Battle Mechanics Research

breh

強いだね
out of curiosity: would a pokemon with intimidate mega evolving into a pokemon with intimidate (say, manectric skill swapped intimidate mega evolving) activate intimidate on mega evolving?
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
That mechanic is exclusive to Diamond and Pearl (it doesn't happen even in our Gen 4 formats, which use the engine from Platinum onwards, where the glitch was removed)
It's odd that serebii mentions Hurricane having that same effect, though, because Hurricane is a gen 5 move.
 

Marty

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out of curiosity: would a pokemon with intimidate mega evolving into a pokemon with intimidate (say, manectric skill swapped intimidate mega evolving) activate intimidate on mega evolving?
Yep, that was actually one of the first things I wanted to test in Gen 6.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I had read it only happened during Primordial Sea. Somebody should probably test that if we haven't already.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
It doesn't happen anywhere or by any way. That was a Diamond and Pearl specific mechanic that wasn't even a mechanic, but a bug.
I realize it was a bug, but popular/interesting bugs have been known to be implemented as official features in later titles. There is no harm in testing it on the off chance Serebii was right.
 

Marty

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So i was watching some battle son twitch and i saw a user who had a leftovers on his arcanine, but it healed him 4 times instead of 1. I got a video linked, but my japanese is quite rusty, and it doesn;t really explain how the user does it, or how it is triggered, but if this is a thing, then i want to know how it works.

Link in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTkLLvqFwtA&app=desktop

I hope anyone could clear this up (ninetails get a heal multiple times in the video)
I asked about this on the #Showdown chat and got the turn by turn translated:

Note: nekodamashi is Fake Out
Code:
15:22 victini 1. Florges used protect
15:22 victini 2. Meinfoo used nekodamashi
15:22 DHR which is what
15:23 DHR fake out?
15:23 victini idk, I don't know how Japanese move names map to English ones
15:23 victini search bulbapedia or something
15:23 DHR im looking
15:24 DHR Its the name of a Sumo clap, so I assume it's fakeout
15:24 victini 3. Vulpix's dasshutsu button made it return
15:25 victini 4. Florges' symbiosis activates
15:26 victini and gives leftovers to Vulpix
15:26 victini uh
15:26 victini I meant ninetales
15:26 victini because I'm stupid
15:27 victini 5. Sent out hitmontop and intimidates foes
15:28 victini Garchomp used Sleep talk
15:28 victini but failed
15:28 victini 7. Opponent withdrew hitmontop
15:29 victini and sent out ninetales
15:29 victini 8. Florges used protect
15:29 victini but failed
15:30 victini 9. Meinshao used nekodamashi again
15:30 victini and failed
15:30 victini 10. Garchomp used sleep talk and failed
15:31 victini 11. Ninetales healed with leftovers
15:31 victini 12. Ninetales healed with leftovers
15:31 victini 13. Ninetales healed with leftovers
15:32 DHR Why did leftovers proc three times then
15:32 victini 14. Ninetales healed with leftovers
15:32 DHR four even
15:32 victini idk
15:32 victini The title is "Pokemon's multiple items bug"
15:33 DHR This is interesting, thankyou for the translation
victini goes by the name Kota on Showdown

It is likely some sort of mechanics bug/interaction between Eject Button, Leftovers, Florges and Sybiosis. I'll talk to one of the big mechanics guys about it later.
Good lord! I knew you could get an item from Symbiosis even when inactive from being switched out by Eject Button, but I never thought it was this bugged.

