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CAP 15 CAP 4 - Part 6 - Stat Spread Submissions

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by capefeather, Oct 7, 2012.

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  1. GRs Cousin

    GRs Cousin

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    298
    105 HP / 125 Atk / 100 Def / 115 SpA / 53 SpD / 82 Spe

    PT: 181.7615
    ST: 100.9723
    PS: 180.2455
    SS: 169.6289
    BSR: 352.3244 (Excellent)

    BST: 580

    I attempted the lowest possible BST without making CAP4 too underwhelming. The major risk with this stat distribution is that while it can do a number of things, how well it exceeds in those is situational. I kept Weak Armor especially in mind when I designed this, as we should all be well aware of how much more use Illusion and No Guard will get if we don't have ideal bulk and speed. However, despite Weak Armor benefiting from it, that does not mean that CAP4 does not have a harder time using its other two abilities, as you will hopefully conclude after reading.

    Show Hide
    105 HP and 100 Defense gives CAP4 the chance to switch in and survive an Adamant 252 Atk Terrakion with Life Orb Stone Edge even with Stealth Rock. Without Stealth Rock and Life Orb, CAP4 will survive the Stone Edge. This makes Weak Armor become a viable ability in that you can actually make use of the speed boost even if you mispredict. Ideally however, you'll be switching into something like Close Combat, which even with Choice Band, Stealth Rock damage, and no HP EVs invested, CAP4 doesn't even lose a third of its health, creating a brilliant placement of momentum and a chance to really let CAP4 show how much reward can really come after its risk after all.

    Speaking of Weak Armor, 82 Speed is just the right amount to where one would seriously consider using it above a set with No Guard and Choice Scarf. With maximum speed EVs, positive nature, and Weak Armor's boost, you outspeed anything not named Deoxys or a Speed Boost holder, uninvested neutral natured base 125 Pokemon, +1 Gyarados and Necturna, and by extension, +1 anything else Base 81 or lower, and speed tie with Acrobatics Gliscor (additionally outspeeding any neutral natured base 95 with maximum speed EVs). In otherwords, it's just the right amount to break a number of speed tiers without making Weak Armor unnecessary to use. Bonus points if you want to be extra edgy by slapping a Choice Scarf on a Weak Armor CAP4 to outspeed Deoxys-S and +2 maximum speed Gyarados. We've reached a delicate balance between the three abilities that can easily result in any one of our abilities becoming unused should we miss an important speed mark. Illusion won't be as rewarding if CAP4 is too slow while Weak Armor becomes unnecessary if it already outspeeds too many threats. 82 Base Speed is possibly the most important stat in all of this project because of how much it affects.

    53 Special Defense is both a work of compromise and additional risk for No Guard. By reducing it to the lowest possible without venturing into Below Average territory, I managed to bring the BST down to a modest 580, something I'd hope bmb will find to stand out in all of these base 600 spreads. Additionally, even maximum investments and positive nature (which, honestly, nobody will ever do), CAP4 will always be OHKO'd by Fire Blast and Hurricane, and Thunder, Hydro Pump, and Blizzard if it takes Stealth Rock damage. This helps to further increase the risk in the decision making process of choosing CAP4's ability, preventing what we can from turning any of our abilities into the ability of choice. Its special defense isn't low enough to where it is completely screwed over by special attacks regardless, meaning that the aforementioned moves will not act as overkill and, again, create risk within the decision making process.

    Lastly, 125 Attack and 115 Special Attack brings out the mixed stats we are looking for, favoring physical offense just a little more. I'm pretty sure it's self-explanatory, but if not, the offenses are high enough to where one can make good use of Life Orb or Choice items, but low enough to where boosting sets can honestly be considered using despite their risk. By hitting high marks without matching the power creep, we're allowed for more leg-room in our movepool selection process without being utterly outclassed nor overpowered.
  2. Scoopapa

    Scoopapa
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    972
    Final Submission

    95/110/118/115/57/90

    PS: 167.5236 Very Good
    PT: 199.6877 Excellent
    SS: 179.4401 Excellent
    ST: 100.5097 Above Average

    BSR: 361.8543 Excellent

    ODB: -3.7750 slightly biased towards defence
    PSB: 12.7824 biased towards physical

    BST: 585

    Defenses: 95/118/57

    This defensive spread makes as big as possible a difference between PT and ST, allowing Weak Armor to be used against a wide variety of moves even without defensive investment. This spread can set up in the face of neutral physical attacks, but will crumble quickly to neutral special attacks, creating a nice risk/reward dynamic. The physical tankiness, maxed out within our parameters, makes Stealth Rock management very important, as it is often the difference between being able to set up on a neutral physical attack and being able to set up on a super effective physical attack. If you recall the typing discussion, this is exactly the reason we chose a SR-weak typing for. Here are some calcs to illustrate what this spread can accomplish with no defensive investment:

    0 HP / 0 Def damage calcs (open)

    +1 Adamant Dragonite Outrage vs. CAP4 = 84.6% - 100%
    Scarf Landorus U-turn vs. CAP4 = 38.1% - 45.3%
    Scarf Landorus Earthquake (Sandstorm) vs. CAP4 = 26.6% - 31.4%
    Scarf Landorus U-turn vs. -1 Defense CAP4 = 57.4% - 67.7%
    Scarf Genesect U-turn vs. CAP = 45.9% - 54.4%
    Scarf Genesect U-turn vs. -1 Defense CAP4 = 67.7% - 80.4%
    Scarf Terrakion Stone Edge vs. CAP4 = 83.4% - 98.5%
    Band Scizor Bullet Punch vs. CAP4 = 41.7% - 49.2%
    Skarmory Brave Bird vs. CAP4 = 56.2% - 65.9%
    Adamant Life Orb Breloom Seed Bomb (5 hits) vs. CAP4 = 55.9% - 66.5%



    As you can see, the physical tankiness helps quite a bit with the typing, allowing it to survive many weak and even not-so-weak super effective attacks. This mitigates some of the weaknesses that the typing carries with it, and should make setting up stat boosts or support moves against physical attacks very doable. The Special Defense is not going to be good for much other than resisted attacks, however. Politoed's Scald + a Burn will always OHKO, although it (and many other special attackers) will have a difficult time switching in.


    Offenses: 110/115/90

    The offenses are balanced, allowing either side to be dangerous with boosting moves and allowing for mixed sets biased towards either side. SpA is higher because it lacks a 120 BP STAB, and to help sets utilizing physical moves along with HP Ice or HP Fire. Physical is still the star of the show here, due to the nearly inevitable Megahorn. Sets with mostly special attacks along with physical Fighting-type moves would also work well with these offenses. Going mixed will likely encourage a SpD reducing nature, further increasing the defensive imbalance (probably true of many spreads here). Considering our STABs and the fact that Fighting coverage has been suggested by BMB, the spread is designed to work for Bug/Psychic/Fighting/setup move and Bug/Psychic/Fighting/Hidden Power sets on either side of the attacking spectrum. While the attacking stats are not spectacular, it should have the coverage to hit a large portion of the metagame Super Effectively, and shouldn't need attacking stats much higher than these.

