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Triple Battle Spot Triples

Discussion in 'Battle Spot' started by MythTrainerInfinity, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. Kashinn

    Kashinn

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    I do remember encountering a few teams that lead with Meowstic/Klefki, which almost begs for an Eject Button. I haven't seen teams that used it with much success nor would I imagine it could consistently, but it could probably do well against the players that need more experience which are usually at the lower end of the ranks that still struggle with dual screens. There's really no special approach needed when the opponent is using Safeguard/Swagger, especially when that's already taking up two slots out on the field utilizing Prankster. It'd be a different case if they could be effective hitters as well though like Prankster Tornadus which also has access to Heat Wave via BW2 Move Tutor.
  2. SionReaver

    SionReaver

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    Hm, all right I'll explain the best I can and my thought process behind it. As for Meowstic, I'm actually liking it more due to the lack of fire/ground weakness so I'm going to be training one up.

    The initial idea for the team was "can I take a few Pokemon I like and work something around it?" That's the first part, much harder part then after is team synergy which I'm still stumbling along as I go to see what works. While my personal philosophy is to have fun with it, I think there should still be some thought behind the team and not just slapping favorites on and calling it a day. Rapidash and Seaking are some of those, but I realized they simply just don't hit hard enough on their own which is how the Safeswag idea came into the works. Most of my team is rather frail as well, so I opted to find something else I like that has Tailwind and hits hard when that job is done. That's how Braviary came in. So a brief excerpt on each.

    Rapidash (Likely to be replaced with Arcanine)

    There's not much to say about him; he's very straight forward. After Swagger takes effect, he can hit things reasonably hard. Since people loved to hit Klefki with fire moves, I can usually get a safe switch after wards. Without Swagger, he doesn't hit nearly hard enough unless whatever he's against is already weak to fire. On that note, Mega Aggron I had no idea was so buff; they took a plus two Fire Blitz and it did at most a bit more then half or so.

    Like plenty much all the team mates, he's frail so its kill or be killed. I was thinking of replacing them with a Arcanine, not only do they hit a lot harder off the bat but they have a lot more bulk. That, and they get priority. In triples most Pokemon get their lives destroyed in one or two hits anyway unless your name is Cresslia. Morning Sun was suppose to be for healing, but considering frailness may be better to replace with something else like Wild Charge.
    Braviary

    My primary tailwind setter. And Defiant I've found is incredibly useful since a lot of people like to run intimidate. They don't even need swagger most of the time to kill things unless something is really bulky. Brave Bird cuts its life really short though. That was the main reason for Roost, just to keep it a live a bit longer. However, that doesn't work out like it should most of the time so Rock Slide over Roost sounds better. As I'm learning as I go, he simply doesn't have the bulk and people gang up on him to kill them quickly.

    Focus Sash was to ensure Tailwind, but I honestly think I need a different Tailwind user since a lot of times he uses it, then dies as people have a habit of ganging up on it. Aerodocatyl might be better at that job, its a lot faster even if it doesn't hit as hard and its best flying move is Fly which is a two turn move. It also has things like the Elemental Fangs and Earhquake so that's something to consider on my part.

    Talonflame apparently hates the poor guys guts because they always go after them.

    Klefki N/A will replace with a Meowstic soon. The idea is obvious to boost the physical attackers that need it the most. The screens also boost their overall bulk a bit. In Doubles/Triples I know its nerfed but not sure how much. Also, Safeguard is good for things like Dark Void spam and other statuses. Getting paralyzed or burned would be the kiss of death for many of the team members. There's also the fact Meowstic also learns Trick Room if I want a way to reset it when encountering those teams.

    I lost a match with a scarfed Dark Void Smeargle not too long ago, but I'm not even salty about it. The lead made it obvious that the Fake Out was coming on my Klefki so I could have trusted my gut, double protected and withdrew them so I could safely put Safeguard. Ever since that and others I've gained more bias towards Safeguard.

