Ladder Balanced Hackmons

I've been trying this out lately:

Volcanion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Scald (Steam Eruption isn't available yet)
- Fire Blast / Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt

Works alright so far, although the bad sprite distracts me... lol.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
I think volcanion is pretty much outclassed in most offensive roles, and should stick to using its unique typing for defensive roles. It lacks speed and has subpar attacking stats :/

Btw you know you can put 252 in every EV right?
 

Arcticblast

Trans rights are human rights
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Hi I'm going to organize a mass unofficial BH tournament, PM me if you want to be in. Hopefully we can get to 32 people, no credentials required at all.
Hi please don't do this right now

Currently the OM staff and I (along with a few other users) are hammering out the details to get a BH tour in the Tournaments forum. Stay tuned!
 
I think volcanion is pretty much outclassed in most offensive roles, and should stick to using its unique typing for defensive roles. It lacks speed and has subpar attacking stats :/

Btw you know you can put 252 in every EV right?
Yes derp, I was using my non BH set.
 
Hey, folks, I'd just like some input on a couple of pokes on my team that are supposed to work in synergy:

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Lum Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Gunk Shot
- Recycle/Magic Coat
- Recover/Magic Coat

Scizor-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Megahorn
- Defog/Recover/Heart Swap
- U-Turn/Parting Shot

I use them to turn annoying Imposters, which normally demolish sweepers, into an advantage for me. After getting the Flash Fire boost, Scizor, who is immune to all of Mega Mewtwo X's attacks, can retaliate against the opponent with a "STAB" V-Create, which does quite a lot of damage coming off 150 base attack.

This has been working so far, but does anyone have any suggestions/commentary on the options in bold? Magic Coat is nice to bounce back status, Parting Shot is arguably better than U-Turn, Heart Swap can deter set-up sweepers looking for a free turn on me, and Recover is to avoid death.

Oh, and Leftovers is Leftovers. Not much to say about that, except the obvious fact that you shouldn't be using Recycle with 'em.
 

Arhops

Professor Layton's Little Brother
is a Smogon Discord Contributor
Hey, folks, I'd just like some input on a couple of pokes on my team that are supposed to work in synergy:

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Lum Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Gunk Shot
- Recycle/Magic Coat
- Recover/Magic Coat

Scizor-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Megahorn
- Defog/Recover/Heart Swap
- U-Turn/Parting Shot

I use them to turn annoying Imposters, which normally demolish sweepers, into an advantage for me. After getting the Flash Fire boost, Scizor, who is immune to all of Mega Mewtwo X's attacks, can retaliate against the opponent with a "STAB" V-Create, which does quite a lot of damage coming off 150 base attack.

This has been working so far, but does anyone have any suggestions/commentary on the options in bold? Magic Coat is nice to bounce back status, Parting Shot is arguably better than U-Turn, Heart Swap can deter set-up sweepers looking for a free turn on me, and Recover is to avoid death.

Oh, and Leftovers is Leftovers. Not much to say about that, except the obvious fact that you shouldn't be using Recycle with 'em.
I don't play much BH but I know that some people run baton pass instead of u-turn or parting shot because parting shot gets bounced giving the opponent free switches and baton pass has more pp than u-turn if suddenly you get into a situation where you have to out stall your opponent.

Also heart swap + baton pass might work.
 
I don't play much BH but I know that some people run baton pass instead of u-turn or parting shot because parting shot gets bounced giving the opponent free switches and baton pass has more pp than u-turn if suddenly you get into a situation where you have to out stall your opponent.

Also heart swap + baton pass might work.
Yeah, I didn't think of baton pass and how it might work with Heart Swap; I'll try that when I get the chance.

Thanks!
 
Gengar, Kanghaskan, and Medicham have the ability to mega-evolve and gain access to banned abilities, so maybe we should ban their mega stones? The only reason you would use stones if you didn't plan on mega-evolving is to avoid Knock Off and none of those pokemon are defensive enough that you would switch them into something carrying Knock Off and expect anything to happen.

Also, ban Poison Heal. 12% HP recovery was fine when it was on Breloom but when you can put it on Kyogre (or something of similar bulk) it becomes ridiculous.
 