    Physical Sets

    A Life Orb Megahorn can OHKO Scarf Politoed with SR and 2HKO Ferrothorn and SpD Jirachi. Zen Headbutt will cleanly OHKO Terrakion and Keldeo, while uninvested HP Ice or HP Fire can get OHKOes on Gliscor or Scizor. Physically-based mixed sets have enough power to threaten most of the metagame with reasonable coverage moves. Breaking Skarmory will be tough with physical sets, and Gliscor will probably be unbreakable without HP Ice or a physical Ice move.

    Special Sets:

    A Life Orb set can 2HKO a large portion of the metagame. Even without HP Fire, Focus Blast would do a great job of dealing with most Steel-types. Scizor, Skarmory, Heatran, Forretress, and Genesect, will all have their main sets KOed by a combination of Stealth Rock, Psychic or Bug Buzz, and Focus Blast. The safe switch-ins to this set, such as Chansey and SpD Jirachi, will fall to a physical set. Chansey could even be dealt with by an uninvested Life Orb Close Combat.

    As for the speed, I didn't think we needed to outrun tons of Scarfers at +1, but wanted enough speed that low SpD wouldn't just end up becoming a Rain weakness. Thus, I shot for outspeeding Rotom-W, so it can't revenge kill us at +1 using a Scarf. CAP4 actually has a trick up his sleeve for many of the Scarfers that might switch in to counter. Keldeo and Latios face a Super Effective STAB move to the face trying to switch in; Landorus and Genesect can switch in and threaten you, but thanks to immense physical bulk and Weak Armor, they risk giving you a game-changing setup should they U-turn while you don't switch. 90 Spe outspeeds unScarfed stuff at +1 and basically everything at +2, leaving a lot of room for different combinations of boosting moves and abilities; do you want to reach +2 atk +1 spe after a setup turn and weak armor boost, or +1 atk and +2 spe? Perhaps you'd rather ditch Weak Armor and try to set up multiple boosts behind your massive defense? These stats should work for just about any boosting move in the game, so it should do very well at sweeping on either side of the spectrum or at wall-breaking. The key is that you are forced to make tough choices that tend to push you towards one or another role. A mixed or special 4 attacks set should have the sheer coverage to threaten any switch-in, while sets that setup to +2 in either offense can sweep stall teams, but will have more counters. Sets that boost speed and an attacking stat simultaneously should sweep faster teams effectively but will need help with walls. This is in keeping with BMB's early statements that there should be a clear distinction between sets that can sweep and sets that break walls; this spread would render CAP4 able to do both, but not at the same time.

    Just for refence, these are exactly Lucario's offensive stats (he also has 120 BP physical STAB and 90 BP Special STAB)
  3. CiteAndPrune

    CiteAndPrune

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    203
    There's so many spreads going on, and most of them favour high speed. Well, I'm not posting one this CAP, since I'm still new at this.

    But I'd like to voice my support for DarkSlay's stat spread. It's similar to what I was thinking, low Speed and also low HP, which combined with low SDF keeps CAP4 vulnerable on the special side no matter what. High HP would buffer the special side more, as well as generally go to waste by increasing the damage we're taking from hazards, weather, status, and Life Orb recoil. And while some moves can't be used quite as well, others become meaningful on low HP, so it works out in the end.
  4. zyrefredric

    zyrefredric

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    524
    Final Submission

    73 HP / 127 Atk / 133 Def / 127 SpA / 73 SpD / 67 Spe
    BST: 600

    PT: 191.3225 (Excellent)
    ST: 106.7359 (Above Average)
    PS: 155.3438 (Very Good)
    SS: 159.7451 (Very Good)
    BSR: 339.5803 (Very Good)


    67 Speed
    I am of the opinion that CAP4 must have a low base Speed in order for its three abilities to have relatively equal viability. Making it too fast gives too little incentive to use Weak Armour, making the other abilities better choices. The chosen base speed makes this possible. With a +1 boost from Weak Armour, 67 Base Speed allows 252 EV, neutral Spe CAP4 outspeeds 252 EV Jolly non-scarfed Terrakion. This allows it to take a hit, outspeed and KO.

    73/133/73 Defenses
    I would honestly prefer the PT limit to be higher, and the ST limit lower, but we'd have to make do. Anyways, the defenses are designed to have PT as close to the maximum allowed limit, and ST as close to the minimum allowed limit. This makes CAP4 very susceptible to special attacks. As I pointed out in the stat limit discussions, having a completely one-sided defensive capability like Blissey gives an inherent risk to the Pokemon itself. A very high PT allows CAP4 to take neutral unboosted physical attacks, making getting that Weak Armour boost easier.

    127/127 Offenses
    I'd have to say that the imposed PS and SS limits makes having low base speed makes the Attack and Special Attack to be higher than what I would have wanted. Basically the above allows the stat spread to reach the minimum allowed PS/SS. Going any higher is unnecessary. An uninvested Psychic cleanly OHKOs Terrakion outside of sandstorm. I originally wanted to give CAP4 very high attacking stats (>150), for the reason that in my current movepool draft, the strongest STABs it has are Silver Wind/Steamroller and Psybeam/Psycho Cut, and must thus rely on unSTABed moves. But I doubt that's going to be allowed, so it would most likely be getting reliable STAB, and thus I would want CAP4 to have lower offenses.

    So on to the criterion bmb posted in the OP:
    • High HP - Not that high, but that is made so to make CAP4 vulnerable in the special side. Giving it too high HP improves it over-all bulk, rather than focusing on only of defense, which I'd like this CAP to do so.
    • Discrepancy - As pointed out above, the PT is way superior over the ST, and that is made so for a reason.
    • Specialisation - Equal offensive stats allow CAP4 to hit hard in both sides of the spectrum, but it is specialized in physical defense.
    • Speed - Justified above.
    • Aesthetics - This one I really like. I have that nice rounded BST of 600 (which is a first in CAP history). But the stats themselves are beautiful. With 73/133/73 defenses, and 127/127/67 offenses, there's just too much symmetry, it's beautiful! /melodrama


    Note: If you've noticed, I've been using Jolly Choice Band Terrakion as my standard when designing this spread. My reason is that if CAP4 could sufficiently threaten Terrakion, it should be able to threaten virtually all other Fighting-types, which I want this CAP to do.
  5. ShinyDreamer

    ShinyDreamer

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    53
    PLEASE DON'T DELETE, I CONSIDER THIS RELEVANT!

    Okay, I just have the exact same suggestion that I had made before: enough physical tankiness to survive at least one powerful super-effective move, even higher special tankiness, speed that can make use of Weak Armor's boost without actually needing it, and fantastic attacking stats on both sides of the spectrum.

    Exactly what all that entails, I'm unable to create for myself: I don't know how to use a stat calculator, nor do I know what tier we're putting this psybug in or what moves it has to watch out for in that tier. Those of you who are calculating stat spreads, just tell me that you've got what I'm talking about and I'll say that you also have my vote.
  6. GRs Cousin

    GRs Cousin

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    298
    Every spread here has good Physical Tankiness. We agreed that Special Tankiness is supposed to be its weakest stats in the previous thread. Speed that doesn't need Weak Armor but still benefits from it has been essentially every speed stat submitted so far. Every spread here has had very-good to excellent Physical Sweepiness and Special Sweepiness.

