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CAP 17 CAP 6 - Part 1 - Concept Submissions

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by jas61292, Jul 22, 2013.

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  1. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
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    And so, once more, it is time to begin a new CAP project! Welcome everyone! Over the next couple months we will be creating an all new competitive Pokemon, and it all starts here. This community always impresses me with the great ideas that are thrown around throughout the entire project, and especially in this stage, so I can't wait to see what everyone has come up with this time. I hope that everyone will enjoy this project, and, with that said, lets get this underway!

    ---

    This is where we discuss the general goal of the next Create-A-Pokemon project -- CAP 6. The Concept will be a guiding force throughout the ensuing project, to ensure the the final result is a cohesive competitive pokemon. Any discussions, suggestions, or submissions in later topics, that do not support the spirit of the Concept, will be moderated by the moderators.

    Concepts must be presented as high-level descriptions of a general idea. They cannot be detailed Pokemon designs. Since we have polls to determine each aspect of the Pokemon, we cannot allow any specific features of the Pokemon to be determined by the details of the Concept.

    We intentionally have many rules regarding Concept Submissions. If you are not prepared to read and understand all the rules, then don't bother making a submission. These rules are made to help narrow the field of concepts down to those that have been carefully designed. This is not meant to be easy for everyone -- a good, legal Concept requires a lot of thought and careful wording.

    The following rules must be followed when submitting a Concept:
    • One submission per person. You may edit your Concept, but you may not change the fundamental premise after it has been posted. If editing your concept, please edit the original post instead of posting a new revision. Do not bump your Concept after you have posted it. If people do not comment on it, so be it.
    • Do not duplicate or closely-resemble Concepts already posted by others. It is your responsibility to read through all previous submissions in this thread to ensure you are complying with this rule. Ignorance or laziness is not an excuse.
    • Specific Pokemon types or type combos cannot be included or excluded in a Concept.Nor can other characteristics of the Concept specifically result in in the inclusion or exclusion of Types. For example, the following phrases would be illegal:
      "This is a Dragon pokemon with..."
      "The pokemon should be immune to Ghost attacks..."
      "The pokemon should have at least 7 resistances..."
      "The pokemon should get STAB on Thunderbolt.."​
    • Specific Abilities are not allowed.This applies to existing abilities and new abilities. Do not attempt to circumvent this rule by mentioning specific battle effects that can only be achieved by the implementation of an ability. For example, the following phrases would be illegal:
      "This pokemon should have a defensive ability like Intimidate or Marvel Scale..."
      "This pokemon has an ability that steals the opponent's held item..."
      "When this pokemon is switched in, all weather conditions are nullified..."​
    • Movepools or lists of moves are not allowed. A specific move can be mentioned if it is the basis for the entire concept. For example, the Concept "Rapid Spinner" would obviously mention the move Rapid Spin.
    • Specific stat bias, base stats, or base stat ratings are not allowed. It is acceptable to use descriptive phrases like "fast", "bulky", "strong attacker", etc -- since there are a variety of ways a pokemon can fit those descriptions without specifically requiring certain stats. But, do not use overly-specific descriptions that would narrowly constrain the pokemon's base stat spread.
    • Indications of Physical/Special bias are discouraged, but acceptable if it is essential to the Concept.
    • Do not refer to any part of the pokemon's artistic design.For example, the following phrases would be illegal:
      "This is a bright blue pokemon..."
      "The pokemon looks like a..."
      "The pokemon uses its long tail to..."​
    • A Concept Submission must be submitted in the proper format. The format is described below. If the proper format is not used, the moderators will not evaluate the submission, regardless of content.
    Concept Submission Format
    Use this format for all concept submissions:
    Here is the format with tags. Just copy/paste this into your post, and fill it out:
    Note: [noparse] tags are not working since the forum changeover. To make the above function properly, remove the spaces within each of the square brackets.
    • Name - Don't get too clever with the name. If the essence of the concept is not intuitively obvious in the name, then you are hurting your chances of people understanding it. If the essence of your concept cannot be expressed in a few words, then you need to seriously re-evaluate your concept.
    • Description - This is the official description of the concept, and must follow ALL the content rules listed above. Do not make this a long description. Long descriptions are invariably too specific or too convoluted. Keep it short. Any more than a sentence or two is TOO MUCH. Do NOT include your Explanation of the concept in the Description. See "Explanation" below.
    • Justification- A few sentences describing how the concept satisfies one or more of the following:
      • Has a positive effect on the metagame (e.g Fidgit’s Pure Utility)
      • Allows us to learn more about the metagame (e.g Tomohawk's Momentum)
      • Introduces a new niche in the metagame (such as Mollux's Extreme Makeover: Typing Edition)
      Do not make up your own categories for justification. If you cannot justify your concept against at least one of the three requirements above, then your concept is illegal for the CAP project.
    • Questions To Be Answered - The purpose of the CAP project is to learn new things about the metagame, and each concept submission is a proposed "experiment". List out a few interesting competitive questions that should be answered after properly implementing your concept. At the conclusion of the CAP project, these questions will be revisited to see how well we implemented the concept. If your questions are not significant, relevant to your Justification, and well-written -- then your concept will be rejected.
    • Explanation - This can contain just about anything. This is where you can explain your concept without restraint. You may make suggestions, even specific suggestions, regarding the possible implementation of the Concept. This explanation should help facilitate discussion of the Concept -- but the Explanation is NOT part of the Concept and will be omitted from the polls and any future use of the Concept. Since your explanation is non-binding, regarding future polls and threads, it will not be evaluated for purposes of determining if your concept is legal or illegal.
    It is the submitter's responsibility to figure out how to make a legal submission within the rules listed above. Do not complain about the difficulty of making a submission in this thread. There are many, many legal concepts that can be presented within the rules. Here are few examples of good and bad Concepts from previous projects:
    Good Concepts from Past Projects
    "Pure Utility Pokemon"​
    "Anti-Ghost Rapid Spinner"​
    "True Garchomp Counter"​
    "Great Lead Pokemon"​
    "Ultimate Weather Abuser"​
    "Status Counter"​

    Bad Concepts from Past Projects
    "Ice-Resisting Dragon"​
    "Super Luck User"​
    "STAB Explosion Glass Cannon"​
    "Auto-Stealth Rock Remover"​
    "A Pokemon with Special Intimidate"​
    "Pyrokinetic Pokemon (Fire/Psychic)"​
    "Special Guts"​
    "Typing Means Nothing"​

    Here's a sample of a legal Concept post. This is not an actual submission. It is being used only to illustrate the format and legal content:

    Note that all the "illegal stuff" is in the Explanation. The Description is short, and very carefully worded to follow all the rules. It does not specifically dictate anything in later polls.

