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Archeops (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Lamppost, May 22, 2011.

  1. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
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    [​IMG]


    PK Gaming agreed to let me take it over

    QC: PK Gaming, Iconic, Bloo
    GP: Zystral, NatGeo

    [Overview]

    <p>Generation V brought a lot of new offensively-oriented Pokemon into the game. In that bunch of Pokemon is Archeops. Archeops is gifted with a sky-high 140 Attack stat, and a well above average base 112 Special Attack. Couple that with a fast 110 base Speed, and you have one potent sweeper on your hands. Though Archeops was granted a gift from the heavens with those base stats, he was also cursed with an awful ability in Defeatist. This ability makes Archeops lose 50% of its attacking power if his HP goes to 50% or below; not to mention he has crippling weaknesses to almost all types of priority and Stealth Rock. There are plenty of ways to work around those weaknesses, though. Archeops can run sets from a physical sweeper to a special sweeper and even a mixed sweeper. If used correctly, Archeops can be a force to be reckoned with this generation.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Acrobatics
    move 1: Acrobatics
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hone Claws
    item: Flying Gem
    nature: Naive / Naughty
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    ivs: 30 Atk / 30 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is probably Archeops's most used set, and for a good reason. With a base 140 Attack, which unboosted reaches416 using a Naughty nature and max Attack EVs, nothing is going to want to take even a neutral hit from this guy, let alone a super effective hit. With a boosted attack in Acrobatics thanks to Flying Gem, Archeops is capable of 2HKOing even Ferrothorn, which is very impressive Stone Edge and Earthquake grant Archeops the infamous EdgeQuake combination, granting Archeops nearly perfect coverage, hitting the entire metagame for neutral damage, barring Bronzong, Breloom, and Virizion. The fourth moveslot is filled with Hidden Power Ice, as with its base 112 Special Attack stat, Archeops has a 100% chance of 2HKOing Gliscor. Naive is the preferred nature over Naughty because it allows you to speed tie with Pokemon like Latios and Gengar who share your 110 base Speed. If you go for a Naughty nature, you will have no chance of speed tying Latios or other base 110 Speed Pokemon, such as Gengar. The given EVs are essential to max out Archeops's Speed and Attack stats. This set gives Archeops a lot of raw power and is capable of ripping through many unprepared teams.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Since Archeops is weak to Stealth Rock, you absolutely need a Rapid Spinner on your team if you want to use Archeops to its maximum potential and avoid activation of Defeatist. Donphan is a very good teammate to Archeops because he can Rapid Spin Stealth Rock away, and covers the Rock-type weakness. If Archeops happens to drop below 50% health, you can just pass a Wish and Archeops will gain some, if not all of his HP back. Jirachi is a great Pokemon to pass Wish as it can resists Bullet Punch, one of Archeops's biggest weaknesses. Hidden Power Ice isn't going to do a lot of damage to Skarmory, so Magnezone is also a very good teammate for Archeops, trapping Skarmory with Magnet Pull and proceeding to KO him with Thunderbolt. Other Special Attackers such as Starmie, Reuniclus, and Heatran are also good partners to break through physical walls. This set works similarly to how Gliscor's Toxic Orb + Fling set operates except you don't have to waste a turn to Fling your item away to get the boost. You really have to be careful and make sure you don't take a lot of hits so your health doesn't drop below 50% and activate Defeatist.</p>

