CAP 13 CAP 2 - Concept Assessment

[Rising_Dusk]

Okay, I really need to post here so that everyone understands. The most important questions we need to address right now are as follows:

Should CAP 2 be offensively inclined, defensively inclined, or primarily supporting? Keeping that question in mind, what is the best mold for CAP 2 to follow in order to achieve sufficient diversity in the use of Sketch and not heavy bias to one mode of Sketch-use over all others?
​

Please focus on this question. Don't talk about abilities, don't talk about specific stats or how fast/slow/powerful/etc CAP 2 needs to be, and don't talk about special/physical bias. It's inevitable to talk about moves, since CAP 2 can learn any move, and they're relevant to the concept at this level.

I currently believe that bulky offense seems to present the best mold, as I mentioned before because of its versatility in options, but not being too heavily biased offensively or defensively such that it overwhelms OU. Please discuss why you agree or disagree with me, or what other possible molds would work. Also, provide examples and comparisons to other Pokemon so that you can back up your statements; we know how other Pokemon operate, and that can help us understand the eventual CAP 2 better.

 

[zyrefredric]

I agree that knowing what are the probable moves CAP2 can dedicate its Sketch to could serve as a good starting point for discussion. For the attack moves I included all moves with very high base powers and are relatively less distributed. TMs are omitted. I know that the list is not perfect, and could be changed.

Physical Offensive Moves
(normal): Extremespeed
(fire): V-create!, Flare Blitz, Sacred Fire
(electric): Bolt Strike, Volt Tackle
(grass): Power Whip, Wood Hammer
(fighting): Hi Jump Kick, Close Combat
(flying): Brave Bird
(bug): Megahorn
(rock): Head Smash
(ghost): Shadow Force
(dragon): Outrage

Special Offensive Moves
(normal): Judgement!
(fire): Eruption, Blue Flare
(water): Water Spout, Hydro Pump
(grass): Leaf Storm, Sead Flare
(flying): Hurricane, Aeroblast
(psychic): Psychoboost, Psystrike
(dragon): Draco Meteor
(steel): Doom Desire

special mention: all priority moves
special mention: momentum moves U-turn and Volt Switch

Non-Attacking Moves
All stat-up moves, specially the ff.: Belly Drum, Coil, Cotton Guard, Quiver Dance, Shell Smash, Gear Shift, Tail Glow, Growth
All status inducing moves, specially Spore, and Glare
All recovery moves
All hazard-related moves: Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, Whirlwind/Roar, Dragon Tail/Circle Throw
All field effect moves, such as the weathers, Trick Room, Gravity and Tailwind
All disrupt moves, such as Disable, Encore, Switcheroo/Trick, Taunt, Torment, Memento, Destiny Bond, Lunar Dance, Perish Song, Wish

My initial impressions:

• offensively, Sketchmon can choose any of the high powered moves that are available, but most likely it's going to use Sketch for the moves Quiver Dance, Shell Smash or Tail Glow.
• defensively, access to all opponent's stat lowering, status inducing (Spore!), and recovery moves could make for a very effective stallmon
• in a supporting role, hazards, field effects and disrupt moves are all available, and each of them have their own merits

I'd say we go for a slightly defensive inclination, because that would allow Sketchmon more flexibility in switching roles. I'd agree that Serperior could be a good mold for this CAP.

 

[Ralts]

Should CAP 2 be offensively inclined, defensively inclined, or primarily supporting? Keeping that question in mind, what is the best mold for CAP 2 to follow in order to achieve sufficient diversity in the use of Sketch and not heavy bias to one mode of Sketch-use over all others?

In my understanding, we are trying to create a pokemon that, with its spectacular niche of unpredictability, can prowess in the OU environment without being easily exploited. Smeargle, although frail, could prowess because of his many supportive roles. However, this pokemon is not a Smeargle. Therefore, I think that the Sketchmon should have a more offensive role compared to supportive. By allowing this pokemon to have access to any move that it wants to fit the fourth slot in its movepool, it can pull off any type of sweep, stall, or even status effect to support itself and the rest of its team (while at the same time remaining somewhat bulky and avoiding frailty). But at the same time, the rest of its movepool would have to be limited a large amount in order for it to prevent becoming overpowered. In my opinion, this pokemon needs to differentiate itself from Smeargle offensively.

