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Battle Tree Discussion and Records

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by NoCheese, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. Coeur7

    Coeur7

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    73
    Reporting a finished streak of 308 in Doubles. The team is derived from Super Maunzi Island (which I had hoped to surpass), which is in turn derived from Level 51's Phero/Lele team, which is an idea that goes back to turskain.

    Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
    252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Moonblast
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Taunt

    Taunt takes better care of potential TR setters (Jellicent, Aromatisse), but set ambiguity makes this a risk -- whether or not you Taunt Slowbro2 (this was "3", I'm terrible at memorizing which set goes by which number), it will most likely use Flamethrower on Pheromosa anyway. Nonetheless, I've never found myself wishing for any coverage move in the last slot. You better have a good reason not to lock into Psychic. 252+ speed overtakes Terrakion2, which I considered useful.

    Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
    236 Spd / 252 Atk / 20 SAtk
    Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk) (obviously bad, see below)
    - Low Kick
    - Lunge
    - Ice Beam
    - Protect

    236 Spd outruns the 130 base +Spd crew. I don't care about Skarmory3. Nor do I care about natures enough; I had to get Pheromosa off the GTS, and this was the best I could find. For the sake of your sanity, use Lonely or Naughty.

    In magical goldfish land, Pheromosa and Tapu Lele work together to create 2v1 fields, with Pheromosa buying free turns for Lele by Protecting twice and hanging on by its sash once, double-targetting to pick up +1 from Beast Boost as convenient (+1 is important, +2 much less so). The -1 Atk from Lunge can be useful against Gyarados leads that could be either of set3/4.

    On that note: Alakazam3 alone is a sufficient reason to make +Spd Pheromosa viable.

    Salamence @ Salamencite
    20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spd
    Jolly (+Spd, -SAtk)
    Intimidate
    - Return
    - Double-Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Protect

    Return and Double-Edge? For me, it was a welcome flexibility. Especially when double-targetting, Mence would rather avoid recoil. Then again, sometimes you need the added power. There's rarely any time to Roost, since with the frailty of the leads, taking a turn to regenerate would probably lose the second one as well as the one Mence has switched in for -- switching Mence into attacks is rather dangerous, and does not happen often with this team; when it does, the reason might more likely be Intimidate greatly increasing Lele's chance to survive a neutral physical hit aimed at it, or to preserve 1 HP Pheromosa which has already used Protect last turn for an anticipated good match-up while a faster threat is still on the field besides it.

    20 HP survives Lopunny34 non-crit Ice Punch when they're not affected by Intimidate, and equivalents (4 HP / 12 Def / 4 SDef also does, but I'd rather increase special bulk a bit more).

    Aegislash @ Ghostium Z
    252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet (+SAtk, -Spd)
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - King's Shield
    - Wide Guard
    - Shadow Ball
    - Flash Cannon

    Use it wisely.

    Neverending Nightmare deals 72-85% to Zapdos2, which is your main out against that beast once it's been injured (don't use the Z-move first), but it will move before you do. The move it will pick is Roost.

    This is also your main out against Mawile34 (always an OHKO), which is threatening to all other three. Switch Lele -> Aegi immediately if that leads, and consider using Lunge on it (Low Kick does nothing significant).

    There might be a better EV spread -- an SDef bias could go better with Intimidate, and the most threatening physical attacks preferably aimed at Aegi are Flare Blitz (against which there is King's Shield) and Earthquake (against which there is Wide Guard).

    Videos

    #254, vs Carbink/Wishiwashi/Aggron/Gothitelle -- Not too interesting, but shows Carbink4 aiming Psychic (90 BP, Psychic Terrain) rather than the technically stronger Moonblast (95 BP, STAB) at Pheromosa. Both are OHKOs, of course -- that's where the computer's selection might stop discriminating between moves. PQPW-WWWW-WWW9-ME86
    #277, vs Walrein/Arcanine/Blissey/Toucannon -- Walrein4 opens with a connecting Fissure on Lele; had I double-targetted on T1 and missed once, just as I missed my second attack against it on T2, my position would have been worse with Arcanine uninjured -- I went by the absolute worst-case scenario in choosing to hit both leads. I think I should have targetted Walrein with Mence on T3, not Toucannon. A burned Mence and Aegi ultimately face off against Blissey4; as soon as that comes out, I know I have to count its PP. None of its five non-blocked Mud Bombs miss, but at least none of them crit either, and I get lucky enough to avert disaster by a double King's Shield after I call it wrong on a Softboiled -- I think that the threshold for the computer to start healing itself (or use Healing Wish) must be near 66%. Firing that Flash Cannon into Blissey was a misplay in hindsight, since the chance of getting enough SDef drops / crits to get through was probably much lower than just accepting that it will fire five Mud Bombs and I have to hope for good rolls there -- eliminating Softboiled ambiguity would have been worth that. -- In the end, 17 HP Aegislash survives the Struggle battle against Blissey, and I manage to KS the first one exactly. Had I miscounted the PP, I might well have lost. TNZG-WWWW-WWW9-ME7T
    #300,vs Anabel, Latios23/Raikou1/Entei2/Alakazam3 -- I wrote about this live on Discord, might edit this in later -- but eoT2, I worried for a while that Anabel's next mon after knocking out Raikou would be Entei3, which would allow Alakazam3, if it was that set (it was), to Shadow Ball Aegislash into oblivion, ending all my hopes of winning. Ultimately, I decided I had to accept this. Note that Protecting Phero on T2 would have made the situation worse, since Raikou might have aimed TBolt at Lele switching into Aegislash, at which point it gets into KO range for non-critical Shadow Ball again, and Pheromosa doesn't help against Alakazam at all once its sash is broken.
    Note also that I didn't Protect Phero T1 in the event of Raikou turning out as either Electrium set (2/3 chance as there was no Air Balloon broadcast), which breaks the sash for no gain and, in the event of Latios1, will not net a double KO with Lunge/Psychic T2 -- although the chance of +1 SAtk Latios1 knocking Aegi into KO range for Shadow Ball is very slim (requires two high damage rolls), and a weakened Latios1 is dominated by Lele such that one would basically have a temporary 2v1 field advantage. Thus, perhaps, another misplay on my part. KL7G-WWWW-WWW9-ME7Z
    #309, Zapdos2 / --- / --- / --- ; guess what happens here. Note that Ice Beam's damage on T1 makes me suspect that non-Adamant Pheromosa would have allowed me to win this battle. I'm beyond caring about that now, though. HXXG-WWWW-WWW9-ME6L

    I might write more later, but I'm rather disappointed right now, having only met one of my goals (breaching 300) after that much time.

    I've attempted a few other streaks, including a 247 with Mence (which ran the weird Bulldoze over EQ to help Kartana outspeed everything after it baits attacks and protects T1, on occasion -- Kartana seemed never to need the higher damage from EQ, whereas a pseudo-speed boost would have been very welcome; so I tried that)/Kartana/Koko/Hariyama (Thick Fat Lum Berry with Fake Out / Wide Guard -- a Blizzard sponge, essentially), and 209 with Lope/Koko/Garchomp/Celesteela. I might also add reports on those, although play with those teams felt considerably shakier -- I wouldn't trust in their ability to reach the minimum goal of 200 (for the caliber of the team members involved, that is) consistently, unlike with Phero/Lele teams.

    Thanks for reading. Thanks also to the Discord crew -- good discussion makes this game that much more fun to play.

    A final note, which has nothing much to do with anything, more a curiosity for the end: The computer doesn't realize that Triage-boosted moves get blocked by Psychic Terrain against grounded targets (in my case, it was Draining Kiss from Comfey4 aimed at Pheromosa). The application of this fact is... narrow, but it made me wonder whether this was an oversight, since Prankster and Gale Wings -- which I should have seen at least once during my streak -- never made a computer move go awry in this way.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  2. lolnub

    lolnub

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    233
    Long time, no see huh. People who pay close attention to the discord, already know most of what I will talk about, but even for them there is a small surprise at the end of this report. However, let’s not talk too quickly and start at the beginning. Right after posting my 463 streak I decided to do what I said and decided to play through Moon and start the streak again so I would avoid stupid Sina (and to a lesser extent Plumeria). So I started and played to around the 150 mark before losing to TR. I think I misplayed a bit that battle and a bit frustrated I decided to try again. However, I again lost around 100, again to TR. At this point I began to doubt the viability of this team. It felt like the previous streak was a bit of a fluke. Because of this, I decided to try a few different teams, but nothing got higher than 150, which wasn’t good enough for my standards anymore. Now that I almost got to 500. I really wanted to also hit the 500. At one point around May, I was in the train and had my 3DS with me and wanted to play a bit of Tree. I decided to throw together a few mons from my boxes and it worked out pretty nicely and immediately felt good, so I decided to play some more. However, I didn’t really have much time at my hands, so the streak progressed slowly. Even during the holidays the streak didn’t get much attention from me. However, at the end of the holidays, I was around the 400 mark and I knew that the team had the possibility to get to my desired 500. At some point I decided to really push myself to play more than normal and get to the 500 as fast as possible, which I eventually did. Once hitting the 500 I decided to push myself and go as far as possible. At around the 800 mark, I even began to believe that reaching 1000 was possible. Unfortunately, my run was cut short by Rock Slide flinch, a Stealth Rock using Gigalith 4 and some suboptimal play by me.

    Reporting a streak of 821 in Super Doubles.

    Alright, I must admit. The team wasn’t as thrown together as I initially said. I didn’t just grab a few Pokemon from my box and ran with them. The team was actually based on a Multi’s Team my IRL friend MrMarc and I run that is at the moment at over 300 wins. That team used Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Salamence with in the back Aegislash (behind Kangaskhan) and Specs Tapu Fini (behind Salamence). This team works exceptionally well. Tapu Fini very good synergy with Mega Salamence, being able to switch into Dragon and Ice moves aimed at Salamence, and also providing Misty Terrain to protect itself and its team mates from status, which Mega Kangaskhan and aegislash also really like. However, in doubles you cannot run double mega so I either had to replace Mega Kangaskhan or Mega Salamence. I had already tried a few teams with Mega Kangaskhan and Tapu Fini, but it was pretty hard to build a solid team that was also fast enough. Therefore, I decided to try out Mega Salamence. Mega Salamence doesn’t benefit from Misty Terrain, and is even hindered as it cannot run dragon type moves for its coverage, but Tapu Fini can still be very good for the rest of the team because protection from status is just amazing in the Tree. This meant I had to switch up the Kangaskhan and Aegislash part of the team. In the Multi team, Kangaskhan had Power-Up-Punch to boost alongside Mega Salamence when Salamence knocked out foes with Hyper Voice. For this reason, I was looking for a different physical attacker that could also boost its attack. When looking through my boxes that day, my I fell on Kartana and I knew that this would be a perfect fit. With the help of Hyper Voice from Salamence, it can pick up easy OHKOs and start boosting its attack. It also greatly appreciates the protection from Misty Terrain. I now had 3/4 of the team ready and had to find the final member. When looking at the multi team again, I felt like Kartana had partly taken the role of Kangaskhan (boosting attacker) and partly that from Aegislash (Steel Type). However, Aegislash was also a very good tank, being able to switch in and take a ton of attacks. Kangaskhans Normal type was also very good, as it gave very strong neutral attacking power against a lot of threatening types (mostly electric and Fire types). So I was looking to combine their other parts of their role and found one in my box, Snorlax! With his gluttony ability and a super Berry he had an enormous amount of bulk and had the power to win against a lot of Pokemon. He also gave me a very strong answer to Trick Room, which would otherwise be a threat. So with this, the team was complete and I could start playing.

