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Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Fireburn, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    You are joking right? All of those are bulky (except Deoxys) Groudon is one of the most physically bulky Pokemon in Ubers, same for Kyogre being soecially defensive, Palkia is also decently bulky, and Arceus has the most balanced defensive stats, only short of the most bulky Pokemon, Giratina, by 30 base defense and special defense
  2. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Yes, but few of them function as a pivot for an offensive team.
    Trainer Au likes this.
  3. daHsu

    daHsu

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    Sorry if you misunderstood; I didn't mean my pokemon weren't statwise bulky, but I meant my spreads weren't bulky. I.E. My groudon is 2HKO'd by plenty of things because I'm not investing in defense. As someone who's "main tier" is ubers, you should know that anything that doesn't run a bulky spread is easily wrecked (especially palkia... by uber standards it's not very bulky at all ;) ). I'm asking for something to run a bulkyish set in the sixth slot, without sacrificing the power of the above 5 pokemon by changing their EV's.
  4. Little Hulk

    Little Hulk

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    Hi, I'm new here. I'd like to ask a question about a move on my choice banded Ho-Oh. It has sleep talk, equake, sacred fire and bbird. I hardly use equake, it's mostly there for filler so the set has 4 complete moves. However, I was wondering if maybe I should take off equake and use only 3 moves so that when I absorb sleep, I can hit bbird and sacred fire more frequently? So in short, keep equake, replace, or forgo it for 3 moves? thanks.
  5. Sweep

    Sweep (makeup)
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    Very good question, I'd keep earthquake to nail Omastar, rain Dialga, Heatran, and other important threats, and it still hits Darkrai hard even while asleep. 3 attacks Ho-Oh is perfectly viable with Sleep Talk however :D.
    Little Hulk likes this.
  6. Haruno

    Haruno jiggle jiggle
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    If dialga/omastar/heatran aren't that problematic to your team then it's perfectly viable to just go BB/SF as your only attacking moves. Though in most cases this isn't true, it's nice to keep that option open.
    Little Hulk likes this.
  7. superstar

    superstar

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    Deo-S/Groudon/Kyogre/Arceus/Palkia. I'm going to assume that you run Double Dance, ScarfOgre, Ekiller, and Lustrous Palkia? If so then Giratina-O would be an excellent addtion to the team. It protects your hazards, maintains your momentum, and gives you a great Extremekiller check as well as stopping things such as Terrakion that will otherwise do a number on you. I'd recommend the Physically Defensive set with 252 Atk/252 Def Adamant (plus a bit of speed creep I guess), and a moveset of Will-O-Wisp, Dragon Tail, Shadow Sneak, and Outrage. You could also go for a mixed attacker set with maximum Atk and SpAtk using Draco Meteor/Outrage/Shadow Sneak/Hidden Power Fire or Earthquake.

    If you're using Ghost Arceus, a Dialga could be used instead of Gira-O
  8. fleurdyleurse

    fleurdyleurse goodbye
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    Is it OK to name Ghostceus Arceus-Dark?
  9. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    daHsu, Maybe I actually know what i'm talking about and took you for a new player, I do play on the ladder sometimes if that explains. And for the record I was talking stat wise
  10. MrEon

    MrEon

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    Maybe not. Try Arceus-Poison though, if you want to bluff.
  11. Little Hulk

    Little Hulk

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    Honestly ghosceus and darkceus look nothing alike colorwise. Darkceus is much much darker (obviously) and you'd probably only catch a few very bad players off guard in the very first few battles when ratings are 1500 and lower (showdown not po). not to mention, on showdown good players will read the battle logs as the battle is happening so they will see the real arceus type in parentheses every time. Its very gimmicky at best to try to bluff arceus types. However, if you want to test your luck try what MrEon said, or make arceus shiny and compare to other plate colors. Good luck!
  12. Faint

