CAP 18 CAP18 - Part 9 - Complete Movepool Submissions

Status
Not open for further replies.

Korski

Distilled, 80 proof
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#1
Hello. Here in this thread, users may make complete movepool submissions for CAP18. At the conclusion of this thread, our movepool leader ginganinja will be compiling a slate of Final Submissions for the community to vote on, and the winning submission will become the official movepool for CAP18. We've had discussions on Attacking Moves and Non-Attacking Moves, and our Topic Leadership has compiled lists of Required, Allowed, and Disallowed moves that submitters must adhere to in order to make a legal Final Submission:
Final Movepool Submissions must include all of these moves; those that don't will not be considered for slating.

Façade
Frustration
Giga Impact
Hidden Power
Hyper Beam
Rest
Return
Round
Sleep Talk
Toxic
These moves are considered optional. It is up to each movepool submitter whether or not to include these moves in their Final Submissions.

Fire Blast
Aura Sphere
Hydro Pump
Lava Plume
Scald
Flamethrower
Surf
U-Turn
Flash Cannon
Power Gem
Clear Smog
Overheat
Sludge Wave

Will-O-Wisp
Memento
Healing Wish
Destiny Bond
Protect
Reflect
Stealth Rock
Pain Split
Baton Pass
Haze
Sunny Day
Rain Dance
Swagger
Heal Bell
Refresh
Aromatherapy
Substitute
These moves are banned from inclusion in Final Submissions. Movepools that include any of these moves will not be considered for slating.

Grass Moves
Air Slash
Electric Special Attacking Coverage
Dragon Special Attacking Coverage
Ice Special Attacking Coverage
Dark Special Attacking Coverage
Ghost Special Attacking Coverage
Fairy Special Attacking Coverage
Bug Special Attacking Coverage
Water Spout
Eruption
Volt Switch
Knock Off
Psyshock
Fiery Dance
Acid Spray
Belch
Other coverage moves over 80 BP
Sludge Bomb

Calm Mind
Quiver Dance
Rock Polish / Agility etc
Shell Smash
Growth
Nasty Plot
Tail Glow
Taunt
Reliable Recovery
Hazard Removal (Defog, Rapid Spin)
Parting Shot
Wish
All Boosting Moves
CounterCoat
Kings Shield
Light Screen
Trick / Switcheroo
Hazards: Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Sticky Web
Ingrain
Super Fang
Status Moves including but not limited to Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Stun Spore, Spore,
Glare, Thunder Wave
Flame Charge
Sandstorm / Hail / Trick Room
Encore
Disable
Spiky Shield
Magic Coat
Topsy Turvy
Perish Song
Yawn
Roar / Whirlwind
There are also limits on the number of Restricted Moves and total moves that will be allowed in Final Submissions, as per this discussion. All Final Movepool Submissions must have no more than 29 Restricted Moves (RMs) and 60 total moves in order to be considered for slating. Information on which moves qualify as Restricted Moves, as well as general information on making a complete CAP movepool, can be found here. While this is a submission thread, discussion on work-in-progress (WIP) and Final Submissions is encouraged so that the community can make an informed decision during the polling stage.

This thread will be open for submissions and discussion as soon as ginganinja posts his opening remarks.

-------------------

CAP18 so far:

Leadership Team:

DetroitLolcat
- Topic Leader
jas61292 - Typing Leader
PttP - Ability Leader
srk1214 - Stats Leader
ginganinja - Movepool Leader

Art:

Name: Volkraken

Concept: Major Third

General Description: A Pokemon that forms an effective offensive or defensive core with two lesser-used OU Pokemon.

Justification: Cores have always been an integral part of the metagame, whether you're running Talonflame/Staraptor to brute force everything, Slowbro/Amoonguss/Heatran for Regenerator-Leftovers stalling, or a whole team of Dragons + Magnezone. We've previously explored what it takes to make a successful partnership in CAP11 (Voodoom), but the metagame (and the simulator!) has changed dramatically since Voodoom's creation. I would also like to up the ante a little bit: Instead of just one, can we now take TWO Pokemon and find their missing piece? Whether we opt to build on an established two-Pokemon partnership or choose two previously unrelated Pokemon and put them together, I think that we can certainly find a Voodoom for a more offensive time.

Questions to Be Answered:
  • How do effective cores in the current metagame differ fundamentally from the cores of previous metagames, if at all?
  • Is synergy as important (relative to power) in the current metagame as it previously has been? (That is, has power creep rendered synergy unnecessary?)
  • What differences are there between tailoring a Pokemon to two others and tailoring it to one? What else must be considered besides weaknesses and resistances?
  • How does the addition of a Pokemon to a core change what other Pokemon can be effectively run alongside the core?
  • Does Team Preview make running cores more difficult?
  • Is it possible to create a core uncounterable by a single Pokemon? (For example, Celebi/Heatran/Jellicent was a very effective BW core that got slaughtered by Tyranitar. Can a core force opponents to counter it with another core?)
  • Tagging onto the above, what is required to "counter-core" a core? What combination of offensive and defensive characteristics among "counter-core" members achieves this?
Pokemon CAP18 should threaten:

It's important that, first and foremost, we threaten the Pokemon and strategies that our core has no answer to. In general, the degree to which a Pokemon threatens Latias and Lucario should be the degree to which CAP18 threatens that Pokemon.

Ghost-type Pokemon: Aegislash, Gengar
Fairy-type Pokemon: Clefable, Mawile predominantly. Togekiss, Sylveon and Azumarill to somewhat lesser extents.
Some Fire-type Pokemon: Mega Charizard Y, Heatran, Talonflame to a much lesser extent.
Bug-type Pokemon: Scizor, Forretress, Volcarona.
Ground-type Pokemon*: Landorus-Therian, Hippowdon, Excadrill.

When I say "to a lesser extent", I mean that CAP 18 should be a threatening presence to this Pokemon, but it should not be an ultra-reliable counter. CAP18 should perform well against every Pokemon on this list, but that doesn't mean CAP18 needs to unconditionally switch into and force out these Pokemon. It should likely be able to do one or the other, but countering all of these Pokemon is neither feasible nor recommended.

CAP18 should be able to handle, either by switching in or 1v1, the Pokemon that defeat at least one of our core members that the other one cannot switch into. For example, Mega Charizard X is a Pokemon that defeats Lucario 1v1 that Latias can't switch into. If Multiscale is active, so is Dragonite. Gyarados, before it Mega Evolves, fits this bill.

*With a weakness to Ground, this will be a difficult task. We should threaten these Pokemon as well as we can, but we should not expect to counter Ground-types, but rather defeat them 1v1.

Pokemon CAP18 should be threatened by:

We should be okay with CAP 18 losing to Pokemon that the rest of our core handles well. For example, Latias is a tremendous answer to Rotom-W, and CAP18 is weak to Electric and does not have a STAB that can hit Rotom-W even neutrally. Rotom-W isn't particularly bothered by Fire- and Water-type support options, so making Rotom-W anything other than a threat to CAP18 is fitting a square peg into a round hole. Keldeo is a similar example, although Keldeo is so commonly paired with Pursuit Aegislash (the bane of this core) that it's not safe to let Keldeo counter this CAP.

Bulky Waters: Rotom-W, Keldeo to a much smaller extent.
Bulky Dragons: Latias, Latios, Goodra.
Walls with minimal offensive presence: Chansey, Blissey.

Pokemon not on either of our threatlists should be overly specifically threatening or threatened by CAP 18. Just because a Pokemon is not in the second list doesn't mean it is our prerogative to beat it. The same goes with Pokemon not in the first list: we shouldn't be expected to lose to every Pokemon that we don't threaten.
Typing: Fire / Water
Abilities: Analytic / Infiltrator / ???
Stats: 100 HP / 45 Atk / 80 Def / 135 SpA / 100 SpD / 95 Spe
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#2
O.k, so its time to start this movepool submissions thread off.

As before, I have a few housekeeping notes. Firstly, as I said before, if you want to include both Pain Split AND Substitute in your movepool, please make sure you have a damn good reason for it, since it was something specifically called out in the NAM move discussion as a worrying combination that puts the stress on some of the pokemon on our checks and counters list.

Secondly, make sure to include a good balance in your movepool submissions. I relaxed my initial limits, and I hope that doesn't encourage someone to abuse this by including the top 29 OP moves and calling it a day for a movepool submission. I listened to community advice, so don't let me down please, and remember to include solid reasoning and discussion when doing a final submission. In general, I'm looking to see how your movepool works, strengths, weaknesses, why you picked certain moves and what have you, rather than just looking at a list of moves. I know many people spend a great deal of time on their movepool submissions, so I would love to see that reflected in a final submission.

