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CAP 16 CAP 5 - Part 10 - Movepool Submissions

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by Birkal, Apr 12, 2013.

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  1. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Here it is, the big kahuna! Time for us to create a movepool and vote on our favorite. In this thread, everyone and anyone has the chance to create CAP5's movepool. However, there are limitations to what you can do; most of that information can be found on site. Furthermore, it should also be noted that there are lists of allowed and disallowed moves: attacking moves (vote) and non-attacking moves (vote). In addition to this, there are limits of 65 total moves and 33 "Very Good Moves" (again, defined in the movepool submission article), as per this discussion. Submitted movepools must follow these guidelines to have a chance to be slated.
  2. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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    I would like to have better flavour in movepools.

    The movepool stage is quite possibly the weirdest stage in the CAP process. In these movepool submissions is a combination of flavour and competitive considerations. Moreover, flavour considerations impact competitive considerations, and vice versa. I believe that taking flavour more seriously will lead to a more balanced CAP Pokemon, or at least a more balanced-looking CAP Pokemon.

    I would like to strive for an ideal where every single move in a movepool submission is explained under some kind of strong flavour or competitive reasoning. Now, this does not necessarily mean that one goes over every move and lists reasons for them all, because that would probably take too long and the reasoning probably would end up being really weak regardless. The natural conclusion is that the bulk of a submission's explanations should explain large chunks of moves at once. The important thing is that the reasoning should not be halfhearted. You're not convincing anybody to slate your entry if the way you explain a move is along the lines of: "It watches Kingdra use it in the ocean." It sounds ridiculous, but it's so easy to go into these explanations with that kind of effort. Trying to out-troll my movepool submission for Tomohawk isn't going to impress anybody :P

    I will still try to slate based on input and discussion that goes on, but I plan to do some input and discussion of my own, since I am still a participant in the project, after all (I just don't get to submit). I'm not saying that people didn't properly explain their movepools in the past, but I think that if more people kept this in mind, we'd have better competition and, thus, better movepools that are more satisfying to people overall.

    To help people out, I came up with a list of moves that I would say don't really need much explanation. I took the following moves as a base:

    Power Whip / Wood Hammer
    Thunder Fang
    Ice Fang
    U-turn
    Haze
    Aromatherapy / Heal Bell
    Baton Pass

    The following are shared by all Dark-types, or all Pokemon with Harvest, or all Pokemon with all of the above moves (disallowed moves not included):

    Show Hide
    !VGMs
    ?Moves that "come with" moves that will not necessarily be in movepool submissions

    Attract
    Bite
    !Bullet Seed
    Captivate
    !Crunch
    ?Cut
    !Dark Pulse
    !Double-Edge
    Double Team
    Endure
    !Energy Ball
    !Facade
    Flash
    Frustration
    !Giga Drain
    !Grass Knot
    !Hidden Power
    !?Knock Off
    !Leaf Storm
    Mimic
    !Payback
    !Protect
    !Rest
    !Return
    !Roar
    Round
    ?Scary Face
    Secret Power
    !Seed Bomb
    !Sleep Talk
    Snatch
    Snore
    SolarBeam
    Strength
    !Substitute
    Sunny Day
    Swagger
    Swift
    !Synthesis
    !Taunt
    Thief
    Torment
    !Toxic
    Worry Seed


    I'm not saying that a movepool submission has to have all of these moves. It's just a list you can reference / appeal to implicitly, in addition to the on-site type-move and move-move guidelines.

    Now, movepool minions, GO!

    <+DetroitLolcat> "Here it is, the big kahuna!"- Birkal's post
    <+DetroitLolcat> should be "Here it is, the big Kakuna!
  3. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
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    This is the movepool I've been working on. And yes I really want Shadow Ball.

    wip (open)

    65 Moves Total
    32 VGMs (VGMs are marked with ** unless duplicated)

    Prevo Only:
    Rollout
    Defense Curl
    Rapid Spin**
    Charm

    Level Up:
    0 - Poison Tail (get it, poison apple reference, I feel witty)
    0 - Wrap
    0 - Bite
    0 - Sweet Scent
    0 - Pursuit
    7 - Sweet Scent
    11 - Pursuit**
    15 - Magical Leaf
    19 - Taunt**
    23 - Glare**
    27 - Crunch**
    32 - Night Shade**
    36 - Foul Play**
    40 - Flatter
    45 - Power Whip**
    49 - Nasty Plot**
    57 - Memento**
    63 - Punishment

    Egg Moves - Grass / Dragon Egg Groups:
    Aromatherapy**
    Thunder Fang**
    Sucker Punch**
    Follow Me
    Captivate
    Wring Out
    Moonlight**

    Tutor:
    Seed Bomb**
    Sleep Talk**
    Worry Seed
    Foul Play
    Iron Tail**
    Bind
    Snore
    Sucker Punch**
    Gastro Acid
    Spite
    Dark Pulse**
    Giga Drain**

    TMs/HMs:
    TM05 Roar**
    TM06 Toxic**
    TM10 Hidden Power**
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect**
    TM21 Frustration**
    TM22 Solarbeam
    TM27 Return
    TM30 MOTHAFUCKING SHADOW BAWSLL**
    TM32 Double Team
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest**
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM53 Energy Ball**
    TM56 Fling
    TM66 Payback**
    TM82 Dragon Tail**
    TM85 Dream Eater
    TM86 Grass Knot**
    TM87 Swagger
    TM89 U-turn**
    TM90 Substitute**
    TM95 Snarl


    Notable Exclusions: Ice Fang, Baton Pass, Spikes

    Ice Fang is somewhat redundant with Glare. We wanted Ice Fang to prevent Landorus and Salamence and friends from using Malaconda as set up bait. Well, Glare does that better and makes a lot more sense flavorwise because SNAKE EYES. Glare also isn't nearly as punishing on Breloomandala.

    I prefer U-turn to Baton Pass because 1. Malaconda has a massive HP stat and could pass huge Subs and 2. Malaconda can use Harvest + Pinch Berry to pass boosts, which seems like a complete distraction and makes it fit on a Baton Pass Chain of all things. Also, if you are scared U-turn will pop Heatran's balloon, use shed shell ;D

    Spikes was more of a tossup. Basically, Rapid Spin means we already have a lot of utility on non-sun teams. With Spikes that is further increased. However, I am still open to Spikes as an option.

    Thoughts?

    edit: oh the prevo moves probably make no sense unless you go on #cap lol. We came up with a prevo that is super adorable and hides inside an apple and is completely amazing and I love it :3
  4. Final Submission

    65/32. VGMs are bold.

    Level (open)

    1 - Wrap
    6 - Tail Whip
    11 - Razor Leaf
    16 - Bite
    21 - Bestow
    26 - Knock Off
    31 - AncientPower
    36 - Future Sight
    41 - Sweet Scent
    46 - Sucker Punch
    51 - Power Whip
    56 - Crunch
    61 - Present
    66 - Nasty Plot

    Okay, this is where most of the flavour comes in. First, gaining a level-up move every five levels allows me to hit every number that ends with 6 and finish with 66. As for the moves themselves, I view them as pairs of moves related to one another, with three pairs at regular intervals that deal with giving/luring and deception. Here's what I mean:

    -Early Move Pair: Wrap and Tail Whip are both appropriate moves for a low-level pokemon. Note that Tail Whip is all about "wagging" the tail to make the opponent less wary; seems appropriate here.
    -STAB Pair 1: Razor Leaf and Bite would be good moves to work with early on if this existed in a cartridge game.
    -Giving/Trickery Pair 1: Bestow gives an item (like, say, an apple) and Knock Off removes it. If only Trick were legal.
    -Time Pair: Ancientpower because the snake from Eden would be pretty damn ancient; Future Sight because it's forseeing divine punishment. I went with Future Sight instead of Punishment because it isn't the snake in the story that does the actual punishing.
    -G/T Pair 2: Sweet Scent lures something in and Sucker Punch hits it by surprise. Would be a good combo IRL.
    -STAB Pair 2: Upgrades.
    -G/T Pair 3: Present kind of covers both in one move though.

    As for the competitive side of things, I don't think there's anything too controversial here. Power Whip and Crunch are your basic STAB moves, while Sucker Punch, maybe paired with Pursuit, can force fun mind games and be a valuable weapon against the Lati@s we want to counter.


    TM/HM (open)
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM09 - Venoshock
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM11 - Sunny Day
    TM12 - Taunt
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM21 - Frustration

    TM22 - SolarBeam
    TM27 - Return
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM42 - Facade
    TM44 - Rest

    TM45 - Attract
    TM46 - Thief
    TM48 - Round
    TM53 - Energy Ball
    TM56 - Fling
    TM66 - Payback
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM82 - Dragon Tail
    TM86 - Grass Knot

    TM87 - Swagger
    TM89 - U-turn
    TM90 - Substitute

    TM95 - Snarl

    Yeah, not much going on here. Between flavour, disallowed moves and movepool limits, there wasn't really room for a long list. I don't think this is a pokemon that demands one though. Note that Return is not marked as a VGM because it and Frustration count as one.

    Aside from the required Substitute and Toxic, the most notable moves here are Dragon Tail and U-turn. U-turn is important to maintain momentum, which I think will be necessary to support a sun team. Aside from the obvious point that sun tends to be offensive, and momentum is important to offence, I've also noted in previous threads that with Malaconda losing to Scizor and Ninetales losing to Politoed, Scizor's ability to grab momentum while doing decent damage (~30% to Ninetales assuming standard sets) leaves rain with a clear advantage over sun unless Malaconda can snatch momentum too.

    As for Dragon Tail, it's one of a few defensive tools that can help Malaconda to free teamslots on a sun team. Dragon Tail 'conda means no need for Donphan as a phazer, and freeing teamslots was one of our main goals in building a sunmon.

    Flavour-wise, I don't think there's anything too weird except maybe Fling, Snarl and Flash. Snarl is learned by approximately every Dark-type. Fling is, well, one way of giving an item to someone else. Flash is learned by a lot of Grass-types, and blinding light fits the forbidden fruit theme well.


    Tutor (open)
    Bind
    Covet
    Dark Pulse
    Foul Play

    Gastro Acid
    Giga Drain
    Iron Tail
    Knock Off
    Pain Split
    Seed Bomb
    Sleep Talk
    Snore
    Spite
    Synthesis
    Worry Seed

    Again, nothing too exciting here. Please note that Knock Off and Seed Bomb are not marked as VGMs because the former is repeated from the level-up list, and the latter is outclassed by Leaf Blade. There aren't really any notable competitive moves here except Synthesis, which makes a non-LumRest set a viable defensive option, so let's talk about flavour. I remember capefeather wondering about flavour justifications for Pain Split, and I have a couple of answers. My first thought was that both humans and snakes are punished by God in Eden, meaning they share the pain of their punishment. After some more thought, I realized that Pain Split's potential to both heal and hurt the user is not unlike a forbidden fruit bringing enlightenment but also sin. Maybe these are a bit of a stretch, but I think they work.


    Egg (Field and Grass) (open)
    Aromatherapy
    Flatter
    Ice Fang
    Leaf Blade

    Pursuit
    Rapid Spin
    Spikes
    Thunder Fang
    Wood Hammer

    Wring Out

    Here's where we get a bunch of competitive goodies. I decided not to have any illegal combinations, because 4MS will keep Malaconda from taking full advantage of these anyway. We've already done plenty to keep it from being broken through the typing and movepool restrictions, and if you run Ice Fang to hit dragons, it's costing you some sort of recovery, STAB, support or something.

    This movepool is designed to make Malaconda a somewhat versatile defensive pokemon, while remembering that it only gets four moves. Aromatherapy, Rapid Spin and Spikes all allow it to fill important defensive roles and free teamslots for other pokemon, but I doubt that many players will run all three at once, since it would prevent the use of both an attack and a recovery move. Even though all combinations are available, players will still have tough choices to make. Aromatherapy is valuable to sun offence, which can't afford to have key members crippled by status. Rapid Spin covers one of sun's biggest weaknesses and opens opportunities for things like Ninetales and Volcarona to switch in. Spikes is just a good defensive move, and allows Malaconda to take the hazard setting role, though this is should be balanced by the fact that Malaconda with no rocks up is fodder for certain Flying-types and opposing sun teams. Without Spikes, Malaconda can't properly take the role of Forretress or Donphan, making it more difficult to accomplish the teamslot-freeing goal, and it still can't even be the only hazard setter unless the team gives Stealth Rock up.

    On the same note, I honestly think that Ice Fang has been overhyped through this process, given the competition it faces for a moveslot. Given its many weaknesses and less-than-spectacular STABs, Malaconda always risks being setup bait, and I've included Ice Fang because I see the value in preventing dragons from setting up and tearing a sun team apart, but I don't actually expect Ice Fang to be very important in the playtest. Basically, I see small reward and zero risk for the concept and general metagame balance, so there was no reason not to include it.

    Pursuit is important if we want to truly counter Lati@s. Admittedly, CAP is a good answer to them either way due to its sheer bulk and recovery, but it's been clear since the typing stage that we want eliminate them as a threat to sun, and there's more to that than just forcing them out. Sets with both Pursuit and Sucker Punch can add some fun to this matchup, as noted above. Wood Hammer and Leaf Blade are both good alternatives to Power Whip, if you're like me and find misses extremely frustrating. Including both means that players can choose their drawback: Malaconda won't enjoy Wood Hammer recoil, but its Leaf Blade is not particularly powerful. Thunder Fang is a situational move that may help to reduce the usage of Water-types, though I expect it to get approximately zero use. It's another move that might help and won't harm, and I see it mainly as a flavour move.


    Notable exclusions: Baton Pass, all paralysis moves, Super Fang, Encore

    I'm in the camp that doesn't want Malaconda to be able to pass subs or berry boosts, and sees popping Heatran's Balloon as a lesser evil. This is why I chose U-turn over Baton Pass. This Malaconda can do plenty to support its teammates without boosting its stats; just look at the egg moves again.

