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BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Tobes, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. NoUserName

    NoUserName

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    @ alkinesthetase

    It was you when I said that too lol:

    About Meloetta, I used her with TBolt because I was trying her, I didn't think too much about what to put on her.

    ResTalk Heatran with Shed Shell... It helped me a bit when, in the lategame to recover health against Ninetales, Venusaurs or Genesect without +1 in Sp Att, and also with having a Sleep Absorber, but I think it isn't too good and maybe worth of it, specially with the new sleep mechanics.


    It surprised me the answers, I almost play only in tournaments in where only two players used against me Dugtrio(in a team which seemed Lavos Spawn's sun, with Gene, of course and the other the typical rain offensive team with Tornadus-T, Gene and so on) and I don't count the bunch of random players of the ladder of Pokemon Online server when clicking Find Battle button which anyone used me the Gothi or Dugtrio.
  2. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    Scarf Genesect is good, but not as good as it seems to be. With a 99 base speed, and the fact that Bug + Ice + Fire + Electric still fails to cover Volcarona, Terrakion and Heatran, Genesect is not as good of a revenge killer as it initially seems to be. Fantastic coverage =/= best revenge killer. There are other things that you must consider. To sandstorm teams for example, Landorus and Stoutland are better revenge killers (though I sincerely prefer Landorus). They lack that amazing coverage; but their sheer power compensate for this; as they don't need to hit things super-effectively to actually defeat them. Plus Landorus doesn't miss killing Volcarona and Terrakion.

    I think that there are better ways to exploit that fantastic coverage. My favorite is to slap an Expert Belt. Since many assume that Genesect is Scarf, EB Genesect has been excellent to me, almost always getting me one or two extra kills per match. The opponent doesn't see it coming until it's too late.

    Speaking of Dugtrio, I also don't seem him that much. This is good news as now both Heatran and Tyranitar are safer to use. Dugtrio really only saw a lot of usage because of Genesect, otherwise Dugtrio wouldn't be as omnipresent as it was.
  3. NoUserName

    NoUserName

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    Giga Drain Venusaur also helps Dugtrio usage since using EQ in Venusaur for a single mon is a waste of moveslot(I tried it)

    I wouldn't call Stoutland a very good revenge killer because it relies of having Sandstorm active. Despite that it is useful if mantaining sandstorm up.
  4. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    Stoutland in fact isn't a very good revenge killer because of this. What I tried to say is that its sheer power is generally sufficient to OHKO/2HKO most things; it doesn't need to rely on coverage to do this. But in fact, I was wrong, Genesect is actually better than Stoutland even on sandstorm teams, as it actually has resistances, has U-Turn and isn't screwed by the lack of sandstorm.
  5. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Scarfed Gene's only merits is that it can revenge kill stuff with download + coverage. It's a crappy scarfer BECAUSE of its shitty speed tier, meaning it can revenge kill less since anything over base 100 with a scarf pretty much beats it 1v1. You need faster scarfers to fulfill a proper revenge killing role since Venu will probably outspeed and kill you otherwise, or simply faster scarfers.

    Don't get me wrong; Scarf Gene has merits. I'm just not impressed.

    EDIT: Once upon a time, a user named Shurtugal got so bored that that user actually used Scarf Ninetales and ended up trolling every Scarf Gene noob known to mankind. Because of this bored user, its usage decreased on the higher ladder...
  6. NoUserName

    NoUserName

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    With Bug Buzz Scarf Gene doesn't have to worry too much about coverage.

    Chlrophyll Venusaur is impossible to outspeed in Sun when 252 Ev in Spd and +Spd 30 Iv for HP Fire, except by things faster than 378, almost nothing viable in OU.
  7. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    scarf lati@s viable in OU; so are scarf'ed terrak / keldeo

    also, gene just ensures you're weak to them. most teams have to have a check for venu if HO

    unless you're reffering to timid, which is seldom used, but admittingly effective '-'
  8. Wizarus

    Wizarus

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    Could have sworn good players are using Timid these days.
  9. NoUserName

    NoUserName

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    I said +Spd, so, mainly Timid.