    Salamence,Kartana,Tapu Fini,Snorlax (open)

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Salamence @ Salamencite
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Hyper Voice
    - Double-Edge
    - Flamethrower
    - Protect

    This is the same Salamence that I used in my 478 streak and it still functions perfectly. Most of the time He is spamming Hyper Voice, chipping Pokemon to bring them into KO range for Kartana. Double edge was used when I really needed to KO something that Hyper Voice can’t, because even without Attack Investment, it still hits very hard. Flamethrower is for steel types and is simply the best coverage move. Thinking about it now, Tailwind could maybe replace this as this would allow Tapu fini to come in and with the speed advantage can win against an even greater amount of Pokemon.
    [​IMG]
    Kartana @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Leaf Blade
    - Sacred Sword
    - Smart Strike
    - Protect

    A super standard Focus Sash Kartana is probably the best fit for the Tree. Kartana is one of those Pokemon that hasn’t seen much use in the Tree, but it is pretty darn strong and with Beast Boost can become even stronger, allowing it to snowball the opposing team. Kartana can also reduce the amount of hax from the Tree, by having Sacred sword and Smart strike. They both provide an insurance against Double Team/Minimize users. Smart Strike also doesn’t care about Lax Incense/BrightPowder and Sacred Sword doesn’t care about defensive boosters (such as Registeel 1).
    [​IMG]
    Tapu Fini @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Misty Surge
    EVs: 164 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 84 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Moonblast
    - Scald
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Ice Beam

    Probably the star of the team. When starting this streak around May, Tapu Fini was hardly used in the Battle Tree, as most people choose Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele as their Tapu of choice, as they hit extremely hard with their STAB move boosted by the Terrain. However, even though Misty Terrain doesn’t provide Tapu Fini with extra damage, it can be argued to be the best Terrain in the Tree. Not having to worry about random freezes and Thunder Wave/Confusion spammers make this Terrain a godsend for anyone trying to get far in the Tree. The terrain allows Tapu Fini to freely switch in on the Ice Beams targeted at Salamence (or Blizzards), which would otherwise be an very big problem when leading with Salamence. The reduction in dragon type attacks is not very big, but is still very much appreciated by Snorlax, especially when switching in against Specs Latios locked in Draco Meteor.
    I decided to run Specs Fini to compensate for its lacklustre attacking power. With the Choice Specs Tapu Fini hits pretty hard and KOs everything it needs to KO (such as Mega Latios). The moves of Specs Tapu Fini are all very standard I think. Moonblast and Scald are the highest damaging Single target STAB moves. Dazzling Gleam is used as spread moves are always strong in Doubles. The last move chosen was a toss-up between Ice Beam and Grass Knot. In the end, I decided on Ice Beam to have a last resort answer for Zapdos and Thundurus, as Fini can survive most electric from them and KO the frailer versions with Ice Beam. Grass knot also seemed less usefull when already using Kartana.
    The EVspread was pretty simple. Tapu Fini isn’t that powerfull with only a base 95 SpA, so I decided that Maximum investment was required. Next I decided to look at the speed tiers. With 84 Speed EVs, it has 116 speed, which outspeeds the pretty crowded and dangerous 115 speedtier which includes Electivire 3/4, Leafeon 3 and drapion 4 among a few other less threatening Pokemon. Everything else was invested in HP with the last few invested in the defences to gain an extra stat point.
    [​IMG]
    Snorlax @ Iapapa Berry
    Ability: Gluttony
    EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Return
    - Earthquake
    - Crunch
    - Protect

    This is probably the weirdest Pokemon on the team. Snorlax was here to take random hits and especially for Dragon + Electric leads, such as Latios + Thundurus. These Pokemon are very hard to deal with for Salamence and Kartana, and Tapu Fini also doesn’t like Electric types obviously. Snorlax can stay in on these kind of Pokemon and 2HKO them. On the other hand, Snorlax is obviously weak to Fighting Types, which Salamence and Tapu Fini easily take care of, so the defensive synergy really goes both ways.
    The moveset is not really anything fancy. Return is just the best STAB move, 2HKOing a lot of Pokemon. Crunch and Earthquake provide coverage for things Return doesn’t hit (Steels, Rocks, Ghost). Protect is simply a standard move in doubles. I would have loved to run Recycle and/or Curse on this, but he simply doesn’t have space for those moves.
    The EVspread of this Snorlax was very random. I simply took a Snorlax from box and gave it the easiest to make EVspread that seemed at least a bit optimal. Snorlax doesn’t have the highest of Attack stats, so I knew I wanted to maximize it’s attack. After that I knew that Snorlax already has a very high HP stat and SpD stat, so for that reason I wanted to focus on its defense stat. Giving it full Defense investment was probably a bit suboptimal, so I went with the random 100 HP and 156 Defense Spread. This is definitely not optimal, but it was good enough.


    How to play (open)

    This team has 2 modes, which are used about as much. The first mode is simply firing of Hyper Voices with Salamence and letting Kartana pick on of Pokemon. From there, Kartana can Beast Boost his way to victory. The other mode is switching Salamence out for Tapu Fini on turn one, which mostly happens when there is a Pokemon that cannot be KOd by Kartana and Salamence and can hit Salamence with an Ice or Dragon Move. Another reason of switching is Salamence to Kartana is when there is a bulky Pokemon such as Cresselia or Regigigas on the field that often use status moves. There are also a lot of specific reasons for switching Salamence to Tapu Fini that are very lead dependent, but the 2 mentioned are by far the 2 most common occasions. Snorlax hardly ever switches in on turn 1 as Tapu Fini is already such a good switch-in for Salamence that it is hardly ever needed. I do switch him in quite a bit though after the Misty Terrain has been set.
    As you can see, I almost exclusively switch out Salamence for Tapu Fini and hardly ever switch in Kartana for Tapu Fini. The reason for this is the Kartanas only real worry are Fire types moves. Kartana can bait these moves for Salamence to hit them hard. Next turn I can simply Attack with Kartana and attack again with Salamence, which results in at least one KOd Pokemon, which means Kartana is at worst hanging on to his Focus Sash. This simply improvise his baiting power, giving Salamence another free turn.


    Threats (open)

    Electric Types: Electric Types are just no fun. Salamence has a hard time damaging them, Kartana is outsped by a lot of them (Jolteon, Electrode, Raikou) and Tapu Fini is obviously weak to them. I do often try to bring in Tapu Fini and Snorlax in as soon as possible. Tapu Fini is switched in to ensure that no paralyses happen, Snorlax is brought in as the only Pokemon that can safely damage them.
    Zapdos and Thundurus: I know these are also Electric types, but they deserve a special mention as even Kartana cannot hit them very hard (they resist all of Kartana’s moves). I handle them the same, by first switching in Tapu Fini and then Snorlax, but they amplify the need for Snorlax. When playing with this team I really though Zapdos 2 would be my doom, but I luckily hardly ever faced it and when I did, it didn’t dodge every single attack.
    Fast Rock Slide: This team is not very fast, with Salamence hitting 120 Base speed being the fastest. Salamence is also weak to Rock, which means Rock Sliders often also prefer to use this move. This can result in very scary situations in which I simply have to hope to not get flinched and have to quickly KO the them. Mega Sceptile and Greninja 3 are the main offenders, being Rock Sliders that also outspeed my entire team, but another important one is Archeops. Salamence outspeeds it, but it can hardly do anything in return, and was part of the reason I lost.


    Battle Videos (open)

    To be added


    After this streak I wasn’t done with the Tree just yet. It only amplified my motivation to play in the Tree. Before the team I just explained I had also tried to play with Mega Swampert. I even had a very long discussion with MrMarc about this team as he also really like Mega Swampert. We wanted to lead with Pelipper and Mega Swampert and were looking for 2 strong back-ups. The most problematic pokemon we identified for this lead were weather changers (such as Abomasnow), Trick Room, bulky Dragons, Grass and Waters and most importantly Swift Swimmers, especially Kingdra and Ludicolo. We were also looking for something else that would be immune to Earthquake, to give Swampert a second mon It could Earthquake next to.
    We knew we wanted a Steel type to deal with Trick Room, and the bulky Dragons and Grass part. This would thus be either Aegislash or Scizor, both having their pros and cons. Scizor has priority and can deal with the Grass types better, but is also much frailer. Aegislash has much more bulk, but has no priority except for Shadow Sneak, which is pretty hard to use in Doubles for obvious reasons. Also, Aegislash really wants the Z-Move, whereas Scizor can also simply run a Life Orb. We also briefly considered Metagross, but its coverage was simply lacking/overlapping to much with Mega Swampert to really seem worthwhile.
    From there on, we wanted a Pokemon that was very good at disposing opposing Water Pokemon and preferably immune to Earthquake. The most obvious Pokemon that could do this would be Zapdos/Thundurus-T. Running an Electric type would even allow us to use Thunder and Thundurus-T would give us a switch in to Electric Types for Pelipper. However, when we annalyzed it a bit more, Swift Swim Pokemon seemed like too much of a threat for this kind of team, so we decided to look a bit further and in the end we decided to use Ludicolo. It doesn’t have the Electric immunity, nor is immune to Earthquake, but it does give us a second Swift Swim Pokemon. We decided to use Grassium Z, as it could heavily dent Kingdra and Ludicolo with it, bringing them in Bullet Punch KO range for Scizor. Yeah, as soon as we decided on Ludicolo with Grassium Z, we knew we wanted Scizor as it doesn’t need the Z-move. With this, the team was ready and we started to play. However, I soon lost at around 150. Mr. Marc got a bit further, almost hitting 300, but he also mentioned how the team was weak to Trick Room. After some time, we decided to shelf the idea.

    However, after losing my streak with my previous team, I decided to give Mega Swampert another look. Instead of leading with it, I decided to try it in the back. I also noticed how we completely forgot about another steel type, Celesteela, which amazed me. It has everything a the team could which for. A lot of bulk, an Ground immunity and its weaknesses are very nicely covered by Mega Swampert. For leads, I decided on Pelipper and Tapu Koko. However, I soon realized that again, the team was weak to the Swift Swimmers Ludicolo and Kingdra. As a result, I came back to Ludicolo as the answer for them. This also gave me Fake Out upfront, which is much better than Fake Out in the back. I guess I have rambled enough now and will jump into the team!

    Reporting a streak of 598 in Super Doubles.