    The main advantage we have had in keeping Malaconda balanced is clear list of threats, some of which essentially hard counter it. This is important on a pokemon with all the versatile defensive options we want and the bulk and recovery to use them. Paralysis, I think, is against the spirit of this, since nearly every pokemon in the game is crippled by it. Even if they don't rely on speed to do their jobs, none of Malaconda's counters will appreciate the chance of being unable to move at all. Considering everything else I've given to Malaconda, paralysis is just too much. Super Fang is omitted in the same spirit, as it does too much damage to what are supposed to be clear Malaconda counters.

    Encore barely seems like a "notable" exclusion to me, to be honest. It's a very situational move that seems unlikely to win too many moveslots. I guess it can be used with Malaconda's Fire weakness to support something like a Heatran or Volcarona, but this Malaconda does enough to support them without it.
  5. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs Rule 51
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    I might try to come up with a submission some time next week, but there is one consideration I'd like to bring up. Several people have expressed concern about the possible disastrous effects of having both Rapid Spin and Spikes on Malaconda and just how that might affect Sun. Something Deck Knight said in the discussion thread inspired an idea that perhaps we can avoid this issue by being creative with the egg moves and finding some way to make both moves illegal together. For example, if Malaconda were to have the Grass and Monster egg groups, it would be able to get Spikes from Ferrothorn and Rapid Spin from Blastoise, but I don't believe there would be any way to get both from one parent. This would hopefully decrease the raw amount of utility that Malaconda could offer a Sun team at any given time and lessen the risk of breaking Sun. I might try to incorporate this into my own movepool if I get the time to design one, but in case I don't, I just thought I'd throw that idea out for anyone else who might want to run with it.
  6. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributor
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    FINAL SUBMISSION

    Level-Up (open)
    (18 moves, 6 VGMs)

    - Nasty Plot
    - Poison Tail
    - Torment
    - Wrap
    - Bite
    - Stun Spore
    - PoisonPowder
    6 - Stun Spore
    11 - PoisonPowder
    16 - Razor Leaf
    21 - Pursuit
    26 - Swagger
    31 - Leaf Tornado
    35 - Captivate
    41 - GrassWhistle
    46 - Dream Eater
    51 - Leaf Blade
    56 - Charm
    61 - Haze
    66 - Foul Play

    I was tempted to load up the LU pool with fangs, poison stuff, and other assorted "snakey" moves (Slam, Glare, Wring Out, etc.), but I chose to deviate from the Arbok/Seviper/Serperior template and instead push the "charming devil" angle from the Garden of Eden story. Like the devil in that story, Malaconda learns relatively early on that it can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, relying on its methods of manipulation to get its way and only revealing its true intentions after it's too late. In this way, Swagger leads into Captivate and then into Charm as Malaconda's conversational tactics grow more advanced, and from these moves come a couple narrative progressions. Firstly, Captivate leads into Grasswhistle as opponents are entranced and then lullabied into a state of comfort and security enough to fall asleep; it is in this state of vulnerability that Malaconda strikes, syphoning life force away from the unaware victim with Dream Eater. Likewise, Charmed opponents are blinded to Malaconda's tricks in a Haze before being treated to the full discovery of its Foul Play.

    In tandem with this theme are the three hidden, "ulterior motive" Heart Scale moves that reveal Malaconda's "Dark side": Nasty Plot (hidden agendas!), Poison Tail (closest I could get to a damnation apple / "fruit of knowledge" dangling from the Poke's tail), and Torment (original sin / Adam and Eve cast out of paradise). There is also an enormous 45-level gap between Dark-type moves (Pursuit <--> Foul Play), again as Malaconda masks its evil intentions behind a veil of charisma. For Grass moves, I honed in on the physical, actual grass (blades of grass) and leaf elements of the art design, which is reflected in a simple Razor Leaf --> Leaf Tornado --> Leaf Blade attack progression and GrassWhistle as a non-attacking use for the grass.

    From a biological standpoint, Malaconda and any potential pre-evolutions are hatched with the ability to Wrap and Bite, which should be understandable. I looked it up and anacondas are not venomous, so throughout the movepool I tried to avoid Poison-type moves that come from some interior source (e.g. Gastro Acid, Poison Fang, Gunk Shot, etc.). However, I couldn't just ignore the historic Pokemon connection between snakemons and Poison moves, so I selected PoisonPowder to bridge that divide and paired it with Stun Spore as low-level "grassy" moves that are often found together. Together they fit the grass-snake flavor better than either one would on its own and complete a Normal/Dark/Grass/Poison level 0 learn set (not factoring HS moves). Poison Tail complements this poison element without breaking my own flavor restrictions, while Haze has strong association with Poison-types without actually being a Poison-type move itself.

    With the number of the beast, I put six 6's in the singles digits of the levels in this learnset, two sets of three 6's, one at the beginning and one at the end. This results in most moves being learned 5 levels apart for a pretty easy-to-follow progression. Eh.

    Egg (open)
    (Field / Dragon groups; 12 moves, 6 VGMs)

    Covet
    Crunch
    Flatter
    Me First
    Power Whip
    Rage
    Rapid Spin
    Spikes
    Spit Up
    Stockpile
    Swallow
    Yawn

    Yeah I'm one of the folks doing the '7 Deadly Sins' theme here in the Egg pool because it's an entertaining thematic trope and also I couldn't resist. To this end I chose the following flavor moves for the Egg pool: Covet (representing Envy), Flatter (Lust), Me First (Pride), Rage (Wrath), Stockpile (Greed), Swallow (Gluttony), and Yawn (Sloth). I also included the famed Stockpile / Swallow / Spit Up trio shared by Arbok and Seviper and backed up by a thick HP stat, design-wise. Finally, since Malaconda is indeed a snakemon, I put it in the Field and Dragon Egg Groups where it belongs.

    TM/HM (open)
    (27 moves, 14 VGMs)

    TM06 - Toxic
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM11 - Sunny Day
    TM12 - Taunt
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM22 - SolarBeam
    TM27 - Return
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM41 - Torment
    TM42 - Facade
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM46 - Thief
    TM48 - Round
    TM53 - Energy Ball
    TM66 - Payback
    TM67 - Retaliate
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM77 - Psych Up
    TM82 - Dragon Tail
    TM85 - Dream Eater
    TM86 - Grass Knot
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM89 - U-turn
    TM90 - Substitute

    The TM/HM list is small because there's really not much available for flavor or competitive reasons compared to past CAPs. Aside from a handful of special attacks and required moves, I have included Dragon Tail and U-turn for manipulating switching turns. There are 27 moves here, with Torment, Dream Eater, and Swagger repeated from the LU pool, leaving 24 moves unique to this list.

    Tutor (open)
    (13 moves, 7 VGMs)

    Bind
    Covet
    Dark Pulse
    Dragon Pulse
    Foul Play
    Giga Drain
    Seed Bomb
    Sleep Talk
    Snatch
    Snore
    Super Fang
    Synthesis
    Worry Seed

    This list is actually nearly entirely comprised of flavor-based selections from the available options. Malaconda gets a couple extra STAB attacks in Dark Pulse and Seed Bomb and sun-based healing in Synthesis. There are 13 moves here, with Covet and Foul Play repeated from the LU/Egg pools, leaving 11 moves unique to this list.

    Summary (open)
    (65 moves, 31 VGMs)

    Physical VGMs (11):

    Crunch
    Dragon Tail
    Facade
    Foul Play
    Frustration / Return
    Leaf Blade / Seed Bomb
    Payback
    Power Whip
    Pursuit
    Super Fang
    U-turn

    Special VGMs (6):

    Dark Pulse
    Dragon Pulse
    Energy Ball
    Giga Drain
    Grass Knot
    Hidden Power

    Non-Attacking VGMs (14):

    Haze
    Nasty Plot
    Protect
    Rapid Spin
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Spikes
    Stockpile
    Stun Spore
    Substitute
    Synthesis
    Taunt
    Toxic
    Yawn

    --------------------

    This is a fairly conservative movepool overall in my estimation; I imagine Malaconda's most common sets becoming a mixture of dual-STABs and utility moves, specifically two of Rest, Synthesis, Rapid Spin, Spikes, Stun Spore, and U-turn. For a bulky pivot designed to aid Sun-based play styles through countering Lati@s and Water-types, this movepool provides exactly what is desirable and not too much more than that.

    Features:
    • For Dark STABs, there are a plethora of options: Pursuit, Foul Play, Crunch, and Payback offer a variety of power levels and risk/reward payouts. I left out Sucker Punch because I think we decided to deal with our Dark-weak foes through special bulk and priority sort of flies in the face of that.
    • Grass STAB comes down to Leaf Blade and Power Whip, but the choice will most likely go to Power Whip on common sets. Nothing controversial here.
    • There is no offensive coverage outside of Dragon Tail and U-turn. With only so much ground being covered by STAB attacks alone, Malaconda will have a broader and more diverse set of confident switch-ins.
    • For those potentially numerous times when something is for sure coming in that Malaconda for sure won't be able to handle, Dragon Tail and U-turn are both very balanced switching moves; they break Balloons while scouting and are unaffected by Taunt. Dragon Tail can be thwarted by its own lack of power in the face of enemy Substitutes, and its negative priority combined with six type weaknesses makes multi-turn phazing very difficult. U-turn is a must-have in my opinion, as it keeps Malaconda from ceding momentum to opposing U-turners or Fighting-types like Breloom and Terrakion every single time they are drawn in. U-turn will be pretty weak on most Malaconda builds, and its SE coverage is redundant with its own Dark STAB, making it almost a pure utility move. Anyways, both moves are good primarily on early switching turns to gauge opponents' responses to Malaconda, and they are included in the movepool because Malaconda cannot afford to be a sitting duck given the enormous threat level of its collective group of checks and counters. In terms of filling the roles currently occupied by Forretress and Donphan, these two moves go a long way in bridging that gap between simply Rapid Spinning and general utility.
    • Spikes is a little contentious, and I don't really think Malaconda has the typing for it; however, its support in tandem with Rapid Spin is worth a closer look as CAP tries to adequately replace Forretress/Donphan on sun teams. I was on the fence about Spikes before I removed Ice Fang and took away any realistic coverage from the movepool. Now without any offensive way past Landorus and Gliscor, the bonus of Spikes seems more balanced.
    • For healing, Malaconda has Rest and Synthesis, which seems to be the norm. Rest has good cohesion with Harvest and Lum Berry, while non-Lum/Chesto sets can still utilize the sun-boosted Synthesis.
    • Stun Spore is included, although detractors acknowledge the minimal impact the move is likely to have on the Poke's functionality. It's the happy middle ground between Glare and Thunder Wave and should be agreeable to most people. At the end of the day, it really doesn't impact Malaconda's hardest checks and counters, but it does give our CAP a somewhat relevant niche for Sun, which is why I decided to include it.
    • I think our CAP has a decent chance of aiding a sweeper teammate like Venusaur and Volcarona by softening up stubborn foes with Super Fang, but it remains a niche option. Everything else, like Haze and Nasty Plot, are worthless flavor.
    • Notable exclusions include Sucker Punch and Ice Fang (explained in the above bullet points), and then Wild Charge and Extremespeed for much the same reasons. No offensive coverage and no priority means no distractions from the CAP's utility role as a targeted counter of Lati@s and Water-types. Aromatherapy, Baton Pass, Mean Look, Confuse Ray, Destiny Bond, Encore, Healing Wish, Knock Off, Magic Coat, Memento, Roar, and Volt Switch all seem strategically worthless to me and/or outperformed by included moves like U-turn and Dragon Tail. In any case these 'bad' VGMs don't match the flavor of the movepool any better than the bad VGMs I've already included for flavor reasons, so they miss the cut.
  7. srk1214

    srk1214 That ain't Hoopa!
    is a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    WIP

    full movepool (open)
    62/32

    VGMs

    Crunch
    Dark Pulse
    Dragon Pulse
    Dragon Tail
    Energy Ball
    Facade
    Foul Play
    Frustration
    Giga Drain
    Glare
    Grass Knot
    Haze
    Hidden Power
    Iron Tail
    Knock Off
    Leaf Blade
    Mean Look
    Nasty Plot
    Outrage
    Payback
    Power Whip
    Protect
    Pursuit
    Rapid Spin
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Spikes
    Substitute
    Sucker Punch
    Synthesis
    Taunt
    Toxic

    Other moves

    Attract
    Bind
    Bite
    Cut
    Double Team
    Giga Impact
    Hyper Beam
    Leer
    Punishment
    Return (duplicate of Frustration)
    Rock Smash
    Round
    Scary Face
    Seed Bomb (outclassed by Leaf Blade)
    Slam
    Snarl
    Snatch
    Snore
    SolarBeam
    Spite
    Strength
    Sunny Day
    Swagger
    Thief
    Torment
    Twister
    Vine Whip
    Worry Seed
    Wrap
    Wring Out


    level-up (open)



    TM (open)
    27 moves (12 VGMs)

    HM01 Cut
    HM04 Strength
    TM06 Toxic*
    TM10 Hidden Power*
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt*
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect*
    TM21 Frustration*
    TM22 SolarBeam
    TM27 Return (repeat)
    TM32 Double Team
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade*
    TM44 Rest*
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM53 Energy Ball*
    TM66 Payback*
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM82 Dragon Tail*
    TM86 Grass Knot*
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute*
    TM94 Rock Smash
    TM95 Snarl


    tutor (open)
    15 moves (9 VGMs)

    Bind
    Dark Pulse*
    Dragon Pulse*
    Foul Play*
    Giga Drain*
    Iron Tail*
    Knock Off*
    Outrage*
    Seed Bomb (outclassed by Leaf Blade)
    Sleep Talk*
    Snatch
    Snore
    Spite
    Synthesis*
    Worry Seed


    egg moves (Dragon/Field) (open)
    Haze*
    Mean Look*


    going to add back in extra stuff I had cut out earlier to fit the reduced limits. Not adding in any of the Fangs. I find them unnecessary and overblown. Flavorwise, it's fine too. Serperior doesn't have em. The VGMs I am considering adding back in are U-turn, Aromatherapy, or maybe a different one.
  8. Nyktos

    Nyktos Custom Loser Title
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    565
    Final Submission

    Overview
    Competitive (open)
    Well, let's start with the big exclusions: no Glare, and no Spikes. My reasons for excluding paralysis are the same reasons I argued against it in the other thread. I did end up including some of the moves I argued against allowing, but this is one I knew from the beginning I wasn't going to budge on, as it has absolutely no redeeming features in my view. (The exception being flavour, but competitive reasoning has to come first.) I very much hope that at least one movepool without paralysis moves ends up on the slate.