    Ok, I forgot to answer this:

    She has almost to use Perish Song to defeat it or CM by itself and even in this case CM Psyshock which never uses it defeats her, but the most important, CM Reuniclus is pretty rare since a very time ago. That shouldn't exclude that it's a threat, but it's preferrable to cover common threats than pretty rarer ones. Anyways CM Reuniclus has a hard time against offensive teams with the absourdly huge power these days. Only stall should be worried about it and not that much since I said, it's pretty rare.
  10. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    Timid Venusaur is absolutely effective, and I say moreso than Modest. Unlike what is said on the Smogon on-site analysis, I didn't ever missed the extra power. But I never missed the ability to outpace +2 Cloyster and Scarf Terrakion/Lati@s is certainly a big plus. The less things that can revenge kill you, the better. Also, Timid doesn't impede you from 2HKOing the pink blobs with a +6 Giga Drain. I don't even know why it's not listed as the main nature on the Growth set. Seriously, is there any benefit that you get with a Modest nature but not with a Timid one? Is there something that you don't OHKO if you run a Timid nature but you OHKO if you run a Modest one?
  11. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    just saying that the blobs have this weapon called twave
  12. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    Not all of them carry Thunder Wave. Even then, they can't do much outside of this, as Thunder Wave doesn't prevent Venusaur from using Growth and then 2HKOing with Giga Drain. You must paralyze Venusaur while predicting if it's going to attack (switch on the wrong attack and you die) and switch to something that can beat it while it's paralyzed.

    Outside of this, as they can't Toxic Venusaur, just freely boost until you reach +6; and then proceed to sweep while regaining the damage lost from Seismic Toss.
  13. superbadd

    superbadd

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    Has anyone been using ditto lately? Due to how offensive the meta is, I would assume it would rise in usage.

    I use a ditto/goth combo, and they're excellent. Ditto fucks with HO teams like its no one's business and goth does a great job at removing those pesky cores in defensive teams.
    I use them along side DS espeon and amazing wallbreakers like terrikion and hydreigon to just plow through the opposing team.
  14. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

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    I use Ditto. He's the perfect revengekiller, and they're starting to be required for the Stall teams I employ. To be able to copy potent wallbreakers like Lucario, Terrakion, Sharpedo, and Landorus-Incarnate is actually a very key thing to do. Anything that already set up on someone else no longer can guarantee the victory for the player who used the set up sweeper.
  15. NoUserName

    NoUserName

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    I was thinking to use Celebi with TW and Specially Defensive, better typing, instant recovery, and better ability for a defensive mon.

    Losing the ability to counter Gengar, but better overall.

    Edit: Mandibuzz is also a Gengar counter except of whom have Thunder, the dark bird offers instant recovery, WW and Taunt. Inmunity to Sand damage is nice, but annoying not Inmunity to status by switching and SR weak(the worst)
  16. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast (im)patiently waiting for SPL
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    A new DW area is out. Notable additions: Iron Fist Gurdurr, Leaf Guard Roselia (Technician Roserade), Run Away Wumple. A bunch of Hidden Hollow Pokemon have been released as DW Pokemon too.

    Discuss.

    Roserade can finally run an offensive Spikes set, since Leaf Storm and Spikes are illegal together.
  17. BlackLight

    BlackLight

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    Roserade being able to run a full out offensive Spikes set à la Leaf Storm is, imo, the most notable thing for OU. Conk with Iron Fist will be decent, but it doesn't give Conk any real new things it can do. Roserade, on the other hand, has a new niche, although it does have competition with Deoxys-D for a spot, and we all know that Deo-D is completely solid when it comes to Spiking. Still, Roserade has better typing, imo, so it could see some use for a neccessary resist.
  18. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    Yes, I would agree that Roserade poses some sort of competition with Deoxys-D for a lead Spiker role. However, I feel like Deoxys-D has the upper hand in the contest. The only notable benefits that Roserade receives are that it can use Sleep Powder to disable unwary foes, and hit opponents hard with Leaf Storm. Deo-D doesn't have access to Sleep status (though it can use Thunder Wave, arguably more useful), but it can use Psycho Boost, a move the same as Leaf Storm in all but type; however, Deo-D's mediocre base 70 Special Attack pales in comparison to Roserade's base 125. Deoxys-D, though, is bulkier, allowing it to live more hits. It also has access to the coveted Stealth Rock, meaning it's not limited on the type of hazards it can lay down. It can also use Taunt and Magic Coat, both valuable options for a lead position Pokemon that Roserade lacks. All in all, I'd say Deoxys-D outclasses Roserade by a slim margin, though the latter is still definitely worth using.