    Please try to remember that we are simply pointing the project in a general direction. We are not trying to decide anything right now. We have several weeks of polls ahead of us where EVERYTHING about this Pokemon will be dissected, discussed, voted, and decided. The Concept is a very basic guide for the creation process. It is hard to provide solid concept descriptions without basically designing the entire Pokemon right off the bat. Submissions should be written and chosen very carefully, to avoid these problems.

    CAP 6 so far:

    Leadership Team:

    capefeather - Topic Leader​
    reachzero - Typing Leader​
    DetroitLolcat - Stats Leader​
    DarkSlay - Movepool Leader​
    Pwnemon - Ability Leader​
    Psylink, reachzero and DarkSlay like this.
  2. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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    <+Quanyails> capefeather has to make an opening statement, right?
    <&jas61292> correct

    Thank you, Your Honor. The defendant, Ms. Maya Fey, was at the scene of the crime. The prosecution has evidence she committed this murder... and we have a witness who saw her do it. The prosecution sees no reason to doubt the facts of this case, Your Honor.

    ...Wait, no, not THAT kind of opening statement...

    Hey there, I'm capefeather and I'm the Topic Leader for this project. As this is probably the last CAP project of this generation, I'm sure many are excited about this Special occasion, this last hurrah. The next generation is fairly Fast approaching, so let's give this our best Fight.

    TLs tend to use this post to say something along the lines of, "I want something that intrigues me," or sometimes they ask for something somewhat specific. The former comes off as both vague and obvious, so I find it pointless to say (though I guess techically I did say it). As for the latter, I could always say what I think I'm looking for, but in CAP 5, we saw the TL criticize concepts about countering/checking rain, yet checking rain became a big part of subsequent discussions thanks to a focus on weather. So anything can happen on this front.

    So I guess the best thing to talk about is what was so good about concepts that actually have succeeded in getting slated and winning. Concepts like "Momentum", "Ultimate Scout" and "Sketch Artist" were Lightningrods of discussion on how to go about dealing with concepts that are difficult to confront honestly. Concepts like "Extreme Makeover: Typing Edition", "Perfect Mate" and "Type Equalizer" gave a concrete goal, which resulted in discussion on the correct course of action given the state of the metagame. Regardless of the specifics of the direction, we are talking about illuminating what is Dark, and Absorbing the task that we give ourselves. We are trying to look at the OU metagame from a different angle.

    Please give careful thought to your concept submissions. Not everything that exists but is currently unviable can be made into an interesting concept. Obscurity is not sufficient for compelling discussion or looking at the OU metagame from a different angle. Prospective submitters should also look at existing submissions and see if they shouldn't just support one of them instead of having 11 similar concepts. I mean, if you really think your concept is better than a similar existing concept, then fine, but it's another thing to consider.

    I've taken way too long to write and/or delay writing this at this point, so I should wrap up right about now. Say, is anybody else reminded of Voodoom, the last CAP of DPP? That was a pretty cool fakemon we did.

    [​IMG]

    OH GOD HOW DID THE FAIRIES GET IN HERE
    Hollywood, Kenny and paintseagull like this.
  3. Quanyails

    Quanyails
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    To concepts!

    Name: Show Me Your Moves!

    General Description: A good user of moves with effects not frequently used in the OU metagame.

    Justification: There are many moves in Pokémon with great effects, but they often end up unused. Moves such as Gravity, Snatch, and Safeguard have potential in OU, but they are neglected for several reasons: the moves are apparently overshadowed, have poor distribution, or are inefficient compared to another strategy. This CAP uses a combination of typing, ability, and stats to make these underused moves not only feasible, but also capable.

    Questions To Be Answered:
    • What mechanics of Pokémon determine how viable moves are?--not only the Pokémon's typing, stats, and ability, but also its interaction with playstyles and momentum.
    • What new strategies might emerge by giving a new OU Pokémon underused moves?
    • What challenges do Pokémon that use lesser-used moves face compared to ones that use a more standard moveset?
    • If the Pokémon has options of staple OU moves (high-powered STABs, offensive stat-boosting moves, reliable recovery, Substitute), will those moves be useful to it, even if it's specialized toward a separate and distinct strategy?
    • Can underused moves increase other underused moves' viabilities?
    • Can one user of a strategy unrecognized in a metagame massively influence a pre-existing playstyle?
    Explanation:My inspiration for the concept stems from Sigilyph. Take the move Cosmic Power. It is a defense-boosting move, and it is avoided by OU user Jirachi, as even though Jirachi can wall and/or stall with this move, it is susceptible to multiple threats. First, it can be the recipient of a status effect that limits its walling capability. Additionally, opponents can put a Substitute up and boost their stats, while Jirachi is unable to break the Substitute without giving the opponent an advantage in terms of boosts. Using Cosmic Power Jirachi makes it a sitting duck.

    However, take a look at Sigilyph. This Pokémon is able to remove the flaws of using Cosmic Power through a combination of other lesser-used moves. Any status conditions it receives can be given to the opponent with Psycho Shift, and as it gains stat boosts with Cosmic Power, Stored Power increases in damage, making Sigilyph not only a sturdy wall, but also an offensive threat to non-Dark-types. It can Roost off any damage it does receive and thus continue boosting. That is just one possibility Game Freak has granted to the Pokémon metagame. Many moves that appear flimsy on their own chain well with other moves, and a Pokémon's typing, ability, and stats will increase their viabilities. Users of lesser-used moves can reveal an unexplored niche in the metagame and restore the viability of a lesser-used playstyle, giving fresh life to OU.

    Additional: I had a small compilation of 'interesting' moves that originally was in my Justification, but it became too lengthy. The moves included in it are Reflect Type, Soak, Aqua Ring, Telekinesis, Role Play, Whirlpool (and clones), Entrainment, Imprison, Heal Block, and Power Trick.

    --

    I'll be interested in seeing what other concepts people come up regarding the mature metagame of Gen V OU. :)
  4. reachzero

    reachzero the pastor of disaster
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    Let's try this again.

    Name: Setting the Pace
    General Description: This Pokemon plays very differently against Pokemon slower and faster than it, exploring the concept of speed benchmarks.