    Faint Valar morghulis
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    Is it okay? Yes. Is it practical? No. Any competent player knows the color palettes of Arceus forms, not to mention simply highlighting over an Arceus in battle will reveal it's typing.
    rileydelete, Furai and Sweep like this.
  13. daHsu

    daHsu

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    Thanks you so much! I never imagined Giratina-O making my team, but now you mention it it's incredible... I used to use Cloyster, which could wreck hard, but simply wasn't consistent enough.
  14. Shiruba

    Shiruba

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    Is there anything that Lugia can do where it's not shitty or outclassed? A good bro of mine's a big fan of Lugia, so I'm trying to make it work, but I'm aware that it's a little meh, so it'd be a big help. Also, what kind of support would it require or really like, barring the obvious Rapid Spin?
  15. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    Lugia works best as a general wall on a balance team, because it cannot perform many roles effectively on a stall team (there are usually better walls for specific threats, it cannot spinblock, it cannot handle status, relies on the absence of SR which is hard for stall to guarantee, etc). Also, as opposed to the awful subtoxic set which loses to spinners, is very independent (as opposed to supporting the team) and is frankly not that hard to defeat, a set of Roost + Thunder Wave + Toxic + Whirlwind should be effective on a balance team. Yes, it loses to Taunt, but Taunt is rare and Lugia has no business staying in on most Taunt users anyways (it really is just set up bait for Skarmory, Heatran, Gliscor, Deoxys-S, etc regardless of its set). Whirlwind allows it to beat Subsitute users, which tend to be very troublesome otherwise (and its Dragon Tail is too weak to break most substitutes). Thunder Wave is a superb support move for a balance team with a slow, devastating wallbreaker (Specs Kyogre, Life Orb/Choice Band Ho-Oh, and the likes), since these just run through teams once faster threats have been paralyzed. It also really disrupts especially hyper offensive teams, as they often have frail Pokemon that use speed and power as their principal line of defense. Paralysis also makes it easier for Lugia to wall threats, as it allows it to Roost before being attacked, often allowing it to restore Multiscale and thereby shrugging off almost any attack with ease. Toxic is of course for slower, bulkier Pokemon that are unperturbed by the speed loss of paralysis.
    rileydelete likes this.
  16. Edgar

    Edgar
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    Using Lugia in this Hyper Offense metagame is kind of hard since there's a lot of Darkrai + Ghosteus offensive cores roaming around. But it can always do work if you have a good spinner.
  17. puregenius

    puregenius

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    If there's one thing lugia does well better than everything else, it's checking rayquaza especially if multiscale is up. Well lugia isn't great, but if you're keen on using him I'd pair it with spdef kyogre with rest/sleep talk/scald/roar. Common stuff that beats lugia include kyurem w, darkrai and ghostceus, all of which can be checked by this ogre set. Obviously this just aggravates your electric weakness, so you'd definitely need something to take zekrom. Groundceus, gliscor, lando t and groudon all work nicely, but only groundceus can switch in to mixed zekrom. That said, gliscor can still stall it out with sub protect toxic heal. If you plan on running stall, groundceus is nice as a win con with perish song. Alternatively on balance, groundceus can take out annoying steels like dia with it's sd/cm set. Groudon on the other-hand is the only ground listed that beats kabutops which can deal huge to the core.

    Other things you want:

    Bringing a kyogre stop is definitely a good idea. Kyogre can be dealt with, provided you predict perfectly, but that's a risky game considering mispredicting can cause a key component of your core to take heavy damage/die.

    Hazards. Vital on any team, but particularly on teams where you have a lot of phazing going on. T spikes is nice especially if you opt for a set without toxic.

    A spinblocker. For your hazards. Gira a stops annoying stuff like kabutops and can check ekiller, gira o is nice vs other stall teams and it can still check tops, although not as well, and check excadril and ghostceus is always an option as a late game sweeper if you plan on running semi stall/balance, or you could just run a plain support set, which can limit hazards much better than the other blockers due to its access to flamethrower/fire blast.

