanda and the people who bullied her (and stalked her) is that in Amanda's case the things she did were silly but mostly (except for sleeping with a taken guy, which is pretty messed up but does not warrant what happened to her in the slightest -- and it takes two to fuck around) only harmful to herself, and it takes greater foresight to realise people are going to stab you in the back at that age than to realise if you beat someone up they're going to be hurt badly by it. Treating someone like that is terrible regardless of the consequences: suicide, depression, low self-esteem, dropping out of school, just having a cry, whatever happens.

ETA: In conclusion, nobody thinks what they will do will seriously cause someone's death, although there's a good case to be made in this situation since they knew she had already attempted to kill herself. But if they don't think what they will do will seriously cause someone to be depressed -- which leads to suicide -- then they're idiots.

 

[Stratos]

i find it nearly impossible to believe that the people who "encouraged her" actually for five seconds considered what that really meant - which was the whole point of my post, but obviously my thoughts were scattered so it would make sense for you to miss it. as i said, i myself said "lol she might suicide" without actually considering "jesus fuck she might /suicide/ and that means she's dead and like NOT HERE ANYMORE WHAT THE HELL"

 

[jumpluff]

i find it nearly impossible to believe that the people who "encouraged her" actually for five seconds considered what that really meant - which was the whole point of my post, but obviously my thoughts were scattered so it would make sense for you to miss it. as i said, i myself said "lol she might suicide" without actually considering "jesus fuck she might /suicide/ and that means she's dead and like NOT HERE ANYMORE WHAT THE HELL"

How can you not consider it? She drank bleach and they told her to do it again. Said they hoped she was dead, posted pics of bleach on her profile. They clearly understood the implications of drinking bleach. Maybe they didn't believe she would actually do it again but a) if you encourage someone to kill themselves it's a dick move no matter what and teenagers should honestly know better b) they're idiots for doubting her after she tried with that much deliberateness. Maybe the reality of suicide didn't hit them until she died, but I think that stupidity is far worse than the stupidity that leads you to do underage cam shows.

 

[elcheeso]

I love the fact that I predicted the kinds of responses this would result in. Wait, no I don't. Having a complete lack of empathy for people who make stupid ass mistakes is REAL COOL on the internet! No one cares if you kill yourself unless your suicide has the appropriate reasons, like being too good for this sinful world. She didn't have a REAL mental problem, everyone knows depression is just attention whoring and fake, as are suicidal tendencies as a major symptom of that. "I'm not blaming her, I'm just focusing solely on the shit she did and not bringing up the blackmailing and harassment because it's clearly her fault for everything."

Also, fuck you to whoever made that picture comparing Todd's and Gray's deaths. Yes, missing white woman syndrome is a thing in the media, and it's a huge disservice to the men and non-white, non-upper middle class women who are killed/raped/kidnapped and ignored by the media... BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEMONISE THE OTHER PERSON TO MAKE YOUR POINT! Jesus fucking christ what is wrong with people. Yes, Todd fucked up (not nearly as much as people say she did, btw), but you don't call someone a slut whore slutbag of sluttiness who deserved her death because she slept with one guy and cybered some dudes. Oh, what a slut, she had sex once in her life! Quick, I've gotta post a picture of child porn and say that her death is irrelevant because she's getting attention! Seriously, fuck that person.

ITT I learnt that words don't mean things and have no effect if the person speaking them is being mean. What a magical world we all live in.

 

[Age of Kings]

I am utterly shocked at not only the situation, but some of the posts in this thread. All teenagers make dumb mistakes. You did, I did, we all did because teenagers are mentally immature. This is why people under 18 are tried differently than adults in court, cannot vote or legally buy alcohol or cigarettes, and a whole bunch of other things that people take for granted. The term "minor" exists because we as a society from a cultural and legal standpoint do not expect them to have the same capacity as adults do. Shame on the people who expect her to compose herself like an adult when she was clearly not at that stage of life. She didn't deserve to die, and neither did those five kids at the neighboring public high school who were killed when they drove themselves into a ditch in a drunk driving accident despite all of the lectures and presentations in my school district aimed against it.

Point is, teenagers do not think very rationally about their decisions and their consequences regardless of whatever formal mental illness Amanda may or may not have had, so as another poster said, focus on the real criminals in this. Justice in court may not bring Amanda Todd back, but hopefully they make an example of the psychos who tormented her with hefty jail time.

 

[Byrne]

People are capable, and don't even try telling me they're not, cause I've seen it happen. You're making the hugely incorrect assumption I'm basing all my words off of nothing but opinion when I've seen multiple people go through exactly what you think is intolerable and suicide worthy -and worse- and come out fighting. Scarred for life, emotionally insecure, depressed, low self esteem- but not dead.

Your middle school education is what's hurting you here.