Gengar, Kanghaskan, and Medicham have the ability to mega-evolve and gain access to banned abilities, so maybe we should ban their mega stones? The only reason you would use stones if you didn't plan on mega-evolving is to avoid Knock Off and none of those pokemon are defensive enough that you would switch them into something carrying Knock Off and expect anything to happen.

Also, ban Poison Heal. 12% HP recovery was fine when it was on Breloom but when you can put it on Kyogre (or something of similar bulk) it becomes ridiculous.
The mega stones don't need a ban at all. They are exceptions to the rule that are tough to use but can have some success if played right.

Poison Heal is a much greater threat than those Mega Stones and when played right it has little counters, but they still do exist. You can Skill Swap or pass Entrainment to a Poison heal Pokemon to start hurting it from the poison, as well as Knock Off the Toxic Orb before it can be poisoned. Additionally, if a Poison Heal Pokemon cannot take out Shedinja, then a Shedinja with Whirlpool + Endeavor should clean any Poison Heal mon up. And lastly there is Toxic Orb Imposter Chansey. Almost no Poison Heal mons (especially sweepers) are prepared to face an Imposter that is Poison healing like them with twice the HP.
 
Ok hear me out because I barely played bh last gen and I know heart swap was a big thing but while it's nice to get the boosts I feel topsy turvy is somewhat better as it's moreso of a counter to contrary/ setup sweepers imo.
In regards to poison heal you can always run a wall breaker such as the god of wall breaking kyurem w or you can have a mega Latios just run anything to beat virago a and gives as those are the two main phers (I think)
 
Ok hear me out because I barely played bh last gen and I know heart swap was a big thing but while it's nice to get the boosts I feel topsy turvy is somewhat better as it's moreso of a counter to contrary/ setup sweepers imo.
In regards to poison heal you can always run a wall breaker such as the god of wall breaking kyurem w or you can have a mega Latios just run anything to beat virago a and gives as those are the two main phers (I think)
I wouldn't say that Heart Swap or Topsy Turvy alone is a counter to Contrary, a check at best that is somewhat inconsistent based on the coverage used by the Contrary Pokemon. Last Gen, Unaware truly was a counter to Contrary (partly because of the glitched mechanics, where Mold Breaker didn't break Unaware and partly because there weren't such strong attackers as we see now), meaning you could switch in an 80% HP ~ 100% HP Unaware Pokemon and be able to spam recover then status or whatever. Somewhat near the end of Gen V the glitch was fixed and Unaware got less useful, but Poison Heal usage dramatically rose, though that's another story.

Back on topic about Contrary vs Heart Swap/Topsy Turvy, I don't believe they are counters because switching anything into them are very risky. In the many battles I've played and even more I've spectated, I witness that very often something gets KO-ed when a Contrary Pokemon is being used. Sure you can have one of your Pokemon KO-ed, then switch in your Prankster/Unaware with Heart Swap or Topsy and use it, but what if you need to do it again and lose another Pokemon? Or what if they have like 3 Contrary mons? This makes Contrary very difficult to stop, even with those abilities and the most consistent counter, which I believe to be Shedinja is irrelevant when hazards are up and/or the Contrary mon has some move that can touch the bug.

Also on Poison Heal, walls breakers are only going to work if you exert a lot of offensive pressure because once you let the Poison Heal Pokemon set up, wall breakers are more or less ineffective.
 
Most Contraries tend to run only moves that get boosted by Contrary, like Draco Meteor and V-Create, and most of the ones who have other moves tend to run recovery or anti-Shed rather than additional coverage. Consequently, anything bulky and neutral or resistant to those moves can run Unaware safely against them. For example, Unaware Cress can safely switch in to most Contraries as it only takes about 40% from Kyu-W's Draco Meteor and can then proceed to punish them. An Unaware sweeper, such as a Darm-Z I used to run in Gen V, can also just get in and set-up on the Contrary. Meanwhile, stuff like Flash Fire Aegilash and Togekiss wall most Contrary moves heavily and can stay in long enough to phaze or punish.