    Spikes is a little bit different. I'd initially intended to include it if it won the poll, despite voting against, since my negative feelings toward it weren't nearly as strong. However, I ended up deciding to exclude it for one reason, and that's that it has more potential than nearly any other move to become a massive distraction. Look through the list of Pokémon with Spikes some time: it's a defining move for nearly every single one of them. Many of them have a Spikes set as their only set, and for all but five of them it's a main slash on the first set in every tier they have an analysis for. (And two of those five have Shell Smash.) Now, there's nothing wrong necessarily with Malaconda having Spikes on its standard set. However, Rapid Spin is also a very defining move, and Malaconda can't run both of them without giving up on the role we intended it to have, namely beating Waters and Psychics. I fear the temptation to run both moves will be too strong, so I decided to include only one or the other. Since Spin is much more important to sun, I skipped out on Spikes.

    With those two aside, I included just about everything relevant of the allowed non-attacking moves, since I would like Malaconda to be able to run sets other than STAB/STAB/Spin/recovery, even if they are likely worse. Phazing (Roar and Dragon Tail), switching (U-turn), and the sun-recovery moves are probably the most relevant inclusions (along with Spin itself). I was opposed to sun-recovery, but others overwhelmingly favoured it and I don't think that gimmicky Occa sets are nearly as much of a worry as Spikes or Glare is. Haze and Baton Pass are somewhat notable exclusions, but since I included other moves that play similar roles I didn't feel the need to put those two in. Knock Off I nearly included, since it seemed harmless, but it doesn't really do anything positive for Malaconda's goal, and the fact that it's actually really good against a Choice Band Scizor switchin made me decided it wasn't worth having.

    On the attacking move side, I chose to avoid giving Malaconda any coverage moves with more than 70 BP, since I want it to be relying primarily on its STABs for damage. I did include both of the legal fangs, since while I honestly don't really expect them to be very useful compared to the other options I've given Malaconda, I think having a three-attack set as a lesser but still viable option is healthy for Malaconda. To make up a bit for the lack of strong coverage, I included a number of viable STAB moves, especially on the Dark side. I definitely wanted to include Crunch, Payback, and Sucker Punch because I'm interested to see which of them ends up becoming the Dark move of choice. Foul Play and Pursuit also have some potential, as does the non-VGM Punishment. On the Grass side, Power Whip is certainly the best option, but Bullet Seed has its perks and Seed Bomb is there for the accuracy freaks I guess.

    More move-specific commentary is in the list of VGMs below.
    Flavour (open)
    I based the flavour around the theme of "temptation". Well, that was the idea, at least. I didn't really come up with quite as many moves to represent this as I'd hoped to, but I did include as many as I could. Malaconda wants to lure you in, whether by flattery (Encore, Flatter), tempting the senses (GrassWhistle, Sweet Scent), or just by giving you a tasty apple (Worry Seed, Present). Other than that, I took some inspiration from other snake-like Pokémon, specifically Ekans/Arbok, Seviper, and the Snivy line. The most obvious snakey moves are Coil and Glare, which are respectively disallowed and excluded for competitive reasoning, but there are a bunch of biting moves at least.

    Most of the moves from cape's list are included. Of the exceptions, most of them (Captivate, Double-Edge, Endure, Mimic, Secret Power) are moves that likely made it onto the list because they were TMs or move tutors with near-universal distribution in previous generations, but no longer are, and Knock Off was excluded for competitive reasons. The remaining exceptions are Cut and Scary Face, which don't really seem to mesh flavour-wise. Malaconda doesn't really have much way to cut things (Serperior gets Cut, but its earlier stages have arms), and scaring things away is the opposite of the temptation/luring flavour I was going for.

    More specific commentary is (slowly being added) in the various Comments sections in the movepool itself.
    List of VGMs (open)
    Grass Attacks
    Bullet Seed
    Power Whip
    Seed Bomb

    As I said, I wanted to give Malaconda some variety among STAB attacks. Sadly, on the Grass side, there wasn't much to be had. I knew from the start I wanted Power Whip because it's the best way to beat Politoed, which is of course one of our main targets. However, aside from the disallowed Horn Leech, there really aren't any physical Grass moves that do anything besides hit for some damage, and thus all of them are overshadowed by Power Whip to the point of not really mattering. I did include Bullet Seed, which is nice for breaking subs I guess, but it's hitting for less damage than Seed Bomb on average and only slightly more than Power Whip in the best case. I thought about including Leaf Blade and/or Wood Hammer, but neither of them really add anything competitively and they're both questionable flavourwise, so I skipped them.

    Dark Attacks
    Crunch
    Foul Play
    Payback
    Pursuit
    Sucker Punch

    Here, on the other hand, there is real variety, and assuming we get a final movepool with most of these I will be very interested to see what the best Dark STAB ends up being. Crunch is the most reliable, but Payback is potentially a lot stronger with Malaconda's low Speed, and Sucker Punch's priority is always appreciated. Pursuit is something that was really hyped up early in the CAP, but I don't think it will actually be all that useful on the Pokémon we've made, as coming from 100 base Atk on something unlikely to be investing a ton, it just doesn't do enough when the opponent doesn't switch. However, I know people still want it, and I could easily be proven wrong. Foul Play is a little bit weird since Malaconda has reasonable Atk and will mostly be using Dark STAB on special attackers, so I expect it will probably turn out to be terrible. However, it's such a unique move that I could hardly claim to be dedicated to variety in Dark attacks without including it.

    Support
    Aromatherapy
    Rapid Spin
    Sunny Day

    Spin is the most important one here, of course. Spin was another move that I took as a starting point: I wanted Malaconda to be able to support its team, and Spin is just about the best support move there is for sun, so it was one of the first things I knew for sure I would be including. I didn't feel the need to overload Malaconda with other support options since Spin is so much better than everything else, but Aromatherapy was a nice option that helps Malaconda with its status problem on non-Lum sets and can also be a huge boon to Ninetales who really hates getting hit with Toxic. I think it's a reasonable choice for those who want to run Malaconda in a supporting capacity but are using another spinner. Sunny Day is barely competitive, but sun teams do often like to include one or more Pokémon that carry it, and while Malaconda is unlikely the best choice for that given how many better things it could be doing, it's not outside the realms of possibility that someone will want to use it. Besides, it would just be silly to build something specifically to be a sunmon and then not give it Sunny Day.


    Recovery
    Moonlight / Synthesis
    Rest

    Rest is, of course, part of the LumRest strategy which was essentially what was actually voted in under the proxy of "Harvest". My reasoning for including it here is the same as it was in the NAM discussion, namely that we have basically built every aspect of this Pokémon around LumRest since Harvest was picked. It's also one of the more concept-friendly uses of Harvest, and helps a lot with tanking some of the stronger hits that Malaconda is supposed to. Sun-recovery I was against before, and while I still have some concerns about it, it seems few others share those concerns and in truth I don't think stupid Occa sets are as big a problem as, say, Glare. Certainly, the ability to run berries other than Lum and Sitrus, or to run non-berry sets, opens up Malaconda to a lot of potentially interesting options, many of which are not inherently anti-concept.


    Coverage
    Ice Fang
    Thunder Fang

    I think that having an offensive set is actually good for Malaconda. A lot of people are likely to disagree with this, and I should qualify that statement by saying that I certainly don't want it to be Malaconda's best or most common set. It's worth noting though that going offensive does not at all disagree with Malaconda's purpose: it still beats the things it's meant to beat and loses to the things it's meant to lose to, while (presumably) filling a needed role on the team. To that end, I included a couple of coverage moves, but only relatively weak ones. These moves are good enough if you choose to go offensive, but not so good as to encourage doing so on their own. (Okay, maybe Ice Fang does if your team is really scared of dragons—but that's only likely to be effective if dragons can't switch in on anything else on your team, since Malaconda can't actually switch in on most of them.)

    General Utility
    Dragon Tail
    Encore
    Roar
    Taunt
    U-turn

    These moves don't fit neatly into a specific category, so this is sort of the "other" category of competitive moves on Malaconda. The phazing moves are here primarily to deal with setup sweepers, of which there are several on our target list. I anticipate Roar being the stronger one since it's a better way to deal with substitutes, but like with the Dark STABs I wanted to include both options just to see which would end up being better. I don't think the little damage that Dragon Tail does is likely to cause problems: even with investment, it doesn't do a ton to any of our counters. Encore provides another option for trolling setup sweepers and it also can be used on various other non-attacking moves such as Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin. However it requires prediction since Malaconda will normally be going second. All of our counters can beat us by simply attacking, so the presence of phazing moves and Encore is a way to keep them honest, as it were: they win, but only if they don't get greedy with predicting a switch and trying to set up.

    Taunt is not especially useful to Malaconda, but it can prevent opponents from trying to set up Spikes, for instance, and it can prevent things from healing in stall wars. For most purposes it's inferior to Encore, admittedly. Finally, U-turn is one of the other moves I took as a starting point: its ability to grab momentum is incredibly helpful to sun teams. I think that if Malaconda has a solid non-Spin set, U-turn will play a major role, and with that in mind I knew I wanted to include it. The worries about U-turning out of Heatran into Dugtrio are founded, I must admit. However, most Heatran don't carry balloons, at which point Baton Pass or just plain prediction have the same effect. As such, I didn't really consider using Baton Pass or Volt Switch to be preferable to U-turn. The fact that U-turn actually does damage to Latias or Politoed if it doesn't switch is important, in my opinion, because it prevents targets from easily "outsmarting" Malaconda by staying in on a predicted switch.


    Gimmes
    Frustration / Return
    Facade
    Protect
    Substitute
    Toxic

    Malaconda gets these because everything else does. Substitute and Toxic were required anyway, and there's no reason why the others would be so broken as to break the precedent that nearly every Pokémon gets them. Normal attacks are never going to be run on a non-Normal-type with dual STABs and any coverage options whatsoever. Protect makes Harvest safer outside of sun, which I imagine is why it wasn't required, but as I've said a few times I don't have nearly as much a problem as others do with the idea of non-sun teams using Malaconda on occasion. (Though I don't think anyone is scared enough of that to remove Protect for fear of it anyway.) Wasting a moveslot to make Harvest 75% instead of 50% is pretty questionable anyway, especially if you're also running Rest.

    Not Actually Competitive
    Dark Pulse
    Energy Ball
    Giga Drain
    Grass Knot
    Leaf Storm
    Hidden Power
    Sleep Talk

    These were included for flavour reasons, more or less. Sleep Talk and Hidden Power are more gimmes, but they're just completely awful here since Malaconda has terrible SpA and a much better way to get around the downside of Rest. The others are mostly special STAB moves with wide distributions due to being TMs or move tutors. Leaf Storm is an exception; it has a lower distribution. However it was on cape's precedent list, isn't too much of a flavour fail, and I happened to have one free VGM slot.


    Movepool
    Level-up moves (open)
    -- Lick
    -- Wrap
    5 Razor Leaf
    10 GrassWhistle
    13 Bite
    18 Encore*
    23 Sweet Scent
    26 Faint Attack
    31 Worry Seed
    36 Bullet Seed*
    39 Crunch*
    44 Moonlight*
    49 Flatter
    52 Power Whip*

    14 moves / 5 VGMs
    Comments (open)
    My primary templates for the level-up list were Lapras and to a lesser extent Seviper. I looked at Lapras because it's a single-stager that statwise resembles a fully-evolved Pokémon; we obviously don't know whether Malaconda will have a prevo but it doesn't feel like it should to me, so I built my movepool assuming it doesn't. (Of course, that doesn't mean that choosing this movepool means we can't give it one!) Seviper, as the one snakemon that's a single-stager, was looked at primarily as a guide to what levels were appropriate for "snake moves", though a lot of things were shifted around anyway. The fact that my level 0 moves are exactly the same as Seviper's is actually a coincidence; I chose them in my very first draft level-up list, which was based entirely on Lapras. All the attacking moves are fairly self-explanatory: Lick is a generic weak attack, Wrap is something that all the snakes get at a low level, and then there are a bunch of STAB attacks that get progressively stronger. (Okay, it's questionable whether Faint Attack is really better than Bite, but it does tend to be learned at higher levels on real Pokémon. I wanted to include Faint Attack because "draws the foe close, then strikes without fail" is just perfect for Malaconda, but I also felt like I should include Bite since I have Crunch and the elemental fangs, and Ekans/Arbok and Seviper get it.)

    The non-attacking moves were mostly chosen based on the temptation theme. GrassWhistle and Sweet Scent distract the senses, while Encore and Flatter appeal to the ego. Worry Seed is something of a relic of an earlier version of the movepool, where I emphasized moves which cause an effect that might either be positive or negative. (Flatter still does that, of course.) Worry Seed is not really a temptation move as such, but I liked having at least one move in the level-up which suggests the opponent actually eating the apple. Finally, Moonlight I admit was partially added as a "sure why not" because jas and some other people on #cap really wanted it. That being said, Malaconda being a creature of the night is appropriate both because of the association of nighttime and sinful dealings, and because it's based on a pitviper which are nocturnal in real life. It's also a sun move that isn't really conceptually related to sun, which I think is fitting for Malaconda.

    The specific levels chosen were based on the levels real Pokémon learn these moves at whenever possible. That said, fitting the moves I wanted meant some things ended up in weird places; for instance, while Croagunk and Toxicroak do learn Flatter at stupidly high levels, most things get it no later than the late 30s, and the only actual Dark-types that get it by level-up (Vullaby and Mandibuzz) do so in the late teens. Bullet Seed is similar, with Remoraid and Octillery getting it at high levels but Grass-types usually getting it much lower. Most moves, though, are fairly close to the median for real Pokémon that get the move. I also made sure that there was at least one attack in every four-move interval so it's guaranteed to have one when encountered in the wild regardless of level.