    Pelipper,Ludicolo,Swampert,Celesteela (open)

    [​IMG]
    Pelipper @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Surf
    - Rain Dance
    - Protect

    The first Pokemon to consider when building a Rain team is a rain Setter. When you also want to use Mega Swampert, there really is only one Pokemon to use, and that is Pelipper. This Pokemon got heavily improved this generation with Drizzle and a boost in its Special Attack. The first move Pelipper should be given is Hurricane as it gives it a 110 STAB move that never misses in the rain. I also knew that I wanted to use it with a Focus Sash and Protect as Pelipper is pretty frail and has a few very common weaknesses. The last 2 moves are probably the more interesting choices and this team, but I will explain them. On the version with Mega Swampert as a lead, I simply ran Scald instead of Surf. However, now that I run Ludicolo, Surf became a very interesting option to boost Ludicolo’s Special Attack, just like the good old times in the Subway. Even after boosting Ludicolo’s Special Attack, having another strong spread move on the team is very helpful in a lot of situations. Lastly, we have the move Rain Dance. I think this is the only move Pelipper can run in this slot, but it has hardly been done, with the other Rain teams on the leaderbord opting for Tailwind. However, Tailwind really isn’t needed when running 2 Swift Swimmers already, so I decided to use Rain Dance to counteract opposing weather without having to switch out and back in. Pelipper is also Timid so when the rain is cancelled out, it can outspeed Ludicolo/Swampert and set up Rain Dance again before they attack. Outspeeding Ludicolo also gives me the option to Surf and afterwards attack with Ludicolo when another weather is active or, more commonly, when Cloud Nine is active. This is often very usefull, for instance for KOing Drampa 4.[​IMG]
    Ludicolo @ Absorb Bulb
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Energy Ball

    Good old Ludicolo with the Absorb Bulb bringing back memories of R Inanimates Subway team. However, Compared to his Ludicolo I did change half of its moveset, running Scald and Energy ball instead of Surf and Grass knot. Scald gives Ludicolo a strong water move that doesn’t hit my partner (which would break the Focus Sash of Pelipper), has a change to burn and also lets him unthaw from freezes. Scald also does more damage to a single target than Surf. Energy ball is ran instead of Grass Knot for more consistent damage. Most importantly, it does more damage against Rotom-Wash, which would otherwise be quite annoying. Next to these 2 moves, we have Fake Out and Ice Beam. Ice Beam is just general coverage, which is especially useful against Dragons, Flying and Grass types. Fake Out is probably the most important move on the moveset, as gives Pelipper a much easier time to use Surf and activate Ludicolo’s Absorb Bulb, making it extremely threatening. Whenever possible, I try to activate the Absorb Bulb as without it, Ludicolo’s attacks are pretty weak.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch
    - Protect

    This thing is a monster under the Rain. Both Waterfall and Earthquake hit incredibly hard and Ice punch was the coverage move of choice to get the best coverage possible. I could have used Super Power in that slot, which would deal with Lickilicky (Cloud nine is annoying) and Ferrothorn, but I have never really needed it. With Ice Punch, Swampert also has a way to hit Lati@s, which would otherwise wall it’s STAB moves. The only Pokemon that resists all of Swampert’s moves is Rotom-Wash, which is dealt with by Ludicolo. Swampert’s EVspread is pretty simple, as giving it max Speed would make it Speed Tie with Ludicolo, so I decided to run one Speedpoint lower. This also allows it to Earthquake with Ludicolo on the field, after Ludicolo has attacked, so even if I have to KO Ludicolo in a certain situation, I am sure that Ludicolo can get its attack of. The biggest drawback of this EVspread is that Swampert is now one point slower than Swift Swim Ludicolo 4, but Swampert cannot do a lot damage to it anyway.[​IMG]
    Celesteela @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
    Brave Nature
    - Heavy Slam
    - Seed Bomb
    - Flamethrower
    - Earthquake

    Celesteela is the obligatory Steel Type for this Rain team, and it might be a bit of a strange moveset. At first, I was running a Special set with Heavy Slam as it’s only Physical move. However, I noticed I was almost exclusively using Heavy Slam so I decided to run a more physical set, with Flamethrower as it’s only special move. Flamethrower was absolutely necessary, as this team would otherwise lose hard to Ferrothorn 4. Obviously, Flamethrower is not that strong in the Rain, but when Celesteela came out, Rain was very often almost expired. Also, Ferrothorn simply cannot get past this Celesteela, so Celesteela was always able to Stall out the Rain and KO Ferrothorn. Or so I thought. In practise, I hardly ever saw Ferrothorn, and when I did, it was only Cursing, allowing Ludicolo and Pelipper to KO it.
    I really wanted to run Celesteela with the Assault Vest as this would allow it to take a lot of attacks, most importantly Special Water moves boosted in the Rain, and it even allowed it to take Thunders from Zapdos or Specs Latios. Because I wanted to run Assault Vest, I needed 2 filler moves. I decided to use Seed Bomb to gain extra coverage against Water types, as Celesteela wasn’t able to hit them very hard. Lastly, I decided to run Earthquake to give Celesteela access to a spread move that could also hit Electric types harder.

    How to play (open)

    It’s a Rain team, how hard can it be. Simply try to Surf your Ludicolo whenever possible and Fake Out the biggest threat. From there, you try to sweep. Obviously, this doesn’t work all the time. You have to take a few more things into consideration before clicking these moves, but most of the time, this works. Take a note of Pokemon you cannot Fake Out such as Crobat (Inner Focus) and Gengar, who can also KO Ludicolo. Luckily, Celesteela can very easily switch in against them and defeat them. When Switching Ludicolo out, try to not use Surf as this will do pretty hefty damage against Celesteela or Swampert.

    Threats (open)

    Swift Swimmers: I have talked a lot about this, but opposing Swift Swimmers, which basically means Ludicolo and Kingdra, are super dangerous as they take advantage of the Rain with fast, Rain Boosted attacks and they also have the coverage to hit Ludicolo for big damage. Ludicolo is a bit more manageable, because of Hurricane on Pelliper. Kingdra is probably by far the biggest threat, especially Kingdra 4. It has both Protect, which makes doubling up on it a dangerous thing to do, and a super strong Z-Move, which allows it do deal a ton of damage to my team. Luckily, them having Swift Swim is only a 1/3 chance, but even without it, they can still be dangerous as seen in my loss.
    Hail: Hail and Blizzard are dangerous for almost all kind of teams that do not have Tapu Fini. Abomasnow is especially annoying as it can Mega Evolve, forcing Pelipper to Rain Dance even when having Sound Proof, and it can also use protect. Its Blizzards also hit the team pretty hard. Alola-Ninetales is luckily much less of a threat as Pelipper underspeeds it, allowing Rain to go up. However, it can still be pretty dangerous in the back, cancelling out my rain and threatening my team with Freeze-Dry, which hits 3/4 of the team for 4 times super effective damage (oops). I hardly ever faced this, but it can be pretty dangerous in the right situation. Aurorus and manual Hail Setters are most of the time not much of a threat.
    Sun: This mostly translates to Charizard. After playing a few Charizards I have found a pretty safe way to beat them. Charizard can be either Charizard X or Y and you never know which one you face. When Charizard leads, I will use Fake Out with Ludicolo on the Charizard, and switch out Pelipper to Swampert. If it’s X I can KO it with Earthquake the following turn. If it’s Y I simply switch either Swampert or Ludicolo out for Pelipper, getting the Rain back up and most likely letting it charge a Solar Beam. This allows me easily dispatch it the following turn. Other Sun setters can be a bit annoying, but by playing smartly with Pelipper, I should come out on top.
    Sand: Hardly a threat, as almost all Sandstorm setters are either weak to water, very passive, or both. Tyranitar 3/4 is the most annoying one, but whenever Swampert comes in, it should simply win.
    Cloud Nine: This is very annoying as it means I have to KO the Pokemon with Cloud Nine. The most annoying ones are Lickilicky (can have either a Quick Claw or Normalium Z with Explosion) and Drampa (Again, Quick Claw or Z-move). Both can be a real pain to KO, especially Lickilicky as I do not have any fighting moves on my team. Altaria is the last Cloud Nine Pokemon, but it is not much of a threat.
    Trick Room: With Ludicolo and Pelipper, Trick Room hardly ever goes up if I don’t want to. Even if Trick Room is set up, Celesteela and even Swampert do not really mind Trick Room. Pelipper can also serve quite well as a bait and Ludicolo can stall a turn of Trick Room with Fake Out.

    Battle Videos (open)

    To be added

    Alright. This post is already very long, but I am unfortunately (or very maybe fortunately) not done yet. After losing with my Rain team, I decided to try something completely different. Not a different team in Doubles, but I decided to try Singles! I have always found singles to be pretty boring because you have to play very safe to win consistently, but I just wanted to try it. I also felt that there was not much creativity in Singles when it came to teams on the leaderbord as it was either a Salamence/Aegi team or a Garchomp, Tapu Fini, Scizor team (and obviously Durant). So I looked at the teams from this generation and last generation for some inspiration and found just that. Almost inmediatly I decided I wanted to use Chansey because sweeping with Minimze Chansey seemed fun, and it also beats almost half of the Pokemon in the Tree (basically everything special based). From there I knew I wanted to use something that would beat every physical attacker, especially fighting types. For this role, I decided to use Gliscor. It should beat all fighting types easily, and also destroy win against a lot of other dangerous physical Pokemon. With Substitute and Protect and can even win against most Special Attackers slower than it. Lastly, I thought that Gliscor, even though it is already very strong defensively, could use Intimidate support to make it almost invincible to physical attackers. Salamence is the prime physical attacker in the Tree, but it doesn’t really synergize very well with Gliscor, so I decided on another Intimidating Mega Pokemon, Mega Gyarados. What I didn’t realize when putting these 3 together was that (Mega) Gyarados also beats the last few threats for Chansey + Gliscor, namely physical Ice and Water Pokemon. So with this, the team was build and I was ready to hop back into the Battle Tree and the team completely surpassed my expectations.

    Posting an ongoing streak of 531 in Super Singles.

    Gyarados,Gliscor,Chansey (open)

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Gyarados @Gyaradosite
    Ability: Intimidate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Crunch
    - Substitute

    Very simple but effective. Dragon Dance to set-up against many opponents. Substitute to protect it from Status and Critical Hits when setting up. It also allows me to scout against certain Pokemon. Double Stab simply gives Mega Gyarados the best possible coverage. The EVspread is also very simple, but neccesarry. Maybe I could take away a little bit of its speed, but maximum attack necessary, even if it’s just for one Pokemon: Contrary Serperior 4, which is probably the biggest threat to my team. At +1, Gyarados has a 37.5% chance to OHKO (if this doesn’t work, Chansey has to tank a +4 Specs Leaf Storm and KO back with Seismic Toss, leaving it severely damaged). Gyarados Intimidate is crucial for Gliscor to be able to switch in on certain Pokemon, such as Charizard-X, Archeops 3, among other things.
    [​IMG]
    Gliscor Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 212 HP / 4 Atk / 220 Def / 4 SpD / 68 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake

    Last generation, Gliscor was almost always ran specially defensive. However, with Chansey on his side in this team, that didn’t really make much sense to me, so I decided to go for a physically Defensive approach. This allows it to tank the strongest of physical Moves without any problems. I gave it enough Speed to outspeed Tyrantrum 4, so he can switch in on the first Head Smash and stall the remaining ones out with Sub-protect. There is too much to say about Gliscor, but I will leave a few damage calculations to simply show its amazing physical bulk.