If you want an Unaware but are worried about it being dead weight in some games, then just make an Unaware sweeper. That way you can check other set-up sweepers, function against teams that lack them, and aren't scared if they Heart Swap or Imposter you.

Not to mention Contraries need momentum to get going in most cases, so if you can prevent that momentum you can deal with them without relying on Prankster/Unaware. And, if you can sleep or paralyze them, or burn for physical Contrary, they'll find it very hard to get any momentum.

As for Heart Swap vs Topsy, the former passes through Sub, the latter does not. The former lets you counter sweep or baton pass to a sweeper of your own while the latter pretty much ensures that they'll be shut down if they stay in. Heart Swapping Shell Smash is risky while Topsy-Turvying it is not. Remember there is other options though. Haze has a metric ton of PP if you need to constantly stop set-up sweepers and pretty much shuts down Baton Pass teams since PP stalling Haze takes a very long time. Perish Song will force the opponent to switch or die and, if they have Ingrain, guarantees a KO if they don't have an escape from their own self-trapping. Whirlwind, Dragon Tail, and Circle Throw shuffle them out, but is stopped by Ingrain and the latter two have immunities. Then, of course, there's Imposter with all the benefits and risks that it brings.


As for wall breakers, due to anti-setup being fairly commonish, you really want something that can hit hard with little to no set-up time. An example I used in Gen V was Choice Band Adaptability Entei who could outspeed and OHKO PH Gigas with V-Create or seriously maim Giratina with Dragon Rush.
 
Most Contraries tend to run only moves that get boosted by Contrary, like Draco Meteor and V-Create, and most of the ones who have other moves tend to run recovery or anti-Shed rather than additional coverage. Consequently, anything bulky and neutral or resistant to those moves can run Unaware safely against them. For example, Unaware Cress can safely switch in to most Contraries as it only takes about 40% from Kyu-W's Draco Meteor and can then proceed to punish them.
True most do, but as players get better I think they'll realize there's way more potential, like this set:

Mega-Blaziken - Contrary
-V-create
-Earthquake
-Bolt Strike
-Superpower/Draco Meteor/Other

With these three moves alone, Blaziken nearly 2 HKOs the entire tier, with nothing resisting all three moves aside from special cases (Lando with FF).

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Cresselia: 238-282 (53.6 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Flash Fire Aegislash-Shield: 152-180 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- 74.6% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Flash Fire Togekiss: 272-320 (72.7 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Six Contrary pokemon in one team is basically the ultimate situational "screw you" aside from a six-Imposter team- Sure, your counter(s) will take out one, two, three or even four of them, but you have to take on an entire team.

Of course, Impostering them and countersweeping is also quite easy, but that still requires you to run Imposter yourself.
 
I see a lot of Contrary 'mons running around nowadays. Does anyone have a good all-around counter for them? I've been using Unaware Chansey, but physical Fighting moves, of which there seem to be a lot thanks to the prominence of Mega Mewtwo X and Mega Blaziken, really get to her.
 
If you're not running into a player creative enough to make a Contrary set like the one KIP suggested above, this pokemon handles most of them.

Cress Mk. III (Cresselia) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Bolt Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Wish
- Heart Swap
- Baton Pass


You can also run Lefties and another move instead of Wish (Stored Power is hilarious). Calm is a viable nature too, though Bold is to avoid possible 2HKOs from certain V-Creates if you switch into them. General idea is get in, spam Recover until they're boosted, steal the boosts, and then pass them to a teammate.


Here's another I used in Gen V, but it should still work since Contrary doesn't have any new toys this gen.

Test Dummy 3.0 (Darmanitan-Zen) Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Psystrike
- Quiver Dance
- Recover

Darm-Z resists all physical Contrary moves, most special ones, and has decent bulk. Kyu-W can 2HKO it with Draco Meteor if boosts aren't in place, but a single QD puts it safely out of 2HKO range, barring crits. The idea is to simply set-up alongside the Contrary and then start mowing down the other team. This set also walls itself should an Imposter come in to copy your boosts, though you can run a Flash Fire Dark-type if you don't want to wait for the Imposter to run out of PP.