    TM/HM moves (open)
    TM05 Roar*
    TM06 Toxic*
    TM10 Hidden Power*
    TM11 Sunny Day*
    TM12 Taunt*
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect*
    TM21 Frustration*
    TM22 SolarBeam
    TM27 Return**
    TM32 Double Team
    TM42 Facade*
    TM44 Rest*
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM53 Energy Ball*
    TM63 Embargo
    TM66 Payback*
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash
    TM82 Dragon Tail*
    TM86 Grass Knot*
    TM87 Swagger
    TM89 U-turn*
    TM90 Substitute*
    TM95 Snarl

    27 moves / 15 VGMs
    Comments (open)
    There isn't really a hell of a lot to say about the TM list. Most of them were chosen for competitive reasons (see "list of VGMs" above) and/or are learned by fully-evolved Pokémon by default. Out of the remainder, SolarBeam, Thief, and Snarl were chosen primarily due to being STAB moves; Thief in particular fits pretty well flavourwise since Malaconda is a meanie who probably steals stuff. Embargo is a more or less flavourless move, but it seems mean and nasty enough for Malaconda and it's a Dark-type move anyway. Flash has a bizarrely high distribution among Grass-types with no obvious way to use it, so Malaconda might as well follow suit. I guess it can make the apple glow or something.

    Tutor moves (open)
    Bind
    Dark Pulse*
    Foul Play*
    Gastro Acid
    Giga Drain*
    Seed Bomb*
    Sleep Talk*
    Snatch
    Snore
    Synthesis**
    Worry Seed^

    10 moves / 5 VGMs
    Comments (open)
    The tutor list is mildly more interesting than the TM list, but only just. As there, most of these are here for competitive reasons. Bind and Gastro Acid are moves that snakemons typically learn, Dark Pulse and Giga Drain are noncompetitive STAB moves, Snore and Sleep Talk are learned by most everything, and Worry Seed is a repeat of a move learned by level. Snatch is another "mean" Dark-type move; it also has gimmicky competitive applications despite not being a VGM, for trolling Lati@s and anything else that might try to set up or healspam on Malaconda. (Though it's entirely inferior to Encore.) Finally, Synthesis is learned by the majority of Grass-types, so even though I included Moonlight as a level-up move it seemed like it should be there.

    Egg moves (Field / Dragon) (open)
    Aromatherapy*
    Follow Me
    Ice Fang*
    Leaf Storm*
    Present
    Punishment
    Pursuit*
    Rapid Spin*
    Sucker Punch*
    Thunder Fang*

    10 moves / 7 VGMs
    Comments (open)
    The egg list is usually where competitive moves that aren't TMs but don't make enough flavour sense for level-up are jammed. However, I was pleasantly surprised with Malaconda to find that there ended up being just one move like that this time, namely Rapid Spin. Aromatherapy, Pursuit, and Sucker Punch are here for competitive reasons, but the latter two are STAB moves with completely acceptable flavour (keep in mind that Sucker Punch is just Surprise Attack in Japanese) and the former is an on-type status move that fits pretty well with Sweet Scent in level-up. Punishment is another STAB move and was chosen for semi-competitive reasons since some of our targets (primarily the Latis) are stat-boosters. Like Snatch, this is pretty gimmicky, but could be kind of fun. The flavour isn't bad either, following the logic of Malaconda -> Satan -> Hell -> punishment.

    The rest were chosen for purely flavour reasons. I know cape doesn't much like Follow Me, but I just couldn't help it: it fits too damn well, both with the temptation theme and just the fact that Malaconda has an apple on its tail. It would probably be in level-up if it weren't for the fact that the Japanese name is actually Stay With This Finger, which is a little problematic for a snake. That said, such breaches of anatomical logic happen here and there, and I liked the idea of it enough to include it as an egg move. Present is very silly, but how can you not love Malaconda using explosive apples as a weapon? It's actually a pretty sinister move if you think about it; based on the in-game description, you're literally giving the opponent a bomb disguised as a gift. With that in mind it's a surprise no Dark-types get it. Finally Leaf Storm was mostly added because I wanted more than one Grass-type move in egg, and it's on cape's list. Flavourwise it's basically a stronger version of Razor Leaf which Malaconda gets by level. (I have no idea why one is physical and the other special; they have the exact same flavour.)

    I put Malaconda in the Field group since that's where all the other snakes are, and the Dragon group because...that's where several of the other snakes are (and most reptiles in general). I didn't like the Grass group because Malaconda is much more animal than plant; there's predent here in, for example, the Treecko line. Since it's in the Field group, all egg move combinations are legal, but it's worth noting that all of these moves are available from non-Smeargle parents as well.


    Total: 61 moves / 32 VGMs

    * = VGM
    ** = equivalent/outclassed VGM
    ^ = repeat
  9. Menace13

    Menace13

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    71
    Show Hide
    Total moves: 63 (I think)
    VGMs: 30 (I think)

    * = VGM
    *! = VGM covered later by a VGM which outclasses it
    *^ = VGM covered earlier on the list by an equivalent or itself
    & = any move which was already listed

    Level-Up moves (18-1=17):
    0 - Bite
    0 - Leer
    0 - Vine Whip
    0 - Wrap
    6 - &Leer
    10 - Sweet Scent
    14 - Glare*
    18 - Scary Face
    23 - Razor Leaf
    27 - Twineedle
    31 - Crunch*
    35 - Flatter
    38 - Poison Fang
    42 - Nasty Plot*!
    45 - Spikes*
    50 - Power Whip*
    56 - Aromatherapy*
    62 - Tail Glow*

    TM/HM moves (26):
    TM06 Toxic*
    TM10 Hidden Power*
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt*
    TM17 Protect*
    TM21 Frustration*
    TM22 SolarBeam
    TM27 Return*^
    TM32 Double Team
    TM41 Torment
    TM44 Rest*
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM53 Energy Ball*
    TM56 Fling
    TM66 Payback*
    TM67 Retaliate
    TM70 Flash
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM82 Dragon Tail*
    TM87 Swagger
    TM89 U-Turn*
    TM90 Substitute*
    TM95 Snarl
    HM04 Strength


    Move Tutor moves (11):
    Dark Pulse*
    Foul Play*
    Gastro Acid
    Giga Drain*
    Iron Tail*
    Knock Off*
    Seed Bomb*
    Sleep Talk*
    Snore
    Super Fang*
    Synthesis*


    Egg moves (Field and Dragon Egg Groups) (11-2=9):
    Body Slam*
    Captivate
    Lick
    Mean Look*
    &Poison Fang
    Poison Tail
    Punishment
    Pursuit*
    &Scary Face
    Thunder Fang*
    Wring Out



    Explanations:
    First of all, much of my decisions were largely based upon a mix of two obvious Pokémon: Serperior and Arbok. Arbok is the original snake, and Serperior is a Grass-Type Pokémon. With those two as a base, along with other similar Pokémon (such as Seviper) and aspects of Malaconda, I managed to come up with this movepool.

    I picked the Dragon Egg Group because most members of the Dragon Egg Group "are reptilian and look like serpents, lizards, or dragons" (Bulbapedia). For the Field Egg Group, Seviper, Serperior, and Arbok are all in it along with their secondary Egg Group (Dragon for Seviper and Arbok, Grass for Serperior). The Grass Egg Group is largely for Pokémon based on plants, and Malaconda does not seem to be a plant in itself; rather, it appears to use the plants as camouflage. Thus I put it in the Field and Dragon Egg Groups instead of Grass and whatever. Brofist to Korski for agreeing on it being a Snakemon.

    Feel free to ask me questions about my inclusions or exclusions, as I'm sure I made some questionable choices.

    Exact same list from above but with me explaining each move:
    Show Hide
    Level-Up moves (18-1=17):
    0 - Bite - Snakes bite.
    0 - Leer - Physical Pokémon, and most snakes get it.
    0 - Vine Whip - Whip that tail!
    0 - Wrap - Snakes wrap around you and squeeze you and kill you.
    6 - &Leer - See above.
    10 - Sweet Scent - Man, apples smell great!
    14 - Glare* - Dem eyes. They be starin'. Best form of paralysis, very useful.
    18 - Scary Face - His face looks scary. VERY useful for him, as it can freeze a switch-in and allow Malaconda to get a hit, whether with U-Turn to switch out or with Power Whip or a Dark STAB.
    23 - Razor Leaf - He can shoot his eyebrows at his opponents. Basic STAB for low levels.
    27 - Twineedle - Pretty weak move, but gives him a Bug attack for hitting Grass and Dark Pokémon, and he can use it by shooting out needles. Cloyster gets it, so I don't see why Malaconda wouldn't.
    31 - Crunch* - Bite evolved into Crunch! Basic Dark STAB for all levels.
    35 - Flatter - He's a charming devil (all puns intended).
    38 - Poison Fang - He is a snake. He has fangs. Poisonous fangs. His only real way to hit Grassmons hard.
    42 - Nasty Plot*! - He's evil, of course he's plotting! Pretty useless on him though.
    45 - Spikes* - Why wouldn't he be able to shoot all those spikes on his body around his enemy and leave them there? Left out Rapid Spin in exchange for Spikes because no Grass or Dark Pokémon has ever had Rapid Spin while both have had Spikes.
    50 - Power Whip* - The best Grass STAB in the game, and his most useful STAB. Hits hard off that high Attack stat.
    56 - Aromatherapy* - Mmmmmm, I like apples. I feel better now.
    62 - Tail Glow* - The golden apple shines, preparing him to use, what, 6 different Special attacks? No Baton Pass so that people will have to watch out for special sweepers. Easy to use on the switch.

    TM/HM moves (26):
    TM06 Toxic* - Every Snake has poison! Learned by almost everything.
    TM10 Hidden Power* - Anything that can learn TMs...
    TM11 Sunny Day - Grass-type, Harvest... Just in general, he's made to be a Sunnymon.
    TM12 Taunt* - He's not giving you that apple, bitch! He's just taunting you. Useful on the switch in if they switch in Ferrothorn, etc. which walls Malaconda.
    TM17 Protect* - Anything that can learn TMs...
    TM21 Frustration* - He's MAD. VERY mad. Good Normal attack.
    TM22 SolarBeam - He's grassy, and he needs SOME special attacks.
    TM27 Return*^ - He's HAPPY. VERY happy. Good Normal attack.
    TM32 Double Team - Snake army, unite! Almost everything learns it.
    TM41 Torment - He's not just taunting you, he's tormenting you. Flavor Dark move.
    TM44 Rest* - Snakes like to take naps in the sun. True story. No but seriously, Rest is everywhere.
    TM45 Attract - He can charm the ladies with his apple. Useless, basically.
    TM46 Thief - He is greedy, he will steal your stuff cuz he's Dark. Dark move, could be fun on an Infiltrator moveset.
    TM48 Round - Anything that can learn TMs...
    TM53 Energy Ball* - Grass special STAB. Most Grass-types get it.
    TM56 Fling - He can swing his tail. It makes sense that he could fling an item with his tail. Seems like it could make a fun gimmicky move, kinda like Iron Ball Tyranitar.
    TM66 Payback* - Strong Dark STAB, a bit harder hitting than Crunch, works well with his slow speed.
    TM67 Retaliate - He gets really angry when you kill his teammates. Furthermore, he's a pivot, so it makes sense for him to be able to be a revenge switch-in, too, although not a revenge killer due to his speed.
    TM70 Flash - Dat apple can shine!
    TM77 Psych Up - He always stays one step ahead of his opponents. If they boost, so does he. This gives him an unreliable way to boost even stats which he can't normally boost.
    TM82 Dragon Tail* - Lickitung gets it. Lickitung. The important thing is that Serperior gets it, and that gives precedent for the next Grass snake to get it. He swings the tail hard enough to be a Power Whip, so it must be hard enough to knock the opponents back.
    TM87 Swagger - Almost everything gets it, and he has Flatter, too, so this makes sense.
    TM89 U-Turn* - Because snakes are always found in the shape of a U. Also, he is a pivot, so it makes sense.
    TM90 Substitute* - Most things get this. It makes sense, as he is evil, that he would substitute himself, protecting himself at all costs.
    TM95 Snarl - A rare move, but it makes sense, especially since it is Dark.
    HM04 Strength - Serperior, Seviper, and Arbok all learn it. I figure snakes must have a lot more strength than they seem to. High Attack stat supports it.


    Move Tutor moves (11):
    Dark Pulse* - Special Dark STAB, most Dark-types get it, and it's a pretty useful move. The apple dims to black, then shoots out the pulse of darkness.
    Foul Play* - Snakes never play fair, especially ones which try to trick you with apples. Good physical STAB to abuse against his physical counter switch-ins.
    Gastro Acid - Snakes have lots of acid inside them. They spit it up to remove their opponents' abilities.
    Giga Drain* - Good special Grass STAB, allows a special build to be viable and free up the moveslot that would otherwise carry Synthesis.
    Iron Tail* - His tail is literally the most powerful thing in the world, I swear. Iron hits a lot neutrally which his STAB attacks wouldn't (Hydreigon, for example).
    Knock Off* - Because fuck items, man. I hate them. They should all just go away. Useful for the free hit on switch-ins as well as to weaken or cripple them.
    Seed Bomb* - Weaker physical STAB which doesn't miss, unlike Power Whip.
    Sleep Talk* - Because how else is he going to kill things while he sleeps?
    Snore - Oh, that's how.
    Super Fang* - His fangs are pretty prominent, and with this, he would be able to weaken any switch-in drastically off the bat, then pivot out to something which can finish it.
    Synthesis* - It makes sense, since he loves the sun so much. Best recovery move for him, not useful on rain but amazing in sun.