    [SET]

    name: Physical Sweeper
    move 1: Stone Edge
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Hone Claws
    item: Leftovers / Expert Belt
    nature: Naive / Naughty
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set works similarly to the Acrobatics set. Stone Edge is in the first slot because it is Archeops's main STAB move hitting many Pokemon Earthquake can't hit super effectively. Earthquake is in the second slot to hit Steel-, Poison-, and Fire-type Pokemon super effectively. The third slot on this set is dedicated to Hidden Power Ice to get past Gliscor who would otherwise wall this set into oblivion. Thanks to its base 140 Attack and base 110 Speed stats, Archeops can be a good user of Hone Claws, meriting the final moveslot, boosting Archeops's accuracy and Attack by one stage. The item choice is a tricky one; leftovers can keep you above the 50% health line more easily, while Expert Belt can give you an extra boost in super effective attacks</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Rapid Spin support should always be considered when building your team around Archeops due to his Stealth Rock weakness, Rapid Spin support is almost essential if you want to use him to his full potential. Donphan is a very good teammate to Archeops because he can Rapid Spin Stealth Rock away and covers the Rock-type weakness. Wish support is also very beneficial to Archeops from the likes of Jirachi, who resists Bullet Punch. Magnezone is also a very good teammate for Archeops, taking out Skarmory, who otherwise takes Archeops nicely. Any priority moves can beat this set pretty easily. Archeops is weak to Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet, both putting Archeops below 50% health, so watch out for those. Special Attackers are key to letting Archeops sweep because they can break through physical walls with ease, allowing Archeops to sweep. A Naive nature should be used if you are using your fourth slot for Hone Claws.</p>

    [OTHER OPTIONS]

    <p>Life Orb could be considered on both sets, but it can get you below 50% health very quickly. If Stealth Rock is on the field, you will only get 3 attacks in before you are below 50%, not accounting for any hits taken. Sitrus Berry could be considered as an option on the Physical Attacker set because once Archeops gets below 50% health, the Berry will activate and hopefully bring Archeops's HP above 50%. This can be risky, though, because odds are that if you are near 50%, the opposing Pokemon on the field will be able to KO you. A Naughty nature can also be considered on the first set if tying the base 110 Speed tier isn't very important to you and you want the extra power that a Naughty nature brings. You should use Naughty over Adamant if you are using Hidden Power Ice because an Adamant nature hinders your Special Attack. Crunch can be considered on both sets if you want to hit Ghost-types super effectively. Dragon Claw can also be considered to give you a reliable move to use against various Dragon-types such as Latios, Latias, and Haxorus, many of whom are outsped by Archeops.</p>

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]

    <p>The biggest problem that Archeops faces is priority. He is weak to Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet, and the main carriers of those moves are Scizor and Azumarill, who will both OHKO him with a Choice Band. Archeops is also weak to physically defensive Pokemon such as Skarmory and Bronzong. Archeops has virtually no way of breaking through these walls, so they will have to be dealt with by other means before attempting to use Archeops. Excadrill is also a check to Archeops, as it can easily oustpeed in the sand, and OHKO him with Rock Slide. Thundurus can also beat Archeops relatively easily, outspeeding and OHKOing Archeops with Thunderbolt. Archeops has a weakness to Stealth Rock, which combined with his ability, Defeatist, allows Archeops to switch in only two times if Stealth Rock is on the field before his ability is activated, making Archeops very frail indeed.</p>
  2. breh

    breh ⁰ ゝ⁰
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    Is this thing usable? I've had difficulty making it work in UU in the first place (it's too damn frail) and I can't imagine much difference in OU, where everything outspeeds it as well, unlike UU.

    I.E., Scizor OHKOes, Excadrill OHKOes (I think), Thundurus OHKOes. Even worse, it has the issue of Gliscor to deal with. After taking Acrobat, Gliscor doesn't give a damn about anything else Archeops can do. Ferrothorn just laughs at it and starts using Spikes and Skarmory does the same. If ferrothorn switches in on Acrobat and Archeops U-turns out, it cannot do the same again without putting itself in Defeatist.

    If its ability takes action, you're now using something with effective base 45 attack (aka Bidoof, Butterfree, and Onix, for comparison), assuming Jolly max attack.

    It cannot hold any item bar Flying Gem - Scarf/Band relies on an 80% accurate move as the main STAB (a miss from which will end in defeatist) and Leftovers also deprives you of Acrobat.