    In otherwords, everything you were looking for (save the counter-productive Special Tankiness) was right in front of you if you just looked. In regards to using the calculator, this was my first time using it as well, and it was simple enough. Please do a little more research before you post in threads like these, as the bolding in the start made it clear even you were aware that your post wouldn't be highly looked upon.

    also vote for mine pls
  7. eriados

    eriados

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    402
    Final Submission

    114 HP / 110 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 65 SpD / 101 Spe

    BST: 590


    PT: 192.3438 (Excellent)
    ST: 128.4700 (Good)
    PS: 193.2127 (Excellent)
    SS: 177.4455 (Excellent)

    BSR: 390.8751 (Excellent)

    Things to consider:

    Speed: 252+ hits 331, speed-tying Landorus-I and notably beating Jirachi, Lucario, Rotom-W, Hydreigon, Haxorus, Mamoswine, Dragonite and Heatran. 101 ensures that at +1 (WA boost) CAP 4 can't be revenged by Scarf Genesect, something I wanted to avoid, and that Scarf Landorus-I was not a 100% revenge. At +1 CAP 4 hits 496, comfortably outrunning all unboosted OU. As someone else said, it is important for CAP 4 to be able to do something with a Weak Armor boost. I felt that 101 was an ideal speed to maximize the reward of Weak Armor.

    Lets consider the case of a CAP 4 at +1 Spe, -1 Def from Weak Armor. How hard is it to revenge?
    Some Revenge Killing Calcs (open)

    252 Atk Jolly Choice Scarf Terrakion Stone Edge vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Jolly (custom) : 492-578 (132.97 - 156.21%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Naive Choice Scarf Sand Force Landorus Stone Edge vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Jolly (custom) : 318-376 (85.94 - 101.62%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Timid Choice Scarf Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Adamant (custom) : 169-199 (45.67 - 53.78%)
    252 Atk Adamant Choice Band Dragonite ExtremeSpeed vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Jolly (custom) : 221-260 (59.72 - 70.27%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Adamant Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Jolly (custom) : 243-286 (65.67 - 77.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    As you can see, with WA CAP 4 has a certain set of revenge killers. However, with No Guard, different pokemon deal well with it. Let's use a CAP 4 252+ Atk and LO.

    LO (open)

    252 Atk Adamant Life Orb (custom) Zen Headbutt vs. 248/24/0 Impish Gliscor: 34.56 - 41.35%
    252 Atk Adamant Life Orb (custom) Megahorn vs. 252/0/216 Adamant Scizor: 36.33 - 42.73%
    252 Atk Adamant Life Orb (custom) Megahorn vs. 252/244/12 Impish Hippowdon: 38.33 - 45.47%
    252 Atk Adamant Life Orb (custom) Zen Headbutt vs. 248/216/0 Bold Jellicent: 37.96 - 45.4%
    252 Atk Adamant Life Orb (custom) Megahorn vs. 252/4/252 Sassy Forretress: 26.55 - 31.07%
    252 Atk Adamant Life Orb (custom) Zen Headbutt vs. 252/0/232 Careful Skarmory: 18.56 - 22.15%
    252 Atk Adamant Life Orb (custom) Zen Headbutt vs. 244/0/44 Calm Flash Fire Heatran: 20.57 - 24.47%


    These Pokemon are pretty comfortable dealing with a Physical hard hitting CAP 4. The reason I gave CAP 4 100 base SpA is to expand its options. With No Guard it becomes quite easy to abuse the common high powered special attacks such as Focus Blast. 100 base SpA allows this to be an option for CAP 4, without being the only good option or being too overpowering. In this way I see a versatility to CAP 4 akin to Salamence. Salamence had a number of incredibly threatening sets like DDance, MixMence, SpecsMence, and others. Salamence's good mixed offenses allow it to perform well at a number of roles.

    I expect that the versatility of CAP 4 will play a huge part in determining how successful it is. Ideally it should be able to do well at many different things, each role being defeated by different counters and checks. I hope that my spread can accomplish this to the fullest.
  8. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,287
    So um here's a table of everything so far

    Code:
    User..................		HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe	SF		BST		PT.............	ST.............	PS.............	SS..............		BSR
    
    capefeather........		110	120	99	117	60	94	541		600		185.8419772	116.5716576	194.8938802	193.0895226		390.1675287
    srk1214..............		100	112	100	112	55	91	532		570		175.8824467	100.8373707	178.2836241	182.1137426		355.2770278
    Dusk209.............		130	112	80	125	50	81	461		578		171.1991257	112.2826789	160.3796534	183.1891738		348.6849103
    fryfrey................		100	120	105	120	70	85	469		600		184.3771938	125.4869503	174.1806873	178.1129557		371.6749554
    erisia.................		89	116	115	105	60	100	574		585		186.7886059	100.7843608	197.5573707	180.612032		374.0223319
    Korski	......................	95	99	105	97	80	124	652		600		178.2490185	137.1973078	184.8326434	184.2764839		386.3421467
    uwnim................		121	116	96	111	55	81	461		580		192.9416926	115.6126612	166.1875228	163.2452715		355.8467268
    WebsterVanCooney		110	135	90	135	55	70	369		595		169.6546262	107.8732233	166.664473	170.7838709		340.7779216
    DarkSlay............		75	130	125	105	67	78	429		580		182.7330492	100.0759565	177.3048292	148.3069417		336.4850836
    shstakvchlvr.........		121	105	99	102	48	100	574		575		198.6663052	102.6927154	176.7435712	175.1948804		365.8727467
    meteor64...........		110	124	101	122	61	82	464		600		189.4391663	118.3113445	178.7587164	179.6840171		374.3175889
    BlackHawk11......		95	132	118	120	64	71	405		600		199.6876677	111.6754752	173.0861673	162.0899093		361.4470811
    PokNinjaGuy..........		110	120	105	120	70	75	413		600		196.6335445	133.9685261	159.7110388	164.0035548		366.5401684
    Deck Knight..................	93	111	111	86	58	108	616		567		185.5729354	100.6397885	200.3085391	154.79345		358.0257944
    Admiral_Stalfos19....		55	124	154	114	82	71	405		600		190.5003869	101.8349197	162.8440627	154.6688658		337.4198599
    SubwayJ..............		110	120	100	110	55	80	432		575		187.6405718	107.8732233	164.4736488	155.4458295		341.077242
    Engineer Pikachu...		95	117	115	115	60	83	465		585		194.7402871	105.295017	168.6720849	169.8728104		356.2350886
    FlareBlitz...........		120	105	95	95	50	110	623		575		189.9074984	105.728734	189.7968005	173.3955948		369.4948436
    Mr Holiday............		95	125	105	135	65	75	413		600		178.2490185	113.2705897	166.2157981	183.1196707		357.7248002
    GRs Cousin..........		105	125	100	115	53	82	464		580		181.7615092	100.9723048	180.2455391	169.6289344		352.3243609
    Scoopapa............		95	110	118	115	57	90	503		585		199.6876677	100.5096734	167.5235831	179.4401305		361.8542921
    zyrefredric...........		73	127	133	127	73	67	361		600		191.3224592	106.7359211	155.3438277	159.7450732		339.5802519
    skidilidy............		114	110	100	100	65	101	599		590		192.3438218	128.4699591	193.212748	177.4455235		390.871506
    Mari............		87	139	121	103	73	77	427            	600		193.5545101	119.0149297	189.0224058	145.3350533		361.7009543
    jas61292.............		102	129	112	119	59	79	431            	600		198.8606132	108.8948677	176.5095593	167.0756583		364.5913465
    Shroomtastic........		100	130	112	115	55	88	502		600		196.2698398	100.8373707	199.7637268	179.1806321		380.773348
    