    Egg moves (Field and Dragon Egg Groups) (11-2=9):
    Body Slam - A less viable form of paralysis caused by slamming his body into his opponent. Glare is better, but Body Slam has its uses as a Normal attack to hit a lot neutrally.
    Captivate - Because he wasn't a good enough special wall already. That apple draws all the attention from him :'(
    Lick - Other snakes can teach him to lick his opponent, which is really not useful in the slightest.
    Mean Look* - Well, seeing as he has a scary face and can leer at the opponent, a mean look isn't that big of a deal. It's not that good of a move, but it could be useful at times to trap a troublesome opponent.
    &Poison Fang - See above.
    Poison Tail - Because his tail has spikes in it with which to stab into the enemy and inject his venom. It is also an alright attack for an egg.
    Punishment - He's the mighty snake! He can punish whoever he sees fit. However, he usually punishes the opponents who try to boost their stats without caring about him.
    Pursuit* - Snakes can move surprisingly fast. He can chase his opponent, then murder them. A pursuit trapper suits him, especially since he is slow.
    &Scary Face - See above.
    Thunder Fang* - Only electric attack he can learn, it gives him a good attack with which to hit Steel-types neutrally, which he otherwise would not be able to hit.
    Wring Out - Snakes will wrap around you then squeeze you until you die. Even if you are a Wailord. Regardless, it is a flavor move.

    Anyways, that's all I got for now. PLEASE, PLEASE, someone count my numbers for me, I feel like I screwed it up during the many changes I did. Comments appreciated!
  10. Qwilphish

    Qwilphish Mind over Matter
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2012
    Messages:
    526
    != VGM
    *= REPEAT
    Final Submission

    Level-Up (open)

    *Explanations for Block and Foul Play under Tutors

    -Astonish
    -Fake Out!
    7- Vine Whip
    10- Bite
    14- Confuse Ray!
    17- Scary Face
    20- Block!
    24- Pursuit!
    27- Foul Play!
    30- Grudge
    33- Leaf Blade!
    37- Copycat
    40- Bestow
    43- Crunch!
    47- Charm
    50- Flatter
    53- Follow Me
    57- Sucker Punch!
    60- Fake Tears
    63- Sweet Scent
    66- Power Whip!

    The order of which the moves are placed tells the story of Malaconda's experience as a con-man (consnake?). Malaconda starts out using surprise tactics (Fake Out and Astonish) and cheap tricks (Flinching with Bite and Confusing with Confuse Ray) in an attempt to coax people to his apple. However, once it realizes the tactic doesn't work, it tries out using intimidation as his primary tactic through moves like Scary Face, Pursuit, and Grudge. Eventually, Malaconda begins to watch other con-men in action and decides to copy(cat) them and learn the art of seduction and sympathy with moves like Charm and Flatter. Moves like Follow Me and Bestow were learned by Malaconda studying Togekiss, the most deceptive Pokemon in existence (it is often said that opponents of Togekiss are often paralyzed in the face of the beast; flinching at every move it makes). Despite their cute appearance, they tend to be the most deceptive, tempting the opponent to follow them while a partner deals the finishing blow, and Bestow does the same, except for that with Bestow, Togekiss attempt to make friends instead and the pattern continues. However, Malaconda tend to travel alone so it created its own surprise attack known as Sucker Punch in replacement of a partner. After studying the manic Togekiss, Malaconda begins to finalize its skills by learning how to fake its emotions while also refining its previous craft of intimidation by powering up its most powerful STABs, for when its unknowing victims fall for the sweet, sweet seduction that it created.

    The Level-Up System follows a 3-4-3 pattern to repeat the numbers ending in 7 (7,17,27...) that started at the first level-up move to represent the Seven Deadly Sins. Well, this trend does go on... except on the last one. Someone... Or something evil seems to be eager at having Malaconda learning its final move. The focus of the moves switches from more surprising and disruptive moves, to more persuasive moves as written above at Level 37: Copycat.

    For VGMs in this list, there aren't many controversial moves, with most of the VGMs being the STABs. I decided to run Power Whip over Wood Hammer due to Wood Hammer's perfect accuracy and our access to instant recovery to offset the recoil. If accuracy is an issue, I also included access to the more accurate, but less powerful, Leaf Blade. The three Dark STABs all have the potential to be 80 Power so the preference is up to the user to decide which of the three they feel is best fit. The final two VGM sappers are Fake Out and Confuse Ray, two moves that are fairly harmless and only provide flavor.

    7 VGMs

    Tutor Moves (open)

    Tutors:
    Knock Off!
    Foul Play*
    Dark Pulse!
    Covet
    Sleep Talk!
    Worry Seed
    Snore
    Heal Bell!
    Synthesis!
    Seed Bomb*
    Giga Drain!
    Block*

    The Tutor moves are a wide variety of niche-fulfilling, but not overly useful moves such as Heal Bell and Block. They may see use, however Malaconda's 4MSS diminishes the value of these possibly precious moves.
    Heal Bell allows for us to (sorry for this horrible reason) support our teammates by healing them from possibly game-breaking paralysis or a crippling burn. This reasoning is bad as it allows for utility on other teams, however due to Harvest, you lose the reliability that you have in Sun.
    Block is less of a competitive move as much as it is flavor because of how incrediy niche it is. All of the possible applications of Block, besides Toxic Stall, is accomplished by U-Turn or Dragon Tail, nor does it allow us to beat anything that we couldn't of otherwise. Block is also flavor by having Malaconda be persistent in its quest and it will not simply take no as an answer. Block is over Mean Look because Malaconda is more of a deceiver and Mean Look is much more obvious of a move than Block is with it simply blocking the path of exit.
    The most controversial (even then it really isn't) is the addition of Synthesis. Synthesis is another move that cements our place on Sun-Teams as this is our only form of recovery outside of LumRest, which takes up and extra item slot. Due to Synthesis' unreliable healing output outside of Sun, the use of Synthesis is required in Sun in order to reap its full effects.

    The other moves are there for both flavor and Type-Move continuity. Covet, Block, and Knock Off very shady practices that are likely to have its victims begging to find out more. Giga Drain, Dark Pulse, Foul Play, and Seed Bomb are the generic moves that most every member of its respective type has. And finally, Snore is a move almost all non-insomnia pokemon have, while also playing off of the sin of sloth.


    8 VGMs

    TMs (open)
    TM:
    06- Toxic!
    10- Hidden Power!
    11- Sunny Day
    12- Taunt!
    15- Hyper Beam
    17- Protect!
    21- Frustration!
    22- Solarbeam
    27- Return*
    32- Double Team
    42- Facade!
    44- Rest!
    45- Attract
    48- Round
    53- Energy Ball!
    60- Quash
    66- Payback!
    67- Retaliate
    68- Giga Impact
    82- Dragon Tail!
    86- Grass Knot!
    87- Swagger
    89- U-Turn!
    90- Substitute!
    93- Wild Charge!
    95- Snarl

    In the TMs I have allowed Wild Charge, U-Turn, Payback, Taunt and Dragon Tail in conjunction with the other "required" moves.
    Wild Charge is a very safe coverage move to have on Malaconda as the only things that get hit harder by Wild Charge than by Power Whip would be Tentacruel and Gyarados. These two are fairly common on Rain teams and thus I feel it should be necessary to at least give them the option to hit them, especially Gyarados, who can easily use us for set-up fodder and easily sweep after two DD's. Wild Charge also lets us hit other Flying-Types, but, oh wait, the only used Flying-Types besides Gyarados are immune to electric.
    U-Turn took a long time for me to understand, however now, I can see its perfect spot in securing its place on Sun-Teams. U-Turn allows for us to keep the momentum on our side of the field, which is something that Sun needs to have at all times. I don't believe that MalaTrio would become broken as Heatran is not the counter to Malaconda that we have, literally every Steel-Type, Bug-Type, and Fire Type can threaten us with no problem whatsoever. It should also be a point to allow player skill to the equation as if you see Malaconda and Dugtrio in the team preview then it may not be the smartest play to blindly send in the obvious Heatran into Malaconda.
    Dragon Tail is mainly to prevent sweeps by having the option to phaze them. Dragon Tail also has disappointingly low BP as well as a bad coverage typing so it appears to be safe to put on. I have both U-Turn and Dragon Tail as they both accomplish different tactics as to the way we gain momentum. One stops set-up boosters while the other allows us to predict the switch and go to an appropriate counter.
    Taunt is another move that I included to stop people from using us as set-up fodder. Taunt doesn't compete cripple any of our counters.

    14 VGMs

    Egg Moves: (Field/Grass) (open)

    Endure
    Rapid Spin!
    Bide
    Punishment

    The egg moves, as are most, the place where many competitive moves go since they usually aren't very flavorful. However, this time, only Rapid Spin has found its way into the depths that are the egg moves. I decided to put on Rapid Spin so that Sun Teams will be able to free up a spot that may have been occupied by Donphan or Forretress otherwise. Bide is a representation of Greed, holding everything to yourself, while also being a useless move on Malaconda. Punishment seems fitting as us being a very sinful pokemon, after all what is more sinful than abuse? Endure is a gimmicky move especially since there is no Baton Pass that can be used with the use of Pinch Berries.

    The egg groups I chose are fairly straightforward. The Grass Egg Group comes from Malaconda's Grass typing which is where most every Grass type resides. The Field Group stems from the fact that nearly every serpentine pokemon is in the Field Group such as Arbok, Seviper, and Serperior. The Field Group also has access to Smeargle, meaning that Malaconda has access to every Egg Move with any other move which I feel is right as none of the egg moves are broken when in conjunction with each other.

    1 VGM

    Exclusions (open)
    I decided to not allow Baton Pass, Spikes, Ice Fang, and Glare/Stun Spore for one main reason. They do not have a specific purpose that contributes into us doing our job better.
    Baton Pass' only niche in regards to this concept would have been being able to keep momentum without breaking Heatran's balloons. However, since I have U-Turn the only use for Baton Pass would be to pass boosts, something I have been strictly against ever since the movepool stage started. Having the ability to pass +2 Speed with a Salac Berry and a Sub is NOT needed for this concept to do what it needs to do.
    Spikes is an incredibly goodstuff move that will be used on most any team, whether it be Sun or Rain, and be good. The fact that most of the things we want to threaten/counter are floating above the spikes anyways (Lati@s, Rotom-W, Thundurus-T, etc.) is more than enough reason to keep it off of the movepool as it doesn't even help us beat what we need to better.
    Ice Fang allows us to threaten things that we do not need to, or at least, not specified to threaten. It allows us to murder Landorus, Salamence, Garchomp, and even heavily dent Breloom despite its low BP. In my movepool, we already have moves that are able to keep these things out of our hair, albeit temporary, such as Dragon Tail and U-Turn. We dont need a permanent fix to a temporary problem when we have the right teammates to who can take these guys down better, without obscuring our focus.
    Paralysis is, like Spikes, a very goodstuff move that does not have a relevant use in compared to our purpose. People who say that Paralysis allow us to threaten the Latis better: We already do so by virtue of our STABs, Stats, and Movepool, so paralysis is highly unnecessary to the threatening of our targets; having Paralysis would only cause more problems by crippling Fires, Fightings, and Bugs.


    61 Moves/ 30 VGMs
  11. Base Speed

    Base Speed What a load of BS!
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2012
    Messages:
    155
    Will edit this to say it's a final sub later, but it's pretty much done. I just need to check through and make sure everything is correct and add some more reasoning

    VGMs marked with *
    Equivalents or repeats marked with =

    VGM Total: 33 (35 - 2 equivalents)
    Total moves: 60


    Level Up:
    Show Hide
    -Poison Fang
    -Ice Fang*
    6: Leer
    8: Vine Whip
    10: Wrap
    13: Haze*
    16: Scary Face
    19: Razor Leaf
    23: Screech
    28: Glare*
    32: Pursuit*
    36: Captivate
    39: Memento*
    43: Crunch*
    46: Spite
    49: Punishment
    54: Power Whip*
    58: Grudge
    62: Foul Play
    67: Dark Pulse*
    72: Sucker Punch*

    VGMs: 8
    Total Moves: 21



    TMs:
    Show Hide

    06: Toxic*
    10: Hidden Power*
    12: Taunt*
    15: Hyper Beam
    17: Protect*
    21: Frustration=
    22: Solarbeam
    27: Return*
    30: Shadow Ball*
    41: Torment
    42: Facade*
    44: Rest*
    53: Energy Ball*
    68: Giga Impact
    82: Dragon Tail*
    86: Grass Knot*
    89: U-Turn*
    90: Substitute*
    94: Rock Smash
    95: Snarl
    HM01: Cut
    HM04: Strength

    VGMs: 13 (14 - 1 Equivalent)
    Total Moves: 23



    Move Tutors:
    Show Hide

    Covet
    Dark Pulse=
    Foul Play*
    Giga Drain*
    Knock Off*
    Seed Bomb=
    Sleep Talk*
    Spite
    Synthesis*

    Total Tutor Moves: 9
    Total VGMs: 5 (7 - 1 repeats - 1 equivalent)



    Egg Moves:
    Show Hide
    Poison Tail
    Night Slash*
    Leaf Blade*
    Rapid Spin*
    Knock Off=
    Spikes*
    Constrict
    Pin Missile
    Slam
    Wood Hammer*
    Synthesis=

    VGMs: 4 (6 - 2 repeats)
    Total Moves: 11



    Raw List:
    Show Hide

    Bite
    Captivate
    Constrict
    Crunch*
    Cut
    Dark Pulse*
    Dragon Tail*
    Encore*
    Facade*
    Foul Play*
    Frustration=
    Giga Drain*
    Giga Impact
    Glare*
    Grass Knot*
    Grudge
    Haze*
    Hidden Power*
    Hyper Beam
    Ice Fang*
    Knock Off*
    Leaf Blade*
    Leer
    Memento*
    Night Slash*
    Payback*
    Pin Missile
    Poison Fang
    Poison Tail
    Power Whip*
    Protect*
    Punishment
    Pursuit*
    Rapid Spin*
    Razor Leaf
    Rest*
    Return*
    Rock Smash
    Scary Face
    Screech
    Seed Bomb=
    Shadow Ball*
    Slam
    Sleep Talk*
    Snarl
    Solarbeam
    Spikes*
    Spite
    Strength
    Substitute*
    Sucker Punch*
    Sunny Day
    Synthesis*
    Taunt*
    Torment
    Toxic*
    U-turn*
    Vine Whip
    Wood Hammer*
    Wrap


    So let's get some reasoning then:

    Key Inclusions and Exclusions

    -Ice Fang is on this movepool as insurance against physical dragons that would otherwise try setting up on us. It's a huge blow to the concept if these guys increase in usage.