I don't have much more to say, lets get these movepool submissions coming in.
 
#3
WIP:

Required Moves
Façade
Frustration
Giga Impact
Hidden Power
Hyper Beam
Rest
Return
Round
Sleep Talk
Toxic

Optional Moves
Fire Blast
Flash Cannon
Power Gem
Overheat
Sludge Wave
Will-O-Wisp
Memento
Healing Wish
Destiny Bond
Protect
Stealth Rock
Pain Split
Haze
Rain Dance
Swagger
Heal Bell
Hydro Pump
Lava Plume
Scald
U-Turn

Restricted Moves
Aqua Jet
Aura Sphere
Counter
Extrasensory
Fake Out
Pursuit
Sucker Punch
Toxic Spikes

I feel like this movepool covers what it is supposed to without being overpowered. It has all of the required moves, obviously. Other than that, in the optional moves, I chose moves for the following reasons:

-Fire Blast: This move delivers the Fire type STAB power this Pokemon needs without the reliable accuracy of Flamethrower causing Volkraken to be too foolproof. Also, it threatens Bug types like Scizor and Forretress, along with Aegislash.
-Flash Cannon: This move allows Volkraken to threaten Fairy types super-effectively (besides Azumarill, Klefki, and Mawile), which need to be dealt with by it, seeing as they are often able to easily stop Latias and Lucario.
-Power Gem: This allows us to effectively threaten Bugs like Volcarona and Fire types like Charizard Y (which defeats Lucario with Fire, gets rid of Latias with the often Dragon Pulse, and stops Volkraken from being as effective as a water type as it could be with Drought).
-Overheat: This move would essentially be how we could take down foes which cannot be stopped by Volkraken's other moves (most likely as a last resort, or in the case where it holds a White Herb).
-Sludge Wave: Like Flash Cannon, this allows us to threaten Fairy types. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Flash Cannon has lower power, but can reliably threaten more Pokemon than a Poison type move.
-Will-O-Wisp: This allows us to spread burns and lower the physical attacking capabilities of our foes.
-Memento: This is essentially a last resort for when we cannot survive another turn or defeat the foe in that turn. Instead of perishing without success, Volkraken can lower the opponent's offenses and allow a team member to set up (like Lucario with Swords Dance).
-Healing Wish: This too, is a last resort which would allow us to give a teammate a second chance rather than having Volkraken go down in vain.
-Destiny Bond: Once again, a last chance can be helpful to a Pokemon which gets by largely on its Speed and Special Attack. This would allow Volkraken to take out one last foe before going down.
-Protect: This is an obvious choice. On top of being a move which most Pokemon can have, it lets Volkraken learn what moves the opponent has while making them lose a turn.
-Stealth Rock: This allows Volkraken to threaten Bug types and Fire types (Charizard, Talonflame, Volcarona) before they switch in and after it has fainted.
-Pain Split: This helps us when we feel that Volkraken could survive another turn and take out a foe if it had more HP and the foe's was lowered.
-Haze: This helps to stop sweeping opponents with boosting moves by returning changed stats to normal, obviously preventing disaster for Volkraken's team.
-Rain Dance: This, obviously, helps because it makes our Water type moves more powerful, helping us deal with Fire and Ground types (Sunny Day is not included because it could end up aiding enemy Fire types).
-Swagger: This would basically be for those who want to annoy their opponents into submission by making them hurt themselves while Volkraken's protect offers no hope of harming it.
-Heal Bell: This is good for supporting the team and stopping conditions like a burned Lucario or such from making it much easier to lose.
-Hydro Pump: This helps by being a high-powered STAB Water type move which helps us to take care of Ground and Fire types, but without being completely overpowered on Volkraken thanks to its lower accuracy.
-Lava Plume: This a helps us with Aegislash and Bug types like Scizor and Forretress. While it has lower power than Fire Blast, it has better accuracy and a chance to burn.
-Scald: This helps deal with Ground types and Fire types, like Hydro Pump does. It has lower power, but higher accuracy and a chance to burn. This, like Lava Plume, gives it more utility in its quest to destroy those the rest of our core cannot.
-U-Turn: This would just be for if Volkraken was playing more of a pivot role, and a situation arose where it could switch out on a predicted Electric, Rock, or Ground (etc.) moves while still causing damage.
Finally, my reasoning for the Restricted Move choices:
-Aqua Jet: This helps to take down foes which had a Focus Sash and are either faster or survived a switch in.
-Aura Sphere: This gives Volkraken more coverage and options and helps it to deal with Heatran and Excadrill if its other moves likely cannot reliably hit them.
-Counter: Basically, if we give this thing Focus Sash, on a turn where we know it will take a Ground or Rock type physical hit and it won't take down the foe with another move, we have our secret weapon.
-Extrasensory: This helps by adding coverage and allowing us to deal with Gengar super-effectively through its Poison typing.
-Fake Out: This would allow us to break Sturdy or get past a Focus Sash without taking damage.
-Pursuit: With this, we could take out a foe about to be defeated which is likely to switch out, and might even be taken out if it ends up not doing so.
-Sucker Punch: This would allow us to deal with Aegislash and Gengar to an extent, or let us have a priority move more powerful than Aqua Jet (though both are physical and therefore not the most reliable).
Edit: I took out Toxic Spikes (I somehow managed to overlook its ban). However, is Counter banned, or is it just the combination of Counter and Mirror Coat? The ladder is what I took CounterCoat to mean.
Note: I'll fix the hide/show options later and reorganize them into Egg Moves, Level Up, etc.
 
Last edited:
#4
Final Submission

Bold = RM
Italics = Outclassed/Double/Repeat

Total Moves: 52
Total RMs: 26


I had one point in mind when building this movepool: no unnecessary fluff. If a move does the exact same thing as another available move while also having a potentially harmful side-effect, I did not include it. Moves like Overheat, U-turn, and Sludge Wave are examples of this, all of which are touched on in my competitive reasoning. Flavor was entirely secondary, and you'll find that most of my reasoning for that is inane rambling. Please consider this movepool for its competitive justifications. I will say this though; If you think the lack of Overheat is an egregious flavor crime, consider that there isn't a single Water-type outside of Volcanion who learns Overheat, and he's also a Fire-type. Considering his primary type is Fire, and I designed this movepool as a Water-type primarily, it's not unreasonable for Volkraken to be unable to learn Overheat. Not to mention that Heatmor doesn't learn it, so there is an exception to the "all Fire-types learn Overheat" rule.
Total Moves: 19
RMs: 6

1: Scald
1: Baton Pass
1: Lava Plume

1: Constrict
1: Bubble
3: Leech Life
7: Smokescreen
12: Peck
16: Supersonic
19: Bubble Beam
23: Confuse Ray
28: Scald (Repeat from earlier Level Up)
32: Scary Face
35: Flame Burst (Outclassed by Flamethrower)
39: Haze
44: Hydro Pump
48: Memento
51: Flare Blitz

55: Aqua Ring
60: Inferno

Generic level up moves for Water types, Fire types, and octopi. I took inspiration mainly from Tentacruel (fellow tentacle mon), Lanturn (fellow bioluminescent mon), and Volcanion (fellow Fire/Water mon). The three moves that Volkraken learns at level 1 define what Fire/Water does: Burns things. Baton Pass is also at Level 1 because it's one of my favorite moves for the concept and fits well with moves that are learned at level 1 in general. Leech Life is a perfect move for a vampire squid, and Peck is there because squids have beaks. Smokescreen and Haze fit well with the concept of Fire/Water because it invokes the idea of steam and smoke. Scary Face should be fairy self evident. Scald is used twice because it's basically the signature of a Fire/Water type. Supersonic and Confuse Ray are present on a lot of Pokemon related to Volkraken in some way. As for RMs, there are relatively few because Level Up movepools generally don't include competitive moves often.

Total Moves: 27
RMs: 16

TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power

TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration

TM27 Return (Doubles with Frustration)
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest

TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM54 Scald (Repeat from Level Up)
TM59 Incinerate
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM68 Giga Impact
TM70 Flash
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM91 Flash Cannon

TM100 Confide
HM03 Surf
HM05 Waterfall

This is the most RM-heavy section because of all the good moves available. Aside from things like Flash and Thief, which are good moves for Volkraken to have from a flavor standpoint, this is a pretty generic Fire/Water TM pool. Overheat is excluded for competitive reasons I will mention in my competitive justification, but it still conceivably makes sense as no Water-type other than Volcanion learns Overheat, and there is one Fire-type (Heatmor) who does not.