    +1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 150-176 (84.7 - 99.4%)

    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 127-151 (71.7 - 85.3%)
    -1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 84-100 (47.4 - 56.4%)

    252+ Atk Sniper Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor on a critical hit: 114-136 (64.4 - 76.8%)

    252 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 84-100 (47.4 - 56.4%)
    -1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 57-67 (32.2 - 37.8%)

    252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 84-100 (47.4 - 56.4%)
    [​IMG]
    Chansey @ Eviolite
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Seismic Toss
    - Soft-Boiled
    - Minimize
    - Substitute

    Chansey, the Pokemon that inspired this team. It isn’t as fun to sweep with Minimize Chansey as I imagined, but it’s still pretty fun sometimes. Huge shout outs to NoCheese for inspiring the use of Timid Chansey. It allows Chansey to outspeed a ton of Pokemon it should not have any business outspeeding. A lot of these slow Pokemon also have Status moves and with Subsitute, Chansey can avoid getting Statused instead of having to switch out to get rid of the status. Everything else is very standard about this Chansey and it wins against almost all Special Attackers and even a lot of physical Attackers, even though I mostly use Gliscor for those.

    How to play (open)

    This team is pretty easy play I think. It abuses the AI less than AegiMence, as the type synergy between the Pokemon is not that good. Most of the time the question is, which Pokemon can I set up against the Pokemon in front of me. The order of preference for me is first I try to set-up Gyarados. Gyarados with at least 4 Dragon Dances and a Substitute already wins against a lot of foes, but this is not always possible. Even getting to +2 with with a Substitute is often enough to win the game. If setting up Gyarados is not possible, I will set-up either Gliscor or Chansey, depending on the opponent. Whenever I cannot Set-up one of my Pokemon, I will always try to KO the Pokemon with either Gliscor or Chansey, so I always have the options of switching Gyarados in for its Intimidate.

    Threats (open)

    Contrary Serperior 4: This is probably one of the biggest threats of this team as a lead. Chansey can’t simply switch in on it as at + 6 it has a pretty decent chance to OHKO it. The procedure if I face this (I haven’t yet) is setting up a Dragon Dance against it and hit it with a +1 Crunch from Mega Gyarados. Mega Gyarados has a 37.5% chance to OHKO it with a +1 Crunch. If this doesn’t pick up the KO, Chansey has to come in, tank the +4 Leaf Storm and KO it with Seismic toss. This leaves me with a full health Gliscor and a severely weakened Chansey, which is certainly not ideal, but there is not much else I can do I think.
    Gyarados 4 (Mega): Mega Gyarados is funnily enough a very big threat for this team. The procedure is going to Gliscor and trying to hit it with a Toxic. After hitting it with a Toxic, Switching back and forth between Gliscor and Gyarados will KO it. The problems of this strategy are pretty obvious, Toxic has a 10% to miss and Waterfall also has a 20% chance to flinch. I faced Mega Gyarados 3 times and one time I missed the Toxic, but it luckily Dragon Danced again. Gliscor then survived the +1 Waterfall and hit its Toxic and I still won, but it’s just a matter of time that it will flinch Gliscor and I lose.
    Boosters (Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, etc.) Boosters are hard to deal with as they can simply go to +6 and sweep me. Luckily, they often don’t go to +6. Also, every booster slower than Gliscor can simply be outstalled by Gliscor. Next to this, a ton of boosters simply lose against Gyarados or cannot deal enough damage to be a real threat to Chansey. Some can win with a little bit of hax, but for every booster there is a strategy possible that neutralizes them.
    Taunt: With only 4 attacking moves, Taunt is very annoying. Luckily, Taunters put a very high priority on Taunt, which means I can simply attack a Taunter.

    Battle Videos (open)

    To be added

    Conclusion
    I kinda regret postponing the posts about the Doubles teams. I really should make a post after I have finished a streak, but the truth is that while playing and thinking of new ideas, I am not in the mood of writing about the old team. I will try to work on this and start writing after I have finished a streak, instead of amassing multiple streaks, which results in one giant post like this one. Speaking of new streaks, I cannot wait to play more Tree in USUM. I have already thought of some new ideas with the new UBs and Move Tutors. However, after completing USUM, the first thing I want to do is complete my singles streak. Not sure when this will happen though. See you guys next time!
    MrMarc, Eppie, Josh C. and 12 others like this.
  3. Suspicious Derivative

    Suspicious Derivative

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    Messages:
    129
    In the few days I have had between being done with S/M and waiting for the release of US/UM, I decided to go back to the Battle Tree and continue on my unfinished Super Double streaks. Now, the first of them has ended. My Super Double streak on Sun has ended at 274 wins in a row. Time for a proper team and streak writeup.

    Picture proof (open)

    [​IMG]
    Team (open)


    [​IMG]
    Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite ** Resilience
    Ability: Scrappy -> Parental Bond
    IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
    EVs: 252 Att / 6 Sp.def / 252 Spd
    Nature: Jolly
    - Return
    - Sucker Punch
    - Power-Up Punch
    - Fake Out

    [​IMG]
    Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs ** Intensity
    Ability: Electric Surge
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31 (Hyper Trained)
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Sp.att / 252 Spd
    Nature: Timid
    - Thunderbolt
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Grass Knot
    - Volt Switch

    [​IMG]
    Latios (M) @ Dragonium Z ** Obstinance
    Ability: Levitate
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31 (Hyper Trained)
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Sp.att / 252 Spd
    Nature: Timid
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psychic
    - Surf
    - Protect

    [​IMG]
    Excadrill (M) @ Focus Sash ** Vivacity
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spd
    Nature: Adamant
    - Drill Run
    - Iron Head
    - Rock Tomb
    - Protect
    Team building (open)
    I posted a very short version of this in my previous post, but I want to expand upon it a little more now that I have the chance.

    I initially settled for Tapu Koko since I had used Lele in Moon and after looking at the Double leaderboards here in this thread, Koko and Lele seemed to be the two most useful Tapu. They were on the most teams, as well as many of the most successful teams.

    Originally, I wanted to have Alolan Raichu as a partner for Koko, but I was having a very hard time coming up with good backups for them. I considered a ton of Pokemon but I wasn't sure which one(s) to use. The ones I had in mind were the following:

    Landorus
    Thundurus
    Mega Salamence
    Hydreigon
    Rotom
    Latios
    Celesteela
    Hawlucha
    Talonflame
    Togekiss
    Pelipper
    (Mega) Gyarados

    But neither of them felt like good alternatives, either because I wasn't sure how to use them or because I had used them recently and didn't feel like using them again. Though, Latios was on the list and still ended up on the team as a backup.

    In the end, I scrapped Alolan Raichu and went with Mega Kangaskhan as the lead partner alongside Koko instead. I got the idea from some people on the leaderboards, probably MrMarc and lucariojr as they have both used Mega Kangaskhan and Tapu Koko as leads. Mega Kangaskhan might have been nerfed since last Gen but it is still powerful.

    As for the backups, I had settled for Latios as one of the backups along the way before scrapping Raichu. I think I got the main idea from turskain and his team. In the last slot, I really wanted a Steel-type to cover some types I couldn't hit for super effective damage and that Latios was weak against. I considered the following:

    Kartana
    Aegislash
    Excadrill
    Magnezone
    Scizor

    I eventually settled on Excadrill since it is Steel and also Ground, giving me extra coverage against Poison-types as well as being immune to Electric. I had also seen this team by lolnub, which had gotten a high streak while featuring an Excadrill.

    That was the team building in short. If anyone wants my full notes while I built the team, I have posted them in the spoiler below. Note that it is not very well written or serious (don't take everything in there too seriously!), I'm posting them here mostly just for fun.

    Team building notes (open)
    [Note: I repeat myself a lot here so some things are said more than once.]

    Tapu Koko + A-Raichu
    or Koko + something else entirely? To decide...

    Offensive coverage I have with these two:

    Water, Flying

    Dark, Fighting, Dragon

    Ground Rock
    Poison

    Important to cover:

    The Ground-weakness. Something that is immune to Ground is a must.

    But what?

    Preferably something that isn't weak to Electric.

    Alternatives:

    Landorus
    Thundurus-T? LOL
    Mega Salamence
    Mega Gyarados
    Latios

    What does the team need help against?

    Grass-types, primarily. Ghost to an extent.

    Also Steel and opposing Electric-types.

    Not to mention Ground, an immunity is a must.

    What to do against them?

    Flying+Ground covers three.

    Koko+Rai+MegaScizor+Latios?

    Could work. I guess...

    Something that can switch in on Ground-moves is absolutely necessary.
    Preferrably also a Pokemon that can hit Ground-types back for SE damage.


    Okay. Let's do this.

    Tapu Koko + Alolan Raichu

    Needs a Ground immunity. Preferably one that isn't weak to Electric.

    Alternatives:
    Landorus
    Thundurus
    Mega Salamence
    Hydreigon
    Rotom
    Latios

    Extras:
    Celesteela
    Hawlucha
    Talonflame
    Togekiss
    Pelipper
    (Mega) Gyarados

    Okay.
    So...

    Avoid the extras if possible:

    Landorus - Immune to both Ground and Electric, also a Physical attacker. Can potentially hit both Electric- and Grass-types for SE damage.
    Weaknesses to Water, Ice, Ghost, Water is offensively covered by the leads

    Thundurus - Immune to Ground and possibly Electric too. Can also hit Grass-types super-effectively, potentially.
    Weaknesses to Poison, Rock, Ice and Ghost, can only really handle Poison from those thanks to Raichu.

    Mega Salamence- Immune to Ground, does not resist Electric. Can be either Special, Physical or Mixed. Can hit Grass and potentially Electric-types for SE damage too.
    Poison, Rock, Ice, Fairy and Ghost, can handle Poison and Rock potentially.

    Latios - Immune to Ground and resists Electric. A Special attacker though.
    Weak to Poison, Ghost, Ice, Fairy. Out of these, it can adress Poison on its own so yay.

    Hydreigon - too slow

    Rotom - too many Electric-types so nah.

    Real talk now.

    What would be best?

    Landorus - Immune to both Ground and Electric, also a Physical attacker. Could also be special. Can potentially hit both Electric- and Grass-types for SE damage.
    Weaknesses to Water, Ice, Ghost, Water is offensively covered by the leads

    Mega Salamence- Immune to Ground, does not resist Electric. Can be either Special, Phyiscal or Mixed. Can hit Grass and potentially Electric-types for SE damage too.
    Poison, Rock, Ice, Fairy and Ghost, can handle Poison and Rock potentially.

    Latios - Immune to Ground and resists Electric. A Special attacker though.
    Weak to Poison, Ghost, Ice, Fairy. Out of these, it can adress Poison on its own so yay.

    Scrapping Thundurus because three Electric-types feels so weird and wrong.