    Well that was fun wasn't it

    So first I'd like to address the whole BST issue, and in particular a few ways that people seem to be interpreting it. I'd first like to say that BST means literally nothing about how strong the Pokemon is - the good folk of #cap have managed to find stat spreads from everywhere between BST 555 and BST 1040 that are perfectly legal... so I don't see what all the fuss is about. That's not to say we *need* a high BST CAP, but please stop treating it as though it's some kind of leprous chimaera. Regardless, all I really wanted to note from my flavour observations was that it is generally more aesthetically pleasing, if you were at 590 or 595 BST, to jump up to 600 as per a pseudo-legendary, or, if at 580 BST, to jump down to 575 or even up to 585 to avoid the horror of the Legendary Trio BST. That's only a small flavour consideration, anyway, which I felt needed clarifying.

    Also the CAP Project has never had a pseudo-legendary and the highest BST we've ever had was 570.

    Anyway I was going to do some specific comments for specific people, but after getting about halfway down I suddenly realised that I was saying exactly the same thing to everybody. Which, on the face of it, wasn't... very productive in the slightest, for me or anyone else. So I'll just say the following here: Try not to have a BST of 580 or any similarly unfortunate number - give or take 5 and it's fine. I am adamant that a relatively high HP stat is best for this CAP, though I have my limits, so I will be favouring those that satisfy this. By the same token, I'd like to see a Speed stat that doesn't border on the ridiculous - that is to say that I really don't see the appeal behind too high or too low a Speed stat. As far as attacking stats go, we know what we want out of these. CAP4 should be able to conceivably threaten any potential switch-in with an appropriate move (of course, this is relaxed the higher your Speed goes - and the appropriate moves do not all necessarily fit together on the same set), so low attacking stats (ie. < 100) aren't really what we're looking for. At the same time, very high attacking stats are equally frowned upon. That's not to say I'm not open to alternative ways of looking at the problem, especially if it comes with good reasoning.

    Two specific comments are as follows:

    @Deck Knight: Your PS is illegal. Please fix that.

    @zyrefredric: I'm pretty sure your spread is illegal - if you look at the OP, 173/73 for physical defence could constitute BSR abuse - using an extremely high HP stat to maximise your overall defensive ability. While the rest of your spread is fine, you really shouldn't be going over, say, 130 base HP (just an arbitrary number I picked that I would consider "reasonable" in this context).

    With that said, I currently have a shortlist of 10 (out of 23 possible), though I will hold off on actually posting it until I am completely satisfied with it (which likely will not be until the 24 hour deadline). Note also that I have a maximum of seven places on a slate. Also, if you want personal critique of your stat spread, post here or ask in PM. There are far too many of them really for me to give each and every one of them an in-depth review, but I can at least make some comments if you'd really like me to.

    Finally, as to when you should expect this to end, generally it will be at least a few days before the TL posts a 24 hour warning. Depending on how many people decide to post stat spreads following on from this post, I may or may not keep to that schedule. Sorry if I'm being unhelpful, but there's really no way to tell at this point.
  9. Mari

    Mari

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    191
    OK, here is my final submission:

    HP / Atk / Def / Spe / SpA / SpD
    87 / 139 / 121 / 77 / 103 / 73


    PT: 193.5545
    ST: 119.0149
    PS: 189.0224
    SS: 145.3351
    Rating: 361.7010

    HP

    4 EV's = 316 HP = 79 HP Substitute
    204 EV's = 368 HP = max Leftovers-Recovery: 23, 92 HP Substitute
    252 EV's = 378 HP = 94 SR damage, 37 Life Orb damage
    I think the HP meets BMBs expectations. See the base HP of other Weak Armour users: Onix: 35, Omastar: 70, Kabutops: 60, Magcargo: 50, Skarmory, Crustle: 70, Garbodor: 80, Vanilluxe: 71. Only Madibuzz' Base HP is higher (110).

    Atk
    Critical calculations:
    252 Atk adamant Life-Orb X-Scissor vs. 252 HP/ 4 Def neutral Tyranitar: 89.6% - 105.9%
    252 Atk adamant no-item Zen-Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252 Def neutral Tentacruel: 85.7% - 101.1% (Life Orb: 111% - 130.8%)
    252 Atk adamant Life-Orb Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252 Def neutral Terrakion: 86% - 101.6%
    252 Atk adamant no-item Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 4 Def neutral Breloom: 111.7% - 132.1%

    Def
    Critical calculations:
    252 Atk no-item Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def neutral CAP4: 81% - 95.2% (252 Atk Life Orb vs. 252 HP / 252 Def neutral CAP4 : 84.7% - 100.5%)

    Spe
    notable overspeeded Pokémon (max vs. max - ignoring nature):
    Cloyster, Politoad, Skarmory, Hitmontop, Breloom, Metagross, Scizor, Gothitelle, Tyranitar, Jellicent, Blissey, Donphan, Forretress, Gastrodon, Ferrothorn

    With +1 from Weak Armour it has 379 Speed and ties with Electrode. Only Deoxys-S, Ninjask, Deoxys, Deoxys-A, and Accelgor are faster.

