1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

CAP 10 CAP 10 - Final Product

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by Beej, May 2, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Beej

    Beej
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2008
    Messages:
    574
    Well guys, we're finally done. CAP 10 is over, and the result is Krilowatt, an Electric/Water-type shrimp that can be customized to handle a wide variety of threats by way of held item, EVs, nature, moveset and ability. If we say that we ended on May 2nd (we started on February 28th), then this CAP lasted exactly nine weeks. This isn't particularly fast compared to previous CAPs like 9, which lasted six weeks, but all in all I'm satisfied with the length of this project, and I think that if I had sped it up more, it would have been rushed. I would now like to take this time to reflect upon some of what occurred during this CAP, including what I've learned.

    ---

    I've been around for a good number of CAP projects, and in all of this time, I've had a chance to see many drastically-different interpretations of what makes a good project and the results have varied a good deal. There have been CAPs that have historically been considered "the best" or "the most successful", and there are ones that have been considered overall less successful, or even bad. Being around a long time and being opinionated, I've never hesitated to use my observations to come to my own interpretations of the merit of previous projects. As such, my run for TL was largely motivated by a desire to have an opportunity at managing a CAP project my way, and see if many of the conceptions I had acquired from sitting back and watching could actually be applied in practice.

    Needless to say, being TL for CAP 10 has taught me a hell of a lot, not just about competitive Pokemon, but also about what makes a "good" CAP project. Most of these interpretations have been based off of whether or not the actual Pokemon that resulted from the project is broken or sucks or whatever. I used to be among the first to call a project worthless because the Pokemon that it resulted in had some flaw that seemed extremely obvious to me. Not being the head of those projects and not being involved in every facet of their creation made it really easy to pick them apart.

    So what does make a good CAP? I think it's the level of discussion and debating within the actual project that makes the CAP. I will be the first to admit that many of the heated arguments that went on during this CAP, in which either side often presented their preference as the end-all choice, I was legitimately moved and scared, and I have definitely thought and sometimes worried about the legacy that my particular project would leave. But this is part of what makes CAP so great. A good example of a CAP that I once questioned in terms of merit would definitely be Pyroak. The end result of that project seemed terribly underwhelming to me, and it was the quintessential example of people like me complaining about issues that seem obvious now flying over people's heads at the time. But after running CAP 10 and dealing with a lot of conflicting opinions held vehemently, I would say that CAP 3 was one of the most educational CAPs of all time in terms of just how much debating and discussion there was. The end result in tandem with the discussions that went on during that CAP served to provide us with a lot of insight that has proven valuable up to this very day.

    To put it simply, one of the greatest things that I learned from running CAP 10 is the fact that a CAP project is extremely complicated, multi-faceted, and not something you can label as good or bad based on something as superficial as the result. Personally, I'm happy with how Krilowatt turned out, which means that I have done my job correctly. In fact, looking at it right now, I can't really say that there have been decisions in this CAP that I outright regret. However, would I be extremely surprised if in months to come people pointed out very obvious flaws in its design, and noted that it could be much more competitively cohesive if certain things were done differently? Not at all. I don't think there has ever been a CAP where the resulting Pokemon's merit has been completely unquestioned, and I originally thought that this was because the TLs were shortsighted or messed up. Now I have realized, in the wake of polarizing debates such as the allowance of Magic Guard and the issue of primary typing, that this is actually because CAPs inherently have controversy in them, and these debates are often carried off into playtesting in the form of conceptions.

    So now that this CAP is over, and the playtesting will begin, I feel that I can sit back and watch how my creation is taken in by others without much fear. I've learned so much about the game we play through our discussions and arguments that the results of this playtesting can do nothing but supplement what we've explored with evidence that will prove or disprove our hypotheses. My CAP may very well turn out to be very successful in what it does, and fit its concept perfectly. But it were to have clear flaws that others might look upon and think are obvious, like maybe some other skill it has would overshadow its ability to be a utility counter, or it would simply suck or be broken, I wouldn't be all that upset, because I ran the project in the way that I felt it should be run, and I'm satisfied with the results. If there's anything I would say to to future TLs to advise them on how to run a project, I would tell them to make choices that result in as much discussion and debate as possible, and on a high level, as this is the ultimate basis of education within a CAP. But I would also tell them that even though it's important to be careful when running the project, and making sure that options that you think are bad don't get into poll slates, it's also important to remember that whether or not you like what you're doing is the most crucial thing. There are always many different opinions as to what is the end-all component of a CAP that makes it fit its concept or fall apart, and a lot of people will be making these cases for you to decide, so you're inevitably going to have some people who think it's a disaster. This is not the basis of whether or not the CAP is a success, ultimately.