    Justification: Speed is one of the most defining aspects of a metagame. How "fast" or "slow" a metagame is largely defines the style of play and the usefulness of various moves, yet the concept of speed benchmarks remains largely unexplored. Pokemon fundamentally relate to other Pokemon on the basis of "faster" and "slower", and this concept would teach us about that relationship. Speed is a complex subject, since maximizing a Pokemon's speed is not always the best way to maximize that Pokemon's effectiveness, yet there are certain Pokemon that make such a great impact in terms of their maximum speed that they must be accounted for. Many Pokemon need to decide how much speed is enough, and understanding speed benchmarks will help us to understand that decision-making process.
    Questions To Be Answered:
    • How do the important speed benchmarks in a metagame get set?
    • How do they react to new Pokemon that directly relate to those benchmarks?
    • Which moves and strategies most greatly impact slower Pokemon?
    • Which moves and strategies most greatly impact faster Pokemon?
    • How does the utility of a tactic change based on the speed of the Pokemon involved?

    Explanation: A speed benchmark is the number that separates a slow-slow Pokemon from a merely slow one, a slow Pokemon from a midrange one, etc. For instance, Breloom and Politoed set the benchmark that no Pokemon of middling speed wants to dip below for OU at 263. In DPP, Tyranitar set this number at 245. Many moves such as U-turn, Baton Pass, and Substitute play very differently depending on the relative speed of the Pokemon and its opponent. Scizor is especially representative of this issue, as a slow Pokemon that commonly uses Bullet Punch and U-turn, both of which are moves that greatly impact and are impacted by Scizor's effective speed. Essentially, this Pokemon would tell us about the effect of speed benchmarks by playing very differently against Pokemon faster or slower than it, setting such a benchmark. The actual speed number is unimportant to the concept.
  5. Psylink

    Psylink

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    Awwww, almost the first one. Anyways...

    Name: The Saving Grace
    General Description: A pokemon that would normally crippled offensively or defensively due to it's typing, but it's ability lets it sweep or wall most of the metagame.
    Justification: This will help us a lot with learning about the metagame. If we gave this Pokemon two useful abilities, and one less useful one, we would probably see a difference in the way it runs.
    Questions To Be Answered: What if there were no abilities? How would it affect our metagame at it's climax (now)? Would some Pokemon be in a lower tier then others, if not for their abilities? Higher tiers with them? Do different Pokemon have niches not for their stats or movepool, but their ability? How do abilities, stats, typing, and movepool compliment each other on a Pokemon?

    Explanation: Abilities are a lot in this metagame. Rather than talking about Pokemon that are amazing because of their abilities, I'll talk about Pokemon that would be good if they had more desirable abilities. Take Weavile, would it be better / in a higher tier if it had Technician? Or Drapion with Levitate? There are many to be found.

    But that's just Theorymon (No offense buddy). I believe if we make a flawed Pokemon with an OU worthy movepool, stats, and maybe even typing, and give it "The Saving Grace", then we can have a successful, competitive, Pokemon.
  6. srk1214

    srk1214 is a giant squid of anger
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    Name: All Your Phaze Are Belong to Us

    General Description: The ultimate phazer

    Justification: Gen V has seen a shift to more offensive playstyles. Among the many team roles to see less usage this generation is that of the phazer.

    Questions To Be Answered:
    • Which boosting threats are most important to target in order to make a successful phazer for the OU metagame?
    • Can a successful phazer benefit stall to the point where it becomes a viable strategy in OU again?
    • How do the effects of Roar/Whirlwind vs Dragon Tail/Circle Throw play out in the OU metagame?
    • Would a successful phazer benefit only stall? What other playstyles would appreciate a good phazer?
    • How can this phazer be differentiated from existing phazers like Heatran, Skarmory, and Hippowdon?

    Explanation: Powerful set-up threats exist in Gen V such as DoubleDance Terrakion, ScarfMoxieMence, and Calm Mind Latias. Stall also faces threats from the likes of Sub Kyurem-B and much much more. While I don't think having a strong phazer will singlehandedly shift the balance in favor of stall, I am curious to see what effect it has on the viability of the playstyle. I think that the biggest thing to explore is the viability of a more utility-phazer. Skarmory phazes Rock Polish Landorus-T just fine. But not so much Calm Mind HP Fire Latias. Heatran phazes Calm Mind HP Fire Latias just fine. But not so much Rock Polish Landorus-T. Essentially, we'd be looking for a phazer that can handle a large multitude of set-up threats from both sides of the attacking spectrum. This could be accomplished several ways, which I can't really get too in depth on, without poll-jumping. One possibility mentioned by other users is something along the lines of Riolu, but more viable. This is not my preferred option, but it certainly is one. There are creative ways to utilize abilities, moves, typing, and stats to effectively deal with a good quantity of offensive threats without breaking the game.
    Meru, Base Speed, Fizz and 3 others like this.
  7. Yilx

    Yilx Sad
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    Resubmitting.

    Name: The Big Dipper
    General Description: A wallbreaker that focuses on breaking your opponent's core through other means outside of brute force.

    Justification: In the current meta, there exists many ways to "break" your opponent's core, through downright brute force through wallbreakers like Mamoswine or Specs Keldeo in the Rain. This mon specializes in dismantling your opponent's core and neutralize it.

    Instead of using brute force, this mon breaks your opponent's core by neutralizing parts or all of it before they notice or by forcing your opponent into a situation that they have to sacrifice part of it in order to prevent themselves from losing the game.

    We will be exploring if there be other ways to run a "Wallbreaker" outside of outright brute force. Maybe through status? Misleeading your opponent into a false sense of security?

    Basically, it's a wallbreaker that does not utilize huge attacking stats with high powered moves to break through your opponent's team core, but rather through other means; by the time your opponent knows their core is broken, they are already dead.

    Questions To Be Answered:
    • What defines a "core"? Celetran, Toed/Ferro/Jirachi, etc are all considered "cores", but we do not have a standard "definition" for one. Is it just a triplet of Pokemon that work together very well in unison, or a pair that has perfect coverage on the meta?
    • What defines "Wallbreaking"? Most think of this as just using things like Rock Gem SD Terrak to break through Gliscor or using LO Mamo to just punch holes in your opponent's walls in general. However, can we do more past that?
    • How will a specific Pokemon get around rigid defensive cores or switch into strong offensive cores? Good typing and stats? Or perhaps a specific movepool that allows it to do both?
    • Can we do this without turning the mon into "just another" setup sweeper? Or is that one good way of doing this?
    • How will this Pokemon preserve it's "surprise" factor even when people prepare for it?
    • Is there a way to cause your opponent to be "losing" without them knowing it? Like bluffing a Expert Belt Scizor as a CB Scizor through the match and setting up SD to get a clean sweep when the time is right?

    Explanation: For most teams, the moment a key mon in a specific core goes down, the rest of the team falls apart very easily because of their pivot or specific wall being gone. Because of this, most people would try to keep their core alive as much as possible; be it through good plays and prediciton or just using as much recovery as they can.