Total Moves: 6
RMs: 4

Stealth Rock
Clear Smog

Octazooka
Water Pulse
Power Gem
Heal Bell

The egg groups I chose contain many Pokemon that Volkraken is related to, along with containing the moves I wanted to have as egg moves. Octazooka is one of my favorite flavor moves, but other than that, the egg moves became a dumping ground for the RMs I couldn't fit into level up or TMs.

Attacking RMs (14):
Scald
Lava Plume
Hydro Pump
Flare Blitz
Hidden Power
Frustration/Return
Flamethrower/Flame Burst
Fire Blast
Facade
Flash Cannon
Surf
Waterfall
Clear Smog
Power Gem

Non-Attacking RMs (12):
Baton Pass
Memento
Toxic
Protect
Rain Dance
Rest
Will-O-Wisp
Swagger
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Stealth Rock
Heal Bell

Alright, here's where my descriptions become much less inane. All selected STAB moves are obvious, and I've renounced my doubts about Lava Plume because I realize that some people may want to choose between Fire Blast + Scald or Hydro Pump + Lava Plume.

U-turn is not included because of my doubts about it earlier: it does a bit too much to Lati@s in addition to grabbing momentum. In addition, U-turn would make Volkraken a good general pivot, which distracts from use in the core. Baton Pass is a much healthier alternative, because it doesn't do the damage and allows for Substitute passing.

Speaking of Substitute, I've included that as well because the benefits of SubPass outweigh the risks of SubToxic beating our counters. SubToxic is a bad set without Pain Split anyways, and Pain Split just seems like a move designed to get around our counters while opening us up to things we're supposed to threaten.

As for coverage moves, I've excluded everything but Flash Cannon and Power Gem. Flash Cannon doesn't accomplish much that the STABs don't so there's no harm in including it, though I just as easily could have excluded it. Power Gem is essential to beat Mega Charizard X and Lum Dragonite, which walk over our core otherwise. Aura Sphere accomplishes nothing for us. (Mega)Tyranitar is already annihilated by Hydro Pump and Mega Gyarados is crippled by burn. Plus, Aura Sphere isn't helping at all if they already have boosted because they outspeed and KO Volkraken. Sludge Wave is too dangerous because it's more powerful than Analytic Fire Blast on some of our checks and counters and can screw with them.

Overheat is excluded because of this:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Abomasnow Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 215-253 (71.1 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Abomasnow Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 108-127 (35.7 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

That is way too powerful for us. Even after -2, we 2HKO Latios while he can't OHKO us back. I think the calc speaks for itself, and I can't really think of any benefit to having Overheat because Fire Blast already achieves our intended KOs. The -2 doesn't really even matter much of the time because Volkraken will constantly be switching out, so the extra damage on Latios and Latias is entirely unnecessary because Fire Blast already does a number to them. We should avoid dangerous redundancy whenever we can.

Stealth Rock and Heal Bell allow the core to be more self-sufficient. With Volkraken as the team's SR setter, the teamslot can be dedicated to actually covering more of the core's weaknesses. Stealth Rock, even with Defog Latias, is still essential for Lucario to achieve important KOs. Heal Bell is a huge relief for the otherwise status susceptible core. Paralysis in particular cripples all three members, and having a way to clear status without having to look for a member outside of the core or using one of Latias' precious moveslots is a nice boon.

Lava Plume has been brought into question, and I understand why. It basically does a half-assed job of what both Fire Blast and Will-o-Wisp are supposed to do. The reason I keep it is because of which combination of "power" STAB and "burning" STAB people would want to run. Of course, Fire Blast/Scald is going to be superior most of the time but running Hydro Pump over Scald allows Heatran to be beaten more easily, and an Aegislash at ~10% is practically dead anyways, and literally dead if it gets burned.

The role of Clear Smog, and Haze by extension, is pretty self evident. Rain Dance and Flare Blitz have no competitive value.
 
Last edited:
#5
Final Submission

I wanted to make this movepool diverse, giving interesting choices and variety to Volkraken. While the options were severely limited through the discussions, I was still left with a few moves that, while very similar in execution, still kept that variety intact, namely being Sludge Wave, Flash Cannon, Power Gem, and Aura Sphere. However, looking back through the movepool including these I decided that only Flash Cannon and Power Gem would really be "needed," and that the other two were situationally more powerful or more reliable than the STAB options given to Volkraken. The concept of this CAP is to create the perfect third part to Lucario and Latias, while allowing for their own strengths and covering their weaknesses, and letting Volkraken do all the work would be against that, favoring it over the other two.

Volkraken has a few interesting support options that it has at its disposal. Memento is included as a way to pass an advantage off to the other two in the core, netting a potential free SD from Lucario or an attack from either of them. Baton Pass is included as a passive way to switch out, leaving the entrant free of harm. I didn't include Stealth Rock as it was unnecessary - Memento would be the only forced switch from the core, sacrificing Volkraken anyway. If something is taking 25% or more from SR, it's going to die to one of the core members just due to the typing. Finally, Defog Latias completely erases SR on the opponent's side in addition to any others, so having it would be redundant. Clear Smog exists as a way to stop setup sweepers on the offensive side, which can cover what Memento cannot. Will-O-Wisp, a bread-and-butter move for any Pokemon with good bulk and a Fire typing, is present as a near-permanent marker as setup bait for Lucario or to increase the survivability of Volkraken against top physical threats.

The flavor moves are a bit standard, including some of the basics for the typing (Ember, Water Gun) and the ones relating to the design (Constrict, Mean Look). The main deviations from the rest are Needle Arm and Drill Peck, which makes reference to the spiky tentacles and beak as it (and vampire squids) have, adding a pinch of more diversity to the movepool outside of the few type options it has competitively, despite being hardly competitively useful. Some dark moves such as Thief and Quash were included for the sake of enhancing the "vampire" aspect, as were Leech Life and Astonish, which drain (Japanese name is Suck Blood) and flinch respectively.

RM
Non-RM

Physical
Special

The root of all flavor, and obscure physical moves
(18 moves, 5 RMs)

1 Memento
1 Scald
1 Peck
1 Leech Life
3 Constrict
3 Bite
5 Ember
8 Water Gun
13 Smokescreen
20 Clear Smog
26 Brine
30 Needle Arm
30 Scary Face
33 Destiny Bond
36 Camouflage
41 Dive
47 Flare Blitz
54 Hydro Pump

The level up movepool doesn't have many interesting things. I included a pattern that involves learning two flavor-oriented moves at the same level. At level 20, better moves start appearing, and some interesting choices as well. I couldn't pass up Needle Arm, since this is the next best thing to Cacturne that fits the description of the move. It's only 60 BP, not a RM, and is a physical move, so it won't see any use competitively - you'd have to run max+ Attack, be banded, and get the Analytic boost to do any viable damage to our checks/counters.

0- Atk Volkraken Needle Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 80-96 (18.7 - 22.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Analytic Volkraken Needle Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 60-72 (18.5 - 22.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Analytic Volkraken Needle Arm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 52-62 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Volkraken Needle Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 208-248 (48.8 - 58.2%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Analytic Volkraken Needle Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 162-192 (50.1 - 59.4%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Analytic Volkraken Needle Arm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 140-166 (46 - 54.6%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


The top three are the calcs for if someone slapped Needle Arm on a typical set for coverage, such as if Gastrodon was a threat they wanted to have coverage against. Not effective. The bottom three sacrifice the best qualities of Volkraken just for chances at 2HKOs on the waters. Gastrodon is the only one that does not outspeed for the 2HKO, but after one Needle Arm it most likely won't be staying in.

The fire movepool is lacking in the level up, but is highly rewarded with TMs. The severe lack of non-attacking moves (only 2) in the level up movepool emphasizes the aggressive nature of this Pokemon. Hydro Pump is repeated at level 1 and level 54, as is the tendency for evolved forms with powerful moves later in the learnset. Flare Blitz is a physical STAB option.

Smaller support options, niche offensive options, and a flavor move that works well competitively
(6 moves, 3 RMs - Water 1 and Amorphous)

Pluck
Haze
Baton Pass
Mean Look
Aqua Jet
Power Gem


Generation VI seems to have a limited egg movepool for those introduced in it, with an average of 5 moves and a max of 7 in any of them. Water 1 because of the diverse movepool among the water types in it, and Amorphous because it does have a flexible shape (and fits in - see Eelektross). Mean Look, obviously based on the false face, was unfortunately not present in any water type, but it was easy to pick out of the Amorphous group. It serves as dual flavor, adding value in trapping prey and its appearance.