    ---

    Hopefully some of you stuck with me to read all of that stuff. I don't blame you if you didn't find it interesting enough though. There were times when I found this to be stressful work, but I ultimately had fun with this, and I'm proud of the results. Later on, I might throw in some commentary about how the actual Pokemon specifically turned out, and the relevance to the concept, but right now I'm too tired and I'm not even sure everybody would be all that interested. So without further adieu, here is our final product:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Name: Krilowatt
    Typing: Electric/Water
    Stat Spread: 151/84/73/83/74/105
    Ability: Trace
    Ability: Magic Guard
    Movepool:
    Show Hide
    Level-Up:
    H Night Slash
    H Sand Tomb
    – Bubble
    – Charge
    10. Spark
    12. Detect
    15. Copycat
    19. Aqua Jet
    24. Discharge
    30. Imprison
    37. Confuse Ray
    43. Haze
    48. Guillotine
    52. Perish Song
    55. Heart Swap
    57. Zap Cannon

    TMs/HMs:
    TM02 - Dragon Claw
    TM03 - Water Pulse
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM07 - Hail
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM13 - Ice Beam
    TM14 - Blizzard
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    TM20 - Safeguard
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM23 - Iron Tail
    TM24 - Thunderbolt
    TM25 - Thunder
    TM26 - Earthquake
    TM27 - Return
    TM28 - Dig
    TM29 – Psychic
    TM31 – Brick Break
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM34 - Shock Wave
    TM40 - Aerial Ace
    TM41 - Torment
    TM42 - Facade
    TM43 - Secret Power
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM46 - Thief
    TM49 - Snatch
    TM50 - Overheat
    TM54 - False Swipe
    TM55 - Brine
    TM56 - Fling
    TM58 - Endure
    TM66 - Payback
    TM67 - Recycle
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM72 - Avalanche
    TM73 - Thunder Wave
    TM77 - Psych Up
    TM78 – Captivate
    TM79 – Dark Pulse
    TM81 – X-Scissor
    TM82 - Sleep Talk
    TM83 - Natural Gift
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM88 - Pluck
    TM90 - Substitute
    TM91 - Flash Cannon
    HM01 - Cut
    HM03 - Surf
    HM05 - Whirlpool
    HM06 - Rock Smash
    HM07 - Waterfall
    HM08 - Rock Climb

    Egg Move Stuff:

    Egg Groups:
    Water 1
    Fairy

    Moves
    Ice Shard - Lapras, Seel, Dewgong, Snorunt, Glalie, Froslass
    Mirror Coat – Corsola, Squirtle*, Wartortle*, Blastoise*
    Counter – Breloom, Squirtle (3), Wartortle (3), Blastoise (3)
    Mind Reader – Breloom, Poliwrath
    Draco Meteor – Dratini, Dragonair, Dragonite, Kingdra
    Sheer Cold – Lapras, Glalie
    Poison Fang - Mawile
    Flail - Feebas
    Follow Me - Clefairy, Clefable
    Metronome - Clefairy, Clefable
    Me First - Slowpoke*

    *Chain Breed
    (3) - 3rd gen move Tutor

    Move Tutor:
    AncientPower
    Bug Bite
    Fury Cutter
    ThunderPunch
    Fire Punch
    Ice Punch
    Bounce
    Dive
    Swift
    Aqua Tail
    Outrage
    Knock Off
    Sucker Punch
    Magnet Rise
    Earth Power
    Helping Hand
    Magic Coat
    Low Kick
    Signal Beam
    Icy Wind
    Gastro Acid
    Zen Headbutt
    Role Play


    Misc:

    Weight: 23.4 lbs

    This makes for a 40 base power Grass Knot. I made this decision based on the fact that Nasty Plot Infernape, while rare, is something that Krilowatt should be able to beat easily if it wants to. Even with Grass Knot becoming an unfavorable option, Celebi can still be customized to beat Krilowatt with ease by running Leaf Storm or even Energy Ball in tandem with a move like Thunder Wave, so I ultimately don't see this becoming much of a problem. Shaymin can also use Seed Flare, if necessary.

    Height: 2'4" feet

    With a weight of 23.4 lbs, I consider this to be a relatively realistic height. Small, but not ridiculously small, and it's slightly heavy due to its shell and whatnot.

    ---

    Here's to another CAP, guys.
  2. Plus

    Plus bus
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,403
    well said beej.