    -Lots of grass and dark moves. Includes high power moves like Wood Hammer. Allows us to hit stuff hard and provides good variety without skewing our counters

    -Electric and steel coverage. There's only a handful of pokemon these were ever meant to threaten and it's not worth wasting VGMs on them. The space saved can go towards more concept specific or more flavourful moves.

    -Dragon Tail and Whirlwind/Roar. You'll be hearing this a lot throughout my explanations, but again this insurance against pokemon that would seek to set up on Malaconda. That it hits dragons super effectively is an added bonus. Whirlwind and Roar have small niches where they perform better than Dragon Tail but I deemed this an unnecessary use of a VGM.
    -Nasty PlotDespite being good flavour, Nasty Plot is kept out because we should not be encouraging special attacking at all. Why risk people using it?


    -Baton Pass (see U-turn in Key Moves)



    No illegal move combos:

    Not particularly unique to my movepool, but thanks to being in the field egg group with Smeargle, there are no illegal combos for egg moves. Personally I've never liked these and I think they're at best confusing and unnecessary and at worst a cheap way to stop CAPs running certain sets. No such issues here - you get total freedom with this movepool.

    Super-Snakey Flavour

    -Lots of Snakey-Flavour moves, such as Wrap, Poison Fang, Bite and Glare. Takes inspiration from Seviper and Arbok movepools and tries to include moves which they both have, such as Screech.
    -Cruel, deceitful moves to fit our biblical theme. Spite, Captivate, Grudge, Mememto, Taunt, Torment etc.
    -I've put moves that seem to suit Malaconda slightly less as egg moves (eg Rapid Spin and Wood Hammer) and those that seem more natural are level up moves

    Summary

    -Not much coverage. Outside of STABs, Malaconda is getting normal, poison and ice. Ice will help against dragons but there is no way to hit steels, hopefully encouraging pairing with sun pokemon
    -No priority outside of Sucker Punch. When we decided to have dark as our typing it was because there were threats that were weak to it that we wanted to target specifically. Any priority other than Sucker Punch would skew that.
    -Many options to avoid being set-up bait, providing an unpredictability that means your opponent can never feel 100% safe about boosting in front of you. Prevents Dragon Dancers running rampant and thus helps the concept.
  12. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight A Knight for the Aegis
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,528
    * VGM
    = Equivalent / Outclassed
    ! Repeat

    Final Submission:

    Level-Up (open)

    - Ice Fang*
    - Follow Me
    - Quick Attack
    - Leer
    - Vine Whip
    05 Vine Whip!
    11 Captivate
    11 Flatter
    15 Bite
    21 Glare*
    25 Pursuit*
    28 Rapid Spin*
    33 Leaf Blade*
    39 Crunch*
    47 Sucker Punch*
    53 Foul Play*
    61 Swagger
    67 Punishment
    75 Power Whip*

    Moves = 18
    VGM = 9


    Malaconda's Level-up is based around its nature to deceive an opponent and then punish them, eschewing more common snake strategies like coiling and wrapping foes for something more akin to an ambush predator. It starts its life by luring foes in with Follow Me, then strikes them down with Quick Attack. As it learns and grows its deceptive ability increases with Captivate and Flatter, it becomes more effective at stunning its prey with Glare and trailing weakened foes with Pursuit. It learns to wriggle out of its own tough situations by learning how to Rapid Spin. It's ambush skills reach their height with Sucker Punch and Foul Play. It becomes quite arrogant at this point, not just content with Flattering foes as it has done for so long, but enticing them to rage with Swagger! Which is all well and good, because Malaconda gets its last laugh with Punishment, capping off its long history of deception and ambush tactics with a move that strikes foes down during their incoherent rage, only changing its strategy when Foul Play might be the superior option on particularly brutish foes.

    Egg (open)
    Egg: Grass / Field
    Aromatherapy*
    Beat Up
    Charm
    Iron Tail
    Leaf Storm*
    Razor Leaf
    Snatch
    Sweet Scent
    Wrap

    Moves = 9
    VGM = 2


    Malaconda's Egg moves emphasize a few more grass-type skills than those it is naturally inclined to, as well as enticement moves like Aromatherapy, Charm, and Sweet Scent that comport less with its more deceptive preferred methods for luring in foes. Breeding is the only way Malaconda feels comfortable wrapping foes, it has no natural inclination towards it, preferring strike tactics.

    Tutors (open)
    Tutors:
    Dark Pulse*
    Foul Play*!
    Giga Drain*
    Icy Wind
    Iron Tail!
    Knock Off*
    Recycle
    Seed Bomb*=
    Sleep Talk*
    Snatch!
    Snore
    Spite
    Synthesis*

    Moves = 10 (13 - 3 Repeat)
    VGM: = 5 (7 - 2 Repeat/EO)


    Malaconda has an undercurrent of Ice flavor to its movepool to represent its personality. The deepest levels of enmity are not an unquenchable inferno but a frosty abyss, and Ice Fang in the L0 movepool along with Icy Wind here and Hail below represent that. Trick is a further indication of Malaconda's deception, while Recycle allows it to regrow its apple if it needs to detach it to make a quick escape.

    TM/HM (open)
    TM/HM:
    06 Toxic*
    07 Hail
    10 Hidden Power*
    11 Sunny Day
    12 Taunt*
    15 Hyper Beam
    17 Protect*
    21 Frustration*
    22 SolarBeam
    27 Return*=
    32 Double Team
    41 Torment
    42 Façade*
    44 Rest*
    45 Attract
    46 Thief
    48 Round
    53 Energy Ball*
    66 Payback*
    68 Giga Impact
    70 Flash
    82 Dragon Tail*
    86 Grass Knot*
    87 Swagger!
    89 U-turn*
    90 Substitute*
    94 Rock Smash
    H1 Cut
    H4 Strength

    Moves = 28 (29 -1 Repeat)
    VGM = 13 (14 - 1 Repeat/EO)


    Malaconda's TM/HM Movepool notable inclusions are U-turn and Dragon Tail, it is otherwise mostly boilerplate moves and basic flavor, though with a 65 limit I did have to excise some canon flavor for my other preferences elsewhere.

    Move / VGM Summary:
    Moves: 18 + 9 + 10 + 28 = 65
    VGM: 9 + 2 + 5 + 13 = 29

    VGM Summary (open)

    Physical AM:
    Crunch
    Dragon Tail
    Facade
    Foul Play
    Frustration/Return
    Ice Fang
    Leaf Blade/Seed Bomb
    Payback
    Power Whip
    Pursuit
    Sucker Punch
    U-turn

    Special AM:
    Dark Pulse
    Energy Ball
    Giga Drain
    Grass Knot
    Hidden Power
    Leaf Storm

    NAM:
    Aromatherapy
    Glare
    Knock Off
    Protect
    Rapid Spin
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Substitute
    Synthesis
    Taunt
    Toxic


    Competitive Summary:

    Basically I had an idea for a very flavorful movepool that stuck to the most core competitive elements that sun needs.

    Inclusions:
    • The movepool has broad Grass / Dark coverage including every competitive Dark STAB you can think of and Power Whip/Leaf Blade for Power vs. Accuracy.
    • Ice Fang (and Icy Wind to a lesser extent for its speed-lowering properties) prevents Malaconda from being setup fodder. It does this in a different way from Glare below by working with Malaconda's STABs as an additional threat, or with support moves like Rapid Spin and Dragon Tail to make a fascimile of Donphan's Rapid Spinning set, replacing physical dragons with Special-based ones - though still threatening 4x weaknesses.
    • Glare: Paralysis cripples Latis and impedes some Sand-threats, but not nearly to the extent it does a number of offensive Dragon-types. Paralysis does little to nothing to most Steel-type defensive threats, which we want the rest of the team to counter. Glare and Ice Fang only overlap to the extent they allow Ice Fang to cover Latis by offering up both paralysis and flinch at the same time to let Malaconda overcome Recover, giving it room for Grass STAB and a healing move to allow it to do its primary job of threatening Rain.
    • Rapid Spin: Can replace Forretress or Donphan while being an exemplary rain pivot, something those two Pokemon really cannot do well.
    • U-turn: This along with Rapid Spin allow it to replicate the utility of Forretress.
    • Dragon Tail: This along with Rapid Spin (and Ice Fang to an extent) allow it to replicate the utility of Donphan.
    • Synthesis: Sun-based healing to encourage use on Sun teams.
    • Aromatherapy: Can cleric for allies that get afflicted with status, a useful trait given its own general status immunity if given Lum Berry. Sun teams really do not like paralysis messing with their sweepers, Aromatherapy on something that can deal with Rain is therefore very useful.

    Exclusions:
    • Baton Pass: Baton Pass is majorly distracting simply by making the possibility of pinch berries and snuck-in weak stat-boosters a problem. I don't have any of the latter, but as they may be on other pools I heavily caution against them. I also consider it entirely inferior to U-turn, which can be used in a manner like Forretress' Volt Switch to scout for threats and remove Balloons where applicable. U-turn lets Malaconda replace Forretress, Baton Pass doesn't replace anything on a sun team.
    • Spikes: Competitively I think Spikes is too generically useful, and since Malaconda would be the first Spiker with truly magnificent special bulk and reliable recovery (aside from Deoxys-D - which is in the playtest but is conveniently weak to Malaconda's STAB), it would find a place on many different teams.
    • Encore: I actually have a pretty big beef with Encore in that Malaconda's bulk makes it quite possible to eat a multitude of attacks and Encore them. It might be slow, but as I believe paralysis is helpful to the concept, combining Encore with it would make that factor less relevant than it otherwise would be. The best Encore users are bulky with good resistances that can outspeed a few key Pokemon. That describes Malaconda perfectly, and I think Encore would be too generically useful given the kinds of attacks Malaconda lures - the one's not named U-turn, of course.
    • Electric Coverage: I considered it largely superfluous - the few things it does cover are better dealt with by Glare, which ruins either their capacity to sweep (Gyarados) or a great deal of their utility (Tentacruel). With a limited movepool, Electric coverage was something I couldn't make room for.
  13. Cretacerus

    Cretacerus

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2012
    Messages:
    129
    B - VGMs
    * - repeated/equivalent/outclassed VGM

    Level-Up (open)

    18 moves, 5 VGMs

    ---- Nasty Plot*
    ---- Ancient Power
    ---- Worry Seed
    01 Wrap
    01 Dragon Rage
    06 Sweet Scent
    11 Vine Whip
    16 Bite
    21 Pin Missile
    26 DragonBreath
    31 GrassWhistle
    36 Magical Leaf
    41 Faint Attack
    46 Spikes
    51 Dragon Rush
    56 Confuse Ray
    61 Power Whip
    66 Foul Play


    Egg Moves (Dragon/Field) (open)

    10 moves, 8 VGMs

    Aromatherapy
    Crunch
    Glare
    Leaf Blade
    Poison Tail
    Punishment
    Pursuit
    Rapid Spin
    Sucker Punch
    Tail Glow


    TMs (open)

    27 moves, 14 VGMs

    05- Roar
    06- Toxic
    10- Hidden Power
    11- Sunny Day
    12- Taunt
    15- Hyper Beam
    17- Protect
    21- Frustration
    22- Solarbeam
    27- Return*
    32- Double Team
    41- Torment
    42- Facade
    44- Rest
    45- Attract
    46- Thief
    48- Round
    53- Energy Ball
    66- Payback
    67- Retaliate
    68- Giga Impact
    70- Flash
    82- Dragon Tail
    86- Grass Knot
    87- Swagger
    89- U-Turn
    90- Substitute


    Tutor Moves (open)

    12 moves, 6 VGMs

    Bind
    Covet
    Dark Pulse
    Foul Play*
    Giga Drain
    Knock Off
    Seed Bomb
    Sleep Talk
    Snatch
    Snore
    Synthesis
    Worry Seed


    65 moves
    33 VGMs

    I will comment this in detail next weekend when I have time :)
  14. nyttyn

    nyttyn Blink Blink
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    925
    Final Submission

    53 Moves Total
    28 VGMs
    Egg Groups: Grass/Field

    Level Up (open)
    1 - Bite
    5 - Wrap
    8 - Sweet Scent
    11 - Pursuit
    14 - Taunt
    17 - Crunch
    20 - Spikes
    23 - Bullet Seed
    26 - Foul Play
    29 - Flatter
    32 - Snatch
    35 - Leaf Storm
    38 - Punishment
    41 - Power Whip

    Egg Moves (open)

    Beat Up
    Captivate
    Dragon Tail
    Follow Me
    Mimic
    Moonlight
    Sucker Punch
    Wring Out


    Tutor (open)

    Dark Pulse
    Foul Play
    Giga Drain
    Iron Tail
    Knock Off
    Snatch
    Seed Bomb
    Sleep Talk
    Snore
    Spite
    Worry Seed


    TMs (open)

    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM21 Frustration
    TM22 SolarBeam
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM40 Aerial Ace
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM53 Energy Ball
    TM56 Fling
    TM66 Payback
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash
    TM85 Dream Eater
    TM86 Grass Knot
    TM87 Swagger
    TM89 U-turn
    TM90 Substitute
    TM95 Snarl


    VGMs (open)

    Bullet Seed
    Crunch
    Dark Pulse
    Energy Ball
    Facade
    Frustration = Return
    Giga Drain
    Grass Knot
    Hidden Power
    Iron Tail
    Leaf Storm
    Moonlight
    Rest
    Roar
    Power Whip
    Pursuit
    Spikes
    Seed Bomb
    Sleep Talk
    Sucker Punch
    Substitute
    Taunt
    Torment
    Toxic
    Protect
    Payback
    U-turn
    Foul Play

    Non VGMs (open)

    Aerial Ace
    Beat Up
    Bite
    Captivate
    Double Team
    Dream Eater
    Flash
    Flatter
    Fling
    Follow Me
    Giga Impact
    Hyper Beam
    Knock Off
    Return
    Round
    Snarl
    Snatch
    Snore
    SolarBeam
    Spite
    Sunny Day
    Swagger
    Sweet Scent
    Thief
    Wrap
    Wring Out


    Reasoning (open)

    My vision of Malaconda is a bulky spike-setting pivot who uses U-turn to keep up the momentum and a combination of grass and dark STABs to eliminate key threats to Sun, as well as soak up Draco Meteors and water-based attacks. Pretty much the same thing everyone else is thinking, but sans rapid spin and glare.

