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Ask an Uber Question, Get an Uber Answer (Read FAQs in First Post Before Asking)

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Fireburn, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. Haruno

    Haruno jiggle jiggle
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    I agree, though sadly with the ubers subforum seeing awful activity as of late I wouldn't really advise it. Sableye/mandibuzz was a fun research though
  2. rileydelete

    rileydelete

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    Yeah, I agree that there's been quite a bit of inactivity lately. That makes me think of another question:

    What happened to the Ubers Potato Award?

    Have we seriously removed the place where we can show off great posters/contributors? I'm no Ubers genius, and I know my posts pale in comparison to others, but still, there should be another recipient or something. Maybe someone in the viability thread could get it. There's many, many awesome posts in that thread, and the posters should get some recognition.

    Honestly, I'm slightly afraid to post questions like this. When I post things in this sub forum, I always expect to be hit with statements similar to "No, bad idea.", or "You don't know what you're talking about".

    I just want the Ubers community to improve. :(
  3. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    Salamence already proved to be a really good late game cleaner with the scarf and moxie, don't try to do anything else with him since Ray'll do better. The double dragon DPP style could've worked if not for Genesect and Arceus.
    Hack likes this.
  4. pokeperson12

    pokeperson12

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    Salamence is beast dragon dance +moxie =badass
    PROBLEMS and Faint like this.
  5. Haruno

    Haruno jiggle jiggle
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    What does dark pulse hit harder than foul play with LO darkrai?
  6. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
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  7. Kebabe

    Kebabe
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    Why does Victrieebel have a analysis?
    Hack likes this.
  8. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
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    It's an alternative Venusaur. For a little less damage on Grass Knot (you miss hte sure 2HKO on Arc formes but still keep it at like 80%) you get a stronger Fire move for the likes of Jirachi and Dialga (2HKOs offensive variants) as well as a free Hidden Power to use as Rock or something. (cause fuck Ho-Oh) It's as bad as Venusaur but just as viable.
  9. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    I don't see why you /need/ a research week to get out and test these Pokemon. While I do understand it grants much more motivation and more recognition, what stops you from getting out there and testing Toxicroak? I do keep a list of RW options in the ubers mods channel and in fact, Toxicroak is there. I ran the calc once; +2 Toxicroak w/ LO OHKOs Groudon after 3 Spikes + SR w/ Low Kick. That's pretty strong actually. I think it's a bit too late into BW2 for RWs to be done. We pretty much know the metagame already. However there are discovers everywhere and everytime. Take for example Melee's Umbreon. Have no fear and go test, don't be scared to come back with results!

    Same case. It's just too much of a hassle to get out and look for good posts. If someone is worthy of the badge, he will be persistent and keep good quality -- the Ubers team and I do our best finding these people.
  10. rileydelete

    rileydelete

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    I agree, Furai. It does seem too late for another research week. I just wouldn't mind one final Ubers project; something like a "last hurrah" to bring together the Ubers community before the fifth generation of Pokemon comes to a close.

    This is relieving. I'm sad the potato award can't happening any more, but I'm glad that members like you actively go out and find great posts and posters. Thanks a lot, Furai, for your hard work behind the scenes, and thanks for your response! :)
  11. Wettin

    Wettin

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    Why isn't Jirachi a Uber ? o:
  12. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    It's place in OU has nothing to do with Ubers. If OU thinks it is broken, it will be voted upon and might get banned, but that will not affect Jirachi's roles in Ubers.
  13. Talpr0ne

    Talpr0ne

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    Ok guys, explain this to me.
    Does Download boost the stats of Genesect in cases like this?
  14. rileydelete

    rileydelete

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    Genesect's download will boost whatever stat will be stronger against "another thing". It's a one time (one per switch-in) boost on the first Pokemon Genesect sees.

    I hope this clears things up :)
  15. Flaming Facepalm

    Flaming Facepalm

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    How should Genesect be used in battle, and in what situations are it best in?
  16. Kebabe

    Kebabe
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    No, download does not activate if there isnt a pokemon on the opposite side of the field when you switch in (U-turn/volt switch KO is the most common case of this). It works the same way with intimidate if I remember correctly.
  17. rileydelete

    rileydelete

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    Genesect is, in my own opinion, the best U-turning Pokemon in the entire game, and arguably the best Choice Scarf user. U-turn is an amazing tool that lets a player dent, or even KO something like, say, Latios, and then give you what amounts to a free switch. Denting something like Kyoge is extremely important in that it gives your team free momentum.

    Picture the following situation:

    It is turn one, and you decide to use a Physically based, Choice Scarf Genesect while your opponent sends in a Kyogre. In addition to Genesect, you have a Lustrous Orb Palkia on your team. Now you can simply switch to Palkia to deal with Kyogre but why just switch when you can use U-turn? Needless to say, you use U-turn, hit Kyogre on it's weaker physical side, and make it lose 50% of health. Kyogre then fires off a Surf right into your Palkia. Palkia takes minimal damage. The turn ends.

    It's now turn two, and it's Palkia vs Kyogre. You know that Palkia will outspeed all non Scarf Kyogres. That means your opponent is ether going to switch, something that allows you to predict, or your opponent leaves Kyogre in and you kill it with Thunder.

    Genesect has already given you a tactical advantage and it's less than four turns into the match. With it's powerful STAB U-turn, Genesect has helped you gain one heck of an early game advantage. In fairness, the Kyogre set could have something like Thunder Wave, which lets it mess with Palkia, but overall, you've dealt a lot of damage to the beast, and probably a KO/ high damage if Kyogre switches out.