    Seaking

    I wanted a water type, and going by the original idea I began scanning around Serbii for stats, move pool and abilities. Originally, I thought I was being clever and put a Weakness Policy on it, bait the lighting attack..only for nothing to happen. Doesn't work with Lighting Rod apparently as I found out the hard way, which sucks.

    Aqua Tail with STAB hits decently harder after a boost, Mega Horn is for things that resist water and since its super effective against something's and has more base power then Return I figured why not? Plus it hurts Cresslia. Protect is on there for obvious reasons. Agility..I'm unsure about. On one hand it has helped when I gotten the chance to set up(doesn't happen often Triples since its so fast paced) but on the other, I kinda feel a Ice Beam would be better for things like Garchomp and Landorus after the special attack boost. A lot of times it saved my Braviary from certain doom from a Rotom-W on the incoming T-bolt.

    I've considered Swampert as a replacement or Kingler both are water types and they both get Wide Guard. I think it blocks stuff like Dark Void, at the least Heat Wave/Rock/EarthQuake Spam so that's a thing. Kingler has good physical defense but doesn't have special to save its life so likely the former. That and the necessity to run Protect on everything in this meta kinda makes it suffer more from Four Move Slot Syndrome.

    Medichan

    I love this dude. He's not the fastest but man does he hit hard. They are probably the MVP of my team as they don't ever need the boost most times unless I really want to one-shot something but not sure if it will or not. Ice Punch is for dragons like Garchomp or Dragonite(I haven't really seen much of the later honestly) High Jump Kick and Zenheabutt are just STAB moves. The later is really only useful for killing fighting types, the first does a good job of murdering things like Heatran..when it doesn't miss.

    I think he's more or less fine on this one.

    Whimiscot N/A

    After thinking of what Kashinn said, having two Tailwind users along with Prankster may not be the best idea considering my team's make up. Though I'm kinda at a loss of what other Tailwind users I can use if I replace Tailwind on Braviary with Rock Slide or something. Since I like using more lesser used Pokemon on average I'll have to chew on it a bit longer. There's also the fact things that sound good on paper aren't so much in practice as I've learned.

    If anyone has any suggestions for lesser-used Tailwind users I'm all ears.

    On a side note team's main weaknesses I've noted:

    -Frail, requires set up for some members before they get going

    -They hate Talonflame who snipes at the weaker links when they're weakened.

    -Moves that hit the entire party such as Earthquake

    -Trick Room
  3. Kashinn

    Kashinn

    Joined:
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    First I'll comment on the bolded individuals where needed, then I'll get into how I interpreted your ideas and comment on that.

    Rapidash
    It seems like Rapidash is highly dependant on either Swagger or Flash Fire where it otherwise under-performs. Setups that boosts only one member is often times not desirable, but if you do decide to leave that open as an available option you should make sure that it can do a sufficient job even without the boost.

    Braviary
    The main reason the gang-up happens here is because your opponent may not find your other members sent out really threatening, which tends to happen sometimes if you have two Pranksters out that aren't attackers thereby leaving you with one attacker. Aerodactyl does do a quick Tailwind and isn't always expected coming from it, nor is its use of Wide Guard which takes care of incoming Rock Slides etc. At the same time it's not expected because it takes up moves that could be something else instead. Its Tailwind is defeated by things faster which includes scarfs, rain teams, and chlorophyll-sleep where Talonflame's +1 priority Tailwind may have more successful executions. Consider Wide Lens + Stone Edge for a rock attack on Aerodactyl if you were going to give it Rock Slide. This is because if the opposing team has a Wide Guard user out (which should be recognizable) and you've sent out Aerodactyl, chances are that they'll think a Rock Slide may be coming in. Aerodactyl should probably have one more attack and Protect is obvious. I'd lean towards Talonflame but since you want an uncommon Tailwind user Aerodactyl is an option. It could also knock out Noivern at a Jolly nature before the opposing Noivern can use its Tailwind.

    Klefki
    1/3rd rather than 1/2 in Doubles and Triples. Sticking to only one screen instead of two is also something to consider, which opens up options for other things like Quick Guard, Thunder Wave, Fake Out. Reflect is probably a good screen to stick with.