 

[Thorns]

realise that there are pokemon in existence with 'perfect moves' for their role

nothing beats dragonite's movepool, for example. he doesn't even WANT close combat, he's got the perfect sweeping set in dragon dance/outrage/fire punch/extremespeed

additionally we have deoxys-s who, with its 180 base speed, has the entry hazards, taunt, and even magic coat...

do not make this cap into another bog standard 'oh look i have good moves and do ___' pokemon. with every move in existence, there has to be a reason why you would use it over another pokemon. i'd check off sweeping as the first thing we want to avoid first and foremost

 

[bubbly]

One thing I want to clear up about the concept: it seems to me that this CAP looks like it will be just filling gaps in a players team. E.g. need a spinner / spiker / sweeper? Use (CAP)! If you give it the stats / typing to pull multiple defensive and offensive roles off, I don't see it teaching us anything about the game except that having Sketch makes teambuilding a lot easier.

To be honest, I wasn't happy that this concept was the one selected. What does it show us? That if people could choose any move on such and such a pokemon, this is what they'd go for? I think a good approach to this concept assessment would be to work out what we want to learn from the project, before we figure out how to do it.

 

[UltiMario]

Speaking of Judgement, since plates decide the type, this CAP will actually have access to a base 100 Power special attack of any type if it so desired. Sort of a waste of an item slot, though.

I think something like a Mixed Tank would be best for this CAP. Something that's offensively and defensively inclined in any direction, just not really good at either. A good example of this sort of spread is Blastoise. His 79/83/100/85/105/78 is rather mediocre in all regards, but Recover could really bring up survivability, its speed is decent enough to Spore stuff, and its offenses are certainly enough to do damage after a Shell Smash, Gear Shift, or Butterfly Dance. But it obviously can't Spore and set up at the same time and become overpowering. If it's using any of these moves, all Blastoise would have is Hydro Pump to hit really hard.

Average spread, limited offensive movepool without a Sketched move, just enough to be a wall, sweeper, or support mon with an appropriate sketched move, and rather all-around in terms of stats. I feel THAT would get the best results for CAP 2.

 

[Nimh Vah Reaux]

Given CAP 2's access to one of any given move and, as Deck Knight said, that move's inevitable ability to define the Pokemon from its selection, I am frankly unsure of what direction that it should take. If it becomes primarily offensive, it runs the risk of opting only to pick devastating attacks or guaranteed status moves like Spore; if it is primarily defensive, as someone (Deck Knight?) has already mentioned, it could easily fall back on Shell Smash or other powerful boosting moves; and if it becomes primarily supportive, it could potentially eschew all offensive inclinations. The balance of this CAP's focus and the move choices likely to be inherent with each focus are definitely going to be key in determining how the project proceeds.

Honestly, I feel as though the potential benefits and drawbacks of each focus need to be thoroughly addressed before an informed decision can be made, especially since every step of this process is absolutely critical in ensuring that CAP 2 succeeds.

 

[Weebos]

Would it be inappropriate to give CAP 2 no inclination?
Just flat stats all around, similar to Mew, could give it ideal versatility.

 

[LouisCyphre]

No matter what, this concept will have to be revisited in a later CAP (perhaps in a later Gen, even) in order to get our full mileage out of it.

I'll answer the stat question first, since it's easiest. I think it should have a respectable offensive presence after an obscene boosting move, such as Shell Smash, but not before. Likewise, a support set should pivot on Spore.

Ideally, the CAP's stats should force the move to define the role. A set with no offensive boosting move should lack the capacity to be offensive, and a set with no overbearing support moves should fail to carry a support burden effectively. Only when the Sketch slot is dedicated to a role properly does the CAP perform that role well.