Note that Pluck is available due to its TM status in Gen 5.

Pluck would only be a possible concern for Keldeo, but isn't really:

0- Atk Analytic Volkraken Pluck vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 60-72 (18.5 - 22.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery (typical set)
252+ Atk Choice Band Analytic Volkraken Pluck vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 162-192 (50.1 - 59.4%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (max attack)

Main firepower
(33 moves [32 unique], 19 [unique] RMs [Scald repeated from Level Up])

TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration

TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM33 Reflect
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round

TM50 Overheat
TM55 Scald
TM59 Incinerate
TM60 Quash
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM68 Giga Impact
TM70 Flash

TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM91 Flash Cannon

TM100 Confide
HM03 Surf
HM05 Waterfall


This is the section where most of the RMs and firepower (pun intended) of the moveset comes from. Fire Blast and Flamethrower are here, as well as Scald and Surf. Sludge Wave, U-Turn, and Flash Cannon also come from here, completing the little bit of usable coverage Volkraken gets. Not much can be said about the TMs, as most have been eliminated due to coverage restrictions and move limits. I tried to include Thief and Quash as it is intended to look menacing and can't pass up a bit of Dark flavor.

(56 moves, 27 RMs)

Attacking RMs (16):
Hidden Power
Fire Blast
Hydro Pump
Scald
Flamethrower
Overheat
Surf
Power Gem
Clear Smog
Flash Cannon

Façade
Frustration/Return
U-Turn
Aqua Jet
Waterfall
Flare Blitz

Non-Attacking RMs (11):
Protect
Rest
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Toxic
Will-O-Wisp
Rain Dance
Baton Pass
Memento
Reflect
Swagger
Destiny Bond


Overall, I wanted to make Volkraken diverse within the strict boundaries set to keep the core balanced and emphasize the other members just as much as Volkraken. While its STAB options will be the staple attacking options, it has a couple others that allow it to surprise opponents, pick off specific threats as needed, and support Lucario and Latias through U-Turn and Baton Pass. Its support options help cripple the enemy to transition to another core member when Volkraken has served its purpose and cannot do as well as the others.
 
Last edited:

jas61292

used substitute
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
Moderator
#6
Final Submission

Overview

With this movepool, the main thing I have tried to do is put complete focus on our goal of blasting switch-ins. While, with our stats, types and abilities, there is plenty we could do, with the right move, the direction we sought out so far was to punish switches, in order to put pressure on the things that threaten Latios and Lucario, as well as to soften things up for a Lucario sweep. Yet, with the tools we have, doing this is not that hard, and so I did not want to make Volkraken so good at its job that it did not want support from the rest of the core. So, I decided to make sure that, while it was good at its job, it would be fairly predictable at it. Thus, coverage is only given as absolutely needed, and supportive options that would allow for working strategies that do not fit in this basic mold are not included.


* = Restricted Move
+ = Repeated Move
~ = Competitively equivalent to an earlier move

00 Clear Smog*
00 Inferno
00 Astonish
00 Smog
00 Bubble
00 Constrict
05 Ember
10 Focus Energy
16 Aqua Jet*
19 Flame Wheel
23 Bubble Beam
28 Endure
34 Scald*
37 Lava Plume*
41 Memento*
46 Dive
52 Flail
59 Hydro Pump*
67 Inferno+

6 Restricted Moves
18 Total Unique Moves
Level Up move flavor was mostly kept as basic as possible. I didn't want to try and throw in any moves that would require significant knowledge of that base creature to understand. As such, most moves are just typical fire or water moves. The progression of these moves is also pretty standard, starting with 40 BP moves, and working its way up to the the 60s, then 80, and eventually a pair of 100+ BP offensive capstones, with STAB moves coming in pairs each time, one after the other. In addition, there are a two less useful STABs thrown in there as well, which I will talk about shortly, that have good flavor, but are not traditional straight damage moves, and so are not paired up like the others.

With that said, there are a couple moves that I want to just briefly talk about.

First of these is Aqua Jet. While, as a water type, there is not really anything obscure about this, I think it fits a vampire squid pretty well. Vampire squid can swim quite fast for their size, and accelerate to top speed quickly, yet they do not have great stamina. I think this is represented well by a priority move like this. Secondly is Dive. Vampire Squid live over 2000 feet under the sea, so having Dive in level up makes perfect sense. Finally, Inferno is less about the base species and more to do with the more sinister nature that people seem keen to ascribe to this Pokemon based on what I have seen in name submissions and on IRC. The fact that it is a great capstone move for a fire type only helps. As for the rest of the moves, they are mostly just basic fire or water flavor, or inspired by Octillary or Malamar's movepool.

I also made sure, when structuring the level up pool, to have Inferno as a move one could get from the move relearner. It is a common trait of gen 6 fully evolved Pokemon to have their most iconic high level moves available from the relearner, in addition to relearner only moves, such as, in this case, Clear Smog. The actual level progression was inspired by fellow fire mollusk Magcargo, though with some levels slightly moved up and down to get a unique pattern.

TM06 Toxic*
TM10 Hidden Power*
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect*
TM18 Rain Dance*
TM21 Frustration*
TM27 Return~
TM32 Double Team
TM33 Reflect*
TM35 Flamethrower*
TM38 Fire Blast*
TM42 Facade*
TM44 Rest*
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM50 Overheat*
TM55 Scald+
TM59 Incinerate
TM61 Will-O-Wisp*
TM68 Giga Impact
TM70 Flash
TM84 Poison Jab*
TM87 Swagger*
TM88 Sleep Talk*
TM90 Substitute*
TM91 Flash Cannon*
TM100 Confide
HM03 Surf*
HM05 Waterfall*

19 Unique Restricted Moves
30 Total Unique Moves
Once again here, there is not a ton of unexpected moves. You have all the typical required moves, plus all the common Fire and Water moves. In fact there are only a few moves that are here solely for flavor. First of these is Thief, which is simply a common move on all sorts of things, from bugs to monkeys to fish. I didn't really want to include any Dark moves that were more powerful, but I liked the flavor, and Thief is common, so I thought it was a good fit. Flash, as well as the slightly more competitive Flash Cannon, were put in as a reference to the bioluminescence of vampire squid. Finally, Poison Jab was thrown in to give a bit more type diversity. Poison is a type I already had a few moves of in level up, and Poison Jab is on all kinds of Pokemon. Also, with all those tentacles there is plenty for it to jab with.

Eerie Impulse
Fire Spin
Octazooka
Power Gem*
Tickle
Wrap

1 Unique Restricted Moves
6 Total Unique Moves
The egg moves I chose are almost entirely flavor. Eerie Impulse is a fun move that fits in with the creepy theme on the vampire side of vampire squid. I also like how it is a move also possessed by Lanturn that is another deep sea Pokemon (although Volkraken can only get it through Wooper, and not Lanturn directly). Octazooka is the perfect flavor move, in my opinion. While I don't want to take a former signature move as a level up move, we have 8 tentacles and are very similar to Octillery, so it makes an awesome egg move. Fire Spin and Wrap are just obvious flavor moves that don't take a lot of explaining, while Tickle is a silly little move possessed by a lot of different things, including fellow mollusk Omastar, and is a common egg move.

As for the egg groups, I decided on Water 1 and Amorphous for a few reasons. First, I wanted it in at least one water egg group since it is a water type, after all. As Octillery was in Water 1 and 2, and decided to have one of those. At the same time, I wanted it to share an egg group with the other Fire mollusk, Magcargo, which meant putting it in Amorphous. This worked out well, to me, since that group is filled with all sorts of things, some similar ecologically, while others very different ecologically, but very similar in their intangible theme. I ended up settling on Water 1 for the other since that was the egg group combo of Gastrodon, another mollusk.