    To put the icing on the cake, Archeops is SR weak, which does not blend well with Defeatist.
  3. GtM

    GtM

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    Endeavour at least lets it hit stuff for good damage when its in Defeatist range, so that should probably get some mention. Archeops is a good user since it outspeeds most everything anyways.
  4. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Archeops is far from bad, it can hit really hard from both sides of the spectrum despite it's ability hindering it, it doesn't hinder it as much as Slaking and Regigigas. The best you can do are sweeper sets utilizing an Expert Belt. Choice items will make you switch out too much and it takes maximum 3 switches to get Defeatist to activate. Life Orb is almost unusable as the recoil will also activate Defeatist. It has Agility and Rock Polish which means that with proper timing, you could send its speed skyrocketing.

    name: Physical Sweeper
    move 1: Stone Edge
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Crunch
    move 4: Agility/Dragon Claw/Hone Claws
    item: Expert Belt
    nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
  5. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    all sets should run speed boosting nature. 110 base speed is such an important speed tier.

    also acrobling set?
    -item: flight jewel
    -acrobat
    -stone edge
    -filler
    -filler

    the first hit has a base power of 247 i believe, and gives you a nice stab boost.

    this actually is not a gimmick due to the sheer power it has, and the fact that you are not wasting a turn to make this work, unlike gliscor and fling.
  6. Majora_younglink

    Majora_younglink

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    I have to agree that Flying Gem and Acrobat actually work really well together. An example of the pure power it has is that a switched in Ferrothorn (any kind) is guaranteed a 2HKO by Acrobat if it switches in when Archeops goes for its initial Acrobat. It's pretty neat and something at least worth AC mention.
  7. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Flying Gem seems to has a lot of potential but I still find it gimmicky. You could use a Sitrus Berry with Acrobatics but your opponent has to get Archeops to 26% - 50% of it's HP to work properly (to not be hindered by Defeatist). Considering its low defences, it is incredibly gimmicky but still worth a mention.

    I find Adamant is preferred when running Agility but stick with a speed boosting nature in all other cases.
  8. GtM

    GtM

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    HP Ice might also be worth a mention, just for getting around Gliscor and Ground types that resist Stone Edge in general. Archeops certainly has the special attack to use it effectively.
  9. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
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    I also agree that Hidden Power Ice should be put somewhere. From my experience, Mienshao does a heft amount of damage with a Naive 0 SpA Hidden Power Ice, so Gliscor and some other Dragon-type should go down with prior damage.

    And seriously, add the Acrobat set. It was the QC standard for the last two Archeops analyses, and it's still evidently viable.
  10. FearZeCrawdaunt

    FearZeCrawdaunt

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    Absolutely add the acrobatics set. Acrobatics hits most of the metagame neutrally, and adds a 110 BP STAB to a pokemon boasting a 140 Atk stat. There's nothing you can't like about that.
  11. hyreforgling

    hyreforgling

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    I suppose my input wouldn't be taken extremely seriously since I'm a lurker with no posts on this site, but I might as well post a fairly successful Acrobatics set I run on Archeops:

    Archeops @ Flying Gem
    -Acrobatics
    -Stone Edge
    -Earthquake
    -Hone Claws
    Jolly Nature
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    Obviously, you have Acrobatics + Flying Gem. With no item (from having used the gem before calculation), STAB and the gem, the BP is boosted up to 247, and in combination with Archeops' beastly Attack stat, you can pretty much OHKO or at least take a decent chunk out of anything that doesn't resist it or is a dedicated wall. Even after using up the gem, you still get a great 165 BP (including STAB) out of Acrobatics.
    Stone Edge is there for coverage and cool STAB, and the annoying 80% accuracy can be disregarded after a Hone Claws. Earthquake for extra coverage and rounding off that neat EdgeQuake. Flying/Rock/Ground gets you super effective damage on 10 of the 17 types.
    Hone Claws is an attack boost, which is always nice, and fixes the accuracy of Stone Edge as mentioned earlier. Also, there isn't anything better you can put in the final slot (at least in any circumstance I've come across). If someone switches out into, say, Ferrothorn, the boosted Acrobatics will take out over 50% of their HP. Unless it's packing Gyro Ball or Power Whip, you can safely boost your Attack and finish it off the next turn.