Flamethrower was there for PP reasons. Searing Shot, Lava Plume, and Blue Flare are all three viable alternatives depending on your needs.

Edit: 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Darmanitan-Z: 214-254 (51.6 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Darmanitan-Z Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Blaziken: 314-372 (86.2 - 102.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Yeah, KIP's Blaziken doesn't want any of that unless it manages to nail Darm with EQ on the switch. :p Especially since, if it's not running Adamant or Darm is running bold, the damage drops to 55% max, which in turn means it's not an ensured 2HKO if Darm has Lefties. It's impossible to 2HKO if Blazi is Jolly and Darm is Bold and the latter has Lefties. You could give Blazi a Life Orb, but then it'll be OHKOed in response almost every time.


*By "Contrary moves", I specifically mean the ones that give stat boosts when used with Contrary.
 
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Thanks, Rumors! I'm relatively new to the BH scene, and I think I'll try to build a couple of my own sets using the bases you have there.

By the way, what's your opinion about Metal Burst on, say, Cresselia? Is it not worth the moveslot, being too unreliable and easily predicted?
 
I've not toyed around much with Metal Burst on Cress (or at all, really). On paper it could probably work quite well due to her above-average HP. Never hurts to try at any rate.
 
I used metal burst on all of my unaware cresselias (well except the baton pass one), it's a fantastic move since after you've healed to full you can metal burst contrarymons and do a fatal amount of damage. Most people don't expect it either, which is very nice.
 
Metal Burst + Unaware was a very common sight last gen, especially with Chansey, it was used with:

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: NaN Atk / NaN Spd
- Metal Burst
- Heal Order
- Magic Coat
- Perish Song

Unaware Chansey was easily one of the best Unawares last gen, Metal Burst did immense damage even by taking a little damage from the opposition.

However, I wouldn't suggest using it this gen, Knock Off, Poison Heal + Sleep and other strategies are just too common.

Also, this is my 300th post!
 
Good new everybody. The mega forms of Latios and Latias are implemented in PS, as well as Hoopa, Volcanion, and Diance. To use them you have to manually edit the import/export of your team. The abilities of the legendary trio are not implemented as of yet but there are placeholders for them which apparently do nothing as of yet. Lati@s-Mega cannot make use of soul dew and both are dragon/psychic. All of these pokes are currently usable in BH, and they do have some potential, particularly Volcanion with his odd but useful defensive typing.

Early calculation of the base stats are as follows:
Latios-Mega
80/130/100/160/120/110

Latias-Mega
80/115/120/120/150/110
Volcanion
70/109/120/121/110/70
Hoopa
80/105/59/151/130/75
Diance
50/100/150/100/150/50
The only source I've been able to find for those Volcanion and Hoopa stats is here: http://pkgamers.skn1.com/printthread.php?tid=123
From what I understand, they assumed neutral natures for their estimates, which isn't true. The obviously erroneous Diancie stats listed failed to account for the fact that Smealum's specimen had a Gentle nature, which was revealed by later screenshots, while his Volcanion and Hoopa are Careful and Bold, respectively.
Just thought I'd point that out.
 
I have a proposal for an "Ability Clause" in Balanced Hackmons. I understand that bans and clauses are put into effect based on how broken or centralizing things are and I believe that this clause will make the meta more balanced, along with less centralization on some of the stronger abilites. This will make teams less reliant on countering these 'hit or miss' strategies and allow them to focus more on preparing for competitive teams.

I have been playing Balanced Hackmons consistently for about one year now and have seen Huge/Pure Power un-bannned at the beginning of X and Y followed by Huge/Pure Power being rebanned after it was again deemed broken. The only other ban I've been involved with, which is the latest ban, is the ability Parental Bond. For this example of what an Ability Clause can do, I'm going to start off talking about what it could have done for the meta when Huge/Pure Power was running wild.