    SpA

    Critical calculations:
    0 SpAtk adamant Life-Orb HP {Fire} vs. 252 HP / 252 SpDef neutral Ferrothorn: 54.5% - 64.8%
    0 SpAtk adamant Life-Orb Thunder vs. 252 HP/ 252 SpDef neutral Gyarados: 91.4% - 108.6%

    SpD
    Critical calculations:
    4 SpAtk neutral no-item Heatran Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpDef neutral CAP4: 88.9% - 104.8%
    252 SpAtk modest no-item Venusaur HP {Fire} vs. 252 HP / 0 SpDef neutral CAP4: 47.6% - 56.6%
  10. zyrefredric

    zyrefredric

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    524
    I was afraid my original submission might be construed to be BSR abuse. I'm sorry for that, but it wasn't intentional, mind you. I already changed by submission, and hopefully it could be reconsidered. Thanks!
  11. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

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    2,911
    Final Submission (see post 72)

    102 HP / 129 Atk / 112 Def / 119 SpA / 59 SpD / 79 Spe

    PT: 198.8606
    ST: 108.8949
    PS: 176.5096
    SS: 167.0757

    BSR: 364.5913

    Speed: So, let me start by saying that this entire spread was created with only the speed stat in mind. Originally, I had wanted to go with the lower stat of 65, but due to the requirements of the spread, I found that nearly impossible to do. However, I feel 79 covers everything we should want from the speed stat, and nothing more. The key thing I was looking for was the ability to outspeed Tornadus-T after a single speed boost. Now, anything 65 or higher can do this, but 79 is nice because it is high enough to achieve this feat without needing a positive speed nature. However, there is a lot more too this stat than that. I feel that, while the reward of beating such fast Pokemon with a boost is nice, that alone is not enough to promote Weak Armor use over the other two abilities. To do that, there also needs to be the downside of not using it. In this situation, that downside would be underspeeding base 80 and above Pokemon like Dragonite and Gyarados. Yet, at the same time, since many of these Pokemon prefer neutral speed nature, it is close enough to have a chance to outspeed should you opt for the faster nature, meaning the speed is no where near useless for sets that opt for No Guard or Illusion. The other key advantage of 79 is that it is above Heatran's 77. By typing and stats, Heatran would appear to be well suited to counter CAP4. However, since we do not want to have real counters, I feel outspeeding Heatran is necessary, so it cannot easily come in and force us out.

    HP: When it came to this Pokemon's bulk, I really wanted to make sure that the gap between physical and special bulkiness was huge. I feel that this is the best way to let it function, while still providing it with what it needs to be a risky Pokemon. Now 102 HP is a decently high number, but is certainly not over the top. I feel that, by having an HP stat like this, it lets us provide the physical bulk and special frailty that we need without forcing investment for the defence to be worthwhile. At the same time, the HP is not ridiculous enough that the low SpD is made to mean less.

    Def: Now, as I'm sure you can see, this spread has a lot of physical bulk. That was one of the goals that I had from the very beginning, to make sure CAP4 could have excellent physical bulk to let it take advantage of everything else we have given it. As such, the Def stat of 112 was chosen as it maximized the physical tankieness of this spread, given the HP stat. The hope I have is that, in a Cloyster like fashion this Pokemon will be able to easily take physical hits, and use the opportunities they are given from them to take advantage of Weak Armor, or a boosting move, or simply a free turn to attack.

    SpD: However, once again, like Cloyster, one has to be careful when switching CAP4 into attacks, as, while it can take physical moves with impunity, special hits are made to be its bane. 102/59 Special bulk is by no means awful the way Cloyster is, but in OU, with weaknesses to a few common special moves, and few resistances to them, it will not be surviving many shots. To be specific, the point of this SpD stat was to make the Special Tankieness as low as it could go while still being legal. Now, it ended up a few points higher than that to round out the BST, but it is still low enough to be the obvious achilles heel of this CAP.

    Atk: Finally we get to the offensive stats. As they are here, these were the last parts of my spread to be decided on. I have always believed that if we want this Pokemon to be have mixed offenses, then we need to give it higher attack than special attack. The fact is, people gravitate towards safe choices. That is what this concept is all about, making a Pokemon who's reward is good enough that people will forgo the safe choice. However, I think we need to take that into account within this Pokemon as well. The fact is, Special Bug/Psychic is a relatively safe choice. Sure there are a few risky moves, but they are all accurate and decently powerful enough with small chances of an extra effect. Physical does not have that guarantee. So, if we want people to go both ways on the offensive spectrum, we need to provide reward for going physical, and I see no better way to do that that with a higher Atttack stat. Now, with the low, but not pathetic speed stat of 79, there is plenty of room within the stat limits for us to give CAP4 high offenses, and so I started with an attack stat of 129. 129 is well known for being the Attack stat of OU powerhouse Terrakion. While certainly not the highest in OU, it is more than enough to power through most of the metagame, as Terrakion has shown. I definitely this that this stat will give us all the power we need to be a force in OU without going overboard. Now, it is true that Terrakion has arguably better STABs to work with, but what we have is...

    SpA: ...a good special attack stat. 119, while not a true powerhouse, is more than enough to be a potent threat in the OU metagame, as many many Pokemon have shown us. The key to it though is, of course, the fact that it sits right next to such a potent attack stat. Most Pokemon that will cause problems for a physical set are frail enough on the special side for a special set to break them, and vice versa. The main thing I wanted to get across with this stat was that it is enough to let CAP4 stand alone as a good special attacker, but low enough to provide some reward for people who do decide to go physical.


    Calcs: I'll edit some of these in if I get the chance.
  12. Shrooomtastic

    Shrooomtastic

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    10
    Final Submission
    Wow people are really submitting some great spreads but I figures that I might as well post my thoughts/spread too ^^

    100 HP/ 130 Atk/ 112 Def/ 115 SpA/ 55 SpD/ 88 Spe
    BST:600

    PT: 196.2698
    ST: 100.8374
    PS: 199.7637
    SS: 179.1806

    First of yeah I decided to go with a BST of 600 which some people feel is a bit too much for a bug type vut I think that if we want to get the results that we were discussing (not have any "raw" counter) the stats has to be a bit higher than they have been on other bug types. (not counting genesect since it's a legendary pokemon)

    Overall spread
    - Decent HP to fill BmBs requirements
    - High attack and Special Attack to get the "mixed" sweeper that we were aiming for.
    - High Defence to have the possiblity to abuse Weak Armor to it's fullest potential
    - Low Special Defence to give us a big flaw that we decided to have in the StatsLimits thread
    - Decent Speed didn't want to go too high but not too low either, tried to find a number that worked with all our abilities

    HP
    Show Hide
    this number was believe it or not one of the hardest ones to find a fitting one. I was toying around with base 80 and stats around that mark but I felt like it was a bit too low. BMB also stated that he wanted a "high" HP stat for some moves that he had in mind (moves like Final Gambit and Pain splitcomes to mind) so I tried some other numbers but I got the feeling that if we went too high we would get some problems with our special defence.

    After all my calculations and such I decided to go with base 100 HP which isn't a lot but it's not a low number either.

    Another reason why I figured that 100 hp would fit (actually this don't aply for showdown sadly...) is that whenever a pokemon enters the battle, assuming that entry hazards are up (in this case let's say Stealth rocks), the pokemon will take damage. The pokemons health will then decrease to in our case 75% because CAP4 has a weakness to stealth rocks. This "drop" of HP will take different amount of time since they have a different Hp stat, if Blissey switches in stealth rock damage will take a linger time to occur but if gengar switches in it will go much faster.
    This has always been one way of seing through Zoroarks Illusion ability (at least if you pay attention when battling). Conisdering this I decided to make CAP4:s HP number as similar as possible to the some of the other Stealth rock weak pokemon in the OU tier (Salamence (95), Dragonite (91), Abomasnow (90) and Gyarados (95)). I didn't include Tornadus-T or thundurus -T because they have a much lower HP stat and BMB wanted a reaonable high one. I also buffed it a bit because I don't consider base 95 HP to be very "high"


    Speed

    Show Hide
    I feel like the speed stat is the next stat to be explained since the offensive stats will be adjusted around it. Also the speed stat is the most important stat on CAP4 NO DOUBT and you just need to get it absolutely right othervise your spread will not work!