    A spinner. Should be obvious. A lot of them set hazards too, which is nice. Lugia is epic spike/spin bait, so bouncers like xatu work, but a) you'd be type stacking and b) switching xatu in gives them an opportunity to spin away your hazards. You'd also have to spend an extra team slot on a hazard setter if you opt for a bouncer. Spinners on the other hand won't always get their spin off, and kyogre + lugia both appreciate switching in with no hazards, especially kyogre who has to rely on rest for recovery. Pick your poison I guess.
  18. MrEon

    MrEon

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    Why exactly is ExtremeSpeed Ghostceus hated so much? The ability to get past Darkrai and other Scarfers seems pretty big to me :/
  19. rileydelete

    rileydelete

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    It's not "Hated" so to speak, it's just generally seen as inferior to Ekiller as an Espeed Abuser (heck even Rayquaza can abuse Espeed better). It's also seen as inferior to CM Ghostceus as an offensive Ghostceus.

    Swords Dance Ghostceus is still a powerful Pokemon-particularly if it uses Shadow Force, and will probably be even better in gen 6. However, if you wish to purely abuse Extremespeed, I, along with many other Ubers players, believe that there are better options.

    If there's anything else I can help you with, feel free to ask :)
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  20. MrEon

    MrEon

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    Thanks for the reply :) I was actually planning to build some kind of a physically based HO team, and just waiting for X/Y to come out. Ghostceus caught my eye as a starting point due to the recent buff to its Ghost STAB, so I asked the above question.
    On a similar note, can you name some good physical setup-sweepers? I have thought of SD Arceus (Ghost?), SD Ray, maybe Groudon, anything else?
  21. rileydelete

    rileydelete

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    Oh, sure thing :)

    The elephant in the room is E-Killer, but many, many, other Arceus forms have great Swords Dance sets, including Waterceus (with Waterfall), and Groundceus/Rockceus with Earthquake + Stone Edge. SD Dragonceus with Outrage also deserves a shout out.

    Outside or Arceus, you have Rock Polish/Swords Dance/Double Dance Groudon which can wreak teams if given support. Landorus-I is actually in a similar position, but has less bulk in exchange for higher base speed. Excadrill, Kabutops, and Blaziken are all monsters after a Swords Dance in their respective weathers (Sand, Rain, and Sun).

    Swords Dance Rayquaza is solid in any weather, but its frailty hurts it.

    Now if you want to go more "out there" and try Pokemon sets that are used less commonly on the ladder, there are a few I personally enjoy using:
    -Bulk Up Dialga. NO ONE expects this thing, and it can just take so many hits. RestTalk + Bulk Up + Dragon Claw/Outrage will work awesomely if you switch it in at the right time. If you like Hazards, you can give it Dragon Tail and just phase to your hearts content (watch out for faster phasers like Lugia though).
    -Hone Claws/Tail Wind Zekrom are both cool in terms of how they can help a team. Tailwind Zekrom gets a particular mention in that it supports an entire team for a good 2-3 turns, yet can obliterate things with its increased speed.
    -Flame Charge/Tailwind Ho-Oh are really cool as well. Tailwind Ho-Oh is a beastly team supporter and attacker. Pair it with SD Groudon, and you have one scary duo.
    -CLOYSTER, this thing is amazing in the current metagame, and can function well as both offensive support, and/or a monster of a set up sweeper. Shell Smash is your main tool, and after a boost, there's few things that can withstand a 5-hit STAB Icicle Spear.

    These are the main Pokemon that I can immediately think of when considering powerful, physical set up sweepers. Feel free to ask away if you have further questions :)
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  22. MagikaripIsOP

    MagikaripIsOP

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    What would happen if there was a 1500 bst pokemon with a 200 power stab move?
  23. Talpr0ne

    Talpr0ne

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    Is this even a serious question? :/
  24. MagikaripIsOP

    MagikaripIsOP

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    I just wanted to know what the Ubers team would do if a undeniably op pokemon was made
  25. Steeljackal<3

    Steeljackal<3

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    Smogon would ban it to the hypothetical tier above Ubers. Kind of an irrelevant question, though, as GF would never do something that stupid.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013

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