Ladder Balanced Hackmons

TheTraininator still frequents the site, so I'd prefer that he respond to your post/someone try to rectify the two viewpoints before anything on PS gets changed.
There's no viewpoint about it. You can't mega Mega Pokemon in game. If we change things like EVs to fit with the game's capabilities than I think we have to change this. Unless megaing is only possible in link battles which I haven't tested.
 

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[PLACEHOLDER]
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
the linked video shows a mega Charizard Y mega evolving into a mega Charizard X, which contradicts what you say. To that end I'm not going to ask someone to fix things (and Zarel definitely wouldn't accept a pull request) until there's clarification as to why you two have different evidences (that both appear reasonable) that point to different conclusions.


Edit: I misconstrued the word patch as referring to PS and not to the game itself. If it turns out that this ability was patched out of Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, if I PS technical staff doesn't say we Need to update I will let the community vote to decide whether or not we want to assume Balanced Hackmons is played on an old version of ORAS in order to preserve this mechanic.
 
This set doesnt really cripple shedinja too badly as all it usuall does is baton pass out anyway. And Pdon doesnt like losing its choice band since wallbreaking is significantly harder. This set is ok. 6/10.
Also, it might only be me, but i would never switch imposter chansey into Pdon because TA from any set is bound to do serious damage, especially banded sets which are quite common. The threat of TA is too great to switch in.

Anyway guys, I have an imposter Chansey set, but with a twist:


Chansey @ Lucky Punch
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / nothing else matters, really
Nature: who cares
-filler
-fillet
-filler
-filler

When Chansey holds lucky punch, her crit rate is increased to a whopping 50% allowing Chansey to easily defeat Quiver Dance PH primal Kyogre, break past things like fur coat (and eviolite i think, could be wrong) and generally make Chansey more powerful.
What do you guys think? This imposter Chansey sacrifices bulk for offensive prowess.
Lucky Punch was always a viable item on Chansey. Things like Imposter Bone Marowak and Ball Pikachu are great revengers too, except there is too much offense that can only be taken care of by Eviolite Chansey, so people prefer that.
 
the linked video shows a mega Charizard Y mega evolving into a mega Charizard X, which contradicts what you say. To that end I'm not going to ask someone to fix things (and Zarel definitely wouldn't accept a pull request) until there's clarification as to why you two have different evidences (that both appear reasonable) that point to different conclusions.


Edit: I misconstrued the word patch as referring to PS and not to the game itself. If it turns out that this ability was patched out of Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, if I PS technical staff doesn't say we Need to update I will let the community vote to decide whether or not we want to assume Balanced Hackmons is played on an old version of ORAS in order to preserve this mechanic.
The video shown was XY not ORAS. They could have patched it for the ORAS release carts.
 
the linked video shows a mega Charizard Y mega evolving into a mega Charizard X, which contradicts what you say. To that end I'm not going to ask someone to fix things (and Zarel definitely wouldn't accept a pull request) until there's clarification as to why you two have different evidences (that both appear reasonable) that point to different conclusions.


Edit: I misconstrued the word patch as referring to PS and not to the game itself. If it turns out that this ability was patched out of Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, if I PS technical staff doesn't say we Need to update I will let the community vote to decide whether or not we want to assume Balanced Hackmons is played on an old version of ORAS in order to preserve this mechanic.
Actually I just tested it again. You CAN mega mega Pokemon but only from one mega form to another. IE charizard Y -> X but not from pokes like mega gyrados to a mega gyrados or mega char y to mega char y
 

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[PLACEHOLDER]
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
Interesting. I do still want to wait to hear from TheTraininator though, in case he used a different method than pokegen that handled the hacked in pokemon's species differently.

Tagging V4 and marty since they are the competitive community's foremost technical experts and might be interested in this conversation.
 
Welp this is what happens when you assume they aren't banded
No, the calc clearly states that pdon is banded.
Edit: You were probably referring to something else, so forgive me if i misunderstood that statement - if there were any misunderstandings in the first place.
My point being is that not everyone will carry a Fur Coat Chansey. Besides, what would happen if they tricked you their Choice Band, or if they're Mold Breaker? That pretty much eliminates the usefulness of said Fur Coat chansey, as it needs Eviolite in order to reliably tank banded hits, and without Fur Coat, well... This is discounting the possibility that Groudon-P runs V-create over Arrows (although Arrows are far more common due to no immunities)
I'm too tired to reply properly to everything here, so i'll just say that you bring up good points. So thank you, i guess.
 
Oh one more thing Thousand Arrows doesn't work like we thought it worked.
Instead of being super effective on pokes like Zapdos or Talonflame it knocks them to the ground. So turn one it just knocks them down turn two it starts being super effective. I'm unsure how it works on say a levitate Registeel.
 
Does TA deal neutral damage on the first turn then? What if you used it on something like Tropius? Does it take half damage before being knocked down?
 
Does TA deal neutral damage on the first turn then? What if you used it on something like Tropius? Does it take half damage before being knocked down?
Yes it does neutral damage on the first turn. I'm not sure I'll go find a Tropius and get back to you, but I'd imagine it's not very effective against tropius.

Does TA deal neutral damage on the first turn then? What if you used it on something like Tropius? Does it take half damage before being knocked down?
I just found a Tropius the attack didn't say it was not very effective so I guess turn one it always does neutral damage to flying pokes. I did kill it though so IDK how turn 2 would be for it but most likely NVE
 
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the linked video shows a mega Charizard Y mega evolving into a mega Charizard X, which contradicts what you say. To that end I'm not going to ask someone to fix things (and Zarel definitely wouldn't accept a pull request) until there's clarification as to why you two have different evidences (that both appear reasonable) that point to different conclusions.


