CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 10.5.1 (Movepool Spillover)

[The.Lost.Hylian]

Yeah, and before Close Combat was a move, Snorlax had Selfdestruct, Curse, Earthquake, and Body Slam, back in GSC. Just because we'd be making something that seems powerful doesn't mean the game will end. It just means the metagame will shift. If you haven't accepted that gameplay will change when this Pokemon comes into the server, then you have no reason to be in the CAP project.

 

[Raverist]

Dreamquiver, kindly shut the fuck up and don't piss me off, I'm running out of places to hide the bodies. One would use this to say that Togekiss counters Woodman, and the fact that there are actually more users of Flying moves, such as Aerial Ace and Air Slash to mention the two used, and the addition of Stone Edge as a rock move, coupled with Gengar's ability to get an actually useful move in Sludge Bomb, and you find yourself actually appreciating the weaknesses. If you're going to remain sarcastic here, then kindly hee your opinions to yourself. Sorry if one has offended you, but right now I feel fucked off and need to unleash nuclear hell.

 

[Wyverii]

1. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis
-No, Rest and Leech Seed sapping is more than enough for him to survive.

2. Should "Pass the Kutchie" be able to learn:
-Charge Beam? (Y/N)
-Aromatherapy?* (Y/N)
-Howl? (Y/N)
-Dragon Dance? (non vote)
-Curse? (non vote)

Actually, though more weaknesses would make "woodman" easier to take down you don't actually need it to be weak to a move in order for to hurt it badly and it resists very little. Well anyway most of the reasons for my votes are mentioned by other people. I don't mind if Dragon Dance and Curse go through but I don't think I have the expertise to tell if it'll overpower "woodman". We can always revise if it seems broken.

 

[megalolz]

1) synthesis - Yes

2) Charge Beam - No
Aromatherapy - Yes
Howl-Yes
Dragon Dance-yes
Curse-yes


I don't think woodman is getting charge beam any time soon :p

 

[Jace the Mind Sculptor]

1. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis

2. Should "Pass the Kutchie" be able to learn:
-Charge Beam? No
-Aromatherapy?* Yes
-Howl? No
-Dragon Dance? Yes
-Curse? No

 

[Zerix]

1. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis
-No, Rest and Leech Seed sapping is more than enough for him to survive.

2. Should "Pass the Kutchie" be able to learn:
-Charge Beam? (Y/N)
-Aromatherapy?* (Y/N)
-Howl? (Y/N)
-Dragon Dance? (Y/N)
-Curse? (Y/N)

 

[Darth Meanie]

YES to all but CURSE, defense boosts on that defense and an attack boost? Overpowered/10

 

[User 12783]

1. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-No, Rest and Leech Seed sapping is more than enough for him to survive.

2. Should "Pass the Kutchie" be able to learn:
-Charge Beam? Yes
-Aromatherapy?* Yes
-Howl? No
-Dragon Dance? Yes
-Curse? No

 

[Tsukikage]

1. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis
-No, Rest and Leech Seed sapping is more than enough for him to survive.

Rest is fine, and with Leech Seed, this thing will have plenty of health without an auto-recovery (even if it is only 25% in SS or Hail).

2. Should "Pass the Kutchie" be able to learn:
-Charge Beam? (Y/N)

Most of its counters are flying types and this thing is bulky enough to keep shooting beams hoping for a boost.

-Aromatherapy?* (Y/N)

I wouldn't mind a farily decent Aromatherapist, but I wouldn't be outraged if it didn't get on.

-Howl? (Y/N)

I like Howl, and I thank Chuck Norris that this thing didn't get Swords Dance.

-Dragon Dance? (Y/N)

I'd like this tested, and if it proves to be broken, then have it removed. I'm just curious.

-Curse? (Y/N)

No defense boosts please. It already has amazing defenses.

 

[Mekkah]

I agree, three weaknesses is a shitload. How can we expect this thing to be able to wall anything without Synthesis when it has so many weakpoints?? I mean, seriously, weak to both Flying AND Poison?!? What were we thinking when we came up with this guy's typing???? Those are two of the most frequently seen attack types in the game!! I suppose we expected to give this both Leech Seed and Synthesis, because otherwise there's no way this guy will ever be able to stand up to attackers without them.

Don't troll others with bad sarcasm. Debate in a civilized manner, or don't debate at all.

I really wonder how people think that Synthesis is broken without testing, but if you guys want him to not have it so badly, I guess so be it.

 

[X-Act]

1. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis
-No, Rest and Leech Seed sapping is more than enough for him to survive.

Yes


2. Should "Pass the Kutchie" be able to learn:
-Charge Beam? (Y/N) Yes
-Aromatherapy?* (Y/N) No
-Howl? (Y/N) Yes
-Dragon Dance? (Y/N) No
-Curse? (Y/N) Yes


I've had a hell of a day today at work. Seriously. :(

 

[Karrot]

I really wonder how people think that Synthesis is broken without testing, but if you guys want him to not have it so badly, I guess so be it.

I can't say I don't agree, but my reasoning I posted earlier should explain my thoughts on this:

Honestly, I don't really care at this point, because it will be as useful to this Pokemon as it is to Cresselia (which isn't saying much), but I would still prefer it to be kept off for the sake of not making it look like we tried to throw everything we could into its movepool. In my opinion, keeping it off is much better than giving it a move that is presumably "useless."

It also ties into my last post in the last topic, which was more directed to "overpoweredness" in general:

I have to agree with what Urza says about adaptability. There are some things that are "overpowered," but people adapt easily, kind of like Garchomp in DP or Snorlax in GSC. We'd get over it eventually, even if the Pokemon is "overpowered." I think that this is the main reason why we should be so careful with what goes on and what doesn't; so we can prevent the adapting to a theoretically overpowered something which could eventually lead to the breaking of the metagame without us knowing it, and by then it'll be too late to adjust because then people will just be uncomfortable with the change.

