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CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 1
- Thread starter cyberzero
- Start date
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Deck Knight's Para-busing tank currently has my support.
The Pivot Point is also very interesting.
Incidentally, was my suggestion considered too similar to sbc's Anti-stall?
The Pivot Point is also very interesting.
Incidentally, was my suggestion considered too similar to sbc's Anti-stall?
We are not altering the Order of Events to suit any particular concept. If a concept REQUIRES a certain order of operations, then the Concept is ILLEGAL. A legal concept, by definition, does not dictate any decisions or order.
In the end, there are a certain number of aspects to a pokemon, and they all must be decided before we are done. The order we have now, is not the "perfect" order, but it is the order that we have determined that seems to work best for all the various goals, limitations, and inherent factors associated with a community project like this. We're not changing it in the middle of a CAP project.
Regardless of the Concept we choose, the Typing and Ability need to work well together to produce a good pokemon. I agree with you that, if EM's concepts wins, the chosen ability will be very important -- but it's ALWAYS important. Is it more important than the other aspects? Heck, I don't know, and I'm not going to argue about it.
If EM's concept is chosen -- then we will pick a "neglected ability" when the time comes. If you want to find out when that time will come -- please check the Order of Events. But it will not be first -- nor does it need to be.
zarator's Kingdra of the Snow
I'll cast my vote for zarator's Kingdra of the Snow.
Elevator Music's Neglected ability
I liked Elegy of Emptiness' Anti trick but this one posed more interesting
I liked Elegy of Emptiness' Anti trick but this one posed more interesting
Plus and Mag's Pivot Point
Indeed, I had considered Concept Assessment as I was writing that post, but only as a place to decide what to do with the placement of the Ability selection in the process; it wouldn't really help beyond that, IMO.
Sure, discussion could be held on what ability to go with in the Discussion thread. But without an actual change of events, such discussion would not end up achieving anything. I've been a part of CAP since Stratagem, so I've been able to see the results of the Concept Assessment step (and the related Counters discussion step, which is meant to serve a similar purpose in attempting giving the community focus on an aspect of the project. From what I've seen, they haven't been terribly effective in their goals; in CAP7, for example, the Concept Assessment step did not resolve the issue of what an "Ultimate Scout" should be. Throughout the bulk of the project, there was still debate over whether a scout should be able to sweep relatively well, and whether a scout's goal should be to cause switches or something else.
The Counters discussion is better, but it still has a bit of a problem unifying the community behind a goal. For example, there was some general consensus reached on Arghonaut as a result of the discussion, but there was still a bit of debate on whether a few things should counter Arghonaut or not in the Movepool discussion threads.
As a result, I'm a bit skeptical of the ability of the Concept Assessment step to serve as enough of a guiding light to unify the community behind a common ability, prior to the actual ability discussion being held. There will probably be a few really popular ideas that develop, but I highly doubt an actual consensus being reached, based on the previous results of the step. As a result, we'd wind up going into Typing without an actual single guiding light to lead us. From there, the ability will end up being affected by the typing that's decided, and not the other way around, as it should be with such a concept.
Now, it's possible that I could be wrong, and the community could wind up unifying behind an idea much better than I'm imagining. But based on prior results of the steps that are supposed to unify that, I'm skeptical of the ability of the step to bring about the unity needed, and thus prefer one of the other concepts, which don't need quite as much focus and unity on the later steps to be achieved in steps such as Concept Assessment.
All right, I can understand not having the Order of Events being altered just for a single concept right in the middle of the concept itself, so I won't bring that up again if EM's concept does indeed win.DougJustDoug said:
Anyway, you are quite right in saying that ability is always important, as are all other parts of a Pokemon. However, with EM's concept, it's not simply an important part of the concept, like any other step: it is the concept. The ability is the focal point, the driving force, the glue of the concept. With the concept being chosen, and ability not being chosen first, we'd have no actual unified view of the concept during the Typing step and would thus be shooting in the dark, grabbing at whatever we can without a light to see what we're actually holding on to. Luckily, this blindness will only last during the first step of the procedure. However, the fact that it's there at all displays to me that this is not a concept that we should be seeking, at least not at the present time, as it's not one we can optimally fulfill and realize. There are numerous concepts that won't leave our vision at all obscured during the beginning of the process and thus I surely hope we choose one of them, so that we can create the best product for CAP8 as we possibly can.
But, I suppose I must digress. CAP is ultimately a community-driven activity. Thus, if the members of the community want to try to push themselves and the process to more towards their limits by selecting such a concept, then that is what will ultimately happen, no matter what people such as myself may say about it. As a result, if such a scenario indeed occurs, I will be respectful and accepting of the community's decision and help the process to go as smoothly as possible, as should be expected, especially since I do find EM's concept to be quite interesting, despite my concerns over how effective it will be.
Due to this, I will now drop the subject and not pursue it any farther, and simply with EM and all of the other people who submitted concepts the best of luck.
Icebug's Bad, but in a good way
Joatmon's Tag Team Partner
Imo this is how we would learn the most about the metagame. I don't see the logic in pivot point since generally balanced "Counter Pokemon with Pokemon" teams sit around and do nothing, so what would a Pokemon based around that concept accomplish?
Imo this is how we would learn the most about the metagame. I don't see the logic in pivot point since generally balanced "Counter Pokemon with Pokemon" teams sit around and do nothing, so what would a Pokemon based around that concept accomplish?
KD24's Infinite Attack
KD24's Infinite Attack
I really like cyberzero's Leave a Legacy concept. I'll cast that for my vote.
Quite a few excellent choices, but I think I'll vote for Princess_power's Tempest. I love the idea of a good Castform, something that could really make weather-based teams more variable. I also really liked the Leave a Legact and "Snow Kingdra".
icebug Bad, but in a Good Way
cyberzero's Leave a Legacy
Elevator Music's Neglected Ability
Because I'd like it so much if things like Solar Power got some attention...
Because I'd like it so much if things like Solar Power got some attention...
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