It's deceptively simple to get the bug going; all that's necessary is getting Eject Button to activate while a Symbiosis ally has an item. The Pokemon that had the Eject Button gets the item, and next time that Pokemon switches in, the item will be in some strange state where it seems to exist more than once.
Note: This only works during the time that Pokemon stays active upon switching back in. If you switch it out later, the item goes back to normal.
  • Absorb Bulb activates twice (and presumably Cell Battery, Luminous Moss, and Snowball too)
  • Berries that raise stats activate twice (eg. Liechi and Maranga)
  • Berries that restore HP activate twice (even if the initial activation brings your HP out of the normal range for the Berry's activation)
  • Black Sludge activates twice (both for Poison types and non-Poison types)
  • Deep Sea Scale and Light Ball have double their effects (4x) (!) (and presumably the other species items too)
  • Eviolite has double its effects (2.25x) (!)
  • Leftovers activates up to 4 times, as seen in the video
  • Life Orb activates twice, which doubles the effect (1.69x) and doubles the recoil (10% twice) (!)
  • Rocky Helmet damages the attacker twice (!)
  • Type-boosting items (Silk Scarf and friends, plus Plates) have double the effect (1.44x)
  • Weakness Policy activates twice (!)
That's all I've tested so far, but I think it gives a pretty good idea of how absurdly broken this is. I hope this is patched or fixed in the next game(s), because implementing this on PS would be an absolute pain in the ass. I won't hold by breath though.

It's also worth noting that Leftovers is the only item I've seen activate 4 times; even Black Sludge only activates twice. Oh, and Bug Bite and Pluck don't benefit from eating a "doubled" Berry, it just works normally.

Edit:
  • Choice items and Assault Vest have double the effect (2.25x)
  • Scope Lens has double the effect (+2 crit stages, or 50% crit rate on normal moves)
  • Normal Gem does not activate twice
  • Float Stone doubles its effect (quartering weight)
  • Shell Bell activates twice per hit
  • Type-resist Berries double their effects (quartering damage taken)
  • Leppa Berry does not activate twice
  • Quick Claw does not have separate chances to activate, but shows the message twice when it does
  • Starf Berry activates twice, and can roll a different stat the second time
  • Big Root doubles its effect (1.69x rounded half down; eg. draining 11 HP restores 19 HP, not the 18 HP it would be if it were 1.3x rounded half down twice)

Important note on HP-checking Berries: If, when you switch back in, your HP is already in range for the Berry to activate (and Unnerve is not preventing you from eating it), it will activate immediately as usual, but only once.
 
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If this becomes the new meta, i am really curious how the crowd and commentators would react if this was being used in the top tier VGC tournaments lol. The whole audience is like...Wait, wait, WHAAAT? xD

Also, a little curious, if a pokemon would have the harvest ability, will it get the berry usage twice or once with that glitch?
 

Marty

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If this becomes the new meta, i am really curious how the crowd and commentators would react if this was being used in the top tier VGC tournaments lol. The whole audience is like...Wait, wait, WHAAAT? xD

Also, a little curious, if a pokemon would have the harvest ability, will it get the berry usage twice or once with that glitch?
Nope, once an item has been removed somehow (either by using it or getting Knocked Off, etc), the bug ends.
 
i think i know why leftovers give 4x recovery and all other items won't.

Leftovers work on any pokemon (unlike items like black sludge) and leftovers thinks it is still equipped to the pokemon it had equipped previously, so leftovers heals twice, thinking it still needs to heal the previous user, hence the double heal per activation.

only logical explanation i can think of.
 

breh

強いだね
will poison types with symbiosis make black sludge heal 4 times? I don't think black sludge damages four times, either.
 

Marty

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will poison types with symbiosis make black sludge heal 4 times? I don't think black sludge damages four times, either.
Nope, Black Sludge only ever heals twice, no matter the type of the Symbiosis Pokemon.

WarWeeny, I would appreciate if you didn't go around claiming other people's research as your own. That's really shameful. Either link to this thread or tell people where you found the information.
Edit: Nice try editing your post, but Google does cache pages you know. I'm not sure pretending it didn't happen is any better...
 
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I hadn't realized this was being tested here until yesterday, but I independantly did some testing for Bulbapedia. Looks like most of the stuff I tested was also covered here, but here's the few that weren't:
  • Destiny Knot activates twice (in most cases, this just means the second time a message stating it failed appears; if the other Pokemon is holding a Mental Herb, it will use it, then be infatuated again)
  • Air Balloon will display the floating message twice, but only display the popped message once.
  • Power Herb displays the activation message twice.

I've also got a list of items that still need testing on the Bulbapedia page.
 

Marty

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Ah yes, I forgot about Destiny Knot, thanks for sharing those results SnorlaxMonster!