    However, if there was a mon that specialized in taking these "cores" apart, people would have to prepare for it. However, preperation and guessing can only get one so far; not everything in a match will go according to what one predicts. Putting hax aside, surprise factors and gimmicks are called so because that is their limit. It will be interesting if there was a mon that could turn it's "gimmicks" into deadly ways to puncture your opponent's team.
  8. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP ROB
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    Psylink, how is your concept different from Mollux's concept? Your questions also seem kind of unrelated.

    I just realized that people can "like" submission posts now. People should use that functionality.
  9. Psylink

    Psylink

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    Shit. I didn't think about him. Can I please edit? I know jas said you can't, but I really derped there.
  10. The Steam Punk

    The Steam Punk

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    I love Quanyails' idea. But while I'm here...

    Name: The Immovable Object

    General Description: A Pokemon that stops an opponent's sweep with minimum drawbacks.

    Justification: Sweepers are ever-present in the OU metagame, and can demolish a team if given the chance. "The Immovable Object" would be a fresh counter to these forces, both supporting your own team and making the opponent create new strategies to overcome the new disadvantages of sweepers.

    Questions to be Answered:
    • What is the easiest and most advantageous way to stop a sweep?
    • Would the number of sweepers in OU change (likely lessen) given this new counter?
    • What would change in the OU metagame with less sweepers?
    • How could this counter be countered?
    Explanation: Look at any offensive OU team, and chances are, there is a sweeper in it. Popular choices include Choice Band Garchomp, Specs Latios, and countless others, who have picked off my teams as many times. The inspiration for a quick-n-easy counter to them came from Froslass. Its frailty makes it complete fodder for sweepers - or it would, if it didn't have Destiny Bond to take advantage of this fact. However, this solution also kills Froslass, leaving the team with one less Pokemon. Could there be a solution that doesn't affect my team so negatively? What would happen with less sweepers in OU as a result of the solution? I hope to find out.
    ninja death strike likes this.
  11. vyomov

    vyomov

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    Name: Hail, it's rather cold out here...
    Description: A pokemon designed to level the weather playing field for hail
    Justification: As OU continues to be dragged into a weather war, hail is arguably the weakest weather right now. It possesses neither the offensive increase found in Sun or in Rain NOR the defensive pluses in Sand. More importantly, the number of mons that can actually abuse hail are fairly low in number and most of these mons are Ice-types, creating defensive liabilities for the team.

    Questions to be answered:
    - What are the weaknesses of hail vs other weathers?
    - How can we cover these weaknesses both defensively and offensively
    - In what way can we ensure that the said mon is not also used on other weather teams?
    - In what way can we utilize the advantages of hail to the detriment of other weathers?
    - At the same time, how can we ensure that weatherless teams are not as affected by the new mon as "weathered" teams

    Explanation:
    Most weather teams can easily exploit the defensive liabilities of Ice-types to beat out hail teams. Furthermore, the premier defensive type in the meta(Steel) resists Ice AND has SE coverage vs it, making hail teams hard to use over other teams. But with the right mon, we could potentially force other weathers to think out of the box in order to combat the "new" hail teams , thus encouraging creativity in the current metagame.
  12. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner Ain't no rest for the wicked
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    This is Exciting!!

    Title: Second Best

    Description:A Pokemon that is a slightly inferior version of several very different OU pokemon and therefore does not have any true niche in the metagame. Howevee, thanks to sheer versatility and the surprise factor said versatility provides, this Pokemon still manages a strong presence in the metagame.

    Justification: This concept allows us to examine how much pure versatility contribute to a Pokemon's viability while simultaneously allowing us to better understand the power and limits of the surprise factor in-battle. This is because this concept attempts to examine the effect of versatility on viability in the absence of any niche- related competitive viability, which basically isolates the variable we are trying to study. Furthermore, by creating a pokemon that is completely outclassed in everything it does, we would be forced to actively analyze how each individual component of the Pokemon contributes to its set development in order to impede the development of any standalone sets. The insights on set development provided by this concept may prove helpful when developing sets for sixth generation pokemon and competitive Pokemon as a whole.

    Questions to be Answered

    • How do typing, abilities, movepool, and stats come together to form Pokemon sets? Do any of these aspects affect set development more than the others, and if so, why?
    • How much does versatility help a Pokemon's viability? How important is the surprise factor in battle ?
    • Which Pokemon did we choose to imitate? Why did we choose these Pokemon? Do they have any common features between them?
    • How does CAP 6 fit onto teams? Is CAP 6 generally the centerpeice of its team or does it tend to play more of a supporting role?
    • What steps were taken to ensure CAP 6 would always be outclassed in OU?
    • When do players reveal CAP 6's set? Is the set revealed early game to nab a surprise kill or saved for late game to clean up after its counters are weakened?
    • How do players account for CAP 6 when they see it in team preview? How does CAP 6 affect the flow of battle? Do opponents have to play around CAP 6 and if so, how?
    Explanation

    I think this concept is fairly easy to understand. We are not trying to introduce a new niche to the metagame per se; instead, we are trying to create a pokemon that is completely reliant on its unpredictability. I am going to organize this explanation into a FAQ format to keep track of my responses to comments and questions as they are raised. I've included one that i thought up for starters.

    Q: can you give an examples of an outclassed set that exist in the metagame?

    A: There actually is a perfect example from a while back: sword dance infernape versus sword dance Blaziken. Blaziken could do everything infernape could do but better. Yes, infernape had access to small perks like mach punch, but Blaziken could almost always do its job better. Notice that after blaziken was banned, physical infernapes of all kinds skyrocketted in popularity. That is the sort of dynamic i want this CAP to have, but with multiple pokemon.
    Porii Sames and tehy like this.
  13. LimaPro643

    LimaPro643

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    Name: Superman

    General Description: A bulky Pokémon with offensive prowess that can take nearly any attack with ease, bar a few "Kryptonites" that could easily shut it down.

    Justification: There aren't too many true walls out there that can deal significant damage without need of a setup. Some walls rely purely on status and entry hazards to cause damage. Those that try sometimes can't make it happen before the opponent cripples them. Not too many Pokémon have the option of being a wall or a sweeper. Would many players consider an Azelf tank or a hard-hitting Bastiodon? Some Pokémon only have one or few viable purposes, with the opponent well aware of what said Pokémon's game plan is. This Pokémon could be powerful enough to be a hard hitter without need for setup or durable enough to function as a wall - provided the opposing Pokémon doesn't have any Kryptonite.

    Questions to be answered:

    Can Pokémon be able to truly run both offensive and defensive sets without the opponent having any initial clue what it may be running?