Special Offensive RMs:

Clear Smog
Fire Blast
Flamethrower
Flash Cannon
Lava Plume
Hidden Power
Hydro Pump
Overheat
Power Gem
Scald
Surf


Non-Attacking RMs:

Memento
Protect
Rain Dance
Reflect
Rest
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Swagger
Toxic
Will-O-Wisp


Overall Totals:
26 Restricted Moves
53 Total Moves
Reliable STABs: To be more specific, what I mean here is the group of Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Lava Plume, Surf, Hydro Pump and Scald. While I don't think there is too much controversial about any of the reliable STAB moves, I do think that each individual one is important in their own right, so I want to take a bit to address them. Fire Blast and Hydro Pump are the pure power options, and when talking about how we want to punish switches, they are the most important moves. Not a lot can switch into the sheer power of this pair, and that is exactly why we chose the stats that we did. Fire Blast is especially notable for being able to get the KOs on Aegislash that we so desperately desire. Scald and Lava Plume allow us to go a somewhat different route, while still going for the same goal. These moves punish switches, not by their sheer power, but by having decent power along with threatening burns. They won't break things on their own, and won't let us get by anything that we weren't already able to blast through with Hydro Pump or Fire Blast, but they trade damage for potentially making things easier on teammates. Finally, Flamethrower and Surf are the middle of the road options. Generally inferior as the lack power or a good effect chance, but are very reliable, and could serve as a back up STAB along side the more powerful options.

Overheat: As already mentioned, possible the biggest goal that we had with our stats and abilities was punishing switch ins. Overheat does that like nothing else, in exchange for a huge loss of momentum. A few things that might consider switching into Fire Blast or Hydro Pump might just be overcome by this move. However, the increase in power is very rarely actually all that important. The Special Attack drop caused by the move makes it so that two Overheats is usually going to be much weaker than two Fire Blasts, so I don't really see its power as being a real negative thing at all. What's more, this movepool lacks any significant coverage moves, meaning it will never be able to follow up a nuking overheat with anything more powerful than another momentum killing overheat. Additionally, the movepool lacks switching moves, so if Overheat fails to do what was intended, it is forced into a cold switch. I believe that because of these facts, Overheat will almost always be an inferior choice to Fire Blast.

Power Gem: This is the only move in the entire movepool that I would really tout as good coverage. On our list of things we want to be threatened by are special Dragons, so we don't want anything hitting them hard. At the same time, physical Dragons, notably Dragonite, are problems for our core. Rock coverage hits almost every one of the common physical attacking Dragons harder than any of our other attacks could, while at the same time being weaker than our best STABs against special dragons. Additionally, Mega Charizard Y can also be a problem for the core, with good special bulk, SE STAB on Lucario, and Drought, which weakens what would normally be a super effective Water move. However, Power Gem utterly destroys it. There is literally nothing it hits that we do not want to hit, there is almost nothing that we want to threaten that both resists our STABs and is not weak to Power Gem. The perfect coverage move, in my opinion.

Clear Smog: While I just said that there is almost nothing we want to threaten that both resists our STABs and is not weak to Power Gem, almost nothing is not nothing. In fact, it is Azumarill. While Azumarill is not the biggest thing we need to worry about, as we can threaten burns, for a pure offensive set, Clear Smog will hit Azumarill harder than any other option we have. It also serves as a neat utility move against boosters or Baton Pass teams. It is also a rare supportive option that can even be used on a Choice or Assault Vest set. Its not all that notable as Volkraken is generally better off just craking things with its STABs, and the power bonus, even over a not very Effective STAB is not that large. Even so, it is a useful option to have, and not harmful to any of our check or counters in the least.

Flash Cannon: Despite the fact that this move hits Fairies, something we want to threaten, Super Effectively, Flash Cannon is really a rather unremarkable move. It is weaker than a STAB Fire Blast, even when it is one step more effective, and it is only neutral against Azumarill, the only fairy to resist both our STABs. It could see use on a choice set wanting a more reliable way to hit fairies, but in general, it is not all that useful at all. It is, however, quite flavorful, and, with no real negatives for our concept, it makes a lot of sense to include it.

Will-O-Wisp: Of all the support moves, I think Wisp is by far the most important. To keep with the theme I have set so far, Wisp does a wonderful job of threatening switch ins. The fact is that residual damage sucks for anything, and the only things immune to burn are fire types that don't want to switch into Volkraken. While it may be hard to justify using any status inflicting move when packing as much power as we are and lacking recovery, if we ever were to want to do so, burn would be the way to do it. Additionally, as mentioned before, burns are the best thing we have for shutting down Azumarill, who can otherwise be quite threatening to our core. Wisp also can be useful should you opt for Infiltrator over Analytic, allowing you to burn thing that might think you are substitute bait (if such a thing exists) or that is predicting a switch.

Substitute: Frankly, I don't think there is that much to say about Substitute, as my movepool lacks the necessary moves to really abuse it. Certainly getting up a Sub on a switch qualifies for "punishing switches," but the fact is, Volkraken would have little to do once it Subs up. It can't carry any obscure coverage moves, so Sub isn't helping ease prediction, and it lacks recovery of any kind, so it can't really help stall out its counters or anything. Its not a terrible move, but when the best thing it is doing is letting you get a second pathetic attack off against Chansey before being forced out, its not really a big deal. As always, Substitute is a great move, but I just don't think it is anything all that special here.

Toxic: Everything gets Toxic, but not many things use it, and I do not believe that, with this movepool, Volkraken would be one of those things. Spamming STABs will almost always be a better option, and when you take into account that you will often be coming in on Aegislash, its just downright risky for no good reason. You might worry what it can do in conjunction with Substitute, but without any way to recover health, it is not stalling anything out for long.

Reflect: This move is not one I expect to see get much use, but I think it meshes well with what we want to do. Everything we want to be checked by either does damage with special attacks or via status or set damage moves. On the other hand, multiple things we want to threaten are physical attackers. While Reflect is not generally the best way to stop these Pokemon, it is a usable option. What's more, Reflect helps give setup opportunities for Lucario. That alone is not all that amazing, as generally when providing that kind of setup support, you want dual screens, but in conjunction with everything else we have, it helps provide that kind of support in a way more beneficial to Lucario than most others.

Memento: Speaking of supporting setup, Memento is the king of that. Of course, it comes at the cost of your own life. Obviously all set up sweepers love this king of support, but when you have something this powerful, it is only going to want to use it if it knows it will end the battle. That is where I see it as an advantage for the core. Lucario's big draw is Extremespeed allowing to bypass everything, and completely finish weakened teams. It is only in the situations where Lucario can do what Lucario does better than anyone else that Volkraken will ever want to use Memento in the first place.

Weather Moves: Rain Dance and Sunny Day seem to have a lot of potential to be scary as they increase the power of our amazing STABs even more. However, I don't think either is actually all that great, as each one weakens a STAB, and in the time it takes to set them up, you will already have something threatening you. Since manual sun is not really that good in the first place, and manual rain is hindering to Volkraken as it nerfs arguably its most spammable move in Fire Blast, I don't really see much harm in having either of these moves.


Notable Exclusions

Sludge Wave: Despite my vote to allow this move, after much though, I decided that it was best not to include it in my movepool. This is not because I think the move is too powerful, but because I think that, while Volkraken should be punishing switches, it should be doing so in a very predictable way. Thus, any non STAB move that is our best move against a Pokemon that we do not want to threaten is not something I wanted to include. Sludge Wave's ability to hit Keldeo, Latios and Latias stronger than our STABs is not something that meshed with this ideal that I tried to keep to.

U-Turn: Momentum is always good to keep, and getting switch advantage on you side is always great. However, the design intent so far with this Pokemon has been to let us nuke switches. Passing switch advantage to a teammate is not really following with that goal. What is more, I like the ability to super nuke things with Overheat, but I want such a power to come with the risk of a cold switch. Allowing U-Turn lets us get in at least some chip damage for free, all while scouting the opponent. What's more, on faster Pokemon like Latias, it lets our Specially bulky CAP take the hit, allowing a more frail Pokemon a free switch. Since this eliminates one of the major downsides of Overheat, without really any negatives of its own, and without any major detrimental effect on switch-ins like we want, I don't see a good reason to include it.

Pain Split: Unreliable as it may be, healing is not something that I am particularly interested in for Volkraken. Our role is not so much about our own survivability, so much as it is about destroying the survivability of others, and wasting time on a move that will not even cripple most opponents that much in order to survive longer is not what I believe we should be doing. More importantly though is the fact that I do not believe such a move would ever even be useful, except in situations where we should be outright losing. With base 100 HP, it takes a high HP opponent for us to even heal a mediocre amount. The only time we are healing enough for it to really be worth it is against things like Chansey and Blissey, who are supposed to be hard counters. What's more, in combination with Substitute and Toxic, Pain Split can pretty much allow us to beat all our counters. Not only is that obviously bad, but in order for something so bad to even be possible, we must be running a set that doesn't even do the switch punishing job we should be doing. Pain Split might not be the only move needed for such a negative result, but it is by far the most unnecessary to have.