    Flavor is mostly just standard Dark, Grass, and Snake moves, with an emphasis on minimalism. Malaconda does not need a fully capped out movepool to convey flavor, in my opinion - doing so would be bloat for the sake of bloat. Level Up list is basically just a new move every 3 levels, gradually ascending in power. 3 just feels like a right number to me.

    No Rapid Spin even though it's a powerful option because Rapid Spin will be used by every team, thus making our vision of Malaconda as a "sun supporter" completely worthless, as well as making it extremely probable that it will fail at its concept. Spikes is more likely to be used on only sun teams, furthering the chances of concept success even if it won't work on every sun team and even if it isn't the "omfgbest" fit for sun teams. Even if it doesn't make Malaconda the best possible Sun pivot, the concept is more important.

    Ice Fang is just random-ass coverage Malaconda doesn't really need and has no right to use. Ditto Thunder Fang.

    Glare + friends gives it options against its counters that it really doesn't need. No, it does not need Glare because "Snake, hiss," get that stupid reasoning out of my movepool.

    U-Turn actually does damage, unlike Baton Pass, doesn't get shut down by taunt (which is a minor issue but w/e), and prevents it from passing stat boosts. Also prevents it from passing meaty subs, but I don't really see that as an issue given how quickly substitutes are broken nowadays.

    Moonlight represents an interesting option for Sun teams, plus I like the idea of Malaconda soaking in the moonlight (like Umbreon) more then it synthesizing. How the hell is it going to synthesize? It's a Snake, even with the grass bits one would assume it wouldn't be capable of photosynthesis.

    Wood Hammer is not included because why the fuck are we making a bulky pivot kill itself. Extremely counter-productive.

    Notable Exclusions: Ice Fang, Baton Pass, Glare/Paralysis, Rapid Spin, Wood Hammer.
  15. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    882
    I don't really intend to work on this more, so...

    Final Submission

    Level Up moves (open)

    - Wrap
    - Leer
    5 Pursuit *
    9 Vine Whip
    13 Follow Me
    17 Bite
    21 Glare *
    25 Slam
    29 Encore *
    33 Leaf Blade *
    37 Super Fang *
    41 Crunch *
    45 Captivate
    49 Wring Out
    53 Power Whip *

    15 moves, 7 VGMs

    The level-up moves are fairly straightforward, emphasizing its Grass/Dark typing with powerful STAB moves, its snake heritage with moves such as Wrap, Glare, Slam, and Wring Out (the latter of which seems like a great finisher for an anaconda), and its lore with enticing moves such as Swagger and Captivate. The leveling closely matches Seviper's, which I thought was a good baseline for a Pokémon with a relatively low BST (lowest in CAP!)


    TM moves (open)
    Roar *
    Toxic *
    Hidden Power *
    Sunny Day
    Taunt *
    Hyper Beam
    Protect *
    Frustration *
    SolarBeam
    Return */
    Double Team
    Torment
    Facade *
    Rest *
    Attract
    Thief
    Round
    Energy Ball *
    False Swipe
    Payback *
    Giga Impact
    Dragon Tail *

    Grass Knot *
    U-turn *
    Swagger
    Substitute *
    Wild Charge *
    Cut

    28 moves, 16 VGMs (1 clone)

    There's not much room for flavour on the TMs list, but all of the basic options are there, including common support moves, special STAB attacks, and a few special moves such as False Swipe.


    Tutor moves (open)
    After You
    Bind
    Dark Pulse *
    Foul Play *

    Giga Drain *
    Last Resort
    Recycle
    Seed Bomb */
    Sleep Talk *
    Snatch
    Snore
    Super Fang *=
    Synthesis *
    Worry Seed

    14 moves, 7 VGMs (1 repeat, 1 outclassed)

    The tutor moves help to reinforce some flavour aspects, such as Recycle relating to the apple, and After You and Last Resort being fairly "tricky" moves. There's also more of the obligatory special STAB moves that make Malaconda comparable to other similar Pokémon.


    Egg moves (open)
    Egg Groups: Field / Grass

    Body Slam *
    Nasty Plot *
    Rapid Spin *
    Scary Face
    Spikes *
    Spit Up
    Stockpile *
    Sucker Punch *
    Swallow
    Wring Out =

    10 moves (1 repeat), 6 VGMs

    The egg moves have a lot going on, and basically fall into two groups: the snake-based moves, and the other moves. Body Slam, Wring Out, and the Stockpile set are all commonly seen as egg moves on snake-based Pokémon and so are included here, while Rapid Spin, Spikes, and Sucker Punch are some of the better supporting options. As Malaconda will almost always be running at least two STAB attacks, a Spikes + Rapid Spin set would eschew recovery and rely on Sitrus berry, which I reckon is fair enough as a balancing measure. Follow Me is the perfect flavour move for this Pokemon and is included for obvious reasons.


    Total: 65 moves, 33 VGMs

    Notable inclusions: Encore, Glare, Synthesis, Super Fang, U-turn, Roar/Dragon Tail, Rapid Spin, Spikes, Taunt, Torment
    Notable exclusions: Aromatherapy/Heal Bell, Baton Pass, Confuse Ray, Destiny Bond, Fangs, Healing Wish, Knock Off, Memento, Volt Switch

    I felt that Baton Pass and Volt Switch were largely unnecessary due to U-turn's superiority,especially with Baton Pass' potential for abuse, and Volt Switch's potential to be blocked easily. Destiny Bond, Healing Wish, and Memento didn't appeal to me; as Malaconda is designed to be a bulky pivot for Sun teams, it seems odd to impose a sacrificial role onto it, as most Sun teams will try and keep it as long as possible. I'd have liked to include Aromatherapy and Knock Off, but they were niche moves and I felt that the other VGMs I picked were more important/useful overall. Finally, Ice Fang didn't seem necessary, given that Malaconda has more than enough wiles to get past its targets, without the risk of needlessly strengthening Choice sets.

    Meanwhile, I've included a large array of other support moves to make Malaconda as versatile as possible for its use on Sun teams. Encore and Taunt give Malaconda opportunities to seize momentum from defensive-switchins that it can't threaten directly with its attacks, and provide defensive utility without letting it get past its threats. Notably, Malaconda is not fast enough to Encore things like Breloom into Swords Dance, ensuring that the moves only see use in preventing defensive Pokémon from setting up on Sun teams. Synthesis provides non-Lum Rest sets with reliable healing in Sunlight, letting Malaconda run other sets more effectively while tying Malaconda further towards Sun teams.

    As Malaconda will only usually run one of these options at a time, I don't think there's too much potential for it to be broken with this wide array of support moves. Bear in mind that most common Sun-spinners also provide the entirety of the team's hazard support, so I think giving Malaconda Spikes is necessary for it to be a suitable replacement. Malaconda won't be able to break through its counters with Super Fang, which makes it the most balanced coverage move in my opinion, while Wild Charge gives Malaconda the extra edge against Gyarados, a common Rain threat that can potentially get past Malaconda with its Bulky DD set
  16. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    912
    Erisia your movepool is my favorite so far, but there are two technical issues. Body Slam counts as a VGM and according to move-to-move guidelines onsite, all Pokemon that learn Crunch are required to learn Roar. If you need to get rid of a VGM, I would suggest Leaf Blade since it is only marginally stronger than Seed Bomb. Other than that, it looks very good :>

    BUT WHERE THE FUCK IS SHADOW BALL
  17. srk1214

    srk1214 That ain't Hoopa!
    is a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,070
    Move-Move requirements are sometimes out of date or just not entirely accurate. For example, the elemental monkeys of Unova learn Crunch but not Roar. Same with Basculin. Also Carracosta. And Durant. That's enough exceptions for me to not worry about including Roar in my movepool. Check your sources before blindly trusting anything you see written, even if it's from our glorious Smogon home.


    EDIT: I mean Snakes don't really roar... that's another good reason.
  18. Psylink

    Psylink

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    256
    Malaconda learns Wood Hammer from Egg, and you guys didn't want that move. Just sayin.
  19. Unoriginal Name

    Unoriginal Name

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Messages:
    632
    ...Actually, Wood Hammer is Allowed. Also, not all submissions use the same egg groups.

    Anyway, I was going to post mine, but it's almost identical to Deck Knight's (although, looking over it, Deck's might be a little better in hindsight, imo).
  20. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,553
    Encore, Whirwind, and Baton Pass are in none of those submissions, with the exception of Nyktos's submission that has Encore. Is there any particular reason or it was a coincidence?
  21. nyttyn

    nyttyn Blink Blink
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    925
    For Encore and Baton Pass, it's because none of the submitters like the moves, I would assume.

    As for Whirlwind...It's because Roar makes a lot more sense. They are almost the same move anyway - the only thing Whirlwind has over Roar is that soundproof doesn't block it, and I really doubt that extremely minor point outweighs flavor.
  22. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    882
    I've included Encore in my submission too, figured it had more flavour and use than Aromatherapy.
  23. Basileus

    Basileus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    279
    Final Submission

    Total moves: 64
    VGMs: 32

    TM/HM (open)
    TM/HM(26/14)
    tm06-Toxic

    tm10-Hidden Power
    tm11-Sunny Day
    tm12-Taunt

    tm17-Protect
    tm21-Frustration*
    th22-Solar Beam
    tm27-Return
    tm32-Double Team
    tm41-Torment
    tm42-Facade
    tm44-Rest

    tm45-Attract
    tm46-Theif
    tm48-Round
    tm53-Energy Ball
    tm56-Fling
    tm63-Embargo
    tm66-Payback
    tm68-Giga Impact
    tm82-Dragon Tail
    tm86-Grass Knot
    tm87-Swagger
    tm89-U-turn
    tm90-Substitute
    hm04-Strength
    *Frustration and return count as 1 VGM total

    Justifications: Malaconda's ability to learn technical machines increases his viability everywhere in general. By adding several VGMs to Malaconda he becomes a great stall on any sun team. With moves such as taunt, toxic, substitute, protect, U-turn, Torment, you name it, he will fear no switch in. He can also now Toxic stall most any specially offensive opponent that comes his way. With Taunt and Torment he can also severly restrict Pokemon from using several moves making it hard to set up. He can also abuse a harvested Sitrus berry and almost never run out of health, constantly regaining any health lost by substitute if played correctly. U-turn and Dragon tail also find their own little niche on Mal, enabling him to keep momentum with U-turn, and destroy an opponents momentum with dragon tail. With all these TMs Malaconda will become a great defensive pivot, stalling out many specially offensive Pokemon while still being able to maintain momentum if faced with an offensive sweeper. That isn't it though! Rest, combined with a few move tutor moves (see below) will allow him to Sweep while he Sleeps.

    Flavor
    : Obvious stall moves come from the orientation that Malaconda is like the serpent from genesis. Thief, Torment, Taunt, embargo, Payback, Toxic, heck even Fustration are all really nasty things humans can do to one another. The serpent that tricks Eve gets some sort of thrill from preforming these actions. Naturally, so will CAP5. Other than that Sunny Day and Solarbeam come from Mal's obvious connections to sun teams and Dragon tail fits the whole snake thing too.


    move tutor (open)
    Move tutor (14/7)
    Seed Bomb*
    Foul Play
    Dark Pulse
    Iron Tail
    Giga Drain
    Synthesis
    Snore
    Bind
    Knock Off
    Worry Seed
    Recycle
    Sleep Talk
    Spite
    Block*
    *on the list of outclassed moves

    General: Mostly for covering the basics. These moves generally come from Malaconda's lists of type-move, move-move, and ability-move requirements. Also includes notably powerful STAB moves ans sleep related moves that help Mal stay awake even with his eyes closed.

    Justifications
    : With notably powerful stabs like Seed Bomb and Foul Play, Malaconda can't and won't be overlooked in OU. His ability to simply "sleep off" his wounds while still being able to attack makes him a risky sweeper that relies a lot on chance. I do not advise it, but for those who want to roll the dice and test there luck with Malaconda on sun teams will be able to with tutored moves and Rest. For those that do not want to risk it though, Malaconda still has several other sets, and Foul Play gives Malaconda a way to deal with offensive 'mons that threaten him regardless. Not to mention how this ties perfectly with his flavor (see below)

    Flavor
    : The emphasis on such moves as spite, Dark Pulse, and Foul Play help to bring out Mal's evil/sinister side. Bind is pretty obvious, as he is a snake. As for all the sleep oriented moves, most Pokemon sleep, but very few can make their opponents rage quit by doing so. It seems like this devilish little snake enjoys to just piss people off, and by blocking them, healing all the time, and snoring obnoxiously loudly he really will be a huge pain competitively and in a realistic setting. He even enjoys benefiting from everyone's hard earned HP with Giga drain! When it comes to other flavor-based moves; Recycle goes along with his ability sort of like a gag move that has little purpose and even less on Mal and Bind is essentially just wrap with a different name.


    level up (open)
    Level Up (16/7)
    -- Astonish
    -- Leer
    -- Wrap
    -- Swift
    -- Pursuit
    5 Vine Whip
    9 Bite
    12 Scary Face
    16 Fake Out
    21 Crunch

    27 Punishment
    33 Mean Look
    36 Sucker Punch
    42 Poison Tail
    49 Double Edge
    53 Glare
    60 Power Whip


    General: Brings out Malaconda's unique physical traits as a Pokemon, including several moves involving his fangs, sinister looking eyes, and use of his tail. Also involves an important stab moves, and a recoil move that helps Malaconda bring out his potential in physical offense.