    Seaking
    Consider leaning towards consistency over situational-benefits. You'll want to have options that can be utilized across most battles rather than waiting for a specific encounter. Swampert hits very well with Avalanche, Earthquake, and Hammer Arm. You'll want Protect on it, so if you want to give it Wide Guard you'd have to give something up. You probably wouldn't use Earthquake with your team composition though outside of Protect/Braviary, if you know your adjacent partner is going to faint prior to the Earthquake, or weighed sacrifice. Rock Slide is also an option if you're having difficulty with things like Charizard Y and Talonflame but I'd stick with Avalanche and throw in Life Orb. Waterfall can be another option but only if you feel that you'd need it which I don't think you would.

    Trick Room difficulty
    Imprison for reliability over Taunt when there are multiple Trick Room users out, though it takes up two slots. Gardevoir is a good option for this. For opponents that bring out two Trick Room users you could alternatively have two Taunt users.



    Wanting to use only your favorite Pokemon can sometimes be difficult to work around, but this is what I like to do as well for some of my teams. This only gets tougher when you have a fixed selection of the Pokemon you want to use, and you're trying to formulate an idea from it when the other way around would be a lot better to work with. What you've got here are ideas that usually don't complement each other too well. Let's go over again on these ideas and the ones your team relies on to work effectively:
    • Safeguard/Swagger: Self-boosting
    • Tailwind: Team-boosting (Reliant)
    • Screens: Team-boosting
    • Flash Fire/Lightning Rod: Baited-boosting (Reliant)
    Remember that even if there are three slots, your opponent will be utilizing their three slots as well. Executing Tailwind takes up one slot, so you're left with 2 to deal with the opponent. Safeguard/Swagger is a 2-turn here, so that's another slot and depends on surviving. Even though your team may not rely on Safeguard/Swagger most of your team relies on the Tailwind to avoid fainting so chances are that if you ever choose to use the Safeguard/Swagger it would be used on the same turn as Tailwind. Tailwind is usually accompanied by unboosted heavy hitters or as an extra for already fast teams that may need the extra boost (something to consider?). Your two reliants can work together but I've already mentioned the issue with relying on baited-boosts rather than having it just on the side. The screens option is more flexible. When reworking your team, think about complementary ideas and play out the scenarios cognitively.
  4. SionReaver

    SionReaver

    Joined:
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    I'm going to simply upload a battle or two I had in triples here as well. First two is more my old team then the others you notice a change as I start to smooth things out a bit. Very first one is of my old team I talked about here against a Trick Room team but I actually won in the end despite my Trick Room weakness.

    Y5FW-WWWW-WWW5-S6ZS

    ZKCW-WWWW-WWW5-U584

    F8WG-WWWW-WWW6-XYGA

    DERW-WWWW-WW6-XYG6

    PN2W-WWWW-WWW6-4NEZ

    There's other things I'm experimenting with, but I feel I'm slowly getting the hang of things. I think a large part of it is I'm getting a better idea of how some Pokemon work in the meta and the common move sets. Ever since just testing Wide Guard, I can't believe how I've gone through so many battles with out it. It's been infinitely useful from things like Heat Wave and Quake spam. Quick Guard is very useful, not only for Talon Flame but for Fake Out users which causes them to waste a turn while other party members move.

    I made two bad plays in one of those battles, one is not going for Aqua Jet in one and another misclicking and using a water move on something that has Water Absorb. Among a few other things.

    Kashinn and MythtrainerIfnitity, would either of you care for a triple battle one of these days with me? Could learn a lot from it, if nothing else could be fun.
  5. Kashinn

    Kashinn

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    Of course, I'll be more than happy to have a battle with you. I will be available for a scheduled time slot anywhere between 7:30PM - 11:30PM EST tonight. If you want to schedule for tomorrow that may be a bit more difficult depending on how my plans go. FC will be sent in a moment, I just need to pick out a 3DS.
  6. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

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    2363 - 5671 - 9607

    Lemme know when ya wanna do this thing and I'll be happy to play. The same goes for anyone else who wants to do the triples tango.