It's basically what we're seeing with Revenankh (with his combination of stat boosting and Shed Skin Rest), if that's a good comparison.

I always thought the CAP Project should only have subtle influences on the metagame. For instance, instead of running HP: Ice of Celebi, you run Psychic to deal with Revenankh, or Sludge Bomb > HP: Electric/Ice Beam on Tentacruel for Woodman. I understand the point of the CAP Project "design, create, and playtest new Pokémon concepts to explore and understand the competitive Pokémon metagame," but the changes should be undramatic and leave enough space for people to get used to the change. For example, the whole weather project can be game-changing, but not in a way that it forces someone to adapt completely to the new environment. I guess it depends on your definition of "subtle."

 

[Fishin]

1. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis
-No, Rest and Leech Seed sapping is more than enough for him to survive.

2. Should "Pass the Kutchie" be able to learn:
-Charge Beam?
-Aromatherapy?
-Howl?
-Dragon Dance?
-Curse?

 

[Mekkah]

Is it me or are you suggesting that weather would be less centralizing and cause for adaption than one single move that you yourself admit is "probably useless"?

The majority seems to think it's broken. If a move is useless in some eyes and useful in others, it should be added.

but I would still prefer it to be kept off for the sake of not making it look like we tried to throw everything we could into its movepool

How does that go for Synthesis but not for its other moves? Synthesis suits him with his typing and all (charging cannons etc), and it also suits his role as a tank.

 

[Karrot]

He already has a lot going on at the moment, and Synthesis is the type of move that can be a staple on any of his other movesets because of its recover effect (and can be added to a moveset loosely), unlike Aromatherapy, Curse, Dragon Dance, and Howl, all of which would have their own specific set.

Is it me or are you suggesting that weather would be less centralizing and cause for adaption than one single move that you yourself admit is "probably useless"?

It was an example. Honestly, I hate the whole idea of adding more weathers to the overused environment, but it seems inevitable, now.

 

[Urza]

honestly, i doubt synthesis will even make it onto many sets pre-auto weather project. type coverage is going to be far more important. and if the auto-weather project actually goes through, the whole metagame will change.

besides, how often do you see synthesis/moonlight getting use? almost never. if it's not recover or roost, it's not worth it.

 

[JimBob]

1. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??

no

2. Should "Pass the Kutchie" be able to learn:

Charge Beam - yes

all others - no

 

[Metallic]

1. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis
-No, Rest and Leech Seed sapping is more than enough for him to survive.

25% recovery in SS, which is very common isn't very useful. Use Cressy as an example.

2. Should "Pass the Kutchie" be able to learn:
-Charge Beam? (Y/N)
-Aromatherapy? (Y/N)
-Howl? (Y/N)
-Dragon Dance? (Y/N)
-Curse? (Y/N)

DD and Howl boost its worse stats (although it's dual physical STAB is very good). Curse would make it too hard to kill, and Charge Beam is just a no. Aromatherapy looks good.

 

[oinkmooblah]

1. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
Yes, more options makes this guy way more versatile.

2. Should "Pass the Kutchie" be able to learn:
-Charge Beam? Yes
-Aromatherapy? No
-Howl? Yes
-Dragon Dance? No
-Curse? Yes

 

[Pombo]

1. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis
-No, Rest and Leech Seed sapping is more than enough for him to survive.

2. Should "Pass the Kutchie" be able to learn:
-Charge Beam? (Y/N)
-Aromatherapy?* (Y/N)
-Howl? (Y/N)
-Dragon Dance? (Y/N)
-Curse? (Y/N)

Yes to bolded ones =D

 

[Karrot]

Just for the sake of an argument, can I ask why people want this to have Synthesis?

 

[Hyra]

Just for the sake of an argument, can I ask why people want this to have Synthesis?

flavor, and to retain some remnant of the concept that he was supposed to be Sun-based.

 

[Topofira]

1. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, Synthesis
-No, Rest and Leech Seed sapping is more than enough for him to survive.

2. Should "Pass the Kutchie" be able to learn:
-Charge Beam? Y
-Aromatherapy? N
-Howl? Y
-Dragon Dance? Conflicting opinion on this one, I'll withold my vote.
-Curse? Y But not with synthesis, if possible.

 

[tgva8889]

How does that go for Synthesis but not for its other moves? Synthesis suits him with his typing and all (charging cannons etc), and it also suits his role as a tank.

1: Name a fire type with Synthesis.
2: Hey, you know what other move suits charging cannons? Charge Beam. You didn't vote for that one, so I don't think you agree with Synthesis on those flavor terms.

That comment doesn't make a lot of sense to me, Mekkah.

1. Should this Pokémon get Recovery outside of Rest??

Don't really care here. No vote, please.

2. Should "Pass the Kutchie" be able to learn:
-Charge Beam? (Y/N)
-Aromatherapy?* (Y/N) Don't really care here.
-Howl? (Y/N) Why is this still here if we're doing a re-count for Dragon Dance and Curse?
-Dragon Dance? (Y/N) Don't really like the idea of a good stat-boosting move.
-Curse? (Y/N) Don't like the idea of a move that will boost both offensive power and defensive power at the same time. Also, it's going to make me think of this guy as another Revenankh, since he'll be doing somewhat similar things, just not as brokenly.

Is this thing just not learning Dragon Pulse at all? I'm not getting that.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Is this thing just not learning Dragon Pulse at all? I'm not getting that.

I haven't noticed the fact that Dragon Pulse wasn't on it's movepool until now. Well I guess it wouldn't hurt if I add that move onto it's movepool.