 

[Adamnsm1]

The entire idea of this CAP is unpredictability. Therefore, we want to make this pokemon capable of running many sets viably. However, if one set is extremely more viable than the other, it will take over and destroy the unpredictability factor that we're going for. Also, even if it runs a multitude of sets extremely well, that would only serve to make it broken. So, we want this pokemon to be able to run a lot of sets about as well as each other, with each at a good medium level. Therefore, this pokemon should be balanced

Most offensive sets will either use one of two boosting moves (Tail Glow or Shell Smash) with maybe an odd Spore, or else run a coverage move, which will most likely be dictated by what gets good coverage with the CAPs STAB. Therefore, the most variety in moveset will be in a supportive/defensive role, and hence this CAP, while keeping a fairly balanced spread, should lean towards the defenisve

 

[Solstice]

Ideally, the CAP's stats should force the move to define the role. A set with no offensive boosting move should lack the capacity to be offensive, and a set with no overbearing support moves should fail to carry a support burden effectively. Only when the Sketch slot is dedicated to a role properly does the CAP perform that role well.

I feel like LouisCyphre really hit the point here, saying that the offensive/defensive/support build question can be answered by having a build that relies on the move. There have been many examples of Pokemon that we could roughly model CaP 2 after, Frosslass, Blastoise, Scrafty, etc. I want to bring to mind Kingdra. Kingdra sits at a nice 75/95/95/95/95/85 set of base stats, equating to a general balance, good offenses, defenses, decent HP and average speed. Now Kingdra performs an offensive role, there's no real question about that, because his movepool and abilities force this upon him, despite the balance of his stats. From my perspective we need to make CaP 2 a balanced mold that has room to be able to fall into any role due to Sketch giving it the option.

While balanced is the way I feel this should go, I should note that a slightly more defensive stance could be taken, to prevent the abuse of powerful set-up moves. Deck Knight mentioned Serperior, who's speedy but has primarily defensive stats (although in DW this is another case of ability dictating role).

 

[Gerard]

I think we should focus on something like the CAP we're dealing with, smeargle sucks as an example cause the only thing they would have in common is one sketch slot, Mew is a better example his movepool is awesome, something this CAP would too (at least on one slot), still his stats... "Mew's got awesome defensive stats, a Speed stat that's "kinda slow" for a sweeper while being "super fast" for a tank/wall, and offensive stats that are decidedly meh", while this poke won't have the chance to get as many moves as mew it balances itself by being able to have every single one on that spot, shell smash, recover, glare, even cotton guard and the like, and like mew he could pull his eight better if it can actually have a change at pulling every one of those moves a chance, being a balanced pokemon with offenses low enough to avoid sweeping everything after a shell smash but wit enough defenses to be able to swich in and out or to come on some determined treath it's something imo this CAP should lean towards

Mew can sweep with nasty plot, but he can (and being porbably his best set in UU poves this) be a huge stall breaker, BPasser, and supporter with wow and recovery make awesome at taking hits, i've seem all kinds of sets with mew, I remember seing a rain sweeper mew (Thunder and Surf with NP) and even one that used Synchronize to make pokes like bulky water poison themselves, and then SR mew who doesnt do the job bad with that nice speed, but all of his sets require to take some move (or moves) and replace them with other to be able to compete with the other supporters, sweepers, etc..., but having the movepool is his adventage, and so is this CAP, a pokemon with stats balanced enough to make every (or at least a good aount of the good moves) options on the appopiate set, and avoid making one or just two moves being the only ones that you'll ever see on that mon, that would completely remove the surprise of the Sketch

 

[ryik7]

To address ryik7's suggestion that CAP2 be "pivotal and diverse, able to take on several different roles", I don't know that I am suggesting that at all. I think we should (and more to the point, will) end up pinning CAP2 down to a relatively limited range of roles. I'm not convinced that Mew is a good model for CAP2, since that could easily tip CAP2 from "strong and versatile in one role" into "strong and so versatile you don't have the slightest idea what it intends at all when it switches in". That, in my opinion, would be overpowered. I think we should choose a basic range of roles for CAP2, but choose this range carefully so as not to make any 2-3 move choices optimal.