    Justifications
    : Ok, so maybe you don't want to use CAP5 as a sun team stall, maybe you feel like Ferrothorn is better, whatever, the point is that it doesn't matter. Malaconda's sake-like moves allow him to become a physical threat too. Using his "sinister eyes" he traps opponents with mean look, paralyzes and decreases speed with glare, and then decreases even more speed with scary face. Using his eyes he gains an advantage over his opponents. Using his tail and body, he gains powerful stab power whip, a poison move, and a strong normal move that, again, allows for him to abuse Harvest. Then Mal uses his fangs and ability to be...evil(?) to take out several threats (including latios/latias) with his Dark type STAB. Most notably Sucker Punch, which gives Mal a priority edge against most of his unprepared opponents. A little flavor-flave never hurt anyone, did it? Malaconda uses his to become heighten his offensives and cripple his opponents. (Not too shabby.) And Sun Teams can still benefit from an offensive set on Mal with his decent coverage moves. As for the Flavor, it was mostly covered in justifications.


    egg moves (open)

    Monster/Dragon egg group (8/4)
    Leaf Blade
    (Sceptile, Grovile, and Tropius)
    Ice Fang (Arbok, Feraligator, Gyarados and Hydregieon)
    Captivate (Milotic)
    Poison Fang (Seviper and Arbok)
    Sucker Punch(R!) (Does not matter, He learns this through level up so it is compatible with everything)
    Beat Up(Charizard and Arbok)
    Thunder Fang (Arbok, Salamance, Hydregion, and Druddigon)
    Rapid Spin (Bastoise)
    Wring Out (Seviper, and Meganium)
    Attract(R!) (Doesn't matter, as it is also a TM)

    Underline= Learn through chain breeding

    Illegal combos
    :
    Leaf blade+Ice Fang/Captivate/Poison Fang/Beat up/Thunder Fang/Rapid Spin/Wring out
    Ice Fang+Captivate/Rapid Spin/Wring Out
    Captivate+Poison Fang/Beat Up/Thunder Fang/Rapid Spin
    Poison Fang+Beat Up/Rapid Spin
    Beat Up+Rapid Spin/Wring Out
    Thunder Fang+Rapid Spin
    Rapid Spin+Wring Out
    All other combos are legal


    Egg Group Justification/flavor: Ok, So I wanted to do Dragon/Field, it was very flavor-oriented, but I just felt like the field egg group was too uhm, how do I say this, nonrestrictive? I mean Field group makes almost every single move compatible and that is just kinda rediculous. The reason I didn't do grass/dragon though is because if I did that then rapid spin could not be an egg move, and I just need it to be an egg move. Besides, Sceptile is in monster/dragon and Mal is a reptile like Sceptile so I guess it kinda works out. Still pretty flavor oriented, allows me to keep rapid spin, but is also not super ridiculous by allowing almost all move combos to be legal. I think that monster/dragon is a great egg group for CAP5. (Plus if you ask me, I would say that he kinda does look like a monster that would hide in your closet or something)

    Justifications
    : Well besides clever foul play STAB, Malaconda has to protect himself somehow against the unexpected. With six weaknesses he has a lot of counters. A glare alone isn't going to just completely destroy his counters, they could be running all sorts of things like lum or scarf that will make Malaconda even after paralyzing still have a disadvantage in speed, but using his fangs and a little flavor magic Mal can still have one last laugh before going down. His death isn't in vein, and an Ice fang or thunder fang is Malaconda's last laugh against counters that try to OHKO only to now face the rest of the game at merely half the health they started with. This makes malaconda hard to switch into, but not impossible. Multiscale helps, and accuracy hax makes Malaconda still easily beatable, but also, nothing to be taken lightly.



    Brief summary (open)

    32 VGMs
    64 Moves Total

    TMs/HMs

    tm06-Toxic
    tm10-Hidden Power
    tm11-Sunny Day
    tm12-Taunt
    tm17-Protect
    tm21-Frustration
    tm22-Solar Beam
    tm27-Return
    tm32-Double Team
    tm41-Torment
    tm42-Facade
    tm44-Rest
    tm45-Attract
    tm46-Theif
    tm48-Round
    tm53-Energy Ball
    tm56-Fling
    tm63-Embargo
    tm66-Payback
    tm68-Giga Impact
    tm82-Dragon Tail
    tm86-Grass Knot
    tm87-Swagger
    tm89-U-turn
    tm90-Substitute
    hm04-Strength

    Tutors
    Seed Bomb
    Foul Play
    Dark Pulse
    Iron Tail
    Giga Drain
    Synthesis
    Snore
    Bind
    Knock Off
    Worry Seed
    Recycle
    Sleep Talk
    Spite
    Block

    Level Up
    -- Astonish
    -- Leer
    -- Wrap
    -- Swift
    -- Pursuit
    5 Vine Whip
    9 Bite
    12 Scary Face
    16 Fake Out
    21 Crunch
    27 Punishment
    33 Mean Look
    36 Sucker Punch
    42 Poison Tail
    49 Double Edge
    53 Glare
    60 Power Whip

    Egg Moves

    Leaf Blade
    Ice Fang
    Captivate
    Poison Fang
    Sucker Punch
    Beat Up
    Thunder Fang
    Rapid Spin
    Wring Out
    Attract

    This final move set allows for Malaconda to choose between being offensive and defensive all while giving him several moves that support sun, making CAP5 an easy and viable addition to any sun team. He will work well with several other Pokemon and be a force to reckon with. HOWEVER, to ease the concerns of all of you, several Pokemon still counter Mal such as Heatran, several offensive dragons, and Scizor who with proper planning can easily take him out. Malaconda has a few moves that allow him to kind of get a last laugh at his counters, but most of his counters won't mind a 90% chance of glare cutting speed. The real place for Malaconda to...shine, is sun teams, where the hope is that with this moveset, Malaconda will be able to make Sun Vs. Rain a battle more centered around skill. Along the way though he can be a great staller and/or defensive pivot for a multitude of teams. Mal will of fulfilled his purpose as a type equalizer, AND a defensive sun pivot. As for flavor, Mal uses various moves to just plain annoy people and preforms several actions like taunting and paralyzing that are deemed immoral by the bible are the some of the many things Mal gets his best moves from. I really wanted to make it look like Mal was a representation of someone who by biblical terms would be seen as "wicked." And of course, several moves are based off of his physical appearance like Ice Fang, Dragon Tail, Crunch, and Bind which all contribute more to the flavor.


    Notable inclusions (open)


    Dragon Tail+U-turn: Both have to deal with momentum, but fulfill two completely different roles. Dragon Tail is great against breaking momentum on your opponents side all while breaking balloons and such while U-turn allows Mal to avoid difficult situations and keep your own teams momentum. I grouped theses two together because Cape asked why these two moves were different. They are both extremely important, and I would advise at least one of the two to be on most Malaconda defensive sets.

    Ice Fang+Glare: I really don't know why cape thinks these two are so similar. (no offense Cape you are doing a good job). Ice Fang Is used to cover several Pokemon with double-weakness that makes Malaconda a tough Pokemon to switch into depending on how good you are at predicting and how good your opponent is at switching in. Ice Fang is really just for the coverage, just in case you come up against that Tornadus-T on rain, or want to break Dragonites multiscale without fake out, or even want to do some damage to latios/latias when they aren't attacking (i.e. avoiding sucker punch by setting up) then you might want Ice fang as a bit of extra protection. Meanwhile, Glare is where Mal's sun help really kicks in. With so many slow mon's and very few paralyzers/speed boosters that appear regularly on sun, Paralysis can actually be a wonderful thing. Not just for trolling someone unlucky enough to switch in to it, but also for breaking down your opponents speed and maybe even avoiding a few attacks if hax kicks in. Two wonderful moves that are both very pro-concept and make Mal downright scary to switch into.

    Rapid Spin: Come on guys, do I have to explain this? Rapid spin on a Pokemon as slow as Mal isn't the most ideal spinner, but the ability to get rid of stealth rocks with a viable sun Pokemon that has massive special defense is one of the greatest things to happen to sun since Drought Ninetails. Worried it is OP? I put a few restrictions on it with Egg moves. Afraid that will make it useless? Use seed bomb instead of Leaf blade, and Ice fang is a small sacrifice for Rapid Spin.

    Leaf Blade/Seed Bomb+Power Whip:I think it is obvious why I had to include Grass STAB to a Pokemon that counters water types. The thing you are asking though is probably why I included both Seed Bomb/Leaf Blade AND Power whip. Well, Simply put, it is because of Rapid spin (see egg moves) and accuracy. To make Rapid spin look a little less OP Leaf blade and Ice Fang are restricted from being on the same set, but Seed Bomb is still legal w/rapid spin which makes giving up Leaf Blade essentially nothing more than a loss of 10BP. As for accuracy, Power Whip only has 85%! So for those who are cautious, alternatives were included. ;)

    Pursuit/Foul Play/Crunch/Sucker Punch/Payback: Dark STAB moves are the bare minimum for Malaconda. There was a large list to choose from, so I threw in most of them. The important ones at least. Crunch is just standard. Sucker punch with Priority gives the slow Malaconda an edge against any who try to resist his powerful blows by being faster, while Foul Play helps to balance out Mal's lack of defense even if only slightly while Payback works to balance his low speed. Pursuit, however, is a little more unique. It is not a total requirement to have Pursuit, but Pursuit adds the effect of Mal being even harder to switch out on then it already is. While there are much better moves to belittle those who switch, Pursuit just adds another option to the list. It can't do much more damage than it already has. I am not expecting pursuit/Dragon tail/U-turn/Ice Fang Malaconda to be a threat, you can't base a moveset off of your opponents decisions. It just adds another option to the list of ways to annoy your opponent with your awesome prediction skills.

    Synthesis:I don't know how I feel about healing moves on Mal. Generally I feel like malaconda isn't meant to be a cleric for sun teams. And any old Chansey would do just as fine. So really Synthesis' addition was based off the fact that there was a lot of pressure on this move but I think harvest Sitrus berry in all honesty is actually better. Then again, a healing move never hurt. (ha)
    (see aromatherapy/heal bell for further info).

    Fake Out
    : Alternative to extreme speed for picking off low health, low defense Pokemon. With 100 base attack and several good stabs it is evident that Mal can stray from his path as defensive sun pivot and become an offensive sweep if it really tried hard to. Extreme Speed almost makes it easy to do so! This is why Fake Out is a better move for picking off low health Pokes without excessively glorifying Malaconda's attack stat. It also helps for breaking Multiscale and focus sash while immobilizing the opponent for one turn. It should be considered to say the least on a set.

    Overall he has several sets that allow him to be very viable as a defensive Pivot for Sun, and a decent array of moves that give him offense against several over used types in OU, but Mal also has the options of certain moves based off of pure skill and other ones based off of pure chance
    . Mal's Main purpose and best chances are on sun, yes, but I just wanted to give him a little more flexibility with his options as a Pokemon. I gave him a few moves that will certainly serve as an interesting area for testing. (At least I hope so). The flavor is based of of several negative qualities we have as humans (which the serpent in genesis in a way comes to represent) along with multiple moves oriented around his physical appearance.




    Notable Exclusions (open)


    Baton Pass
    : Basically, it is outclassed substantially by U-turn. Malaconda is going to rarely find a way to boost his stats, and even if he were able to find a way to sufficiently boost his stats (harvesting stat boost berries isn't my idea of sufficient), then baton passing would make Mal viable most anywhere on any team when really he is primarily for sun teams. That isn't even the point though. Plain and simple, U-turn does damage and keeps momentum while baton pass is essentially just a switch out with no priority.

    Volt switch: Again, U-turn outclasses it. The big reason here is because of U-turn's ability to hit grounds and cripple psychics and dark types, while Volt switch doesn't. On top of that, it has almost no flavor.

    Roar/Whirlwind: these moves are, yet again, outclassed, but not by U-turn. Instead, Roar and Whirlwind are outclassed by Dragon tail. ok, so Dragon tail isn't that great when it comes to type coverage, and the damage is minimal. But hey, damage is still damage. Also, to say the least, it is the most flavorful of the three listed here. (Also, yea, I know Roar is on the list of move-moves with crunch but several pokemon don't learn roar while learning crunch. Including Arbok!)

    Extremespeed: See "Fake Out" under Notable Inclusions bar to see why Fake Out was chosen over Exspeed.

    Destiny bond/Healing Wish/Memento/Final Gambit(which might be illegal): Anti-Concept plain and simple. I mean, Malaconda can't be a defensive Pivot when it is dead. Using Malaconda as a sacrifice makes it almost completely pointless. We worked so hard to make Sun Vs. Rain an actual battle of skill. We can't just kill CAP5 off like this. He is an important member to the team, not a sacrifice!

    **This is where, for me, cutting VGMs got hard. The following 3 moves were thought about a lot**

    Haze/Clear Smog: Got beaten out by Dragon tail, which just did the job better. I mean, Dragon Tail has a chance to potentially have negative effects, but I like to take risks. I needed to make room and there was no point on having two moves that had essentially the same purpose. I tried to avoid that as much as possible in final submission.

    Spikes: This was really hard to cut out. I know a lot of people really like this move but I am only allowed 33 moves. To me it was obvious why it had to go, but I was afraid to cut it out because of all the widespread approval it is getting. It will probably hurt my chances, but Malaconda can't have literally every trick in the book. Spikes along with an offensive set allows Mal to stray too far the sun, and would allow him a lot of spots on most any team. He would basically become a Cacturne--Blissey mix with so many possible sets I would throw in the towel.

    Heal Bell/Aromatherapy: This had a lot of positive feedback too, and it probably won't help me out by excluding it in the long run. However the reason I did exclude it is simple. Firstly, I didn't even see how it was viable. Secondly, It is so anti-flavor to give one of the most sinister looking grass types a move that benefits everyone but him. Malaconda looks selfish, wanting to take the kills for himself. Being a cleric is a little weird. Even adding synthesis is a bit too much for me, but that is really Malaconda helping himself by absorbing the energy of his allies moves so it is a bit more concept.



    Bold= VGM
    *= Does not count as a VGM despite being on VGM list (varies depending on situation)
    (R!)=Repeat
    [I don't expect this to win the vote, but I had too much fun making it to care.]
  24. Actually, I never thought about Encore. I guess I overlooked it somehow. I'll consider it. As for the other moves, Whirlwind seems redundant with Dragon Tail, and I prefer U-turn to Baton Pass because I don't want Malaconda passing berry boosts or subs.

    Deck Knight: According to cape's first post in the non-attacking moves discussion, Trick is disallowed.
  25. Xiom

    Xiom

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    136
    Only time it would matter is if you are up against a Baton Pass team. I't funny because Mr. Mime can actually Encore the roar and set up.
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