    I suppose you could run Agility/Rock Polish over Hone Claws if you really wanted to, and then put Adamant on instead of Jolly, but I prefer the power boost more than the speed increase (though I guess at +2 Speed you'd be able to outrun Excadrill in the sand, I think). Boosting your offense is more helpful when up against a stall-wall that uses Protect like Toxic Heal Gliscor, and most Gliscors I run into don't seem to have Ice Fang or Stone Edge. Also while 110 base Speed is relatively high, if you don't run Jolly, you run the risk of being outsped by other Jolly/Timid Pokemon with a base Speed over 100.
    One thing I feel like I should mention is that there is absolutely no reason to use Crunch or Dragon Claw. Having only 80 base power and being completely incapable of being 4x effective (there's no such thing as a Ghost/Psychic or a Dragon/Dragon), the highest BP they can achieve is 160, which is less than a neutral Acrobatics. All types that resist Flying are SE'd by Ground as well (Electric, Rock, Steel). The only case I can think of where Crunch would have any application is against a normal Rotom, Dragon Claw is literally useless.

    And, finally, even though you've probably already figured it out yourself, never put the last 4 EVs in HP. With its 0 EV'd HP of 291, it is capable of taking two Stealth Rock hits while remaining above half HP, as opposed to if you had 292 HP.

    So yeah. That was a bit of a wall of text for my first post here.
  12. V4Victini

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    That is the exact moveset I use but I think the gem is taken into account the first time has a held item.
  13. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Now that I think about it, the following should be the only 2 sets.

    name: Physical Sweeper
    move 1: Stone Edge
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Crunch
    move 4: Agility/Dragon Claw/Hone Claws
    item: Expert Belt
    nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    Typical physical sweeper that you already have up there. Mention to only use an Adamant nature if using Agility. You could use Hone Claws but it's risky.

    name: Acrobatics
    move 1: Acrobatics
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Hidden Power ice
    item: Flying Gem
    nature: Naive
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def

    The Acrobatics mixed set. Read the other posts for more information on it. As for a mixed set in general, I think it's best to pass as this is the best you can get. For Hidden Power ice, you need 30 speed IVs (and 31 in the rest) which brings your speed to 349 (I'm not sure if this is a bad thing or not).

    Ferrothorn would likely seem to be a big threat to both sets so do mention Magnezone as a partner.
  14. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    for hp ice you don't exactly need 30 spe ivs, you can run 30 atk / 30 def.
    also crunch is practically useless. what does it hit harder than acrobat? hp ice is so much more useful to kill gliscor who is a complete son of a biotch

    also that stritus berry acrobat idea might actually work with the agility set for a stronger more reliable stab once the berry is used, and having a chance to not have defeatist ruining you.

    also mention spinner and wish support. with a weakness to rocks switching in is already a pain, but with wish support he would actually be extremely useful
  15. hyreforgling

    hyreforgling

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    PO and damage calculator say otherwise. I can't confirm for in-game though, but I'm pretty sure it'd be the same.

    If you're running an Expert Belt, yeah, Crunch and Dragon Claw provide extra coverage and are powered up by the Belt, but we're talking about STAB Acrobatics with a Flying Gem here.