To illustrate what I mean, suppose we decide to make CAP2 a bulky offense Pokemon, in the mold of Scrafty. You know that it might Shell Smash, or Coil, or Shift Gear, or it might go the opposite direction and use Glare; this is a wide range of options. At the same time, you are not worried that it will wall two-thirds of your team without giving up a very significant portion of its offensive capacity.

Alternatively, suppose we decide to make CAP2 a wall with almost no offensive capacity. CAP2 might then take any of a gamut of status attacks, or entry hazards, or Rapid Spin. If CAP2 lacks reliable recovery, it might take a recovery move. In fact, it might even take an offensive move good enough to allow it to get away with using only one direct attack. This would be significant versatility in terms of Sketch. However, you would not be under the pressure of knowing that you could be swept or stalled out by CAP2 every time it switched it.

All of this to say, being able to fulfill too many roles would make CAP2 too unpredictable. We want it to be somewhat unpredictable, but within limits that makes it actually possible to deal with.

Yes, I am sorry if I wasn't clear. Anyway, what I was saying is that the CAP shouldn't be directly oriented in any given base stat. I believe it should be able to perform a wide variety of roles but not actually be a tank or an impressive (I'm sorry, is opressive the proper term?) offensive force. What I mean is... well, take Smeargle:

[offensively oriented]
offensive base stats:20/20. It has virtually no offensive capabilities, even with the world at it's fingertips. The goal is to give this CAP the set up abilities to attack when need be, but to not actually be any offensive threat that should be excessively concerned about; I don't wanna imply neccessities, nor poll jump, but if it uses shell smash then scizor should be able to switch in and whack it with bullet punch or pursuit. It's not actually about scizor or the CAPs defenses mind you, but what I mean is that it shouldn't be so powerful after a single shell smash boost or even a belly drum that it's impossible for anything to take a hit from it. (well belly drum is negotiable, depending on how we make it)

[defensively oriented/support]
defensive base stats: 55/35/45. It can't take a hit from anything. This limits it from using a HUGE amount of niches and techniques since it dies after a single hit. A bulky CAP that isn't stall oriented (in other words, not so wally that nothing can touch it ie. Blissey or Ferrothorn against physical or special opponents respectively) would be able to bring a whole new world, a dazzling place you never knew into the game. So many things go unused that using this CAP to the fullest could go as far as simply being because you are more creative than your opponent. Perish trapping is a poor example, it's an instant wall breaker, sweep stopper (if we do it right) and so much more, but it likely doesn't hold a candle to all the things we've never thought about. More so since this CAP, with it's already infinite movepool (although only one at a time) can perfectly abuse any ability we choose to give it. Then again, this usually results in taunt bait, but hey, he can sweep, so it allows unpredictability to do it's work on the opponent, working much like Zoroark.

[support]
speed:75 It's slow. It can outspeed very little. At least it's useful after a boost or something. The CAP supporting abilities rely on speed, though only if it has bulk to back it up. Sorry, I can't tell if I'm poll jumping this by explaining it while associating it with Smeargle's stats and hinting at the CAPs stats (in which case ignore it) but I'm just being frank since were already talking about it's stats. Anyway;

I believe a CAP capable of becoming a potent yet not game breaking (at all) sweeper/offensive mon if not for any other reason than because it isn't suspected of being one, or a defensive staller/defensive mon that can't tank hits to complement sweeping into game breaking status and can stall by using up it's sketch to stop it's enemies, or a support oriented mon capable of fulfilling more roles than we know of if not for any other reason than because you don't know what it's gonna do would be the best way to go. If a pokemon has all moves and stats to use them then the point would be to make it use them, having it focus on any given role and just that role alone would just cause it to use more of the same moves over and over and over again. I don't want to limit it's versatility, I want it to be able to do the things mons wouldn't otherwise be able to do; that is unexplored territory which is the point of CAPs in the first place

also, yes, no individual role/few roles should be used so much that they eclipse others

also, one more thing;

the reason I want the role usage balanced while defensively oriented is because, well, the power creep/general variety in moves. It's simple to see that moves in general are more favorable towards offense and less towards defense, so the moes it gets make sweeping easier as opposed to stalling and walling and supporting

 

[Bughouse]

Should CAP 2 be offensively inclined, defensively inclined, or primarily supporting? Keeping that question in mind, what is the best mold for CAP 2 to follow in order to achieve sufficient diversity in the use of Sketch and not heavy bias to one mode of Sketch-use over all others?