    Iron Fist Conkeldurr isn't all that notable, since Guts is by far its best ability, allowing it to get a boost from status like Burn, instead of being crippled by it like most physical attackers. Despite the extra kick for Conk's Drain Punch, Mach Punch, and Ice Punch, I expect we won't see much of this ability.
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Sweet!!! An offensive Roserade with Magical Leaf / Grass Knot, Spikes, HP Fire, and Sludge Bomb / Weather Ball / T-Spikes may prove as a good offensive spiker. SubPunch Conk with Iron Fist also sounds very cool (i thought he was alrdy released)!
  20. Ithilanor

    Ithilanor

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    Roserade still can't run Spikes+Sleep Powder by my reckoning...they're still incompatible egg moves.
  21. Magik

    Magik

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    Too bad roserade didnt get acid spray to abuse technician
    The move that does 40 bp poison type damage + lowers foes sp def by 2 stages

    And conkeldurr is way better with guts..
    Besides iron first doesnt even boost 50% only like 20-30 (correct me if im erong XD)
  22. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    Iron Fist is only a 20% boost, but it's the most feasible Ability to run for a SubPunch set. Sheer Force would only boost coverage moves and Guts requires you to sacrifice survivability, which obviously isn't an option with a Sub set. And Mach Punch is a guaranteed boost for virtually any move that Conkeldurr would move except Payback.
  23. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    I would like to ask to you what move is currently the most useful on Jirachi as of now: Body Slam or Thunder Wave.

    I generally prefer Thunder Wave because it is guaranteed to paralyze the opponent, as long as it isn't a Ground-type or is named Jolteon or Thundurus-T. The problem is that these threats are actually very relevant, moreso than Ghost-types, and paralyzing Dugtrio is an internal desire that I have to flinch those moles that think that can trap and defeat my Jirachi to death.

    However, Body Slam is many times unreliable for me, especially if the opponent is NOT a Ground-type or has Lightingrod/Volt Abosrb. Not being able to paralyze Ghost-types is a shame, but as of now this was only a real problem when fighting against Gengar. If I am giving up the warranty to paralyze the opponent for the ability to paralyze Ground-types or things with Lightingrod/Volt Absorb, I expect Body Slam to not disappoint me most of time, but sadly, it does. Also, while Jirachi can paralyze Ground-types with Body Slam, most of them can still threaten to kill Jirachi with Earthquake, so if Iron Head doesn't flinch (while it's unlikely to occur, but CAN happen), it's destroyed by Earthquake. This doesn't occur with Ghost-types, because most of them are unlikely to defeat Jirachi in one move, except Chandelure and Golurk, and those aren't common. Also, three common Ground-types, Gliscor, Landorus-T and Hippowdon, don't care much about paraflinching, thanks to their high defenses.

    To you, what move is currently the better? Body Slam or Thunder Wave?
  24. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    I prefer Body Slam as it can paralyse a much larger range of Pokémon. Being setup fodder for things like Thundurus-T/Landorus-I just isn't ideal in the current metagame, so make sure you pack solid counters to those if you plan on using Thunder Wave Jirachi. You may not be able to safely paraflinch them, but at least you've crippled them for the rest of the match. Gengar can't really do much to it anyway, outside of getting SDef drops on it with Shadow Ball/disabling Iron Head. As for the other ghosts - they generally pack Will-o-wisp so trying to paraflinch them to death isn't exactly the smartest option.
  25. BlackLight

    BlackLight

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    I run Tinkerbell Celebi alongside Jirachi with Body Slam as a paralysis duo, but when I don't, I use TWave on Jirachi. Both of them have their uses, so I'd just use them depending on your teammates. Like, if you have ways to beat ghosts, Body Slam will be worth it, while if Grounds aren't a problem, Thunder Wave is better option.

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