I actually tested Lansat right after Starf, even though I knew what to expect. It only activates once since a Pokemon can only have one Focus Energy effect at a time. It's likely also why Gems don't activate multiple times; using a Gem and immediately getting the same type Gem from Symbiosis doesn't also activate that one.

Metronome does boost damage twice (you were right, breh !) Here are the results from two trials:
Code:
(hit) damage	| expected	| actual
----------------------------------------------------
(1) 36, 36	| 1x		| 1x

(2) 52, 48	| 1.44x		| 1.444x, 1.333x

(3) 71, 65	| 1.96x		| 1.97222x, 1.80555x

(4) 79, 92	| 2.56x		| 2.19444x, 2.555x

(5) 117, 110	| 3.24x		| 3.25x, 3.0555x

(6) 132, 144	| 4x		| 3.666x, 4x

(7) 136, 124	| 4x		| 3.777x, 3.444x
Damage variation explains the large difference between some of the hits. For example, this is the damage calc at +6 Attack, which lines up nicely with maxed double Metronome damage:
(121, 123, 124, 126, 127, 129, 130, 132, 133, 135, 136, 138, 139, 141, 142, 144)

I have no doubt Expert Belt, Muscle Band, and Wise Glasses behave the same way as the other damage and power boosting items, but I haven't verified them yet. King's Rock/Razor Fang and Bright Powder/Lax Incense are on the back burner right now since I'm not really up for doing hundreds of trials any time soon. Jaboca/Rowap would be simple, but unfortunately I don't have either.
 
Idk if this is the right place to ask this( I'm new to the site), but this crossed my mind. Do moves like siesmic toss and dragon rage and moves that have their damage locked, do they get a stab boost? I thought about it because my primeape on FireRed has seismic toss.
 
Should psycho shift bypass magic bounce? My absol mega'd on the same turn sigilyph used psycho shift and got burned but I don't know if this is a bug or not.
 

Merritt

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Psycho Shift is not affected by magic coat, so it should not be affected by magic bounce.

e: other sources are confirming that it's not bounced by magic bounce either, but I can go test it now too

e2: Oh I forgot to update this. Tested it, psycho shift is not bounced.
 
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Should psycho shift bypass magic bounce? My absol mega'd on the same turn sigilyph used psycho shift and got burned but I don't know if this is a bug or not.
Psycho Shift is not affected by magic coat, so it should not be affected by magic bounce.

e: other sources are confirming that it's not bounced by magic bounce either, but I can go test it now too

e2: Oh I forgot to update this. Tested it, psycho shift is not bounced.
Peculiar. I'm curious to see what the cause of this was.
 
If you send a ditto holding, for example, Charizardite X out on a regular Charizard, will you be able to Mega Evolve ditto the following turn?
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
If you send a ditto holding, for example, Charizardite X out on a regular Charizard, will you be able to Mega Evolve ditto the following turn?
I don't think it works based off of what I know, but I cannot test it myself right now to double check.
 

Delta 2777

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If a Pokemon gets a boost from Flash Fire, but then loses its ability from Mummy, skill swap, gastro acid, etc. does it still keep the boost?
 

cant say

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Hey so DragonWhale brought to my attention that the Japanese Battle Spot community discovered that Secret Power's paralysis chance doesn't roll twice with Kangaskhan's Parental Bond (much like how it doesn't get boosted by Serene Grace). NOVED and I tested ingame and got 8 paralysis procs with 30 attempts, and every one was after the second hit.

V3QG-WWWW-WW3B-KS4W

This was our second battle which had 5 paras from 20 tries, our previous battle was 3 from 10. Every single one was after the second hit. This contradicts with PS!'s mechanics where Secret Power rolls on each hit and para's on the first hit if successful:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/customgame-313102612

This is unique to Secret Power (we tested with Fire Blast immediately after and it burned on the first hit of the first turn lol), so it must have to do with Secret Power's fixed 30% chance that was discovered in BW in conjunction with Serene Grace.
 

breh

強いだね
do secret power double effects in general (i.e. grassy terrain sleep etc.) also fail to double effect as well?
 

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