I suggest that we make CAP 2 offensively minded, but with many restrictions. Since, obviously, with one sketch CAP2 can learn any single move it wants... this means that careful tailoring of typing, stats, and movepool is necessary, but I think doable.

For example, CAP2 should not have decent speed, good special attack, AND be water-type. Otherwise we have a CAPmon that would be used primarily as a scarf/specs water spout user. And I don't think the goal of CAP is to make something with only one usable set.

Instead, a useful defensive typing and some bulk, with perhaps not the best STAB is probably preferable so that CAP2 doesn't just always slap a choice item on and try to sweep on its own.

That way, while the sketch movepool includes boosting moves and legendary only moves, there will be enough to work with for CAP2 to run a more defensive/supportive set if it chooses.

 

[GtM]

I think, with the aim of preventing CAP 2 from being one dimensional, it shouldn't have an amazing speed stat. Otherwise, people are just going to slap Spore and a Scarf on it, and call it a day, especially since this thing will probably have the offenses to make a Scarf set somewhat usable otherwise (ie Flygon). I reckon a base speed stat of 60 or below is what we're looking at, so it can't outspeed stuff like Raikou and Starmie with a Scarf and just Spore them. Likewise, this prevents a Quiver Dance / Dragon Dance set from sweeping irresistibly. But idk, maybe just careful moderation of the CAP's offensive capabilities would be more effective in preventing Scarf sets from cropping up.

 

[Tals]

One thing I didn't see mentioned, and I hope this doesn't count as poll jumping, is the consideration that as it only learns Sketch once, you can really temper it's role with it's other move options. For example, the choice between something like Sacred Fire and a booster like Shell Smash becomes different depending on if the pokemon has any sweepworthy moves outside of sketch options. Can the pokemon sweep if it has no moves of high power by default?
Alternatively, if it has default access to moves like Calm Mind or Hone Claws by default, both respectable booster but not in the same realm as Shell Smash or Tail Glow, does this make picking the attacking move over the booster viable too?
If the pokemon knows Yawn by default, is Spore going to get picked less? But then, does the mindgame of "It normally knows Yawn" make it that much more effective when you break the mold and choose Spore and catch the target off guard?

The reason I bring it up now is because it seems to me these are the things we can learn from this CAP, I'm not trying to influence the choices made.

I'm not trying to pin down the moveset now, but offering the point to keep in consideration that what we include and don't include will also be deciders of what choices are good. Is it a good idea to assume a moveset will include good but not the best abilities of lots of different options and then Sketch will be used to improve one of those options.


Also, have we decided how it's going to only learn Sketch once? Is it going to be part of the base moveset and we ignore the fact that the game would let you use Heart Scales to relearn it? Or are we going to say it's an egg move.
As this is the whole core of the CAP, is leaving this choice until the moveset phase a good idea?

 

[Asylum_Rhapsody]

Also, have we decided how it's going to only learn Sketch once? Is it going to be part of the base moveset and we ignore the fact that the game would let you use Heart Scales to relearn it? Or are we going to say it's an egg move.

I was already discussed in the concept submission thread that it would be an egg move to prevent it from being relearned that way,

 

[Tals]

I was already discussed in the concept submission thread that it would be an egg move to prevent it from being relearned that way,

Okay cool, I hadn't seen that it was confirmed, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Baydren]

Should CAP 2 be offensively inclined, defensively inclined, or primarily supporting? Keeping that question in mind, what is the best mold for CAP 2 to follow in order to achieve sufficient diversity in the use of Sketch and not heavy bias to one mode of Sketch-use over all others?