    More in detail:

    Landorus - Immune to both Ground and Electric, also a Physical attacker. Could also be special. Can potentially hit both Electric- and Grass-types for SE damage. No good Abilities for a pure Physical one though?
    Weaknesses to Water, Ice, Ghost. Water is offensively covered by the leads

    Mega Salamence- Immune to Ground, does not resist Electric. Has Intimidate which can be good. Can be either Special, Phyiscal or Mixed. Can hit Grass and potentially Electric-types for SE damage too.
    Poison, Rock, Ice, Fairy and Ghost, can handle Poison and Rock potentially.

    Latios - Immune to Ground and resists Electric. A Special attacker though. Levitate is never bad to have.
    Weak to Poison, Ghost, Ice, Fairy. Out of these, it can address Poison on its own so yay.

    Ok. Let's look at offensive coverage:

    Landorus: Electric, Rock, Fire, Poison Rock, potentially Grass, Bug, Fighting

    Salamence: Grass, Bug, Fighting

    Latios: Dragon, Poison, Fighting, Rock, Ground, Fire

    Hmm...

    Scrapping Salamence because I have used it before and I want to try another Mega.

    Okay then.

    Landorus VS Latios:

    Landorus - Immune to both Ground and Electric, also a Physical attacker. Could also be special. Can potentially hit both Electric- and Grass-types for SE damage. No good Abilities for a pure Physical one though?
    Weaknesses to Water, Ice, Ghost. Water is offensively covered by the leads. Ice and Ghost though... again, "4" might have to do. ["4" here refers to the at this point undecided 4th member of the team]

    Can hit for SE damage: Electric, Steel, Fire, Poison, Rock
    Maybe also Grass, Bug, Fighting

    Latios - Immune to Ground and resists Electric. A Special attacker though. Levitate is never bad to have.
    Weak to Poison, Ghost, Ice, Fairy. Out of these, it can address Poison on its own so yay. The others are a problem though, none of the leads can adress them so "4" needs to cover a lot.
    Can hit for SE damage: Dragon, Poison, Fighting, Rock, Ground, Fire

    I can live without hitting Grass-types as "4" might be able to handle them... Scizor maybe? xD

    Okay. More tomorrow.

    Standing right here:
    Landorus: 4
    Latios: 2

    Stats:
    Landorus has higher Attack, HP and Def
    Latios has higher SA, SD and Spd

    Latios has higher Attacking stat and Speed, so 1 point for it.
    Latios also doesn't have a 4x weak, 1 point for that

    Landorus on the other hand only has 2 weaknesses, Latios has 6. point for Landorus
    Landorus also is Physical while Latios is special. 1 point for that.

    Latios is immune to Ground and resists Electric
    Landorus is immune to both. 1 point for it.

    With Landorus, team is weak to 3 types, one which is 4x
    With Latios, team is weak to 4 types, one which has 2 weak members.

    Point for Landorus.

    Okay, nevermind.

    New idea. Mega Kanga instead of Raichu. Yes, good.

    What in the last slot, though?

    Offensive coverage I have:

    T-bolt, Grass Knot, Dazzle, Surf, Draco Meteor, Psychic, Sucker Punch

    Water, Flying, Ground, Rock, Fighting, Poison, Dragon, Dark, Fire, Psychic, Ghost

    What types might give me trouble?

    Poison - one weakness I have covered
    Ice
    Fairy

    A steel-type... le sigh. Oh well.

    Covers Ice, Fairy

    Alternatives:

    Kartana - can't switch in at all but is ridiculously fast and strong, unresisted against Ice
    Aegislash - could work, also as glue against Trick Room I guess.
    Excadrill - Ground helps, also good STABs. Unresisted against Ice again though.
    Magnezone - is special though, and probably wants HP whatever. so bleh
    Scizor - Maybe... a bit slow, and no Mega, but otherwise perhaps?

    Scizor too weak, scrapping.

    Magnezone too complicated, scrapping.

    The others though.

    Aegislash is kinda boring, no matter how well it works.

    Kartana with Sash, Exca with either Sash or maybe Scarf?

    One of them. With Sash.

    What do they help with, coverage-wise?

    Already have these covered:

    Water, Flying, Ground, Rock, Fighting, Poison, Dragon, Dark, (Fire), Psychic, Ghost

    Kartana: Ice, Fairy, Normal, Grass, Steel

    Exca: Ice, Fairy, Electric, Steel, Fire

    Points once more:
    Ex: 3
    Ka: 1

    Let's go with Excadrill.

    More planning tomorrow.

    Damage calcs with Drill Run Vs EQ

    Drill Run does more damage at the cost of only hitting one enemy in Double.

    So yay.

    Latios:

    Works as well. So yeah, let's go.

    Okay. Final thing. Type coverage:

    Kanga: Perfect
    SE against: Ghost, Psychic (Dark, Ice, Normal, Rock, Steel)

    Koko: Misses out on Grass/Poison, Grass/Steel, Electric/Steel and Rotom-Heat
    SE against: Flying, Water, Rock, Ground, Dark, Dragon, Fighting

    Latios:
    SE against: Dragon, Fighting, Poison

    Exca: Perfect
    SE against: Electric, Fire, Rock, Poison, Steel, Fairy, Ice, Bug, Flying

    Types I am missing coverage against: Grass
    (Normal)

    Last move for Latios?

    Alternatives: Surf, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt (no Terrain boost!), Energy Ball, Shadow Ball, Psyshock, Dragon Pulse

    A support move? Since I have to send it over from Gen 6 anyway.
    Alternatives: Tailwind, Icy Wind
    Team discussion (open)
    The general strategy with the team was to start by using Fake Out on one opponent while dealing damage and often also defeating the other. From then on, I went on and attacked, sometimes setting up Kangaskhan, also using Protect with Latios and Excadrill if that was needed.

    As everyone knows, Mega Kangaskhan is incredibly powerful. High Attack, good enough Speed and decent bulk makes for a great Pokemon. Parental Bond gives every move a 25% power boost and lets it hit twice which can be useful to break Sturdy and Focus Sashes. Return is the main move, I didn't go with Double-Edge because I don't like the nasty recoil. Fake Out was the move I often used on the first turn to flinch one opponent and sometimes deal heavy damage too. Sucker Punch for priority and coverage against Ghost-types. Power-Up Punch was chosen because as we all know, both Parental Bond and Sucker Punch got nerfed this generation, so Kanga really appreciates having a bit more power which it can get from a +2 boost. I usually tried to set up whenever possible but it was not always without risk and attacking right away was often a better alternative.

    I went with a Jolly Nature for Kangaskhan in order to get a bit more speed which I found more necessary than Attack, 100 Base speed is good but not quite enough for the Tree without a boosting Nature. Scrappy was the chosen Ability in order to use Fake Out against opposing Ghost-types on turn 1 if it should turn out to be necessary.

    Tapu Koko is more or less standard. Thunderbolt is the main move that was used most of the time, it hits like a truck after being boosted by STAB, Choice Specs and Electric Terrain. Dazzling Gleam for coverage and secondary STAB with the ability to hit both opponents on the field which could be very useful at times. Grass Knot was mainly for Ground-types but I rarely used it as it felt more safe to simply switch out Koko most of the time.

    Volt Switch was the last move. As for how to use it... I'll say like Elesa in Pokemon Adventures: "You can attack and switch out your Pokemon in a single move. That's one of my favorite strategies!" If you ever battled Elesa without a Ground-type on your team, you should know how annoying it can be. Anyway, with Koko I used the move if I wanted to switch to one of the backups but also deal damage at the same time, which could be useful. Choice Specs was the chosen hold item in order to raise it's Sp.att, base 95 is very low so it needs all the power it can get.

    Latios is the third member of the team. Draco Meteor and Dragonium Z gives it a Devastating Drake with 195 base power which is extremely powerful. Psychic as a secondary STAB and extra coverage, it helps against Fighting- and Poison-types which Kanga and Koko doesn't like. I used Surf in the third slot but it is the only move on the team which I have considered changing because I rarely used it. The only times I could use it without problems was if I had Latios and Excadrill out, and let Excadrill use Protect while Latios surfed. I considered several other options instead of Surf but went with it in the end anyway since I couldn't think of anything better. Protect in the last slot because it is a very useful move in Doubles in order to scout or not take any damage while the partner can do something to the opponents. The Dragon/Psychic-typing and Levitate was very useful for Latios since it could switch in on Fighting-type moves for Kanga or Ground-type moves for Koko or Excadrill. It also appreciated Kangaskhan's immunity to Ghost and Koko's immunity to Dragon.

    Excadrill was surprisingly useful in many ways. I only wish that it had a bit more Speed but I guess that it would be broken if it was much faster than it is. Excadrill did get banned to Ubers in Gen 5 IIRC thanks to Sand Rush and Tyranitar being very common. Anyway, it has a place on this team too. Drill Run might seem odd but I chose it over Earthquake because I couldn't find any good situations where Earthquake would be more useful. Kangaskhan doesn't resist Ground, Koko is weak to it and Latios will still take damage thanks to Excadrill's Mold Breaker. Drill Run also does more damage to one opponent in Doubles compared to Earthquake, the downside being that it only hits one opponent. Then it is also a contact move which could be annoying at times. But I had to go with it anyway.

    Iron Head in the second slot for secondary STAB, also allowing me to hit Fairy-, Ice- and Rock-types for super effective damage. I went with Rock Tomb in the last slot, mostly because lolnub had used the same move on his Excadrill. It was mostly used for hitting Flying-types, which didn't happen often but once in a great while. Protect in the last slot, same reason as on Latios. Focus Sash felt like the most useful item in order to guarantee Excadrill would survive at least one hit, it was extremely helpful in many situations. Having a Ground-type was also very useful since it was immune to the Electric-moves from grounded opponents that also got a boost from Electric Terrain. Being immune to both Thunder Wave and Toxic was also amazing, a Steel-type in general is a good thing because you can stall and auto-win against annoying foes like Cresselia-2. Mold Breaker is an amazing ability which allows me to override annoyances such as Sturdy and Levitate, being able to hit most Rotom forms with Drill Run is a lot of fun!

    I really dislike having to use inaccurate moves but I had no choice here. Drill Run and Rock Tomb both have 95% accuracy which meant they at least hit most of the time when they needed to, but not always (such as in my losing battle... more about that later). The same goes for Draco Meteor but I mostly used Devastating Drake so it wasn't that bad.

    The EVs for the entire team was as standard as it could be, I just maxed Speed and their attacking stat with the rest put either in HP, or Sp.def for Kanga in order to raise the Attack of opposing Download users. Didn't really feel like trying with any more specific EV spreads because I'm honestly not very good at them.

    There was one main change I considered for the team. I wanted to change to a different Latios which would have Hidden Power Fire instead of Surf, but I never made the change. Mostly because I don't have such a Latios and I'm too lazy to try to trade for one or try to get one on my own, not to mention I don't want to restart any of my games to get a new Latios. It would have been helpful against Steel- and Ice-types which Latios doesn't like too much, as well as allowing me to hit Grass-types for super effective damage as it is was the only type I didn't hit super effectively with the team's moves. It would also give me an easier time against Ferrothorn. But in the end, I never made the change and it never ended up mattering either.