    Will other players carry this Pokémon's "Kryptonites" frequently to easily knock out this Pokémon?

    How important is the surprise factor in Pokémon, and could this Pokémon use it to its advantage?

    Could this Pokémon be a check to a wide variety of Pokémon despite crippling, and perhaps even common weaknesses?

    Explanation: Players are often aggravated when certain walls just toy with Pokémon rather than knock it out because they either lack the coverage or have no possible direct damage output. Battles often become long and drawn out due to these Pokémon. At least, some Pokémon can finish off teams quickly with Scarfs or boosts and whatnot. This Pokémon could potentially not only stop those Pokémon in their tracks but also have the offensive capability to take them out. I had Steel in mind when thinking of this Pokémon due to the type's massive resistance spread, but anything is possible. It could be paired with an offensive type and have a decent movepool to deal with several threats.
  14. Scorpio

    Scorpio

    Joined:
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    Name - Form Changer

    Description - A Pokemon that can change forms in battle, with each form serving an entirely different niche in the metagame, and being able to do this efficiently.

    Justification - My justification is simple; we don't have many Pokemon that can change form mid-battle, and even then they're mostly superfluous. Of those that change in mid-battle that aren't purely for show, Meloetta is stuck in the bottom of UU, Darmanitan's method of changing sucks to the point that Darm-Z is the only Pokemon left in Limbo, and Castform in general is a gimmick. In short, it's largely wasted potential (Meloetta is just barely an exception). So, my thinking is that we could have a Pokemon that changes forms that is effective in the standard metagame with each form having its own separate niche. It'd be a breath of fresh air in the metagame and add a good sense of unpredictability in the metagame.

    Questions To Be Answered -
    • Would this Pokemon be outclassed in its niches?
    • How would the metagame react to a Pokemon that can change its role mid-battle?
    • How will teambuilding be affected by the same?
    • What can this CAP teach us about a Pokemon's role in the metagame and the consequences of a Pokemon adapting multiple roles, especially two radically differing roles?
    • Why aren't form-changing Pokemon successful in OU? Is transforming itself the problem, or another flaw?
    • Would this Pokemon be attempting to do too much for one Pokemon?
    • Should we encourage players to use one form of this Pokemon exclusively, or should we encourage them to make this CAP change form?
    Explanation - So yeah, as I said above, this isn't really something that's been explored, either in the standard metagame, or CAP. Which sucks, because I see a lot of potential with this concept. For example, CAP 6 could start out in one mode, switch to another mode when a counter to the first mode is sent out, and the switch back once that counter is taken out. Also, I recommend that this Pokemon should be able to switch between forms freely so that A: People can choose which form this Pokemon is in at the start of the battle and B: the Pokemon should retain its form upon switching out. For what I would do with this Pokemon, I would make its typing something that has good neutral coverage so it would leave slots open for support moves the other form can use. Also, for form switching, I would have it switch forms with a move, unless we can come up with a form-changing ability that doesn't totally suck (coughZenModecough).
  15. Base Speed

    Base Speed What a load of BS!
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Yay, 100 posts and CAP6 concept. How exciting.

    -----​

    Name: Punishment
    Description: A pokemon who specialises in causing and capitalising upon skill-based mistakes from the opponent

    Justification: Nobody can battle perfectly, and even in high level play, trainers will make errors. However, these mistakes are complex affairs, with a lot of factors influencing what causes them and their consequences. It's an aspect of gameplay that's relatively unexplored and I hope creating a CAP focused around it will give a deeper insight into it.

    Questions to be answered:
    • What kinds of mistakes occur commonly in high level play? Why do they occur and what are their consequences?
    • How can a player influence the chances of their opponent making an error and what can they do to maximise their gains when they do? Conversely, what measures do players take to minimise their own chance of errors and limit their consequences when they do occur?
    • How do various types of errors each interact with and involve other battle aspects such as momentum, switching, luck and prediction?
    • How do the various parts of a pokemon's build (typing, ability, etc) help it to induce and abuse errors?
    • What existing pokemon are particularly good at causing and/or benefiting from errors? Which are particularly susceptible to them and which are safer options? Why is this the case?
    • What new ways of forcing errors and using them have been found during the creation process? Can they be applied to any existing pokemon?
    Explanation:
    Mistakes are a massive aspect of pokemon because they decide who wins the battle and who loses. Everyone makes them too. Surely that makes them intriguing? Focusing a CAP around it could give us a deeper understanding of this vital battle aspect.

    The mention of "skill-based" mistakes in my justification was meant to help define the term somewhat, and help focus the idea. This is about mistakes that experienced and intelligent players make. Not misclicks or a newcomer using Scald on your Gastrodon, they're not interesting. And while it is technically a mistake to not consider how probability effects your gameplay, random number generator luck is often totally beyond the player's control and thus isn't a skill based error. It should be avoided in future discussions.
    You might ask, then, whether this is just a concept about prediction. Maybe. It certainly seems the most likely . But that's a discussion I want to see and not something I should simply state in my concept.

    The idea here is to use typing, ability, stats and movepool to both create "game theory" like situations and to maximise your reward from winning one. Perhaps using abilities like Flash Fire and Storm Drain, that seek to benefit from a poorly timed attack, or Arena Trap or Magnet Pull (take a look at Dugtrio), to exaggerate the consequences of a bad switch. We could opt for some sort of partnership, like making a pokemon that somehow baits the opponent into using water moves with the intention of switching a Storm Drain or Water Absorb user. (Though I confess, this option would be a lot like Voodoom). A don't-let-this-guy-set-up-at-all-costs approach, like Shell Smash Omastar, is a possibility too, as it would punish the opponent for letting it set up. Of course, there's no need to limit ourselves to one approach and any valid approach could be combined with others.
  16. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Just one major flaw I can see. At higher levels of play, the biggest "mistakes" skilled players make, its mostly getting out predicted, often in 50/50 "coinflip" situations. If you want to create a pokemon that promotes bad play from your opponent, you need to make sure its not creating those coinflip opportunities in an unhealthy way. For instance, the recently banned Landorus-I would fit your concept to a tee, since if you predicted wrong, it would Rock Polish or nail your counter with U-Turn (often using Tar to trap), or get a KO with Earth Power. If you used a locked electric attack as it switched in then again, you would be punished for that "bad play".

    So I guess you need to (personally) narrow your focus a little bit, and focus on a) avoiding us creating a broken sweeper that punishes a 50/50 prediction, or b) something that is "lucky" to use, or something that otherwise limits or takes away from the skill involved in playing the game. You also need to target the "mistake". For instance, if we make a mon that steals stat up boosts, (ie Psych Up), then any half decent player will refuse to set up against CAP 6 during the playtest, thus ruining our chances at exploring the concept.