I feel like that we can rule supporting out, at least primarily. If we want a Wish passer, then Blissey does it better. If we want a Stealth Rocker or a Spiker, there are a lot of better pokemon out there. And of course we have the Pranksters in Whimsicott, Tornadus and Sableye. We want this Pokemon to have its own niche (or niches) that I don't think a supporter would provide.

I definitely think hyper offense can be ruled out. Send out a Pokemon that can hit hard and fast and give it, say, Spore, will almost definitely overbalance the metagame. Imagine Haxorus or Excadrill with Spore, for example. Focusing purely on offense would not be a good idea, in my opinion.

Bulky offensive Pokemon like Scrafty or walls that can do a moderate amount of damage like Bronzong I feel would do the best, since they provide the versatility that this CAP demands as well as stopping the overbalancing that this CAP could potentially provide.

Also, one last note that hasn't been mentioned, that I can see: if this CAP has pre-evolutions (as the majority of the other CAPs seem to) and we do end up picking defensively oriented, then an Eviolite pre-evolution should be a factor, as with Sketch, said pre-evo could get Recover. Imagine, say, Porygon-2 or Dusclops. Not the point of the CAP, true, but just something I feel has to be mentioned.

 

[Stratos]

I think this Pokemon must be offensive, like (as Deck said) Froslass.

I might be wrong (I probably am given my CAP history) but the way I understood it this Pokemon was meant to use their one free moveslot to be as unpredictable as possible and thus catch the opponent off guard. Fact of the matter is, your Blissey can be incredibly unpredictable. You can run offensive Whimsicott. But defensive Pokemon don't win games.

With CAP2 (Henceforth referred to in all my posts as Sketchy), our aim is a Pokemon that can use its unpredictable movepool to its advantage to win games. For that to happen, we need to lean offensive. A defensive or support Pokemon could make use of Sketch, but it would just make your everyday defensive or support pokemon. with offensive Pokemon, there is more variety and more room for exploration.

 

[Spork]

Ideally, the CAP's stats should force the move to define the role. A set with no offensive boosting move should lack the capacity to be offensive, and a set with no overbearing support moves should fail to carry a support burden effectively. Only when the Sketch slot is dedicated to a role properly does the CAP perform that role well.

Quoting this again because I think it's one of the most important things that has been said.

Solstice's reference to Kingdra is relevant for another notable reason: its Water/Dragon typing. Kingdra's typing is certainly very strong, but it is also very adaptable; it has the resistances and lack of weaknesses to be a bulky type, the offensive coverage (under rain, particularly) to sweep outright, and the 4x resistances to be a simple defensive pivot, support mon, or set-up sweeper. I think we should be looking for such a type combination for CAP2 to really support its multiple roles - if at any stage we are going to 'nerf' it, it shouldn't be at the typing stage.

Movepool will be the most important stage, probably. What we give to the level up movepool or TM movepool is extremely important in defining the roles it will be able to fulfil. If we give it baton pass in its level up movepool, for example, it will be able to pass everything; however, if we forego baton pass and give it a few good boosting moves - swords dance, calm mind etc - then it can still function as a decent baton passer, just a limited one. And this is the conversation we need to have at every step, with every major move consideration - do we want it to be bad, good or great at this role? Will putting this in its level-up movepool break it? Offensively, at the moment, I say it should be given strong STAB moves at the very least, so it has at least potential to be a set up sweeper.

We should also look at the possibility of giving it a second egg group - obviously it has to be in Field to be able to breed with Smeargle (the only canon way of learning Sketch once it seems) but we could give it various quality egg moves that aren't available alongside Sketch - this allows us to really tailor the process, allowing move x and move y together, but not move x and move z.