    I'll be happy to critique your team afterwards too.
  7. SionReaver

    SionReaver

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    2423-3174-9665

    Is mine. I go by Ace and the trainer in game name is Ryan. I really wish there was a way to change the tag but I'll deal. I'll be around from here to 1 in the morning on my end, same tomorrow and the next day pretty much all this week. I have pacific Time Zone, Calfornia. Just shoot me a PM when you're ready since it goes to my mail while I'm on.

    On a side note, has anyone tried the different terrains? They seem mostly useless at a glance but at least they seem easier to set up in this kind of format. If Misty Terrain actually protected targets off the ground and from confusion I'd take it over safeguard(and didn't protect the enemies too) Grassy seems like it could backfire potentially, electric is interesting but I think its more hurt by its bad distribution. Not enough Pokemon learn it, and those who do are electric/steel types which is sort of asking for a earthquake.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
  8. West

    West

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    About Serene Grace Rock Slide abuse, would it be worth it to give up a turn to use Fire/Water Pledges which is said to double the effect chance friendly moves. It seriously limits your team choices; but we're talking about four free turns here.

    EDIT: Just found out it doesn't stack with Serene Grace, but it opens up doors to Aerodactyl/Archeops for this kind of abuse
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  9. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

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    Edit: Ahhhh wrong thread.

    Um, let's see. Heatran is obnoxious... What do you guys do against the Trick Room spam with that thing?
  10. West

    West

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    Priority Water+Fire Pledge seems to one hit it down when coming from anything stronger than Greninja.

    I have just started playing ranked matches yesterday and I'm already the second best player in Greece! (I haven't even hit 1600 yet lol and most of my team isn't Triple Battle viable) Just some quick notes:
    • Rock Slide Blissey is much fun and I'd love to see how a Pledge-boosted Aerodactyl plays
    • Meowstic is invaluable with quick guard and some lucky priority Assists really help
    • Talonflame is OP even with only a Sky Plate. I can't wait to be able to actually afford a Choice Band. I should also get Aerial Ace on it which is also a cool, stronger, never-missing Quick Attack which helps with some specific issues
    • Sucker Punch is fun
    • I may need more strong sniping Pokemon, priority users and some more Rock Slide support
    The most annoying team I've faced yet had a minimize/FollowMe Clefairy I foolishly let set up which would cause some serious problems if not for Rock Slide and my attackers being M-Kanga and Talonflame
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  11. ethan06

    ethan06

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    I was talking with one of my local Pokémon buddies today about Mega Kang, and he'd been experimenting with mixed Kang, in an attempt to get extra freezes and burns with Ice Beam and Fire Blast. If he's right, and Parental Bond really does work like a pseudo-Serene Grace, then with the Pledge in effect Rock Slide reaches a 40% chance to cause a flinch on every Pokémon it hits (36% when factoring accuracy). Which is potentially brutal, especially if it has two teammates spamming Rock Slide as well. Here's what I was thinking (Kang in the centre):

    Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
    Fake Out/Rock Slide/Protect/Stomp (30% flinch chance and STAB)

    ----
    Greninja @ Expert Belt or something idk
    Mat Block/U-Turn/Rock Slide/Water Pledge

    ----
    Blaziken @ Focus Sash
    Protect/Fire Pledge/Rock Slide/filler (Bulldoze? Low Kick? Swords Dance?)

    Potentially very trolly with all the flinch spam. Probably quite difficult to get going though, and it would appreciate Tailwind support. Y/N?
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  12. stonerchris

    stonerchris
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    I see a lot of people use volcarona, how often do you run into stealth rock in 3v3? Seems whenever I want to use something that's got a SR weakness, suddenly every team I face has it. I don't really want to waste a moveslot to have rapid spin or defog just for this situation though. How often are the rest of you encountering stealth rock or even spikes on battle spot?
  13. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

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    I see SR/entry hazards in Triples really infrequently. Possibly once every 10-20 battles or less.