    Like I don't know how you can force / encourage your opponent to constantly commit the "mistake" (if the mistake doesn't occur CAP 6 is hardly useful) against a high level player who will be aware of what NOT to do, thus not creating the mistake and around and around it goes. I'm not attempting to fully shut down this concept, I just think it needs to be a little less vague since the above issues needed to be sorted out (at least in my opinion) so we could have an idea as to how to proceed if this won voting.
    capefeather likes this.
  17. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Well-shuffled and flush
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Name: Vengeful but Chipper

    General Description: A Pokemon that can effectively weaken and then revenge kill opponents, but has little or no sweeping potential itself.

    Justification: Setting up a sweep is often a crucial element of battle strategy, but most sweepers either need to remain healthy or require the support of something like dual screens in order to have lasting power. What this Pokemon would do is have the capacity to switch in, weaken a foe effectively, and then either revenge kill them at low health or quickly transition to another Pokemon on the team. By repeatedly switching in to weaken foes and disrupt their sweeps or finish them off, this Pokemon will be able to influence both offensive and defensive playstyles.

    Questions To Be Answered:
    • What is the most effective way to weaken opponents to maximize the potential for a revenge kill?
    • What is the balance of damage before something goes from a competent revenge killer to a sweeper in its own right? (i.e. if a Pokemon can do 43% to a threat with priority is it more likely to be a sweeper because its STAB is, for example 2.5 times more powerful?)
    • Is it more valuable to have a Pokemon that can ease sweeps or walling for other Pokemon or to have a more traditional sweeper or wall?
    • Are hazards a necessary element of chip damage, or can it be better explored with moves like Fake Out, U-turn, Volt Switch, or partial trapping moves which can act to deny turns or create more favorable defensive matchups?
    • What elements of revenge killing are most important? Is it high speed with a Choice Scarf, strong priority, a Strong STAB or coverage move, trapping capability - basically what makes revenge killing work most effectively?
    • What role do power, bulk, and speed each play in revenge killing? Which is the most important and why?
    • What prevents a revenge killer from becoming so effective it becomes a sweeper? Is it merely a lack of viable boosting moves in a competitive environment, or are there other elements?
    • Will faster, frailer threats by more threatened by a chipper, or will bulkier threats be more threatened by lower HP when it comes time to unleash their own team's sweep?
    Explanation:

    The concept of revenge killing has always fascinated me, as well as the notion of stalling out turns for damaging effects. While there are a few strong revenge killers that can't act as sweepers, many of them can't switch in effectively. Scizor for example can switch in well, but it so ridiculously powerful it can almost sweep weakened teams with STAB CB Tech Bullet Punch, while Mamoswine finds few opportunities to switch in but can cause a lot of havoc with Ice Shard and a super-strong Earthquake if it does. Breloom must be even more careful than Mamoswine but operates similarly. Conkeldurr is something in-between, where it can clean up and take some hits, but relies on priority for the revenge kill.

    Really what I was thinking of here is some kind of perfected Mienshao, which can cause opponents to stumble and shift in and out of battle quickly and more ably disrupt sweeps by getting the drop on a foe and knocking them into KO range. I'd expect it to be a bit bulkier than Mienshao, or otherwise have some immunities to capitalize on when it comes in - perhaps something like Normal / Ghost where would fulfill this where it gets STAB on Fake Out and is immune to the common Ghost + Fighting coverage, and its STABs have limited use for directly sweeping an opponent. Either way, the idea is trying to strike that balance between chipping power and a low likelihood of a sweep itself.

    I think a concept like this is very viable project because it gives a specific direction for an end product and focuses towards a specific, but flexible kind of debatable build. There are a lot of similar Pokemon that fill a role like this in some metagames. Ambipom is a notable example for having many of the chipping qualities - but few of the Pokemon that have those qualities integrate that into a Pokemon capable of revenge killing. Weavile on the other hand can chip, but its chipping mechanisms aren't that powerful and it's let down by the fact it has no decently powerful coverage moves. Lucario can't chip but could be used as a revenge killer if its stat spread were closer to Cobalions (or vice-versa with Cobalion and a movepool swap.)
    Magolor, hoblaph, Base Speed and 8 others like this.
  18. ShinyRegice

    ShinyRegice

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    143
    Name: Luck regulator
    General Description: An effective Pokémon in the metagame whose playstyle reduces luck involved in battles.
    Justification: Competitive battling wants to promote skill and isn't intended to become a lottery, but they are some random factors in battles that may define the winner by themselves. Those factors include the random damage multiplier (between 85 and 100 %), critical hits, misses, and secondary effects. While some of these factors are not decisive, some other factors can actually reverse the course of a game.
    Questions To Be Answered:
    • How much is the impact of luck important in the metagame?
    • What are the most problematic moves and Pokémon about luck involvement in the metagame?
    • How to counter luck involvement?
    • Among random factors in the game, what are those that are really important is luck involvement?
    • Should a game where luck is much better controlled be necessarily healthier?
    Explanation: Like I already said, competitive battling is not meant to be a lottery, but in practise a lot of battles have their winner definied by critical hits came out of nowhere, Stone Edge misses, Focus Blast misses, etc. Sometimes your only hope to win is destroyed not by an unexpected trick from your opponent, but just by one of these stupid random factors that permit to your opponent to steal the victory. This CAP is designed to avoid these situations for yours and your opponent when used, thanks to its playstyle, ability, and a typing that gives it resistance against problematic luck-involving moves.
    RudyxKam likes this.
  19. The Leprechaun

    The Leprechaun

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
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    Name: Gravity of the situation

    General Description: A true abuser of gravity who benefits enough from the effects of it to pull off a sweep, much like reuniclus' relationship with trick room.

    Justification: Gravity is a move that is seen incredibly rarely in the current metagame most due to the fact that there are very few pokes that benefit enough from it to warrant a move slot and use of a turn. To me at least I think it would be very intersting to see the effect of gravity in OU mostly because if the importance of flying type or levitate for many pokes, namely gliscor, rotom-w, skarmory, landorus etc etc.


    Questions To Be Answered:

    - Are the effects of gravity game changing enough to turn a regular poke into one that was large potential to sweep?

    - What typing would be most effective to abuse the loss of flying type?

    - If you give this pokes a number of low accuracy moves, will this simply encourage scarfed sets and will gravity become unnecessary? How do we stop this and make gravity essential to this poke?

    - Is it possible to build a team around gravity? Does this poke help to do so?