 

[RotationalBasis]

Well there are excellent cases for both sides of the offensive/defensive split, and much reasoning against this pokemon being too fast/powerful/defensively unbreakable. Looking particularly at Ryik7's analysis of Smeargle's stats, can we agree that the CAP pokemon should have base stats between Smeargle's (BST:250) and Mew's (BST:600) - by which I mean middling stats, and be mostly balanced with either a slight offensive or defensive bias? I don't mean to suggest that's anything like a final concept or poll jump, but can we confidently eliminate the outward extremes?

If we give it baton pass in its level up movepool, for example, it will be able to pass everything; however, if we forego baton pass and give it a few good boosting moves - swords dance, calm mind etc - then it can still function as a decent baton passer, just a limited one. And this is the conversation we need to have at every step, with every major move consideration - do we want it to be bad, good or great at this role? Will putting this in its level-up movepool break it? Offensively, at the moment, I say it should be given strong STAB moves at the very least, so it has at least potential to be a set up sweeper.

This is exactly what I wanted to say (but couldn't find the words or reasoning), and I think a similar approach should be taken to each step - core tactics such as phazing, baton-passing, sleeping and sweeping need to be examined individually.

 

[LightWolf]

Looking at the problems specific stat biases cause, going bulky with decentish offense invites Shell Smash as the most likely only option, while if we make it an offensive mon that is fast, we are giving up defensive options, limiting what sketch can do(though it should give a decent variety depending on it's movepool and stats)

I think the most balanced would be a an Accelgor esque set. Well not completely, fact is being fast but not fast enough to just spore just everything in it's way. Being faster makes Shell Smash much riskier due to many now hitting your lowered defenses. Generally balanced stats that are all moderatly good, with speed sticking out as the best one. While due to the very nature of being a support biased speed, it's main options are those moves, but it can do fairly well offensively with coverage moves or boosting moves.

Fact is though, if our options are offensive defensive and support, then which ever we choose, the sketch move will be biased towards the given type. Fact is though, a mon running mad with Spore is much easier to deal with if we mess around with the natural movepool of the mon, than if we tried to fix a Shell Smasher(The mon is bound to have a STAB move or two). So I'd rather move in a direction that we can solve the issues of, removing bulky attacker from our options in my opinion.

 

[RotationalBasis]

Which will be where typing and movepool come into play. The great thing about this CAP is how cohesive the varying elements have to be to make a functioning pokemon - open-minded and fleet-footed thinking will be important.

I won't say any more, but the part I'm really looking forward to is the typing poll.

 

[smallvizier]

1. Should CAP 2 be primarily offensive or defensive or supporting?
2. How do you balance a single of any move in the game on a Pokemon?
3. What can Smeargle teach us about Sketch that will be relevant to creating CAP 2?

CaP2's role

Smeargle already takes on a support role. His main functions are baton passing boosts, and spore/spiking. It will be more interesting if CaP2 takes a different direction.

Others have focused on using stats to achieve this. I believe the movepool will be more limiting. Most support roles require more than one move (e.g. baton pass & shell smash, or spore & spikes) - those we do not specifically provide for in the movepool will probably not be viable.

Balance

Smeargle has much more flexibility than CaP2, but it is still not unbalanced. It is frail in defensive, weak in attack, has bland typing, and poor abilities.

Presumably CaP2 will have different typing (why copy Smeargle?) and more useful abilities, to create difficult choices for the team-builders. It is also likely to have stronger offenses, so that it can either run sets with strong attacks (for immediate power), or a boosting move (for better coverage, but only after set-up).

This leaves us two tools for balance. One is CaP2's level of frailty. This will be a key subject in the stats threads. The other is its lack of specialism. See below:

Lessons from Smeargle

Smeargle's best roles are the ones which other pokemon do badly.

It has a niche as a baton passer because barely anyone can pass Shell Smash or Ingrain. It is only used as a spore/spiker because no-one else has access to that combination.

There are many other roles that it could play, but in each case there is another pokemon totally focused on that goal, which does it better. The same fate is likely to befall CaP2 unless we identify what we wish it to be good at, and provide significant help at each stage of this process so that it can achieve those roles.

I think this is our real balancing factor.