Stealth Rock: The reason for this exclusion was pretty much that I think Volkraken has better things to be doing than setting hazards. While it could be argued that you punish switches by getting up hazards, with Latias being all about Defog, and our build so far being all about direct damage, I don't think SR really fits in that well, and is something best left to a 4th teammate. Simply put, it just doesn't really mesh with my vision for this movepool, and, while I don't particularly see that much wrong with it, there was no real positive justification I could think of that would make me include it.

Baton Pass: To put things simply, I don't see why Volkraken should be passing anything. We have no desire to be part of Baton Pass chains, and, passing Substitutes, which is all we really can pass, are not incredibly helpful to our core. In addition, I don't really want to provide any more incentive for using Substitute than is necessary. While Sub Toxic might not beat Chansey without Pain Split, letting us get in a Toxic on them and then pass out for a free switch in is not all that much better in my mind. No matter how it is being used though, Baton Pass would sets would have Volkraken playing in an entirely different manner than the intended "nuke the switch" path, and that is not something I am looking to encourage.
 
Last edited:

Deck Knight

RIP (Ultra)Space Dragon
is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
CAP Head Mod
#7
Final Submission:

- Inferno
- Rock Blast*
- Leer
- Ember
- Wrap
6. Acid
10. Bubble Beam
14. Fire Spin
18. Will-O-Wisp*
22. Gastro Acid
25. Lava Plume*
28. Octazooka
34. Smokescreen
40. Clear Smog*
46. Baton Pass*
52. Flare Blitz*
58. Memento*
64. Hydro Pump*

RMs: 8 / Moves: 18


Level-up swipes the actual levels and build-up from Octillery, and provides a flavorful mix of progressively more powerful special attacks, smoke attacks, and status moves. The competitive highlights of this list are Will-O-Wisp, Lava Plume, Clear Smog, Memento, and Hydro Pump.

Group: Water 1 / Water 2

Aqua Jet*
Aqua Ring
Camouflage
Lock-On
Psybeam
Soak
Stealth Rock*

RM: 2 / Moves 7


Legalities:

Aqua Jet + Aqua Ring + Soak: Alomomola
Aqua Jet + Aqua Ring + Stealth Rock: Empoleon
Aqua Jet + Psybeam + Soak: Golduck
Aqua Jet + Stealth Rock: Kabutops / Carracosta
Aqua Ring + Psybeam + Soak: Lumineon / Lanturn
Camouflage + Psybeam: Malamar
Camouflage + Stealth Rock: Corsola / Stunfisk
Lock-On + Psybeam + Soak: Octillery


Same Egg Groups as Octillery, with a fair bit of overlap. Of special note here even though it isn't an RM, is Psybeam, which is useful for several Pokemon that otherwise give its best coverage options (Fire/Water/Poison/Steel) a hard time. The two notable actual RMs here are Baton Pass and Stealth Rock, though I suppose you could use Aqua Jet to thwart Sucker Punches.

TM:

06 Toxic*
10 Hidden Power*
11 Sunny Day
15 Hyper Beam
17 Protect*
18 Rain Dance*
21 Frustration*
23 Smack Down
27 Return -
32 Double Team
33 Reflect*
34 Sludge Wave*
35 Flamethrower*
38 Fire Blast*
42 Façade*
44 Rest*
45 Attract
46 Thief
48 Round
50 Overheat*
55 Scald*
59 Incinerate
61 Will-O-Wisp -
68 Giga Impact
70 Flash
87 Swagger*
88 Sleep Talk*
90 Substitute*
91 Flash Cannon*
100 Confide
H1 Cut
H3 Surf*
H5 Waterfall*

RM: 19 / Moves: 32


I pulled a lot of the flavor moves here from Octillery as well, including moves like Smack Down. What's obviously most important here is the coverage and support options. The strongest coverage move Volkraken has is Sludge Wave, and the TM Learnset also features Overheat and Flash Cannon. I strongly believe both of these moves are necessary to make an Inflitrator set viable, or even more defensive sets by netting that swift OHKO on Aegislash.

Support-wise, Will-O-Wisp is repeated from Level-up and Volkraken has both weathers and Reflect. Reflect I think is especially important to give Latias a chance to Defog without becoming total Pursuit bait, and also sets up Lucario well to use his 4x rock resistance that Volkraken lures.

Total: RM 29 / Moves: 57

Offense as a Whole:
The driving idea behind our typing and ability selection was the ability to switch into Aegislash and offer an ultimatum between losing Aegislash and ripping the shreds out of a potential switch. As such my offensive movepool contains STAB coverage, Flash Cannon as an accurate way to hit Fairies, and Sludge Wave as the ultimate risk/reward move. If it's used against Aegislash it will backfire, but Sludge Wave also does the most damage to generic switchins that resist Fire and Water. Interestingly though, Sludge Wave does poorly against the Ground types we want to beat 1-on-1, but not necessarily check or counter. For this reason I don't even have so much as any other decently powered special coverage move outside the aforementioned Flash Cannon.

Support as a Whole:
Volkraken's support has the most relevant move selections for this core. Because of the attacks Volkraken lures, Reflect sets up Lucario for a switch into Rock Attacks, allows Latias to take the brunt of Mold Breaker Excadrill's Earthquake, and Volkraken's weakness to Electric is mostly addressed by Latias in Latias's type and stats alone.

Memento is the perfect move to set up a Lucario sweep, as Lucario needs the offenses opponents severely weakened to pull it off. While other sweepers can take advantage of it, naturally, none of them can do so quite as well as Lucario because of its Swords Dance boosted Extremespeed. Combined with Stealth Rock for chip damage to get foes in Extremespeed range, Memento provides that golden opportunity.

Finally, Baton Pass. Drypassing allows Volkraken to be the pivot necessary to scout out attacks and get Lucario in safely, or give Latias an opening to use Defog on something it can wall. As Volkraken lacks any stat-boosting moves of its own, the only thing it can pass is 101HP Substitutes, which are useful for both Lucario and Latias to deal with the blobs without getting statused or damaged.
Special RMs:
Overheat
Fire Blast
Flamethrower
Lava Plume
Hydro Pump
Surf
Scald
Sludge Wave
Clear Smog
Flash Cannon
Hidden Power

Physical RMs:
Flare Blitz
Waterfall
Aqua Jet
Rock Blast
Facade
Frustration = Return

Support RMs:
Baton Pass
Memento
Protect
Rain Dance
Reflect
Rest
Sleep Talk
Stealth Rock
Substitute
Swagger
Toxic
Will-O-Wisp


Flavor:

I wanted to play off a lot of themes from bio-luminescent and ocean bottom dwelling creatures. Since volcanic vents also vent extremely powerful toxic gasses, a significant number of Volkraken's moves are poison-based. Bio-luminescent creatures can also change colors, so Camouflage is a perfect egg move, and I feel like Soak is a good counterpart with no real competitive implications. I also wanted to emphasize the ability of these creatures to regenerate, so Volkraken has both Refresh and Aqua Ring. And of course, with the Octopus connection I couldn't ignore having Octillery contribute to its Egg Moves in a unique way, granting it Lock-On for its Lv0 Inferno and a bit of Octillery's unique beam arsenal. That's also the source of moves like Smokescreen, Clear Smog, and even Aqua Jet to an extent, as blasting the ink out also grants some propulsion. Naturally, things like Flash and Flash Cannon are part of the movepool.
Notable Flavor moves (unique or differentiating, non RMs):
Acid
Aqua Ring
Camouflage
Fire Spin
Gastro Acid
Inferno
Octazooka
Psybeam
Smack Down
Smokescreen
Soak
Sunny Day
Wrap



Conclusion:

I take a lot of pride in giving my movesets the tools they need to be successful. I have selected the combination of competitive and flavor moves I feel do Volkraken justice, and also allow it to maximize support to this specific core. Both of its abilities will be useful, with Analytic being the superior of the two in general usage but Infiltrator having the offensive tools it needs to bring out its niche uses.

_ _ _ _ _
Postscript Note: I've decided, based on subsequent posts that Pain Split in conbination with other moves causes too many headaches, but I've decided to keep this scenario for posterity.
I might as well clear the air on this. Here's a play-by-play of the mighty SubSplit against the blobs, assuming Volkraken is already in and Subs as they come in, and it isn't holding Lefties so as to maximize Pain Split effectiveness aka best case scenario:

Volkraken: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe @ Mystic Water, Sub/Split/Toxic/Scald [404 HP] (This set is selected because Heatran doesn't hard counter it, and it has more PP)
Blissey: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Bold [714 HP] Standard set.