    Now this is not Genesect's only skill; with it's 99 base speed, Scarf Genesect is a fantastic revenge killer. With U-turn, it can KO many Psychic and Dark Pokemon, with Iron Head, it can smash the Kyurem Forms, with Ice Beam, it can murder Shaymin-S and, Rayquaza (even after a dragon dance), with Flamethrower it can melt Forretress, Ferrothorn, and more. It also has Explosion to literally go out with a bang, something that destroys things like Ho-Oh. Finally, it has Thunder/Thunderbolt in case of other Pokemon. Genesect's Download boost can potentially give all of the above options even more power. Genesect is a very powerful killing machine. With a scarf, it can kill and revenge kill many things throughout a match.

    Overall, Scarf Genesect is great for momentum, and great for revenge kills. It can clean, scout early game, and more.

    P.S. You can also use Shift Gear for a sweeping set, but I never see it. It's kind of bad. Extremespeed and Blaze Kick can be used too if you wish.

    I hope this helps :)
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
  18. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
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    It's not quite this. If you come in via U-Turn/Volt Switch KO then you don't get a boost but if you bring it in after a double KO you get a special attack boost. (I'm not even sure if it's this. I just remember getting special attack boosts a lot when there was nothing on the other side. Ugh, Download is so complicated.)
  19. Kebabe

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    Yeah you get the boost when you both send out during the same command turn, turn 1 for example. Basically you dont get a boost when Genesect is out and the opponent still have to decide what to send out.
    Melee Mewtwo likes this.
  20. cjrocker

    cjrocker

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    Did I miss this or was the idea just abandoned? Seems kind of late to do any further testing.
  21. KJJBA

    KJJBA

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    I know that outrage can last between 2 and 3 turns but what is the probability of it only lasting 2 instead of the full 3?
  22. Flaming Facepalm

    Flaming Facepalm

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    Rayquaza is known for being able to use many different styles of offense to its advantage. You need to be more specific when asking such questions.

    Do you want a Dragon Dance set? A Swords Dance set? A mixed set?
  23. rileydelete

    rileydelete

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    I did some research and it seems the probability is completely randomized. There's no percentage or anything similar.

    There's not really a set that one can consider "best", but many people advocate that the Swords Dance set is extremely viable. It gets a powerful priority in the form of Extremespeed. After a boost, Ray can be hard to stop.

    If there's anything else I can do for you guys, let me know :)
  24. rileydelete

    rileydelete

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    The Dragon Dance set is both powerful, and fast. Sadly, it's not terribly hard to beat. Scarf Palkia and Genesect deal with it handily, as well as the occasional scarf Mewtwo/ scarf HP Ice users with higher than 95 base speed. Revenge killers in general give Rayquaza hell. Honestly, Rayquaza's downfall is it's frailty. 105/90/90 is decent bulk, but it's not enough to avoid being 2HKO'd by most neutral attacks.

    Generally, if you want to use Rayquaza, you want it to hit as hard and as fast as possible, because if something manages to outspeed it, more often than not, Rayquaza's lifespan will be cut short.

    If there's anything else I can help you with, feel free to ask :)
  25. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    The Mixed set and the Swords Dance set tend to be the most successful.

    The Mixed set has the most immediate power of all the sets, being able to destroy most of the metagame in one hit, or anything not named Heatran in two. It tends to hit and run since its speed, while good, is far from exceptional. It also checks Swift Swim Pokemon better than the Swords Dance set (mainly because Kabutops/Omastar have decent defense to survive an unboosted Dragon Claw and resist V-Create).

    The Swords Dance set is also quite powerful, but mostly seeks to find a free turn by forcing a switch to set up and then tear as many holes into the opposing team as it can. Since it uses Extremespeed, it cannot be revenge killed by Scarf Pokemon that are not significantly bulky or resist Extremespeed (and even those will fall if weakened), while the power of a +2 Dragon Claw is terrifying and a +2 V-Create is completely ridiculous.

    Both sets use priority, which is a valuable asset for any team for its general utility against offensive teams.

    The Dragon Dance set struggles for many reasons. Even after a set up (which is difficult enough already) it is still outsped by many common Scarf Pokemon (all of which can OHKO it). It also relies heavily on Outrage, which is a rather problematic move because Steel types easily take advantage of it, allowing them to phaze/paralyze/attack it. If that isn't enough reason not to use it, it also hates priority (much like all Rayquaza sets).

    If you really want a Rayquaza that boosts its speed though, the Mixed Dragon Dance set or a Tailwind set are better options. The Mixed Dancer can function quite like the Mixed set as a general wallbreaker that hits and runs, but then surprise the opponent lategame by setting up. It is also harder to play around, since it does not need to lock itself into Outrage as quickly thanks to Draco Meteor. A Tailwind set with identical moves (apart from Tailwind over Dragon Dance) is also an option. It may seem inferior initially, since it only boosts speed and not attack and is only temporary, but the difference in speed is critical. After a Tailwind, all the Scarf Pokemon that usually check Rayquaza even after a set up are now outsped and OHKO'd. Outside of powerful priority or very bulky walls that are not weak to any of its attacks (Lugia and bulky Arceus are the only ones to fit this category), Rayquaza is incredibly difficult to handle with the speed boost from Tailwind. It also has the added advantage that if Rayquaza is killed while Tailwind is still up, Tailwind now supports its team for a turn or two.

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