    There's also one thing I should say about my playstyle. I don't look up opposing movesets and such while I'm playing, nor do I know every possible opposing set by heart. I do try to remember some of the more important/dangerous ones though. Just in case anyone was wondering about that.

    ---

    I'm not done yet. For once, I'm going to write about my nicknames as well because I usually don't do that and because why not? For fun, anyway. If you don't care, you can skip this.

    Resilience was named after a song by Princewhateverer. If you want to listen, here's a link:
    (apparently it posts the video and not just the link, guess that's how it works when posting Youtube videos on this forum lol, never done it before)

    Perhaps the word doesn't fit Mega Kangaskhan very well but I liked the song so much that I had to use it somewhere and it ended up being used at the first possible opportunity.

    For Tapu Koko, I initially wanted to nickname it Lightning Fury (taken from a skill in Diablo 2, I game I used to play a lot when I was younger). But it was too long. Instead, I went with Intensity since that describes Tapu Koko quite well.

    I wanted to continue with the pattern of having the team members named after describing nouns (if that even if the right word to use, I'm not really sure). I wanted something like "coolness" for Latios (because it is really cool) and I somehow arrived at Obstinance. It sounded cool and complicated so I went with it.

    As for Vivacity, I looked at other video games to get inspiration. I eventually got it from one of Riki's skill trees in Xenoblade Chronicles. Maybe not the best word for Excadrill but whatever.
    Threatlist (open)
    I don't have a real threatlist. Guess what? I'm terrible at identifying threats to my teams and I'm terrible at writing threatlists too. Though there are three major things that stand out which I touched on in my previous post, will repost them here with a bit more explanation.

    The first and most obvious one is Trick Room. All four members of my team are quite fast and will get outrun by things during Trick Room. That said, Trick Room teams were usually not that problematic. If I could either defeat one of the opponents on the first turn (the most threatening opponent or the most threatening TR setter) or prevent the opponent from using Trick Room by using Fake Out, I could continue from there and win.

    During the streak, I was afraid of running into a team where the leads would be two bulky Trick Room users where I would be unable to defeat either of them on the first turn. Fortunately, that never happened and I'm not even sure if such a duo even exists.

    If the opponent managed to set up Trick Room, it was usually not that bad either since I could switch to stall and bait moves, use Protect or just attack them anyway if they weren't strong enough to defeat my Pokemon. Kangaskhan's Sucker Punch was very useful in such situations, both for priority and the typing.

    Ice-types and Freeze were another big threat, at least it felt so early on. Latios has a weakness to Ice but I have no resistance on the team, and getting Frozen is never fun. But it felt like I never ran into that many Ice-types during the latter parts of the streak, which is a bit weird but I guess that's' how it is.

    Ferrothorn. This is one Pokemon I cannot beat very reliably since it is very bulky and resists many of my moves. The only Super Effective move I can hit it with is Kanga's PuP which isn't completely reliable. If Ferrothorn has Iron Barbs, it gets even worse since that means Kanga will be taking damage as well when it attacks. From what I remember, I ran into Ferrothorn twice during the streak, managed to beat it without major problems both times.

    Status can be annoying as well. Kangaskhan and Excadrill did not enjoy being burned as that lowered their offensive power quite a bit. Paralysis could be problematic for Kangaskhan and Latios, thankfully Excadrill and Koko were immune or semi-immune to it. Confusion was just generally annoying as always. The Electric Terrain meant that everything except Latios was immune to Sleep, which is never bad.

    Other than that, there's not much I can think of. Each team member has weaknesses but the rest of the team could cover them. There aren't a whole lot of Pokemon that can handle Fake Out combined with the offensive pressure the team is capable of putting on most opponents. The only Pokemon I could expect to survive two hits apart from Ferrothorn would be Cresselia, most other things just aren't bulky enough to survive, or have the wrong typing which allows me to pick on their weaknesses. Bulky Pokemon can still be dealt with by leaving them until last, I can't think of any Pokemon that is both bulky enough to survive two hits multiple times as well as be strong enough offensively to deal serious damage to my team.

    In the end, I guess the biggest threat for the team was not anything related to the team itself but rather mistakes and bad playing from my own side.
    Battle Videos (open)
    I removed some of my old Battle Videos and uploaded some new ones from the battles past battle #200. Didn't save very many though, but a few at least. I don't have any descriptions for the videos this time because I simply didn't have time to write them.

    Battle #213: EG5G-WWWW-WWW9-N439

    Battle #263: QUNW-WWWW-WWW9-N43N

    Battle #268: A9BW-WWWW-WWW9-N444

    Those are all from battles that were tough to win in some way. Watch them if you want to see how the team handles tough situations and how badly I can play sometimes.

    There are also a bunch of videos from my previous post, battles #50 - #200. Reposting them here as well if anyone wants to see more of the team in action:

    Battle #50: 62EW-WWWW-WWW8-H6Z4

    Battle #52: HNHG-WWWW-WWW8-H6ZY

    Battle #130: XGJG-WWWW-WWW8-H6P5

    Battle #144: F4MG-WWWW-WWW8-H6PG

    Battle #171: TX8G-WWWW-WWW8-H6PQ

    Battle #200: G6F6-WWWW-WWW8-H6Q6
    The loss (open)
    Battle #275: 4TEW-WWWW-WWW9-NH44

    I lost against a legendary team consisting of Heatran, Landorus, Articuno and Tornadus.

    The main problem here was the Heatran. And the reason I lost was because I didn't get rid of it as fast as possible, and ultimately, I failed to get rid of it at all. The others weren't that problematic, though the Landorus and Tornadus each defeated a member of my team. Articuno did practically not exist since it did nothing but die.

    I had many opportunities to get rid of the Heatran, but I failed at taking advantage of them. I should have known that Scarf Landorus would target Kangaskhan with Focus Blast, I was optimistic and tried a PuP against Heatran but I should have switched out for Koko to tank the hit instead. Using Sucker Punch could have been an alternative but in retrospect, it wouldn't have worked since the Heatran used WoW on that turn. Then I got rid of Articuno too quickly, I should have used Protect on Latios and targeted Heatran with Thunderbolt instead to get rid of it since I should have been able to beat Articuno with ease as long as I had both Koko and Excadrill left alive. I also used Draco Meteor too early, shouldn't have used it since not having Latios at -2 for the rest of the battle would have made it considerably stronger. The Heatran using Protect and then Drill Run missing against it at the worst possible moment didn't exactly help either. Guess I should have used Iron Head instead.

    252+ Atk Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 18-22 (9 - 11.1%)

    Though I'm not sure if that would have been enough. I should also have attacked with Latios instead of using Protect, might also have been able to win if Psychic hadn't missed once against the Tornadus due to Double Team. Finally, I might have been able to win on the last turn if I had let Latios use Surf instead of Psychic.

    -2 252 SpA Latios Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 23-28 (12.3 - 15%)

    -2 252 SpA Latios Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 36-44 (18.1 - 22.2%)

    I'm quite sure it would have KO'd both of them if it had just hit. I just didn't think about it at that point, I blame it on being in such a tight spot that I couldn't think correctly.

    Ultimately, there was a lot I could have done to win this battle but it is too late for that now.

    I'm done with this team now, don't feel like trying again because I can't see any reason to, and I need to focus on other things right now. But I'm still happy about this streak and the team since this team got me much farther than I had ever expected. I did honestly not expect to be able to get past Blue after I initially lost three times before Battle #50 on my first attempts. But the team proved to be even better than that and I'm so happy about it. Now I'm in the process of planting a ton of Starf and Lansat Berries which will probably be the last serious thing I do on Sun.

    I didn't have time to go into full details for everything here since this loss happened on Monday and I really wanted to get this post done before the release of US/UM. So yeah, sorry about that. But feel free to ask me if there are any questions or if anything is unclear.

    Finally, I should give an update regarding other things too. I have continued on my Super Double streak on Moon as well, it is currently ongoing at 300 wins (Battle Video: G4JG-WWWW-WWW9-N3RC). And it will have to stay that way for a while, if not forever. I'm going to get Ultra Moon tomorrow and then I will be busy with that for a long while forward, probably a year if not more. So I'm not sure when I'll get back to this streak, if I ever do. Looking back, I have ongoing streaks at several previous generations as well, all but Gen 2 and 5. Guess I'm pretty good at leaving streaks unfinished, which isn't all too strange since I usually don't play in order to get high streaks in the battle facilities.

    I also said earlier that I am going to write a post about my experiences and adventures in the Gen 2-5 Battle Facilities and post that here when I am done. Well, the good news is that I have at least started on writing that post. But it will take quite a while before it is done as I have a lot left to write, and I am quite busy with other things right now (and will probably be for a while forward... but we'll see). To anyone who is looking forward to that post, expect it at some point next year. That's all I can say about it right now.

    See you in the "Ultra" Tree!
  4. paperquagsire

    paperquagsire

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2017
    Messages:
    46
    Well, with USUM coming right up, I thought I might as well finish this writeup. Posting a completed streak of 392.

    The Team:
    Spr_7s_115M_s.png
    Kangaskhan-Mega @ Kangaskhanite
    Ability: Parental Bond
    Level: 50
    Shiny: Yes
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Frustration
    - Fake Out
    - Sucker Punch
    - Protect

    Fake out is amazing support, and few mons use it better than Kangaskhan. Fake Out + Frustration takes out a good portion of the tree, and Sucker Punch takes care of ghost types such as Gengar34, although using Scrappy to fake out ghost types turn one is often necessary to be able to KO with Sucker Punch. Fake out also can stop TR from going up, which is crucial as this team does not appreciate being slow. Inner Focus pokemon such as Oranguru are obliterated by doubling into them. Frustration is there as the main hard hitting stab, and protect is just a great move in doubles.

    Spr_7s_785_s.png
    Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Electric Surge
    Level: 50
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Grass Knot
    - Volt Switch

    Tapu Koko hits like a truck (But then again, who doesn't with specs?) It can easily OHKO a large portion of the tree with Thunderbolt, pivot out of a messysituation with Volt Switch, mess with the rock and ground types that usually destroy it by tripping them up with Grass Knot, and deal absurd spread damage with Dazzling Gleam, which also decimates thefighting types that Kangaskhan despises. Unfortunately, Lightning Rod pokemon (Marowak, Rhyperior, etc) can force it to switch if it is already locked into Tbolt (Which it often is), and usually those pokemon can threaten heavy damage on the essential free turn they get where I'm forced to switch.

    (Set shamelessly stolen from Turskain)

    Spr_7s_445_m.png

    Garchomp (M) @ Groundium Z
    Ability: Rough Skin
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw
    - Poison Jab
    - Protect

    Since it's debut in gen 4, Garchomp has made itself a reliable choice in battle facilities, online play, or anywhere else. Gen 7 is no exception, and now with Tectonic Rage it has an even greater way to smash past the opposition while not hurting it's partner. Earthquake for spread damage is the go-to STAB for Garchomp, Dragon Claw is for flying types, Poison Jab is for grass types such as Virizion, and fairies who threaten him. That slot used to be iron head, but after a close call with Veteran Xenophon, I switched to Poison Jab. Iron Head never outdamages Tectonic Rage anyway, and was used maybe once in the 300 battles I had it. Protect is an obvious move.