Edit: I misconstrued the word patch as referring to PS and not to the game itself. If it turns out that this ability was patched out of Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, if I PS technical staff doesn't say we Need to update I will let the community vote to decide whether or not we want to assume Balanced Hackmons is played on an old version of ORAS in order to preserve this mechanic.
Hey man, the 510 EVs rule was because of an XY patch (1.3 to be exact) and you could have played on old versions with more EVs. I'm pretty sure there was no vote there and we followed the latest mechanics. Double standards?
 

verbatim

[PLACEHOLDER]
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
My statement was made in confusion and I apologize. Like many people I had a lot of conflicting viewpoints with regards to 510 EVs, and had considered resolving the issue with a poll. I spent a lot of time talking with a lot of people on the issue before speaking on the technical philosophy of PS. I addressed this not noticing the obvious similarity and thank you for pointing that out.
 
I'm unsure if the 510 EVs rule is even well founded. I have a greninja with 252 EVs in everything in game. I know I can't use him in wifi but idk about local wireless.

The thing is though if we're just basing our rules over what's possible on wifi then we should shut down Balanced Hackmons entirely since you can't use any hacked pokes online now.

I'll see if I can get a match with someone on campus to see if the EV limit should exist or not.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Hey man, the 510 EVs rule was because of an XY patch (1.3 to be exact) and you could have played on old versions with more EVs. I'm pretty sure there was no vote there and we followed the latest mechanics. Double standards?
My statement was made in confusion and I apologize. Like many people I had a lot of conflicting viewpoints with regards to 510 EVs, and had considered resolving the issue with a poll. I spent a lot of time talking with a lot of people on the issue before speaking on the technical philosophy of PS. I addressed this not noticing the obvious similarity and thank you for pointing that out.
honestly, personally, i figure we should just not bother with the poll and just accept the new mechanic(if its true). mainly because for the ev limit-for example-we would've had to either ignore oras and keep our lack of ev limit, or accept oras, and forced into 510 evs because oras wouldnt have a pre patch for the limitless evs. it will just cause a lot of confusion, and if we really ARE trying hard to stick to mechanics, then "Reverting to a past patch" is really just "Delaying the inevitable" come the next generation of games.

and again, can we even PLAY oras bh on cartridge atm? i remember in x and y there was a patch that prevented this, and i don't think that was changed in oras(and i doubt there's a way to revert this in oras since it is probably coded in the main game, and not a patch)... or was i completely misinterpreting what kaphotics(forgot his name) said(i think he said "revert to past patch=problem solved" or something along those lines), and it IS possible to play BH on cartridge?

the reason i ask is because in the case my trail of thought is right, then technically we are already going against core mechanics. and reverting the 510 EV limit would be acceptable despite being against core mechanics due to it "saving our meta from disaster" just like our ignoring the patch, and im 99% positive theres nobody even here that likes the 510 limit lol.

my apologies for fighting your opinions verbatim and TI, i just want clarification.

edit: im reffering to this btw: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons.3489849/page-87#post-5828638
 
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I'm unsure if the 510 EVs rule is even well founded. I have a greninja with 252 EVs in everything in game. I know I can't use him in wifi but idk about local wireless.

The thing is though if we're just basing our rules over what's possible on wifi then we should shut down Balanced Hackmons entirely since you can't use any hacked pokes online now.

I'll see if I can get a match with someone on campus to see if the EV limit should exist or not.
IIRC SciresM tested locally and
it blocked more than 510 evs
 

verbatim

[PLACEHOLDER]
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
the reason i ask is because in the case my trail of thought is right, then technically we are already going against core mechanics. and reverting the 510 EV limit would be acceptable despite being against core mechanics due to it "saving our meta from disaster" just like our ignoring the patch, and im 99% positive theres nobody even here that likes the 510 limit lol.
Paging zarel since he's the one who would be accepting any pull request changes wrt EV limits or mega limitations and since he's an important part in resolving this (you are right) weirdly framed ethos of "what is BH".
 
Well, that was a lot to come back from work to. The 1k Arrows thing is interesting, which means Skarm, Ho-Oh, and Levitran aren't so pointless. Megas not being able to mega into themselves is also a bit of a change. I wonder if we always assumed it was possible because we saw Zard-Y turning into Zard-X?

ufailowell , while you're at it, can you test Arceus forms to see if they retain typing without plate + multitype or if the behavior is the same as it is in sim/Gen V carts? I've been wanting to look at this for a while, have been asking about it, but got no responses. My computer lacks a SD Card reader, so dunno if I can do Pokegen myself or not.

Another interesting one would be to check Imposter held items. Just need a double battle, two flawless 6 IV mons, one of which is Eviolite Chansey or something, have Chansey Transform on your other mon (not the opponent since you don't know their IVs), and then attack Chansey and compare damage to a calc.
 
Rumors I checked Arceus and he does still work that way. Idk if You knew this but you can have him masquerading as one type and use plate and multitype to be another type. Once you take Arceus' Item he reverts back to multitype when he's an altered form I haven't tried a normal form. Multitype + Plate doesn't work for any other pokes.

I found an easier way to test it. I gave Chansey Lucky Punch and teamed it up with a poke know three moves with High Critical hit ratios. That would mean if the items worked it would get a crit 100% of the time. The first battle in the maison gave it 4 crits out of 4 attacks so I think the items do work through the transform.

About your Zard-x to Zard-y. I've only seen megas changing to the other megas in game play and never to themselves in footage.

I did another battle Maison battle again all crits. The items definitely work.
 

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