Turn 1:
Volkraken Sub [31PP] (303 HP + Sub)
Blissey switches in. (714 HP)

Turn 2:
Volkraken Toxic [15PP]
Blissey Toss [31PP]
(1 HP left on toss), Lefties and Toxic cancel HP damage

Turn 3:
Volkraken Pain Split [31PP] ([303 + 714]/2 = 508 HP.)
Blissey Toss [30PP] (Sub is broken), Lefties heals 44 HP. [Blissey 552]

Turn 4:
Volkraken Sub [30PP] (303 HP)
Blissey Toss [29PP] (1HP Left in Toss). Blissey heals 44 HP. [Blissey 596]

Turn 5:
Volkraken Toxic [14PP]
Blissey Toss [28PP] (Sub breaks)
Toxic/Lefties neutralize.

Turn 6:
Volkraken Scald [23PP] (Average damage 150)
Blissey Softboiled [15PP] (back to full health) [670 after Toxic - Lefties]

Turn 7:
Volkraken Sub [29PP]
Blissey Toss [27PP] (1HP Left on Sub) [582 After Toxic damage]

Turn 8:
Volkraken Split [30PP] (202 + 592 = 392)
Blissey Heal Bell [6PP] (Blissey at 436)

Turn 9:
Volkraken Scald [22PP] (Average damage 150, Burns for sake of argument)
Blissey Toss [26PP] (Sub Breaks) (Blissey 242 overall HP]

Turn 10:
Volkraken Sub [28 PP] [291 HP behind Sub]
Blissey Softboiled [14PP] (555 HP after Burn]

Turn 11:
Volkraken Split [29PP] ([291 + 555]/2 = 423)
Blissey Toss [26PP] (1HP Sub left) [379 After Burn]

Turn 12:
Volkraken Scald [21PP] (Average damage 150)
Blissey Softboiled [13PP] (542 Ending HP after Burn and Softboiled)

Turn 13:
Volkraken Scald [20PP] (Average Damage 150)
Blissey Toxic [15PP] (348 Ending HP)

Turn 14:
Volkraken Scald [19PP] (Average Damage 150)
Blissey Softboiled [12PP] (511 Ending HP)

And here, after 14 turns, we arrive at the dilemma. Volkraken is behind a Sub, so it could just keep Subbing to waste PP, but it won't be making it's Pain Split stronger. It could Pain Split, but at this stage Pain Split does less damage than Scald. It could Toxic, but that won't effect a burned Blissey that's PP stalling it. If it keeps using Scald though, Blissey will stall it out of Scald PP faster than it will run out of Softboiled PP, and Volkraken will be useless against the rest of the opponent's team. And if Volkraken uses any other move BUT Scald, Blissey can switch out and heal its status, prompting a counter or a U-turner to come in and win back some momentum or double switch.

So basically a SubSplit set can frustrate Blissey and gain a small upper hand, but all it really prompts is a stall war and a dilemma on when to use Volkraken's one attacking move. Alternatively Volkraken could use the stronger Surf, and rely on Toxic for its chip damage, but there's a problem there, too. Toxic has the same amount of PP as Softboiled, and Blissey has the option to switch out any time it doesn't suspect a Surf. Ultimately the problem is, nothing forces Blissey to use its healing or its Seismic Toss immediately, and because of its ability, it can neutralize Toxic's effectiveness and the fact Volkraken basically has to reveal its entire set to try and address Blissey. If it doesn't have Toxic, it can't even fight Blissey at all provided a competent opponent. My apologies for this massive section, but I really HAD to address the notion SubSplit is somehow a Blissey destroyer. It might best Eviolite Chansey because it doesn't have constant recovery, but it's just going to waste a lot of PP otherwise.

A much better set is actually Sub/Split/Baton Pass/Attack, but Sub-Pass is already something unto itself.
 
Last edited:
#8
22 RMs (3/5/14) (Numbers ignore the second/third/fourth/etc mention of a move and any outclassed or equivalent moves)
51 total (21/6/25) (I know these numbers don't add up. Scald is in two lists, but only counts once.)

Water: Bubble, Hydro Pump, Octozooka, Scald, Water Gun, Surf

Fire: Ember, Fire Blast, Flame Burst, Flamethrower, Incinerate, Lava Plume, Will-o-Wisp

Normal: Attract, Camouflage, Confide, Constrict, Facade, Flail, Flash, Frustration, Giga Impact, Heal Bell, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Metronome, Mimic, Nature Power, Protect, Return, Round, Sleep Talk, Smokescreen, Snore, Splash, Substitute, Wrap

Poison: Clear Smog, Sludge, Toxic, Venoshock

Rock: Ancientpower, Power Gem

Fighting: Aura Sphere

Dark: Bite, Memento, Quash

Ground: Mud Shot

Ghost: Confuse Ray

Psychic: Psybeam, Rest

Steel: Flash Cannon


--: Scald*
--: Octazooka
--: Smokescreen
--: Constrict
--: Bubble
--: Splash
5: Bite
8: Water Gun
10: Flail
13: Confuse Ray
17: Ember
20: Mud Shot
24: Flame Burst~
26: Clear Smog*
30: Mimic
33: Scald+
36: Lava Plume*
39: Sludge
41: Metronome
44: Ancientpower
49: Wrap
52: Psybeam
57: Scald+

Aura Sphere*
Memento*
Camouflage
Heal Bell*
Hydro Pump*
Power Gem*

TM06 Toxic*
TM09 Venoshock
TM10 Hidden Power*
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect*
TM21 Frustration*
TM27 Return~
TM35 Flamethrower*
TM38 Fire Blast*
TM42 Facade*
TM44 Rest*
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM55 Scald+
TM59 Incinerate
TM60 Quash
TM61 Will-O-Wisp*
TM68 Giga Impact
TM70 Flash
TM88 Sleep Talk*
TM90 Substitute*
TM91 Flash Cannon*
TM96 Nature Power*
TM100 Confide
HM03 Surf*


Nature Power: This attack does no more damage to bulky Dragons than Flash Cannon (33.7 - 40%), less damage than Fire Blast/Hydro Pump (34.7 - 41%) and much less than Sludge Wave (40.3 - 47.6%). Furthermore, it can be Taunted and provides absolutely no coverage when compared to any of the allowed attacking RMs that could take its place instead. Also, the status chance it provides is far less reliable than Scald would provide. This may be a good move, but it in no way goes against our counters any more than anything we already have.
Low Move Count: This was purposeful as to provide room to add in more moves as time goes on to provide a more thought out and balanced movepool. Since I originally posted this, I have already gone from 16 to 21 RMs. I do intend to expand my movepool further before finalizing it.
No U-Turn: I feel that this would be too hard of a hit against some of our counters (mainly Latios) when factoring the free switch it provides, essentially negating their status as a counter by putting them at the disadvantage when they switch in. It would (realistically as opposed to some ridiculous physical set) do 28.4 - 33.7% damage on Latios and allow an instant switch to something that can then defeat him with significantly more ease.
No Overheat: WAAAAY too much damage on a Specs set. It's like Choice Specs Draco Meteor is for Latios, except it has 5 more base SpAtk and an Analytic boost. Speaking of Latios, it would take 71.1 - 83.7% damage from Specs Overheat. Not really a counter after having already done that once already unless it has Roost.
Aura Sphere: Tyranitar and Mega Gyarados can destroy our core if they come in at any point where Lucario is not already in play and if Mega Gyarados hasn't yet Mega Evolved, it can possibly destroy us even if Lucario IS in play depending on prediction. Hydro Pump still does slightly more to Tyranitar, but still has lower accuracy that could cause the game to be lost due to hax. Aura Sphere provides a reliable answer to both of these theats to the overall core without affecting Blissey and Chansey as counters, doing less damage to them than STABs and only 4HKOing with Choice Specs.