    (Set shamelessly stolen from Josh C)

    Spr_7s_797.png

    Celesteela @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Beast Boost
    Level: 50
    EVs: 164 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 84 Spe
    Quiet Nature
    - Heavy Slam
    - Flamethrower
    - Giga Drain
    - Protect

    First off, this is the only non 252/252 spread on the team, and is probably not the most efficient spread for bulk, speed, or anything else to be honest. Quiet nature was so I didn't weaken Heavy Slam, and I really wanted to be able to take hits, so speed got the drop as it was the least important stat. 84 speed goes against the Quiet nature, but allows me to outspeed Magnezone. Max SPa for the coverage moves because they are more used than heavy slam to be honest. Flamethrower is mandatory for Ferrothorn, which is a major roadblock otherwise, Scizor, Avalugg, and many others. Giga Drain could be replaced by Wide Guard, but it saved me from losing against sand teams so many times. Being able to hit Gastrodon, Rhyperior, and more is crucial to the team. Protect is great as always. Another perk of Celesteela is that it is immune to both of Koko's weaknesses, and Garchomp resists both of Celesteela's weaknesses (And Celesteela can deal with all of his), giving it great synergy with the team.


    The Loss: (open)
    (I will put the actual video code in once PGL comes up and I can upload it)
    Here's a Potato-Quality, vertically filmed, generally shitty YouTube video of the heartbreaking loss! (Battle 393 vs Sightseer Erza. Heatran2/Gengar3/Glaceon4/Latios3)



    Hindsight is 20/20. Why I targeted Latios instead of Glaceon is beyond me. Besides that misplay, I would have won if Glaceon missed any of it's blizzards, Heatran didn't crit with overheat, Glaceon didn't crit Celesteela with Blizzard, or Dazzling Gleam didn't miss Glaceon. My goal was to pass Smuckem at 425 wins, but considering I got over 4 times my previous largest streak of 86, I'm happy with what I got.


    Threatlist: (open)
    Most fire types can be real annoyances, but notably Infernape34 because of their fake out and killing prowess and possible sash, Salazzle34 because of their fake out, killing prowess, possible sash, and dragon coverage, Charizard34 because Thunderbolt is NOT a safe play (I generally volt switch or fake out or something, depends on the partners it gets, Arcanine4 because of the Z-fighting nuke and intimidate, and Marowak-A12 due to Lightning Rod, hitting like a goddamn truck, and somehow always coming out at the worst possible time.

    Rhyperior34 also can mess me up. As a lead I can Grass Knot and Frustration, which covers the possible sash, but as a backup it forces a switch, hits like a truck, and can even shrug off a Tectonic Rage from Garchomp. It alone warrants Giga Drain on Celesteela.

    Togedemaru34 is more of an annoyance than a threat. All three of it's abilities are annoying. Iron barbs makes me not want to Fake Out it, Lightning Rod makes me not want to use Tbolt or Volt Switch, and Sturdy can help it get off one last move before going to hell. Wild Charge in electric terrain hurts, and often it's other pokemon makes a switch to Garchomp unsafe. Nuzzle is annoying, fake out is annoying, spiky shield is annoying, this whole pokemon is annoying.

    Drampa3 can and has torn my team apart. Dazzling Gleam does not OHKO, and it can fire off quick claw boosted Hyper Voices, Fire Blasts, and Dragon Pulses. The possibility of Focus Blast or Z-Draco Meteor makes it even more terrifying. Get this menace off the field as soon as possible.

    Crobat34 can outspeed and KO Koko, and put Celesteela to sleep. Crobat4 seems to use taunt more than anything else though.

    Electric Types can abuse the Terrain I put down and use it against Kangaskhan and Celesteela. The Rotoms can't use the terrain, but make up for it with spreading status and tanking Koko's moves.

    Glaceon34 can freeze me, OHKO chomp, and chunk everything for heavy damage. Can also dodge at crucial moments with bright powder, use hail and snow cloak, and mirror coat makes it angerous to attack

    Sina: I recommend playing Tree on Moon just to get away from this trainer. I'm just gonna go through the annoying things she has.
    • Trick Room
    • Tailwind
    • Swagger
    • Drampa
    • A strong Electric Type nuke
    • Teeter Dance
    • Leech Seed
    • Hail
    • More Hail
    • Aurora Veil
    • Blizzard Spam boosted from the Hail
    • Mirror Coat
    • Snow Cloak
    • Bright Powder
    In conclusion: Fire types, Lightning Rod, Togedemaru, and Sina can fuck off and die.


    I'm sorta glad I lost around this time. USUM are gonna be great and I can't wait to pass this score in the new games (Move Tutors! Finally!). Huge thanks to all the folks in the Discord for being there to bounce ideas off of, listen to me type to myself about what I should do, and generally just being awesome. See y'all in USUM!
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  5. Magicxgame

    Magicxgame

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    107
    Since USUM have officially been released in Japan and Europe, here's a link to the changes to the Tree (spoilers!):

    https://pastebin.com/jt9TQEdP

    Fifteen movesets were tweaked, and three weak Pokemon were added.
  6. ReptoAbysmal

    ReptoAbysmal

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    448
    Those fucking punks! Those shameless punks ripped off my shitmon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I was running HP/SpA Assault Vest Magnezone before they did, and obviously they remembered my battle where Maggie solo'd a rain team, and were like "surely this dude is onto something. We want other people to go through the depressing motions of slowly getting murdered by a suboptimal EV spread with only two attacks that really mean something."

    I mean mine is also Quiet with 0 speed instead of 31, but the programmers probably didn't have the balls to go all the way. Still, I accept their sincerest form of flattery and will probably feel very smug every time Wally uses it.

    And if you guys somehow find yourself getting punked by Magnezone4, blame GF for opening the gates of hell. I merely allowed the dark power to engulf me and made it my own. It is THEY who then trained under ME

    i had my surgery today and am under heavy narcotics so i might have missed something in that file, but if you guys run into iron ball gardevoir, that was also my doing
  7. NoCheese

    NoCheese "Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    589
    I've updated things through here. Excited to see so many streaks get posted as we all get ready for the Ultra Sun / Moon Tree. I'm especially happy to see Gliscor doing so well. I've repeatedly pondered trying Gliscor with Chansey and Mega Slowbro, as Dragonite is not quite as good a lead in the Tree as it was in the Maison, and seeing Gliscor's continued success makes me think that Ultra Sun / Moon will be the place for me to give it a shot! Best of luck with your streaks, everyone!
    NZtechfreak and Marowak2000 like this.
  8. Smuckem

    Smuckem Resident Facility Bot Wannabe
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Messages:
    494
    A public service announcement: due to the recent PGL maintenance/turnover period, it appears that all links in the QR3 have been moved or changed; the current listing is no longer valid. As a result, I will be eventually creating a new QR3 on this post; I will search for the individual teams on the PGL and insert the new links here. In the meantime, you can safely ignore the current QR3, as it's basically a paperweight listing now.

    EDIT: Thanks to a small change in the QR links pointed out to me by JustinTR, I have repaired the QR3! It is now once again open for business. If allowed, I will reserve this post as the future repository for USUM QR teams created by Smogonites. I will most likely name this listing as something different, need to come up with something witty...
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  9. average fella

    average fella

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    199
    Rest in Peace Aerodactyl1 using only Rock Slide: 2010-2017

    Rest in Peace Choice Scarf Aero shenanigans: 2013-2017

    Serperior-4 is the last holdout of "tree sets with less than 4 moves"
  10. Blitzamirin

    Blitzamirin Analytic
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,067
    I have some insight on those 3 Pokemon that were added:

    Minor Spoiler (open)
    In short, you have to face a Team Rocket Grunt in the Battle Agency as part of the RR plot. This Grunt uses those 3 weak Gen 1 Pokemon you see on the list; I strongly doubt you will ever see them outside of this scripted encounter or even the Tree, so they can be discarded.
    paperquagsire and NoCheese like this.
  11. PikaCuber

    PikaCuber

    Joined:
    May 10, 2017
    Messages:
    37
    Well, I just found out that Florges2 actually knows how to attack by it's own choice.

    MUUG-WWWW-WWW9-T7SZ

    Tried to use Nature Power in Misty Terrain onto Mega Absol, but that as the turn I switched Mega Absol out into Tapu Lele, making it into Psychic. Only happened once, but this is the only time I've seen it attack.

    Also, silver_angel, your database is great, but I noticed that the Speed stat you have for Electrode34 is wrong, listed as 211, not 222. It's on the Colress page, maybe more, if that even matters.
  12. Level 51

    Level 51 ♪you just want my spreadsheets, you don't want my heart♪
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a defending Smogon Snake Draft Champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    2,695
    Hi friends what up

    Here is a story told in two pictures:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Dammit lol

    100 and counting in the USUM Battle Tree, maybe I'm the first to triple digits? I was excited to work with USUM, less so because of the new Pokemon and more because of the new move tutors. In particular I think there are a few Pokemon that benefited greatly from them, and I've showcased a collection of them in this team. The team may not be all that great for the Tree—in the time I've been on hiatus I appear to have forgotten how to hax-proof a team—but it seems to work somewhat. Not as good as PheroLele but honestly nothing is.

    =====================

    Speed Control: The Team
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The team sprung from my intention to test out non-Missagross™, a set with three 100%-accurate moves: Iron Head, Thunder Punch, and a surprisingly effective new addition from USUM move tutors, Stomping Tantrum. I decided I wanted to pair this with Koko to boost Thunder Punch's damage output, effectively giving Metagross the equivalent of an Electric STAB, but this core left me with:
    • two Ground-type weaknesses and thus a weakness to Garchomp-3;
    • no Z-Move;
    • a rather lackluster frontline, seeing as Thunder Punch was redundant on Metagross next to Tapu Koko.
    I figured the Z-Move issue was easier to address and also that Garchomp-3 would eventually sort itself out, like it always does (the AI locking itself into one move makes it incredibly easy to play around as long as your team has good defensive synergy). The thing about a Z-Move is that ideally you want it to be a type with as many super-effective or even normal-effective hits as possible; there's no point in running, for example, Acid Downpour just to pick up a KO on Altaria-3, since most of the time you won't even see it. Tectonic Rage was the Z-Move that most readily came to mind, and with it, Garchomp; this set me up for a neat Koko / Garchomp lead. Still wanting a Ground resist and another way to chunk Steel-types, I looked for Fighting-types which resist Ground, and Buzzwole showed up. I figured it wouldn't hurt to try, and indeed it has not disappointed.