    Explanation Gravity has a huge effect on a battle, maybe not as much as trick room or tailwind but it still can break a team not ready for it. I imagine the lack of ground immunity or fighting resistance could be pretty huge for this pokemon, whether this is because it can hit powerful focus blasts without any drawbacks and increased super effective or neutral coverage or because it has fantastic offensive synergy with terrakion or landorus. The best example i came up with when thinking about this was a flying/fighting type with high speed and high special attack and with a good movepool of low accuracy moves but a lack of high accuracy moves. Stab hurricane and focus blast with great accuracy sounds pretty menacing. I know however the CAP community is far more creative than i am and i think there is probably plenty of opportunity for gravity abuse.

    Sorry if this is a concept that's been submitted in previous projects, this is the first one i've looked at. :]
    Doran Dragon likes this.
  20. Yilx

    Yilx Sad
    is an Artistis a Smogon IRC AOP

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    Quanyails: Like what capefeather said, "Not everything that exists but is currently unviable can be made into an interesting concept". I feel that you either need to branch out more or clear up the ambiguity, because moves that are not used are not used for a good reason. Goos examples are like Sigil you brought up which is the only mon that uses CP (PS. the offensive set is better) or unless you're also referring to mons like Wartortle and Blastoise who run Foresight simply because they have little niche outside of spinning or Ambipom who uses Beat Up simply because it has no other options to hit Ghosts and it gets the Technician Boost off it (PS don't use Ambipom). Breloom is also another good example as pretty much the only mon in the game who runs Low Sweep to get the -1 speed on Latios and 2HKO it. For one, I most definitely do not think a Synchronoise mon would be fun to construct and use.

    srk1214: Yours has potential, but most of us can already feel the power of phazing moves in OU. Again, it is too ambiguous at the moment, so please explain more. Do you want to only play the mon on stall? Does it use roar like Roar Blaziken does? etc.

    forestflamerunner: Please explain yours further, because right now it sounds like "I want a UU mon that is outclassed by OU but at the same time outclasses OU!". Read that again and tell me how strange that sounds. To be fair, Mew fufills this role pretty well and could be used as a case study, but please explain more.

    LimaPro643: Unless I'm not getting something, this is basically (almost) every dragon-type in OU ever or Scizor/Ferro. Do explain further.

    Base Speed: Pretty much my favourite out of the lot thus far, but there is a LOT of ambiguity you have to clear up. A "mistake" is a very broad term in the game, ranging from those that you can control to those you can't. "Mistakes" also differ majorly from playstyle to playstyle and even player to player. One situation could be something as follows; "I can switch Scizor into this HP Fire well because I am running 252/252+ and I am using an Occa Berry!" and then having the HP Fire crit and KO Scizor anyway. Does this count as the player's mistake? Is it his fault for not considering the critical hit? Or is it not his fault because "crit lol"? ginganinja's post sums up my thoughts pretty well, too. Please work on your concept further.

    Deck Knight: I think it could have more depth than just "Make Weavile good." Unless there's something to it that I'm not getting, that's how I intepret your concept right now.

    To those that I didn't comment on, your concept either needs much more clearer explanation or just plainly isn't interesting or workable enough. Sorry.
    capefeather likes this.
  21. paintseagull

    paintseagull pink wingull
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    A couple of brief comments:

    I think a weather concept this time would be very unhealthy for the project given the weather-centric discussion we ended up having for CAP 5. One take-home point from CAP 5 to me was that making one type of weather good while not impacting the playstyle of other weathers is probably impossible. How do you make a pokemon that's good for Hail without either making it a weather-inducer or making it good on other weather too, as a counter for the type of weather you're promoting in the first place? Let's not forget the lessons we have learned from past projects when constructing new ones. Remember, the point of this project is the discussion more so than the final product, and we don't want our discussion to be stale.

    For this reason, I really like Yilx and reachzero's concepts. They might not result in a flashy final product, but I think both would give very interesting discussions.

    Luck concepts are bad and don't make any sense. Luck in games means that you have to consider your wins and losses in the long run. Critical hits and misses and other effects that have % chances of occurring will happen to you at the same rate as anyone else over many games. If you play poorly and rely on crits and misses, you will lose more often than you win. Please don't post a luck or hax based concept for the love of god.
    capefeather likes this.
  22. NinjaStars

    NinjaStars

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
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    67
    Name: Stat Lifter
    General Description: A Pokemon that has laughable offensive stats, but has stat boasting moves.
    Justification: There are many moves that boasts offensive stats. Calm Mind and Swords Dance are the most common because they boost Special Attack and Attack respectively. Dragon Dance boosts attack and speed and is commonly found on Dragons. Bulk Up raises attack and defense and is found on Fighting Pokemon. Shell Smash boosts both offensive stats and speed sharply but lowers its defense. Quiver Dance is like a Calm Mind with a speed boost and Curse acts like a Physical Quiver Dance while lowering its speed. Others are not used such as Tail Glow and Work Up. This Pokemon should have some these moves that were listed.
    Questions To Be Answered:
    What Boosting Moves does this Pokemon have?
    Does this Pokemon have the ability to take hits while setting up?
    Is there a way to prevent this CAP from setting up?
    Can you build a team around this Pokemon?

    Explanation: There are several needs to this Pokemon. It can not have weaknesses to common types so this Pokemon does not need to switch out often. This Pokemon should have great STABS. Lastly this Pokemon should have bulk to not be killed easily while setting up.
  23. DarkSlay

    DarkSlay This Wouldn't Have Happened In Romney's Smogon
    is a CAP Contributor

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    Name: Swiss Army Knife
    General Description: This Pokemon can fill a role for any team archetype, but focuses on its role with the team rather than itself.
    Justification: This concept places an emphasis on versatility, affecting both its placement during the Team Building stage and its usage during actual gameplay. With the evolution of team building in Generation V, which focuses on both themes like weather and playstyles like bulky offense and stall, the metagame has found itself in a state where the threats are varied but the Pokemon themselves (and as a result the playstyles) are fairly straightforward. The definition of "versatile" also finds itself to be unclear. Pokemon like Landorus-I and Keldeo can be seen as versatile due to their sheer power and typing, but Pokemon like Celebi and Jirachi can play multiple roles, hence their "versatility".

    Questions To Be Answered:
    · What is "versatility" by Generation V's standards? Is it who the individual Pokemon is, or what the individual Pokemon can do?
    · How important is it for a Pokemon to be versatile?
    · How does versatility impact the Team Building stage? What would a team-centric Pokemon do to shape team builds?
    · How does versatility impact in-game decisions of both the player and the opponent? How does a player react to different kinds of versatility?