    So what is the reason for my speed stat of 88? why 88?
    well I have multiple reasons but basicly I wanted a speed stat that would allow all the abilities to be played but it wouldn't be able to sweep without a +1 in speed (Weak armor). I Started off testing speed stats like 70-80 but I felt like it would be a tad to slow. boosting it up to 85 I became a bit more comfortable because CAP4 now could outspeed threats like Dragonite, Gyarados and Heatran. It also put me in a nice speed tier with a choice scarf etting me outspeed everything not boosted in the tier with 252 evs and a neutral nature. But there were still problems with the number. I realized that outspeeding the rotom forms would be good for CAP4 when especially running a set with Illusion so I buffed the speed stat to 87 which felt alot better. But then long story short I buffed it to 88 to outspeed base 101 neutral nature as long as you run 252 evs and a +speed nature (Landorus and Thundurus-T).

    People might consider that base 88 is a too high Speed stat but think about it like this: 88 is pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to sweep with, there are just so many pokemon that still outspeed you and could just come in and revengekill you. In fact 50% of the tier outspeeds you and 50% out of them usually carries a super effective move against you (+ many of them carry strong special moves that will most likely take you out either way).

    Another thing to note is that with a base speed of 88 you don't need to run a speed boosting nature to outspeed the entire tier at +1 (+1 neutral nature with 252 evs in speed = 412 and Jolteon (fastest in tier) caps at 394, this is something that anything below base 83 speed won't be able to do)


    Atk/SpA

    Show Hide
    Everyone so far have agreed that we need high offensive stats and I'm no exception. Since one of the points that we figured out during the "threat discussion" time was that CAP should have no absolute counters only soft counters. One of the reasons to accomplish this is to give CAP4 mixed offensive stats and one is through adjusting the movepool to fit it.
    In this part the only thing that we can control is the stats so going for a mixed spread was pretty obvious and self exlanatory.

    Atk
    I really wanted a higher attack stat than the Sp. attack stat mostly because of our movepool options since we have no guard on this thing (focus blast etc.).
    The number that I came up with was 125 but I found it a bil too low so I buffed it to 130 which is the same as scizor if you wanna compare to another bug type. Also 130 base attack allows us to hit pokemon like blissey and specially defensive Jirachi extremely hard while a special set would struggle to do so.

    SpA
    So after putting the Atk stat at 130 I was thinking that going with a SpA as high would be kinda stupid since the reason that the Atk stat was put so high was to have a greater Atk stat then the SpA stat. I tested stats all the way from base 95-130 and I found the most appealing one to be base 115 since it's not too high but still not lackluster (115 is the same as Lucario and Landorus and in fact it's better than the Sp.atk of Starmie!).


    Def

    Show Hide
    So finally a stat that everyone seems to agree on. Since we have Weak Armor as one of our abilities this stat is one of the more important ones and eveyone is agreeing that it should be a HIGH number and now it was up to me to find out what this "high" number should be. In my original spread I had a Def stat of 110 and I felt comfortable with it but just to reach that 600 BST (598 is kinda akward) I decided to buff it to 112. Also having a 100/112 bulk allows CAP4 to take alot of neutral physical hits as well as some super effective ones (stone edge from jolly Terrakion only has a 18,75% chance to ohko 0/0 CAP4). Also see calcs later.

    SpD

    Show Hide
    Ok so the Achilles heel for CAP4 (sure the term is starting to get a bit to overused...) and I really wanted it to be lower but I couldnt go too low and I felt like base 55 suited it really well, basicly it has the same special bulk as Darmanitan (Darmanitan has 5 more base HP though) and we all know that Darmanitan can't take alot of special hits...


    Calcs

    Show Hide
    Defensive
    (0/0/0 naive CAP4)

    - Terrakion Jolly 252 Atk Stone Edge 87.1%-102.93% (18.75% to ohko | 100% to ohko with Stealth rocks)
    - Tyranitar jolly 252 Atk Stone Edge 89.74%-105.57% (37.5% to ohko | 100% to ohko with Stealth rocks)
    - Tyranitar Jolly 252 Atk Crunch 71.26%-84.46% ( 0% to ohko | 66.67% to ohko with Stealth rocks)
    - Infernape Jolly 252 Atk Flare Blitz 89.74%-106.45% (37.5% to ohko | 100% to ohko with stealth rocks)
    - Genesect Jolly 4 Atk U-turn 47.51%-56.3% (0% to ohko | 0% to ohko with Stealth rocks | 75.81% to 2hko | 100% to 2hko with Stealth rocks)
    - Tornadus-T Naive 4 Atk U-turn 35.19%-41.64% (0% to ohko | 0% to ohko with Stealth rocks | = free but risky +speed from WA ^^)

    - Tyranitar Sassy 64 SpA Fire Blast 93.26%-110.26% (62.5% to ohko | 100% to ohko with Stealth rocks)
    - Jellicent Bold 0 SpA Shadow Ball 79.18%-94.13% (0% to ohko | 100% to ohko with Stealth rocks)
    - Genesect Naive 252 SpA Flamethrower 103.23%-121.99% (100%to ohko)
    - Thundurus-T Timid 252 Volt Switch 65.4%-77.42% (0% to ohko | 15.38% to ohko with Stealth rocks)

    All these were calculated with the attacker NOT having a life orb

    Offensive
    Naive 252 Atk CAP4

    - Megahorn with Life Orb vs 252/0 Sassy Tyranitar 117.33%-137.38% (100% to ohko)
    - Megahorn vs 252/0 SAssy Tyranitar 89.85%-106.19% (37.5% to ohko | 100% to ohko with stealth rocks)
    - Megahorn with Life Orb vs 252/252 Bold Reuniclus 104.72%-123.11% (100% ohko)
    - Megahorn with Life Orb vs 128/0 Modest Rotom-W 88.28%-103.66% (31.25% to ohko | 100% to ohko with Stealth rocks)
    - Megahorn with Life orb vs 4/0 Timid Politoed 100.62%-118.32% (100% to ohko)
    - Megahorn with Life orb vs 252/0 calm Politoed 84.38%-99.22% (0% to ohko | 74.36% to ohko with Stealth rocks)
    - Megahorn vs 252/252 Bold Blissey 50%-58.82% (0% to ohko | 0% to ohko with Stealth rocks | 100% to 2hko)

    - Zen Headbutt with Life orb vs 120/0 Adamant Conkeldurr 93.7%-110.24% (62.5% to ohko | 92.31% to ohko with Stealth rocks)
    - Zen Headbutt with Life orb vs 54/0 Adamant Dragonite (assuming no multiscale) 52.98%-62.5% ( 0% to ohko | 0% to ohko with Stealth rocks | 100% to 2hko (without leftovers) )
    - Zen headbutt with Life orb vs 0/0 Naive Tornadus-T 76.59%-90.3% (0% to ohko | 100% to ohko after Stealth rocks)