First thing you'll ever learn in any type of social science class in college:

ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE IS NOT RELIABLE AND NOT INDICATIVE OF WHAT IS REALLY TRUE OF A POPULATION.

Stop being a dickwad. Just because your buddies can get through depression doesn't everyone can. Depression is a SERIOUS MENTAL ILLNESS THAT CAN NOT BE EASILY OVERCOME. PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE WHAT MAKES PEOPLE WITH DEPRESSION EVEN MORE DEPRESSED.

 

[Thorns]

honest question, nobody flame me for this

how is cyber bullying any different from regular bullying other than the fact it's done on the internet

if anything, wouldn't that make it less bad because you can turn off your computer but you can't turn off school or going to work or whatever

 

[Stratos]

How can you not consider it? She drank bleach and they told her to do it again. Said they hoped she was dead, posted pics of bleach on her profile. They clearly understood the implications of drinking bleach. Maybe they didn't believe she would actually do it again but a) if you encourage someone to kill themselves it's a dick move no matter what and teenagers should honestly know better b) they're idiots for doubting her after she tried with that much deliberateness. Maybe the reality of suicide didn't hit them until she died, but I think that stupidity is far worse than the stupidity that leads you to do underage cam shows.

idk pluff, maybe it's a situation you don't understand until you've been in it. or maybe it's just me. when i was younger i was bullied to the point of contemplating suicide myself and even then i always saw it as a temporary measure; that when i was done being dead life would go back to normal and i would be alive again. as someone who's been on both sides of this fence, having been bullied to the point of depression and then being a douche to someone who did commit suicide, i can say that it's not solved by guilting the people who bullied her. my bullies, i am certain, never really considered the results of their coldness, just as i never considered the result of mine.

who knows, maybe it's just some idiosyncrasy of mine and nobody else feels this way :/ . but i know that the right way to handle this is not to say "what asshats that forced her to do this." the right way to do this is to teach people to be mindful of others and realize the very real consequences of their actions, and to think before they act.

 

[Age of Kings]

Because of the digital footprint, once it's on the internet you can't just remove it. Not necessarily just in this case, but you can't move away from the internet and start a new life. You can try to assume a new alias on a different site (for example) but things will catch up to you at some point. Anonymity also makes it more difficult to keep up with assailants.

Not saying bullying is any less bad, but that's my .02.

 

[Danmire]

honest question, nobody flame me for this

how is cyber bullying any different from regular bullying other than the fact it's done on the internet

if anything, wouldn't that make it less bad because you can turn off your computer but you can't turn off school or going to work or whatever

Well yeah you can turn off your computer, but what has happened, happened. It's still on there. It's permanent. It also really depends on the things you've done, which in Amanda's case, it's permanent to the ones who drove her to depression.

 

[Stratos]

i have never actually understood the need to distinguish between bullying on and off the internet. guess it's just another play toy for the people who like to make new words for every little thing :/

 

[jumpluff]

idk pluff, maybe it's a situation you don't understand until you've been in it.

I said I'd been bullied to the point of dropping out of school. I was severely depressed for seven years and attempted to kill myself. I'm happier now and grateful I failed, but it's not like I'm not speaking from raw personal experience here -- as well as just having enough good sense to know people die when they are killed. My cousin and uncle committed suicide and a kid in my school died in Year 10. Do we have to hold the Oppression Olympics?

I don't know what it's like to bully someone to suicide because I was never a bully, no.

who knows, maybe it's just some idiosyncrasy of mine and nobody else feels this way :/ . but i know that the right way to handle this is not to say "what asshats that forced her to do this." the right way to do this is to teach people to be mindful of others and realize the very real consequences of their actions, and to think before they act.

No, they need to realise they were pieces of shit -- it's the only way they'll become better people. They do realise and hopefully they will learn from this and treat other people better. I don't think anyone is arguing that kids need to be taught not to treat each other like shit, but there is only so much you can do and there has to be prevention at all levels. Cases like this show the reality of it.

Unlike most of the people criticising Amanda Todd, I don't think everyone should have perfect foresight, but I don't think it is unreasonable to believe that they knew what they were doing to her after she attempted suicide.

 

[Thorns]

 

[Stratos]

I said I'd been bullied to the point of dropping out of school. I was severely depressed for seven years and attempted to kill myself. I'm happier now and grateful I failed, but it's not like I'm not speaking from raw personal emotion here -- as well as just having enough good sense to know people die when they are killed.

well actually what i meant is the scenario of going "oh mother of asshole i just /let someone die/ which is really the greatest despair i have ever felt and as i said i did contemplate suicide.

