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CAP 12 CAP1 - Part 5a - (Ability Discussion)

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by reachzero, Mar 15, 2011.

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  1. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse

    Jul 11, 2010
    what's the Ideas for Magic mirror? This can wreak opponents teams, preventing the use of taunt, SR/spikes, Spore, T-wave or Will-o-wisp, among many others...

    I think Magic Mirror is definately an Idea...
  2. bubbly


    Dec 4, 2009
    Serene Grace I hate and completely disagree with, basically. Plus, you're then getting way too much like Togekiss, with similar stats, the same two attacks, and ability.

    Intimidate is good, but really doesn't help at all vs special attackers. However versus physical attackers, which the typing is best against, this is arguably the most suitable ability for changing momentum.

    Magic Bounce ; I guess the perfect momentum grabbing ability, esp. against defensive teams. However, it has a problem; it does very little to offensive momentum, but completely destroys most stall.
  3. Stratos

    Stratos Banned deucer.

    Aug 26, 2010
    I just wanted to say to those of us who want Magic Mirror or others to be its Dream World Ability, that this being a gen V CAPmon, the movepool or other limitations provided by a DW ability can be listed below:

    (Remember, a DW tier only exists until those abilities are actually released for use in Wi-fi. (at least as I understand it.))
  4. Paradox


    Mar 1, 2010
    My thoughts on Magic Bounce:

    First of all, this ability is amazing. There is absolutely no doubt that CAP 1 would be a fantastic momentum-shifter with an ability as powerful and useful as this one. (And I can't believe people are bringing up things about how it doesn't do enough. "However, it has a problem; it does very little to offensive momentum". Seriously, this ability is amazing against 99% of teams, especially when it doesn't come with Psychic typing.)

    This of course brings us to the #1 problem with Magic Bounce, the ability is a Pokemon in itself. I consider using this ability (and to a slightly lesser degree, abilities like Magic Guard or Unaware) ridiculous due to its potency. Between stopping Hazard support, neutralizing Taunt, reflecting Status, and more, this ability is easily one of the best in the game.

    For comparison, it has made two Pokemon – Xatu and Espeon, both of which have bad typing, bad defensive stats, and only Espeon has even decent offensive stats – rise from obscurity to relevant Pokemon in the OU metagame (though I'll admit they seem to be less common than they were at first).

    Now we want to give this ability to a Pokemon with great offensive and defensive typing, solid attack and decent speed, and the defensive stats to handle many pertinent threats of the metagame? If we do this, CAP 1 won't be the Pokemon that explored Momentum, it will be "the Brokemon that got Magic Bounce". It'd be like if we had given the Pokemon Dragon/Steel typing with very good stats all around. Sure, it would probably be fantastic for gaining momentum, but there is something to be said for skillful execution, ie making this comparable to the DPP Breloom of 5th Gen, not the DPP Salamence (which was certainly a fantastic momentum in its own right).

    tl;dr: Sure, Magic Bounce is great. It's also one of the most powerful abilities around. Do we want to approach momentum with an precise and focused approach or the subtlety of a sledgehammer? Not to mention how easily this could be broken...

    It would be nice if people addressed this point before continuing on and reposting "Magic Bounce so good, it gives momentum", which seems to be the general flow of this thread (rehashing the same points about what abilities each person likes).
  5. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Sep 30, 2010
    So basically what your saying is that there are no limitations, due to gen 5 Pokemon having no older moves to miss out on.

    However, I believe certain Pokemon get moves only through the Dream World, such as Sunflora with Earth Power. No I don't know if you can breed those moves, but if they are not normal egg moves, then we could actually make moves exclusive to the DW ability, rather than ones not compatible with it
  6. reachzero

    reachzero the pastor of disaster
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Oct 18, 2008
    Okay, thanks for contributing, everyone. The primary ability slate will be Intimidate, Regenerator, Cursed Body, and Prankster.

    Why no Magic Bounce? I thought long and hard about this and solicited the opinions of several key users, and for me the deciding factor was simply my discomfort with giving a Pokemon that already has very strong typing and stats an amazingly powerful ability like Magic Bounce. Espeon and Xatu were NU in Gen 4, and the addition of JUST Magic Bounce has single-handedly made them fairly common in Gen 5 OU. Magic Bounce simply has such massive utility that I could easily see us complaining about making CAP1 far too strong in retrospect. Although it does fit the concept extremely well, I would rather not take the chance of making CAP1 too powerful.

    Unaware is a little different, as long as we denied CAP1 reliable recovery it would probably be okay, but let's be honest, Unaware simply isn't useful on CAP1 without reliable recovery. Quagsire is extremely annoying with Unaware, and this Pokemon is substantially bulkier than Quagsire.
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