Example (Slaking Huge/Pure Power)

A match against a skilled player named Arkeis and myself on an alt. We both had teams with Huge/Pure Power Pokemon and counter(s). My team was composed of five (5/6 of the team) Huge/Pure Power Slakings, each with a Lum Berry and each with the exact same moveset: ExtremeSpeed, Sacred Fire, Infestation and Dragon Claw. Clearly Imposters are an issue for this, hence the Flash Fire Aegislash. I was able to win most of my matches with this team and it took me around one minute to make.

Now let's imagine that an Ability Clause was implemented while I was breaking the ladder with five Slakings. This would have restricted me to a single Slaking, which could be dealt with much easier. Arkeis' Giratina alone could have managed without much trouble, the use of Gastro Acid was highly effective, even after it got burned from Sacred Fire. Another set that could work possibly better would be a Poison Heal Giratina with King's Shield or a Fur Coat Pokemon, to even out the offense and defense boost. What I'm getting at is that a ban may have not been deemed worthy if an Ability Clause were put into effect.


I believe there are more abilities similar to Huge/Pure Power in the current meta, not as much ladder breaking but still very strong. What I mean by this is, abilities that a player can put onto two or more Pokemon and achieve a fairly high elo on the ladder (1300+). Four abilities stand out in the meta right now that fit this criteria: Contrary, Imposter, Poison Heal, and Refrigerate.

Contrary

One Reshiram with V-Create, Draco-Meteor, Psycho Boost and Leaf Storm can be difficult to stop. If Stealth Rock or Spikes is set up, this monster can blow through one of it's possible counters, Sturdy Shedinja. Unaware, Imposter and Prankster (Destiny Bond and Heart Swap/Haze) are the most effective ways at stopping them, but can they handle a team with three Contrary Pokemon, each with different sets, coverage and other moves? Often times teams will be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of force these Pokemon exert. Lately I've been testing out a team with 3 Contrary Pokemon with anti-Shedinja coverage and it's proven to be highly effective.


Imposter

The pink blob, Chansey/Blissey that holds the meta together, can stop many boosting threats that aren't specifically designed to stop it. One Chansey is difficult enough to wear down, but two or more without the proper counter can out-stall and drain PP from teams without even having to attack. In addition, as previously mentioned in a post above this, Blissey with a Toxic Orb can stop most Poison Healers, as often their anti-imposterness is the lack of status on the Imposter. A certain player by the name of Kl4ng reached 1500+ elo on the ladder using 4 Imposters! 2 Chanseys, each with Eviolite and 2 Blisseys, one with a Toxic Orb and one with a Spooky Plate. He is a skilled player but his team took all of 30 seconds to build 2/3's of it.


Poison Heal

What started out as a Regigigas trend quickly grew to one or more Poison Healers on a single team. The reason is simple, because not only is it anti-imposter most of the time (except Toxic Orb Bliss), the sheer setup and sweep power is nearly unrivaled because no status can be afflicted on them, with only abilities like Gastro Acid/Simple/Worry Seed/Entrainment/Skill Swap to make the Poison Hurt them. Strategies like Lum Berry + Trick are amazing for stopping Poison Heal, but are nearly ineffective if the other player has more than one Poison Heal Pokemon. Rumors, a skilled player, (and Kl4ng I think lol) used a team in Gen V that had all 6 Poison Heal Pokemon and they both made it high on the ladder.


Refrigerate

Kyurem has more unboosted sweeping power than most of the Pokemon in the meta. Both forms, Kyu-B with Fake Out + ExtremeSpeed and Kyu-W with Boomburst, are devastating forces to be reckoned with. Scaring away Lugia, Rayquaza and keeping Giratina on the run. Aerilate and Pixilate also get a mention here, while not as devastating, they still can have similar effects. I mostly mention this with the other three abilities because on final two matches to reach the top of the ladder, I used a team that had 2 Refrigerate and 1 Pixilate and barely won both matches against one of the top players.


In conclusion, I believe that if an Ability Clause were to happen, it would encourage more creative teams, more balanced teams and more competitive teams. I've talked with E4 Flint about this and he supports an Ability Clause and I'm sure many other players would as well. Here's to a better year in Balanced Hackmons, the GMOAT (Greatest Meta of All Time)! ^_^
 

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