    [​IMG]

    :)
  3. Fuzznip

    Fuzznip Hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo!
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,302
    Congratulations Beej! You did a fantastic job running CAP 10.

    In my opinion, the amount of solid discussion we had this CAP made it one of the best projects yet. There was a ton of heated discussion throughout the entire process, such as the banning of Multitype, the ability Magic Guard, what moves this should have, what this shouldn't counter, etc. I thought the discussion was very fun and knowledgeable, two important aspects for CAP.

    Even though there are some traits that I don't like that Krilowatt has, I am very excited to use it during the playtesting period. Well done CAP community!
  4. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,201
    this was a great CAP overall. it was very enjoyable working with you beej, and i hope we get to do it again in the future.

    i anxiously await the playtest.
  5. Midou

    Midou

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    196
    Krilowatt was the first CAP project I was apart of, and I also deeply enjoyed my small part in it, especially primary typing discussion. Btw Beej, did you mean Magic Guard instead of coat?

    It's a shame that I didn't have the opportunity to be more involved with the entire process (I'm hitch-hiking across the states, but I digress). Overall, I'm very happy with how this CAP turned out and look forward to playtesting and its results as others have said! On a different note, any future TLs would do well to heed your advice.
  6. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Well-shuffled and flush
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,493
    Well, this was certainly a fun clash.

    In complete honesty I was a bit miffed how you flitted in and out, but you had stuff you had to deal with. I campaigned hard during this CAP like I do every CAP and while it ended completely different from my original ideas, I think it worked out for the best. I do have a few concerns but I'm sure everyone knows them by now based on what and how I argued this CAP, so we'll see how everything pans out.

    Kudos, Beej.
  7. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,806
    I'm generally satisfied with the way Krilowatt turned out. A lot of things didn't go my way, but I'd like to think that what I had to say played its part in making Krilowatt all that it is right now. That said, I greatly look forward to giving chumps a run for their money in the playtest ladder on the horizon.

    Reading your insight into the TL position has been exciting. It's always interesting to know how it feels from the other side of the looking-glass, as it were. I hope it's been all that you hoped for, and I hope that we haven't given you too much grief for it. :P

    But yeah, cheers! Here's to another great CAP! :toast:
  8. FattyButt

    FattyButt

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    177
    Awesome job! When does the next CAP start? I want to be involved in one from the beginning :P
  9. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,610
    It's been interesting, to say the least.
    I wouldn't say I'm overly happy, but I wouldn't say I'm disappointed - I think you've done the best you can to make each fork in the road as clear as possible. A job well done to you.

    I'd never call any CAP bad or good in any way, but I guess the playtesting will speak for itself!
  10. BuddyBlueBomber

    BuddyBlueBomber

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    759
    After lurking in this sub-forum for a little while, I've come to see how much effort and confrontation it takes for a community just to create a Pokemon. I deeply respect the amount of time that these projects take, and how everyone contributes towards the same goal. Being new to Smogon and its workings, I can only speak through studious knowledge that this CAP turned out very well, and I would like to give kudos to everyone who spent their time helping it along, especially Beej for hosting this CAP.

    I almost feel like I'm intruding on this occasion, having had no experience in what it's like to be in the middle of the CAP process. I can only wish that I could have been a part of the this project myself. Well, I won't spend anyone else's time here babbling, so I give my congratulations to the finished product and to everyone who helped make it happen. Hopefully, y'all will be able to see my input in CAP 11!
  11. Objection

    Objection

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    5,695
    In the beginning, I did not intend to get too involved with this CAP, partly because I was a bit of a douchebag in CAP9 and partly because I don't play competitive Pokemon anymore. Instead, I just planned to watch things unfold.

    However, as early as primary typing discussion, I saw people making claims without backing them up (protip: a claim with nothing to back it up is considered false). I saw people getting worked up about one aspect of an ability or move and completely disregarding other ideas, which is why I made several posts that contained "Here's a novel idea:" followed by an idea. Particularly towards the end, there also seemed to be much debate about how much value a CAP's concept has and I still feel that that question hasn't been answered yet.

    As a result, I ended up getting more involved than I intended.

    The first thing I would suggest for CAP11 is that, in concept assessment, we should decide whether the CAP's concept suggests a sweeper, wall or tank, because every pokemon ultimately fits in one of those three categories and we didn't consider that in CAP10.
  12. Skymin_Flower

    Skymin_Flower It's Seed Flare time.

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    895
    Congrats Beej on leading a successful CAP. Overall I am fairly happy with how it turned out, maybe one or two things were not to my liking, but in general i thought it was pretty good. Again, good job!