    There are so many better things to do than to SR in Triples.
  14. West

    West

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    Here's my embarrassing loss against ryou, both outplayed and outteamed, the current no.6 in singles world ranking (forgetting to pick a move with Meowstic T2 didn't help)

    WHBW-WWWW-WWW6-SVNS
  15. West

    West

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    I like this idea, but I'd personally pack something more durable than Greninja, seeing how it is both Fake Out bait and Blaziken being Talonflame bait (which Water Pledge takes cares of while outspeeding after a Speed Boost) while also being very fast. Empoleon might be a better idea with Defiant and Aqua Jet, which has priority even when not combined with Fire Pledge.
    ethan06 likes this.
  16. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

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    The Pledges do not have priority, they just go after one another. If you really wanna lol at Talonflame with Blaziken's Rock Slide you'll need to use Quick Guard on something...
  17. FogHorn

    FogHorn

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    This seems like a fun tier to get into. How similar is this tier to doubles since I have played my fair share of that, but have never really gotten into triples.

    Also is there any chance of this tier every getting a spot on Showdown?
  18. Feliburn

    Feliburn

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    Well kinda late but it did lol
  19. Whiskey Tango

    Whiskey Tango

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    "Format." Not "tier." I don't know why, but that really gets me. A "format" is one of five or six base rulesets/structurally different games you can play in Pokemon. A "tier" usually refers one of Smogon's restricted metagames based on tiering different Pokemon together (which is the actual "tier"), but the format they're played in is singles.

    At any rate, yes. There's a ladder on Showdown for Battle Spot triples and ... Smogon Triples for some reason. I don't know what the difference there is except you probably can't use Dark Void or Moody and maybe they have Keldeo and things.

    Triples is similar to doubles in terms of team structure and roles; i.e. in that you have support Pokemon, etc. So, yeah. That familiarity will help a lot when building your first team, and if you're so inclined you can even put together a slap-dash team of doubles Pokemon to try it on Wi-Fi.

    There are some differences though, mainly just in terms of what's effective. Games can go a lot faster with three Pokemon out on each side; effects like Intimidate can potentially neuter three Pokemon at once (which is why Hitmontop is so damn good here, in addition to getting Fake Out, Wide Guard, Quick Guard and Feint), spread moves and field effects are even more powerful, and you can have support coming from two Pokemon at once. Double Fake Out is definitely a thing here while the third Pokemon sets something up.

    You also have an extra option: the ability to have a Pokemon "shift" to the middle spot and use up its turn in doing so. This will play out whenever the Pokemon normally would've moved (so, according to speed). It's not a large part of the game; many matches go by without shifting, but it is something unique to the format. Learning when to shift a Pokemon at a key moment can sometimes mean the difference in the late game.

    I think it's arguably even more fun than doubles and would probably dive into more seriously were it not for doubles being the official, and potentially more balanced, format. Definitely give it a try.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2014
    Age of Kings, EnGarde and Feliburn like this.
  20. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

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    I personally like Triples a bit more than Doubles because of less Mega Kang tomfoolery to be honest.

    There's so much chaos that goes on in Triples... It is so much fun. I strongly encourage anyone to just fool around in any ruleset with this format and tell me it isn't interesting in the very least.
    Feliburn and ethan06 like this.
  21. Feliburn

    Feliburn

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    Yeah out of the three I enjoy playing triples the most, there are some unexpected combinations on the PS! triples ladder, way more interesting than just enountering mega kang and talonflame in every single match.
  22. Pyritie

    Pyritie

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    http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-triples.3511522/
  23. NOVED

    NOVED

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    Imo, we should discuss viability rankings in this thread. It could actually promote more discussion for triples and having a list of what's good and what isn't here can make triples a bit more popular and easier for new triples players to get into the format.
    Age of Kings and Feliburn like this.
  24. Feliburn

    Feliburn

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    Agreed!
  25. EnGarde

    EnGarde Hope will never die!
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    I believe the mods are planning to make specific viability ranking threads for each format, including triples. However, they are staggering when they are being made in order to allow us to focus on each format in turn. So, triples is coming! :)

    Also, Hulavuta and Age of Kings, please correct me if I'm wrong (and you're not on a camping trip). :P

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