    Explanation:
    As stated in the Justification section, there are mutliple ways to look at "versatility". Landorus-I is a versatile Pokemon: it can threaten most of the Pokemon in the metagame, which gives it the ability to fit on almost any team. Celebi is a versatile Pokemon: it can run an offensive set, it can run defensive sets, it can support the team, and it can even Baton Pass boosts. The goal of this concept is to look at the way the term "versatility" is seen and how it applies to the team creation stage and how it's used in battle. While the justification may seem like the project will lean towards the Celebi build, the way a player views "help for the team" is purely subjective and open for debate. We could approach this topic from many angles, so long as the focus lies on enabling multiple team builds to succeed.

    This does not mean the CAP should be forced to play a support role. There is a difference between "supporting the team" and "using Support to help the team". For example, Gen IV Celebi ran a lure set that was specifically designed to bring out and OHKO Scizor. For the team, that played a huge role in paving success. It was also an offensive way of helping the team out. Another example is Gyarados. Dragon Dance sure is nice, but when a team needs a bulky phazer, RestTalk Gyara is employed to help dish out residual damage. That's the exact kind of versatility we're talking about: something to help out the team it's on achieve its goal.

    The best part about this kind of concept is how wide open it is: questions in the metagame that are so broad, yet are specified enough to have concrete examples, give us both the freedom to make choices that cater to our needs while having the structure of direction for the project. Personally, I can't say for sure what the stats, abilities, movepool, or typing of this Pokemon will be, as the concept leaves pretty much all of that up in the air.
  24. SubwayJ

    SubwayJ

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    Had some discussion about this on IRC a few days ago, lets give it a shot.

    Name: Blunt Force Trauma
    General Description: An offensive threat who gets no effective use of its STAB.
    Justification: Looking at the on-site OU analyses, currently 2 pokemon have sets that do not utilize a STAB move with 75 BAP or higher. Those pokemon are Blissey, the infamous pink blob, walling special attackers to the moon and back since gen II, and Scizor, reigning crown of OU posing a strong threat since the release of Platinum. Of those two, we essentially have one pokemon in the entirety of OU who does not utilize a decent STAB move on a regular basis (that being Blissey, not Scizor). We really have no insight, for this generation anyways, as to how a pokemon without the ability to use its STAB competitively would work in the metagame. The main goal here would be to see what it takes in terms of stats, movepool, ability, to make a STABless pokemon effective.
    Questions to be Answered:
    • How are coverage moves chosen for a STABless mon?
    • What is the difference between having a good typing and having a good STAB in the OU metagame?
    • How do checking and countering interact with a pokemon who relies entirely on coverage?
    • In terms of power, just how much does that 1.5* boost to moves affect a pokemon?
    • How much is a pokemon put at deficit from the beginning, just by not having decent STAB moves?
    • What steps must be taken to overcome this deficit in terms of movepool, stats and ability to keep this pokemon effective in the OU metagame?
    Explanation: The best example of what fulfills this concept well would have to be gen 3 Gengar, the ghost who couldn't use its STAB. This lack of same typed moves, didn't hold it back however, as Gengar stayed well in OU. Something that can do just that in Gen 5 would be a loose goal for this concept.

    Now when I say "gets no effective use of its STAB" that is pretty vague. What I mean by this is that the pokemon in question may have STAB, but it just can't use it properly for whatever reason. A Grass-Type pokemon with Vine Whip is hardly going to be using it, despite the same type of the user and the move. Likewise, a pokemon with 20 base Special Attack won't be using Energy Ball to a great extent. Overall this pokemon just cannot use its STAB moves and stay relevant.

    A pokemon who completes this concept, in my opinion, will also have a very different effect on teams than conventional attackers. It won't be used for its great attacking type, but rather it'd be an offensive pokemon who is looked for other specific attributes when teambuilding.
    Magolor, Enoch, hoblaph and 12 others like this.
  25. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner Ain't no rest for the wicked
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    What i was looking for with this concept was a pokemon that was a weaker version of heatran, a weaker version of gliscor, and a weaker version of dragonite at the same time. If any of these three pokemon got banished to Ubers, our CAPmon would essentially swoop in to fill the vacant niche. However, despite being outclassed in every one of its possible niches, this Pokemon still manages to thrive in OU because when the opponent sees the pokemon in team preview, he or she has no idea what to expect which gives the CAPmon an insanely strong surprise factor, which it depends on to stay viable. Note that according to this concept, Capmon must not forge a new niche for itself that makes it viable independent of the niches its "replicating" so that we can fully explore how important unpredictability is to a Pokemon's viability.

    Btw I am not suggesting that we have to base this pokemon off of heatran, gliscor, and dragonite. I just used them to illustrate my point. We can use any Pokemon we want as a base, or even use four or five if we deem it neccessary.

    In hindsight, mentioning UU probably just made my concept more confusing than it needed to be. I included it to clarify what the Capmon should look like at the end, but obviously it failed in that regard. I'll edit that bit out.

    So I hope that clarified my concept for you yilx. Keep the comments/criticism coming!!!

    EDIT: I tightened up my Justification and Description for clarity. Check em out!
  26. GlassAbsol

    GlassAbsol

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    forestflamerunner

    I feel that the issue with your clarification now is that you're trying to put far too much into the concept of the pokemon. Firstly, you state that "if [pokemon] was banished to ubers, our CAP would shine" this is a difficult place to start because if you are modelling a CAP of the concept of another pokemon, the process will be incredibly dull. Next you try and cover this by stating that it has lots of different niches and this gives it a surprise factor. This makes the process far more complex. Then we have to make a competitively viable, NEW niche for the pokemon which also is what it needs to stay viable in OU. There are plenty of cases of unpredictability in Pokemon but they are often based around basic models which means they are harder to counter than other more fixed versions of that model, whether it be utility counter/sweeper/wall etc. however what you're leaning towards is a CAP that we base off current Pokemon, rendering the CAP a little bland, and then adding an additional niche, all while trying to keep it viable, and presumably with stats and movepool to account the versatility, not overpowered. I think the process, would be dull, difficult and the CAP would be a bit of a clusterfuck.

    Yilx, same as last time. I really liked it then, I really like it now.

    Base Speed, I'm struggling to get my head round how you can prepare a pokemon around human errors. It seems like the finished product would be terribly hit and miss. Surely mistakes should be capitalized on by the player and the team as a whole. I don't think that a single pokemon can make up for what a team and a player should do. And high level players would be doing anyway.

    SubwayJ, I'm very interested by your concept, I think that the questions raise some good points for discussion and that it's interesting, but not too difficult to get unwieldy.

    Deck Knight, I think yours is another really good concept. There are some good revenge killers but they all tend to have some fatal flaws that make them not as useful as they should be, or better suited in different roles.
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