    Naive 252 SpA

    - Bub Buzz with Life orb vs 252/120 Sassy Tyranitar 47.52%-55.69% (0% to ohko | 0% to ohko with Stealth rocks | 71.73% to 2hko | 100% to 2hko with Stealth rocks)
    - Bug Buzz with Life orb vs 252/252 Calm Politoed 33.07%-39.06% (3hko at max but probably 4hko though leftovers)

    - Psychic with Life orb vs 120/136 Adamant Conkeldurr 109.45%-128.35% (100% ohko)
    - Psychic with Life orb vs 0/0 naive Tornadus-T 71.57%-84.62% (0%to ohko | 74.36% to ohko with Stealth rocks)
    - Psychic with Life orb vs 128/0 Modest Rotom-W 60.81%-71.79% (0% to ohko | 0% to ohko with Stealth rocks | 100% to 2hko)
    - Psychic with Life orb vs 252/0 Impish Gliscor 62.99%-74.01% (0% to ohko | 0% to ohko with Stealth rocks | 100% to 2hko)
    - Psychic with Life orb vs 0/0 Jolly Terrakion (in sand) 79.63%-93.54% (0%to ohko | 0% to ohko with Stealth rocks | 100% to 2hko)

    - Psyshock with Life orb vs 0/0 Jolly Terrakion (in sand) 105.56%-125% (100% to ohko)
    - Psyshock with Life orb vs 252/184 Impish Gliscor 28.81%-33.9% (won't die...)

    - Hidden power Fire with Life orb vs 252/168 Relaxed Ferrothorn 79.55%-94.32% (0% ohko | 2.56% to ohko with Stealth rocks)
    - Hidden power Fire with life orb vs 252/0 Impish Skarmory 73.05%-86.23% (0% to ohko | 0% to ohko with Stealth rocks | 100% to 2hko)
  13. SubwayJ

    SubwayJ

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    2,748
    May as well change this to be my Final Submission

    Posting again so people see my reasoning and junk

    110HP/120ATK/100DEF/110SPA/55SPD/80SPE

    TOTAL BST: 575

    Physical Tankiness
    187.6406 (Excellent)
    Special Tankiness
    107.8732 (Above Average)
    Physical Sweepiness
    164.4736 (Very Good)
    Special Sweepiness
    155.4458 (Very Good)
    Base Stat Rating (BSR)
    341.0772 (Very Good)

    Other Stuff
    Offensive/Defensive Bias: -4.2485 (Slightly Biased towards Defense)
    Physical/Special Bias: 13.0070 (Biased towards Physical)
    ---------------------------------

    Okay. My spread isn't based on "outspeeding that one thing" or "getting that key KO" my spread is mostly based on what I think our mon should be like.

    DEFENSEIVENESS
    I gave our pokemon a high Defence and HP because to make Weak Armor a viable ability on this thing we need to be able to survive a physical hit. I gave my spread a low Special Defense because that's what we decided this mons "weak spot" should be, this adds a certain element of risk, because with such a low SP DEF CAP4 will go down to even a neutral special hit.

    OFFENSIVENESS
    My spread is very mixed offensively, with only 10 points separating the ATK and SPATK. I chose to give the edge to the ATK because this CAP's coverage moves are going to be mostly special I think. (We dont want all CAP 4's running around using No Guard Blizzards, Fire Blasts and Thunders, do we?) Also in terms of speed, why u other spreads so ugly??? I chose 80 speed because its not amazingly high, but its also not amazingly low. I believe that 80 speed is a good place because it means a weak armor boost may be needed to achieve a certain role, but it can pull off other things staying at just a non boosted speed.
    ---------------------------------


    So thats my spread, I hope you like it, if not, ohh well. Again, I don't think I need to post any "+1 Megahorn vs Max Def Ttar" or anything like that, if only because if you like my spread, you shouldn't have to be bombarded with tidbits of data trying to convince you that its better (even though it likely won't xD)

    EDIT: Also, BST spreads of 600 are overrated, 575 is where its at (but seriously, 600 is REALLY high -.-)

    Cheers to CAP4!
  14. srk1214

    srk1214 That ain't Hoopa!
    is a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,072
    Lowered my base HP by 10 points to get down to 570 BST, matching our record high BST, but more importantly perhaps getting away from the 580 legendary trios.

    Initial post reflects that.
  15. PokNinjaGuy

    PokNinjaGuy

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    18
    Raised base HP by ten, Base ATK by 3, lowered base DEF by 3. This was almost purely for aesthetic purposes, and my original post was edited.
    Just wanted to make sure the changes were noticed
  16. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    882
    Raised base Def from 110 to 115, to move the BST from 580 to 585. It doesn't make a load of difference to calcs, but is notable in that it lets 0/0 CAP 4 avoid the 2HKO from popular priority attacks, when using Illusion / No Guard.
  17. ntiller

    ntiller

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    113
    I wanted to gear psybug towards the role of an extremely fast support pokemon, with moderate offensive prowess. It has decent defenses, but a very low hp stat. This allows it to be KO'd fairly easily if played improperly. In making these stats, I would expect that this pokemon gets the movepool it needs to make good use of them, including moves such as taunt, substitute, disable, quiver dance, and hypnosis (these are just some possible suggestions). I chose to make this pokemon both extremely fast and relatively frail because frailty makes switch ins more difficult, increasing the risk of playing this pokemon. However, a high speed stat allows for a high return on investment, especially when you switch this pokemon into a defensive or support pokemon and taunt them, then proceed to set up.
    65 Hp/ 95 Atk/ 85 Def/ 100 Spa/ 90 Spd/ 165 Spe
  18. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Sep 19, 2008
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    2,287
    OK so I have added the Current Spread Sheet to the OP, which should help if you're comparing them or trying to differentiate between them, or whatever it might be. If there is a difference between your last stat spread and the one I have in the OP, do tell me so I can change it.

    Just so you all know, anyway.

    @ntiller: Your spread is illegal. Your PT is far too low. Please change your spread to meet the limits in the OP or it will not be considered further.
  19. meteor64

    meteor64

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    321
    I am completely happy with my spread as from what I can tell it does exactly what we want it to do- its also reassuring to see so many similar spreads. However if there are any specific nitpicks I'd be happy to hear them.
  20. GRs Cousin

    GRs Cousin

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    298
    Alright, so via the adjustments asked from bmb, I updated my statspread. Many of the same points I made from my original spread apply to this one as well.