    There is also utility. Few pokemon are pure utility, but i am just saying..
  13. Objection

    Objection

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    5,695
    "Utility" kinda comes under "tank" or "wall" I feel. Utility sweeper is rather contradictory.
  14. Skymin_Flower

    Skymin_Flower It's Seed Flare time.

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    895
    Smeargle, Fidgit, etc.
  15. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,156
    I can't really say I got much involved with this CAP, but looks like its going to hit the CAP metagame with a big splash!

    Also this would probably be an excellent CAP Battle fighter (hint hint certain someone)
  16. Son_of_Shadoo

    Son_of_Shadoo

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,958
    Excellent job, Beej, and very well put! It's been an interesting CAP, that's for sure... Can't wait for playtesting :)
  17. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,274
    Perhaps my absolute favourite part of the whole process... to just take a minute to step back and look at what has been accomplished.

    Even if I might not agree with every decision that was made... it's been a great journey and an excellent learning experience. Massive congratulations to Beej, Umbreon Dan (or whatever you're called now) and all those people who kept the discussion on a vaguely human level of intelligence.

    Now for playtesting.
  18. scampy

    scampy

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Messages:
    371
    It's pretty funny that a 2'4'' shrimp has sparked so many discussions and debates. I'm sure that nobody even so much as dreamed we'd end up with a little guy like this when CAP10 first started...

    Great CAP guys, I can't wait to see this guy in action. Bring on the playtesting prawnto ;)
  19. koipen

    koipen

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    52
    I'm pleased how the process went, it was nice to watch the construction of the pokemon. For one, however, I don't like the result as there are are too many things for me that I don't like. We'll see how this turns out in Shoddy.
  20. hitmon64

    hitmon64

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    95
    Great job Beej, Rising Dusk, Admiral Korski, Doug, and everyone else who put work into this. Truth be told, I've been lurking the CAP forum since the CAP 10 concept design thread was posted, and I've watched every bit of it. I hope to work with you guys on CAP 11. Not to mention NU and CAP share the server, so I'll stop in to watch a game or two!
  21. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Programmeris a CAP Contributoris an Administratoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    CAP Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,040
    Fantastic wrap-up in the OP, Beej. I think every future TL should read that. You perfectly expressed the real goal of the project, which has always been to have an interesting and fun project. I also smiled at your reference to CAP3 (Pyroak), because I have always felt that CAP 3 was one of the most interesting CAP projects ever.

    You did a great job running this project, Beej. You were faced with tough decisions the whole way through, and you didn't back down through any of them. I appreciate the way you tackled all the controversy, and did it like a true leader. You considered the project and community over your own personal preferences, which is hard to do in times of duress. You also didn't come running to me or the mods to play the heavy when tough situations arose. You consulted us and asked for advice, but ultimately you made your own decisions and made the tough calls. You owned this project, and took full responsibility for everything. That's a fine character trait, and I'm proud of how you ran things on CAP 10. Good job!

    Thanks to everyone in the CAP community that has participated across the entire project over the last few months. For many people that casually log onto the CAP server or browse the CAP website -- they think we just churn out these pokemon on a whim. Obviously, for anyone that has actually participated in a CAP, you know how much time and effort goes into every creation. And we should all take pride in what we created here with Krilowatt. When we first started CAP10, we had no idea what we would end up with. Even after the concept was chosen, I doubt anyone envisioned an Electric/Water Shrimp with Magic Guard and 150 HP would be the end result! And that's what makes CAP such a great project -- we have no idea where we will end up, but we enjoy the journey.

    Bravo, Create-A-Pokemon!
  22. locopoke

    locopoke indulges in unsavory behavior
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Messages:
    2,805
    I'm disappointed in the sprite choice. For a Pokemon with 151 base HP I would expect something a little bigger, not that tiny thing. It just seems unrealistic.
  23. Midou

    Midou

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    196
    I doubt I speak alone when I love the sheer irony of its size and titanic HP.
  24. Dogfish44

    Dogfish44 Banned from 22 Casinos
    is a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,000
    I'll probably playtest this one, not battled in ages.
    And if you don't like the sprite, you CAN change it to a set of your liking. Just the sprite is the official one.
    GJ guys ^_^
  25. Raj

    Raj CAP Playtesting Expert

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,305
    I'm afraid that Krillowatt will be unable to fit the concept. Anyway, good job Beej, you really impressed me, but you better be a fuckton more active than you have been on the server. We haven't battled since Stratagem playtesting!

    I'm pretty excited for playtesting. When's this guy going to get on our server? And the ladder needs to be reset as it wasn't reset for Colossoil.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)