    Also here's some damage calculations:
    252 Atk Flying Gem Archeops Acrobatics vs 252 HP/252 Def Ferrothorn: 48.01% - 57.1%

    That is Jolly Archeops against max HP/Def Impish Ferrothorn (which I'm pretty sure you never see). If we try the spread given in this Ferrothorn analysis you get this:
    252 Atk Flying Gem Archeops Acrobatics vs 252 HP/48 Def Ferrothorn: 56.25% - 66.48%

    If you use Hone Claws before or after, that's a clean 2HKO. If you run Adamant over Jolly, you don't even need a +1 boost to 2HKO:
    252 Atk Flying Gem Archeops Acrobatics vs 252 HP/48 Def Ferrothorn: 61.65% - 72.73%
    252 Atk Archeops Acrobatics vs 252 HP/48 Def Ferrothorn: 40.91% - 48.58%

    Sitrus Berry + Acrobatics relies on you falling between the range of 26-50% HP, which is fairly unlikely to happen with Archeops' subpar defenses. It's nowhere near as effective as using a Flying Gem, I have tried it before. (But I suppose you could still try it if you really wanted to.)
  16. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Whoops, forgot about those facts (changed my post accordingly).
  17. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    you need a dex link
    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/567.shtml


    yes sitrius berry is not the best idea, but it is still somewhat usable.

    what coverage do crunch and dragon claw actually bring that stone edge, acrobat, and eq/hp ice do not hit? i cant personally think of anything important
  18. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
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    ok guys thanks for the suggestions!

    i finished it, feel free to suggest anything i missed and stuff like that, also ready for qc checks.
  19. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    you didnt mention wish support, which imo i believe is completely important
  20. EricaHartmann

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    You mention that EdgeQuake provides near perfect coverage barring Bronzong and Virizon, however Breloom and Flygon both resist Ground and Rock. Claydol and Torterra do as well but you won't see them in OU often.
  21. PlatinumDude

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    Why do the sets carrying HP Ice have Jolly/Adamant? Those natures take away from Archeops' Special Attack. If you choose to run HP Ice, you can opt for Naughty or Naive and put the last 4 EVs into Special Attack.

    Also, does a Jolly/Adamant Archeops using HP Ice still do a lot to Gliscor?
  22. AccidentalGreed

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    It's definitely better to run Hidden Power Ice using a Naive nature, as the defensive boost isn't really useful on something as demanding as Archeops. Though with 0 SpA EVs, Archeops needs some prior damage to OHKO Gliscor. Here's some calculations:

    0 SpA Naive Archeops Hidden Power Ice vs 252 HP Gliscor: 80.2% - 94.9%
    0 SpA Jolly Archeops Hidden Power Ice vs 252 HP Gliscor: 71.2% - 84.7%

    Special Attack EVs really aren't necessary since Hidden Power Ice already takes a hefty chunk out of Gliscor, and the appropriate combination of moves should take it out (i.e. Acrobatics or Stone Edge). I did some calculations, and found that in order for Archeops to OHKO at all, significant EV investment is required (64 SpA EVs w/ Naive nature required for 84.7% - 100.6% damage).
  23. Wobb

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  24. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
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    k thanks guys, added all that stuff. I also added a checks and counters section since i fergot about it
  25. hyreforgling

    hyreforgling

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    No, not both sets. Crunch and Dragon Claw are not viable on an Acrobatics set for reasons I have stated twice already.

    Except the set doesn't say to use an Adamant nature. And it probably should (Adamant / Jolly), because the lost Special Attack is of (almost) no concern as shown by AccidentalGreed's Gliscor damage calculations, and there isn't anything else you would be using HP Ice against for it to matter anywhere else. You could try mentioning Naive / Lonely as an extra option if you want to try getting lucky with a OHKO after Stealth Rock damage, but most people will probably only be switching in as a counter anyway.
    Also, isn't HP Ice really only for Gliscor? If your opponent doesn't use Gliscor then it's just a waste of a move slot. You should probably slash Agility and Hone Claws next to it because those moves are still useful on the Acrobatics set, even if Gliscor is extremely common (but it can't be that common, can it?). Agility allows you to outspeed Excadrill and scarfers, and Hone Claws boosts the accuracy of Stone Edge as well as increasing your Attack.

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