    =====================

    Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Electric Surge
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Electroweb
    - Volt Switch

    Choice Specs Koko is the same good ol' breaker it was back in SM. I found that I clicked Grass Knot basically not at all because even when I was in front of a Rhyperior or Golem I was still paranoid about Sturdy and wanted to switch out, and Grass Knot doesn't even pick up some of the KOs it really should be getting (Gastrodon-4, Swampert-4). Electroweb, on the other hand, gives Garchomp an easier time against some opponents it might be scared of, not only breaking their sashes but lowering their speed so Garchomp can get the jump on them: most Lati@s, for example, come to mind as prime targets. Electric-type spread damage is also always welcomed, for instance against the Sceptile-and-Electric-weak leads Youth Athletes tend to bring disproportionately often. Not much else to say, I haven't really clicked Electroweb much (just twice, I think) but it's probably better than most alternatives.

    Garchomp @ Groundium Z
    Ability: Rough Skin
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Tomb
    - Dragon Claw / Poison Jab
    - Protect

    Standard Garchomp set here. The only oddity on this team is Rock Tomb, which was chosen because I wanted a Rock-type move which didn't miss and wasn't as weak as Rock Slide. Well, Rock Tomb is a little stronger and a little more accurate, so I guess it fit the bill, kind of. In particular, Rock Tomb is neat against opposing Charizard before they reveal if they're X or Y, since you're doing something useful either way: lowering Charizard-X's speed to negate a Dragon Dance or straight up OHKOing Charizard-Y. With that on the set I had to make a decision between Poison Jab and Dragon Claw, and ultimately I figured I'd rather have a consistent single-target damage output over a way to consistently OHKO Whimsicott-4 and Shiinotic-4 (which lose to Metagross anyway).

    Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
    Ability: Clear Body
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Thunder Punch
    - Stomping Tantrum
    - Protect

    Non-Missagross™! Buy yours today, for only 28 BP! Not having to have a heart attack every time I click a move is really nice, and Stomping Tantrum is also a nice touch to bop many Steel-, Electric- and Fire-types that Metagross would otherwise be powerless against. Even without the boost from a failed move, it's basically a Ground-type elemental punch, and gains the Tough Claws boost:

    252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 168-198 (92.3 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 146-172 (88.4 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bastiodon: 156-188 (93.4 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
    252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 154-182 (93.3 - 110.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

    ...actually, I didn't realise these weren't guaranteed KOs until I checked the calc. Guess I should look into that.

    Buzzwole @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 52 HP / 108 Atk / 4 Def / 180 SpD / 164 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Leech Life
    - Ice Punch
    - Rock Tomb

    SPEEDY Buzzwole is a really funky set. I know what you're thinking: "But Level 51! The tier at 119 only has set 1 and 2 Pokemon, and the tier at 118 is empty! Why not drop 16 EVs to go down to 118 speed?". Or, well, maybe you weren't thinking it, but you're thinking it now! Isn't psychosuggestion wonderful?

    Anyway, at 120 speed stat Buzzwole outruns the entirety of the 179/178 speed tiers at -1, after Koko's Electroweb or Garchomp's / Buzzwole's Rock Tomb. That's no insignificant feat, since it encompasses the base 111s and 110s: Thundurus, Tornadus, Archeops, Raichu, Espeon, Lati@s, Mega Gallade, Mega Metagross, and a bunch more stuff. On the defensive side, it survives Volcarona-3's Overheat and Alakazam-1's Psychic, the same benchmarks as kneeshoeshoe's Buzzwole from his 572 streak.

    =====================

    I kinda just posted this because I wanted to be the first to hit some kinda milestone, so there we go! The team is probably pretty suboptimal and upon reviewing its calcs and everything I'm seriously not sure how it's made it to 100. I guess that shows that anything can hit 100, lol. I'll probably be back soon enough with a loss post, since I don't really expect much of the team.

    Videos:
    #052: HTFW-WWWW-WWW9-UFRR: Buzzwole is good (plus: me playing really badly)
    #099: JDSG-WWWW-WWW9-VTBH: Registeel-4 is scary (plus: me playing really badly)
    #100: HVUG-WWWW-WWW9-VTC8: 100. yay (plus: Wally having the easiest sets possible)
    CTNC, JustinTR, Josh C. and 6 others like this.
  13. ReptoAbysmal

    ReptoAbysmal

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    448
    I’ve never used Stomping Tantrum even once, so you look to be a good means of understanding it better- evidently Protect blocking doesn’t give a boost, but what about missing? If not misses, what does that leave besides immunity? I figure absorption doesn’t count, either, since the move is technically still registering.

    I’ve never been drawn to the move specifically because it looked too situational for its learnbase, but if it gets peoples’ approval...
  14. Worldie

    Worldie

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2017
    Messages:
    452
    If you are bored enough the Mechanic Research topic on the USUM section has plenty of data on Stomping Tantrum specifically.
    ReptoAbysmal and Level 51 like this.
  15. ReptoAbysmal

    ReptoAbysmal

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    448
    Was happy to see the snide remark with the bulbapedia article was basically ignored, because the article is too vague.

    Even happier to note the fairly long list of procs. I’ll have to use it where it’ll fit!
  16. Meleeace1478

    Meleeace1478

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    I have been trying out Kommo-Z the last couple days.

    My early thoughts are that it has potential in Singles, but you need to go mixed to get an acceptable fighting move, probably Close Combat to go with Clanging Scales, Flamethrower, and Flash Cannon. I have just been using the Modest one I had with Focus Blast until I feel like breeding a new Kommo-o. I seem to rarely need the Fighting move, so maybe Drain Punch would be a decent choice as well.

    Not sure whether it is best to drop Def, Sp. Def, or Attack though.
  17. Worldie

    Worldie

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2017
    Messages:
    452
    Considering Kommo actually has a solid bulk, I was wondering if going with neutral nature (yes, you heard it) in order to be running Drain Punch on top of the spatk coverage would be a good plan.
  18. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2,066
    So after I got to the Battle Tree in Ultra Sun, I started putting a revised form of the Aron team I used a while back to work:

    [​IMG] (M) @[​IMG], Relaxed, Pressure
    EVs: 252|0|4|0|252|0 / IVs: 31/30/31/31/31/0
    Night Shade | Brick Break | Pain Split | Trick Room

    [​IMG] (F) @ [​IMG], Bold, Sturdy
    Lv.1 Stats: 12|5|7|5|5|5
    Endeavor | Protect | Toxic | Iron Head

    [​IMG] [​IMG] (M) @ [​IMG] , Quiet, Pixilate
    EVs: 252|0|4|252|0|0 / IVs: 31|0|31|31|31|0
    Hyper Voice | Psyshock | Shadow Ball | Swift

    [​IMG] (M) @ [​IMG] , Brave, Intimidate
    EVs: 252|252|0|0|4|0 / IVs: 31|31|31|xx|31|0
    Fake Out | High Jump Kick | Crunch | Detect

    The main edits I made were changing the Trick Room setter and Scrafty's held item. Hitmontop was used briefly on a separate run in Pokemon Sun, but wasn't as good as I had hoped; it did help with my old team's Fighting-type weakness, but introduced a new issue in the form of being just a bit too fast. Needless to say, it was out. I went ahead and started breeding for a Dusclops to use in place of Porygon2 to rectify the Fighting-type weakness, while putting Scrafty back on the team carrying Darkinium Z instead. Dusclops helped quite a bit, mainly in the form of being extremely slow and, much like P2, extremely bulky. Darkinium Z Scrafty is a major help for lots of Bullshit Powder Bright Powder carriers/Double Team users like Latias and Cresselia; those two used to be real pains given the resistance to All-Out Pummeling (and, in Cresselia's case, barely taking anything from Sylveon's Swift). Dusclops EVs are best explained by laziness.

    Problems that definitely still exist: Z-moves and Scizor (also Skarmory to a lesser extent; mainly have a hard time handling Steels that don't have a Fighting weakness). Not a whole lot to do about Z-moves; those nerfed Aron hard and there's really not anything that Aron teams can do about that. I'm currently considering replacing either Sylveon or Scrafty with something with either Fire-type STAB or a decently powered Fire-type attack that would better equip the team against Pokemon like Scizor and Skarmory, as I currently depend a little too much on Endeavor to deal with those. Alternatively, breeding a Hidden Power Fire Sylveon would help, although HP Fire is a bit on the side of "really really weak." I might just do that, especially seeing as Shadow Ball hasn't seen any use as of yet.

    I already got this team to 50 wins in Super Doubles and am now trying to bring it past my old record.
  19. ReptoAbysmal

    ReptoAbysmal

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    448
    I'm pretty much sold on the concept of Lonely Stakataka instead of straight up Brave. Doesn't change its primary allure as Skill Swapper, but by using Lonely nature and intentionally soft resetting for ≤15 Defense and preferably 0 speed, it allows it to get attack boosts when actually killing things. I planned to get a Sassy one for an entirely support set, anyway.

    Unfortunately from what I've read, it seems the game forces you to deal with the new UBs before even reaching the IV checker, but the numbers are easily tracked. 240 Def or lower and 20 speed for that lovely No Good IV. The difference between Brave and Lonely for speed is a measly 2 points at lv50, an acceptable trade.

    Thoughts, Worldie? Would you rather use Staka exclusively for support and not a little more offensively?
  20. Potatauros

    Potatauros

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Just an FYI, you can knock them out and come back to them later to catch them. Also, good luck to you with the IVs, it's the same odds as 5iv was in gen 6 :/
  21. ReptoAbysmal

    ReptoAbysmal

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    448
    I've SR'd a pretty large number of legends over the past few games trying to get them with 0 IVs. It's not a big deal by this point. I have incredible patience when it comes to waiting for things I want. (or maybe just stubborn determination, but whatever.)
  22. Potatauros

    Potatauros

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Well, 0ivs is fine, but it's the 14/15 ivs that really blows, that's like one in 1800, and each reset takes a tad longer than a shiny hunt due to having to wait out the animation to use the speed checker mon.

    I've reset two 5ivs in oras, and it was one of the most monotonous things I have ever done. I am SO glad bottle caps exist.

    I'm probabaly going to reset for a stakataka too, because at least GF won't make the resets redundant with a new feature.

    If you do end up making a team with him on it, I'd love to see it :)
  23. Worldie

    Worldie

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2017
    Messages:
    452
    Personally since I'm very likely going for Skill Swap either ways, the 15 lonely isn't a necessary idea.

    I did obtain one from the GTS (no clue about the other stats, i know it's < 5 spd and 15 or so def) but I don't really plan in using it.
  24. HeadsILoseTailsYouWin

    HeadsILoseTailsYouWin

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Messages:
    722
    Confirming that the Agency actually does have proper streaks and uses the same sets as Tree. (I did 2 battles with Gliscor4/Scrafty2/Magnezone3). Trainers have similar names to tree trainers in SuMo (Preschooler Rocky still has a sun-focused team of set 1s). Not sure if anything special happens at 50, but NoCheese you should probably add leaderboards for Agency, as it's fun as hell.

    Everyone get hype for the factory we didn't need, but the one we deserved.
  25. Brucolac

    Brucolac

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    One question:
    Are all of the new Pokemon Naganadel, Stakataka, Blacephalon and Zeraora available in the tree?

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