No, they need to realise they were pieces of shit -- it's the only way they'll become better people. They do realise and hopefully they will learn from this and treat other people better. I don't think anyone is arguing that kids need to be taught not to treat each other like shit, but there is only so much you can do and there has to be prevention at all levels. Cases like this show the reality of it.

i guess there's actually less of a difference between us than there seems to be and it's just a case of bad wording on my part. i'm saying for all the people out there calling these kids inhumane and absolute monsters - i've been there (though not to this extent), and i hope nobody on smogon considers me a monster :/

 

[PK Gaming]

There exist two people: person A, who can lift 100 pounds, and person B, who can lift 500 pounds. Person A is given 200 pounds to lift, and person B is given 400 pounds to lift. Person B has been given more weight to handle than person A; yet, would it not be justified for person A to be unable to lift the lesser weight he is given?

There exist two people: person A, who can handle an unquantifiable amount of stress, and person B, who can handle another unquantifiable amount of stress that is certainly more than the amount person A can handle...

This point has already been iterated and reiterated, but I want to reiterate it again via a silly analogy, since people still insist on making comparisons without regarding the fact that people have different limits...

re-quoting because it's the best post in the thread that had the misfortunate of being posted at the bottom of the last page.

Still kind of baffling that people are giving this girl shit. The bottom line is, she committed suicide. Yeah she made some bad calls, but people make shitty decisions all of the time, and the end result was that she fucking committed suicide.

 

[jumpluff]

What they did was inhumane and monstrous, yes. I think you know that. I'm not saying they're terrible as people, so I think we do agree on that point, though I can't speak for others. I sincerely believe most of them will change as a result of this experience. Whenever you see the consequences of what you do to someone, you either become more apathetic to them or learn from it. It is absolutely pathetic it took her actually going through with it to make that happen, though, and I can't have as much sympathy for those who tormented her as Amanda herself.

They are learning this lesson at Amanda's expense. It never should've gotten to this point, and unlike most child suicide cases where it comes as a shock to most people, this was really telegraphed to every single person because of the public nature of her suicide attempt, so there's not much of an excuse.

 

[Zacchaeus]

a) if you encourage someone to kill themselves it's a dick move no matter what and teenagers should honestly know better b) they're idiots for doubting her after she tried with that much deliberateness.

A. is totally true but B. doesn't hold water when so many suicide "attempts" are really just cries for help instead of genuine efforts to die

I have heard that this is becoming a common occurrence now among teenagers, and that is the "prank" of creating a Facebook account for a "(BAN ME PLEASE), enemy, bitch, etc." that you know in real life and who doesn't have one and then using that account to defame that person.

This happened to me so my dad filed a police report considering that it's a felony in the state of Virginia. Then I

Well yeah you can turn off your computer, but what has happened, happened. It's still on there. It's permanent.

What happens IRL is permanent too, just saying (apart from the fact that a number of things can be removed from the public view of the internet contrary to popular belief)

Anonymity also makes it more difficult to keep up with assailants.

And anonymity makes it simple to avoid assailants online moved on with life

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I have a serious question: What exactly can be done about this?

I am a believer is pretty much total freedom of speech, I believe neo-nazis and the KKK have just the same rights to spout their nonsense as I do, being extremely left winged (social statist). But at the same time I am wondering what can we as a society do to prevent and stop this kind of thing, without infringing on freedom of speech. Being bullied myself in the past I feel like something should be done about this, but I am torn with freedom of speech. Are there any other solutions besides punishing people for what they say? I would be interested in any other solutions to this problem.

Also, if your against total freedom of speech, idk go make a thread about it, I don't mean to get this thread on a completely different topic.

 

[Style_Dota]

honest question, nobody flame me for this

how is cyber bullying any different from regular bullying other than the fact it's done on the internet

if anything, wouldn't that make it less bad because you can turn off your computer but you can't turn off school or going to work or whatever

That's actually not true. If it's on the internet, it's on there for life. Real life bullying is a lot easier to avoid or forget. But if there's something that exists that can never go away (digital footprint), it has much more of an everlasting effect.

Edit: and to answer the above post: It's incredibly hard for things to be done for this. Any laws passed could fall under first amendment issues (which honestly, the amendments are outdated). The best thing to do is simply to raise awareness that people's words can actually drive people to the point of extreme depression or at worst Suicide. It all falls on the people to see that they could "have blood on their hands" if they aid someone in killing themselves, since Suicide still falls under murder.

 

[Danmire]

@Zacch

I know it can happen in real life too. Also, like I said, it really depends on what you've done for the action to be removed or forgotten permanently. I guess it depends on the people too, if they care or not.

 

[kd24]

A. is totally true but B. doesn't hold water when so many suicide "attempts" are really just cries for help instead of genuine efforts to die


This happened to me so my dad filed a police report considering that it's a felony in the state of Virginia. Then I
What happens IRL is permanent too, just saying (apart from the fact that a number of things can be removed from the public view of the internet contrary to popular belief)


And anonymity makes it simple to avoid assailants online moved on with life

then I what? WHAT?