    105 HP / 115 Atk / 110 Def / 110 SpA / 53 SpD / 82 Spe
    PT: 199.2492 (Excellent)
    ST: 100.9723 (Above Average)
    PS: 165.4800 (Very Good)
    SS: 162.5149 (Very Good)
    BSR: 352.3244 (Excellent)
    BST: 575

    - High HP – Just enough to make it bulky yet practical. With Base 105 HP, CAP4 requires only 216 HP EVs to reach 405 health, enough to make 101 Substitutes and survive 5 Stealth Rocks.
    - Discrepancy – Done with flying colors, having one of the highest possible PTs for one of the lowest possible STs.
    - Specialisation – Bulky, mixed, and fast enough. It's capable of doing any of the three without being a failure, it just can't do two at once as well.
    - Speed – Big one right here. Base 82 allows you to outspeed every unboosted Pokemon in the game save Deoxys and Ninjask if you activate Weak Armor. Otherwise, it's fast enough to work well with the other abilities without being too slow (Bisharp's 70, Honchkrow's 71, Dragonite's 80, all things that hold them back) nor too fast (Base 100 outpaces plenty, to ridiculous amounts with Weak Armor that no longer really benefit it).
    - Aesthetics – BST 600 is Pseudo-Legendary, which I honestly don't see this thing being (lack of immunity solidifies that). BST 580 is Trio Legendary, which will clearly not do. The best that leaves is BST 575 in regards to flavor, as Archeops, Game Freak's earlier official attempt at high-risk high-reward, has a very close BST of 567.
  21. Nyktos

    Nyktos Custom Loser Title
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    565
    WIP spread: 130 / 107 / 83 / 100 / 45 / 102 (BST 567)
    PT: 177.1928
    ST: 102.6204
    PS: 188.3332
    SS: 178.4008
    BSR: 361.4523

    Stuff:
    - 102 Speed because I like the idea of this not speed tying with anything and I wanted something in the 100 range.
    - 130 HP allows making 101 HP subs by investing 12 EVs, which allows you to max one of your attacks and still run enough Speed (240) to outspeed base 100s. Still not completely certain this is actually desirable, though...
    - 107 Attack, maxed with a Life Orb and a Jolly nature, allows you to OHKO 4 / 0 Terrakion with Zen Headbutt, without rocks.
    - 100 SpAtk doesn't do anything in particular; it was chosen arbitrarily but so far I haven't found a compelling reason to increase or decrease it
    - 83 Def prevents CB Scizor from OHKOing with Pursuit and rocks if CAP4 stays in.
    - I do intend to tweak to a less ugly BST.
  22. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    CAP Head Mod

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,732
    Just popping in for a moment. Traditionally, I don't submit stat spreads because I think you guys already do an awesome job of creating them, so I like to limit myself to comments at this stage. I want to remind everyone of the two week toil that we went over called Ability Discussions. We chose Weak Armor, Illusion, and No Guard for specific reasons, and their viability is incredibly reliant on CAP4's stats. When reading through, I think the strongest entries will address each of the three abilities and how they were taken into consideration when molding the stats. I think there are a variety of ways of dealing with them, but being able to read the thought process is paramount.

    Good luck!
  23. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    784
    Final Submission:

    Okay, let's have a try. I hope my spread doesn't completely suck, I'm still relatively new to CAP but I guess trying to partecipate actively is the best way to get started faster (as long as one doesn't post stupid things...hope it's not the case).

    Proposed stat spread: 100 HP / 110 Atk / 103 Def / 115 SpA / 72 SpD / 100 Spe (600 BST)

    PT: 180.979 (Excellent)
    ST: 128.774 (Good)
    PS: 186.118 (Excellent)
    SS: 199.035 (Excellent)
    BSR: 393.120 (Excellent)

    Speed (open)
    Actually, I really wanted this CAP to have an usable Speed stat; this would give it access to many possible sets, mixed LO, Scarf, as well as many boosting sets. However, raising much Speed heavily influence PS and SS, thus I couldn't go as high as I wanted. 100 Speed is a good tier anyway, many successful sweepers already are around that number (this could somewhat be seen as an element of risk, since you don't have a distinctive Speed stat that allows you to be sure to outspeed certain threats), and still allows CAP4 to have very nice mixed offenses. I feel, also, that putting CAP4 in such a good Speed tier represent a good incentive to run Weak Armour, being able to deal with Scarf Genesect and speed tie at worst with many common Scarfers.

    Atk/SpAtk (open)
    110 and 115 are indeed nice attacking stats, not the best out there but still very usable. I don't have the time to play around with the damage calculator to set those stats in a way they'll grant specific OHKOs/2HKOs, sorry about that, however I feel that I reached a good compromise about mixed attacking prowess and Speed. THink about Lucario to have a rough idea about what those kind of mixed offenses means - probably quite underwhelming if unboosted, but can become especially threatening with a LO or after a boost. THis, coupled with the Speed stat, ensure that our CAP can run a multitude of different sets, thus making him difficult to effectively counter and hard to switch in.

    HP/Def (open)
    100 HP and 103 Def actually give CAP4 a very good physical bulk, comparable to the pixies, which is especially good since taking a hit and activating Weak Armour doesn't completely cripple yourself. To have an idea of how bulky this can be, consider that it can survive Choice Scarf Salamence's Outrage (Jolly natured) after being switched into Rocks. Of course you won't do so very often, but that can give you a rough idea of what it can take as physical damage.

    SpD (open)
    It was clear from the beginning that I needed to dump this a bit; however thanks to awesome base 100 HP stat, CAP4 is still able to take some weaker hit, albeit everything unresisted and decently powered will easily faint it. I feel that giving him 72 SpD is low enough to make it risky to use while not completely crippling its special bulk to Forretress levels, since that would be easily exploited by walls of every kind to quickly wear down CAP4 and render it useless.


    Quoting BMB's guidelines for the stat spread:
    High HP: achieved, 100 base HP is quite a bit, it even allows for 101 HP Substututes
    Discrepancy: While my spread's ST is not complete trash, it's still quite weak compared to PT, so I guess this is achieved too
    Specialization: I tried to balance out the spread so many sets are viable, both physicals and specials; if I didn't do some gross mistake, this is achieved too
    Speed: See above.
    Aesthetic: 600 BST is achieved, and that's a quite nice number. Two stats are a bit odd, but I feel that some diversity is not ugly at all, and can be pleasant at times, so no biggie here. Overall, even this point is sorta achieved.

    Okay, probably not the best suggestion but I hope it was at least worth considering.
  24. WebsterVanCooney

    WebsterVanCooney

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    34
    Final Submission

    HP: 88
    Atk:122
    Def:100
    SpA:122
    SpD:65
    Spe:88
    BST:585

    PT:161.7727 (Very Good)
    ST:107.6708 (Above Average)
    PS:189.6128 (Excellent)
    SS:190.2355 (Excellent)

    HP: Not too high, not too low. It doesn't hurt the defense, but it still is low enough that it accentuates that super-low SpD that we were aiming for.

    Atk and SpA: We aimed to make this guy a strong attacker, and this does exactly that. Higher in both stats than Genesect. Enough said there.

    Def: Solid. Not spectacular, but the same as good old Scizor.

    Speed: Again, not incredible, but faster than Toxicroak. Sounds good to me.

    -Webster
  25. Admiral_Stalfos19

    Admiral_Stalfos19

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    On second thought, I wanna change my spread and see if I can bring it down to 575 or even 570. But first, I'd like some critique on my current one, so then I have a rough idea on what else to correct. Anyone willing to comment on it?
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