Egg Groups: I chose Water 3 because it is composed mainly of aquatic invertebrates such as Omanyte (a rather close relative) and Tentacruel. I chose Water 1 because of the general diversity of the Pokemon that occupy it (although there is a clear bias towards amphibious creatures as opposed to deep sea life), as well as the presence of Octillery and Malamar. The other two options I, and clearly several others, considered are Water 2 and Amorphous. I decided against it because almost all Pokemon families in it are at least partially fish, Malamar and Wailord being the only exceptions. As far as Amorphous, I must admit that I was very tempted. It provided several appealing breeding partners (not referring to Gardevoir) and already seems to have a well established theme and flavor that would fit Volkraken wonderfully. I still believe Amorphous would make an excellent choice, but Water 1 and Water 3 simply were too... Fuck it, changing it to Amorphous/Water 3 and moving Octazooka from Egg Moves to Level Up.
Octopus/Squid based moves: Since the Vampire Squid this is based on is the only specie of its order, I decided to blur the lines to Coleoidea (octopus/squid like creatures without shells) in general. That expands the flavor to ink based attacks (Smokescreen and Octozooka), bio-luminescence based moves (Flash and Confuse Ray), toxin based moves (Toxic and Sludge), mimicry (Mimic and Camouflage) and general moves based on the anatomy of cephalopods (Wrap and Bite). Blurring distinctions between certain animals is a very common occurrence for Pokemon, such as Arbok (a cobra) exhibiting traits of several distinct species of cobra as well as the completely unrelated constrictor snakes while evolving a rattlesnake.
Type Balance: Fire/Water is, at least as I see it, is one of the most conflicting combinations possible. What one type always has, for example, the other never has. This makes choosing whether to allow certain moves difficult to determine. Thankfully, the move bans helped somewhat in this regard, such as with Ice attacks being disallowed.
Scald: If you need to ask, you don't really know Volkraken. :/


(more) Reasoning will be added later. Please point out any issues or concerns you may have with my movepool and I will do my best to address them.
Semi-Major Edit: Changed the Egg Groups
 
Last edited:
#9
WIP:

bold = RM
italics = required move
underline = duplicated

-- Inferno
-- Scald
-- Smog
-- Smokescreen
-- Constrict
-4 Tickle
-7 Water Gun
12 Haze
13 Bubble Beam
15 Mud Shot
18 Clear Smog
21 Camouflage
23 Sludge
27 Scary Face
31 Fire Spin
35 Mean Look
39 Octazooka
43 Power Gem
46 Flame Burst
48 Hydro Pump

RMs: 5
Total: 20
Aqua Jet (directly from Sharpedo, Basculin, Alomomola; chain from Qwilfish, Luvdisc)
Destiny Bond (directly from Gengar, Weezing, Wobbuffet, Qwilfish, Cofagrigus, Trevenant; chain from Mismagius, Gardevoir, Swalot, Sharpedo, Banette, Dusknoir, Drifblim, Spiritomb, Malamar, Gourgeist)
Gunk Shot (directly from Muk, Octillery, Swalot; chain from Banette)
Memento (directly from Muk, Weezing, Spiritomb, Chandelure; chain from Mismagius, Magcargo, Gardevoir, Dusknoir, Gastrodon, Drifblim, Cofagrigus)
Mist (directly from Wailord; chain from Lanturn, Gastrodon, Jellicent, Alomomola)
Refresh (chain from Alomomola)
Soak (directly from Seaking, Octillery, Lumineon, Basculin, Alomomola; chain from Lanturn, Wailord)
Spite (directly from Gengar, Mismagius, Banette, Spiritomb; chain from Weezing)

RMs: 5
Total: 8
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM34 Sludge Wave
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM50 Overheat
TM55 Scald
TM59 Incinerate
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM63 Embargo
TM68 Giga Impact
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM100 Confide
HM03 Surf

RMs: 19
Total: 29


RMs: 28
Total: 56

Currently have Volkraken in Water 2/Amorphous. Chose Water 2 pretty much exclusively because it contained both Remoraid/Octillery and Inkay/Malamar. Decided to slash with Amorphous to give Volkraken access to both the support moves it wants (Memento, Destiny Bond, etc) and Dark-type-ish flavor moves (Spite, Torment, etc).

Will give more reasonings later.
 
Last edited:

Qwilphish

when everything you touch turns to gold
#10
WIP

just posting for the idea of mine to be up

~- Aqua Jet
~- Water Gun
04- Peck
08- Ember
11- Fire Spin
15- Confuse Ray
19- Dive
22- Fury Attack
26- Slam
30- Brine
33- Lava Plume
37- Camouflage
37- Flash
41- Minimize
45- Clear Smog
48- Hydro Pump
51- Fire Blast
55- Healing Wish


Heal Bell
Haze
Constrict
Pain Split
Tickle
Water Pulse
Reflect Type

Notable Combinations:
Haze + Pain Split (Weezing)
Heal Bell + Pain Split (Mismagius)
Haze + Reflect Type + Tickle (+Water Pulse) (Tentacruel)


06- Toxic
10- Hidden Power
11- Sunny Day
15- Hyper Beam
17- Protect
18- Rain Dance
21- Frustration
27- Return
32- Double Team
33- Reflect
34- Sludge Wave
35- Flamethrower
38- Fire Blast
42- Facade
44- Rest
45- Attract
48- Round
50- Overheat
55- Scald
59- Incinerate
61- Will-o-Wisp
68- Giga Impact
70- Flash
87- Swagger
88- Sleep Talk
89- U-Turn
100- Confide

HM 03- Surf
HM 05- Waterfall
 
Last edited:

Korski

Distilled, 80 proof
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#11
Final Submission

The competitive aim of this movepool submission should be considered an exercise in restraint, since this is CAP is already uniquely powerful by stats and ability. I don’t want Volkraken to have much of an unpredictability factor, so I designed this movepool to limit the CAP to two very similar standard movesets with 2-5 viable items to choose from. This way, the opponent doesn’t have to spend too long guessing at what the CAP is going to do next and can simply react to the incoming assault. We gave this CAP specific goals at the outset of this process, and this movepool ensures it will be able to accomplish those goals without requiring a handful of checks or plausible counter-strategies for every crazy trick it can pull out of its hat. Yes, there are moves here that could find use on gimmick sets; however, they are not the sort of moves that could lure and eliminate the CAP’s own established threats, which is absolutely crucial for a Pokemon like this.

Fire Blast and Hydro Pump are the primary tools here for dishing out damage, and I predict they will be Volkraken’s go-to options 90% of the time. To make this happen, I have included only a few options for rounding out viable movesets. U-turn is included for pivoting, which is very useful for the CAP when Latias and Lucario can immediately threaten many of its common switch-ins like Keldeo, Rotom-W, Blissey, and Chansey. Offensive coverage is limited to Power Gem, Flash Cannon, and Hidden Power, all of which are marginally useful at best and supply no surprise value to the Pokemon that can already switch relatively safely into the CAP’s STAB attacks, or at least require really good prediction in the case of Hidden Power.
Fire Blast
Hydro Pump
Scald / Power Gem / Overheat
U-turn / HP - Ice


This is an easily understandable nuke/pivot set that accomplishes all of the Aegislash checking and switch-in punishing goals we’ve been pushing for since the Concept Assessment. The coverage choice in Power Gem is highly specific, not generically useful, and crucially unable to overwhelm our decided checks like Blissey, Chansey, Goodra, Keldeo, Latias, Rotom-W, and other bulky Waters, which I think is vitally important when considering our STABs hit with obscene levels of damage. U-turn is great for momentum grabbing if you don't want to get locked into the wrong move, while Hidden Power - Ice wrecks the Latis but preserves Water-types as complete resistors to the moveset.

Choice Specs versions of this set will absolutely demolish switch-ins and faster Pokemon that cannot secure the KO. Choice Scarf would make a good cleaner against opponents that aren’t bulky enough to take both an Analytic-boosted hit on the switch and a follow-up attack. Assault Vest is the third viable choice here, which would beef up the CAP’s Special Defense enough to tank a few of Aegislash’s Shadow Balls while maintaing a strictly offensive presence.
Will-o-Wisp and Scald are a tankier CAP’s best mid-game options for preparing a Swords Dance Lucario sweep (in addition to U-turn), and that’s really all it has available. Lava Plume is absent because, between Scald and Will-o-Wisp, the CAP will have plenty of opportunities to spread Burn status and I wanted to keep the focus of the Fire STAB on dishing out Aegislash KOs. A bulky Lava Plume / Scald / Will-o-Wisp set would be too generically tanky and would not support the core any more than a generic OU team; I'd rather each move on the set have a purpose so as to discourage creating a goodstuffs Burn spreader for general use. I suppose Reflect or Memento could be tacked onto a set as last-ditch options for giving the frail Lucario some breathing room against aggressive offensive teams, and as far as gimmick options go, they are at least pro-concept in that way.
Fire Blast / Flamethrower
Scald
Will-o-Wisp
U-turn / Rest / Memento


This set should be a pretty popular option for players, as it takes a more general supporting role for Latias and Lucario by spreading burns while launching Analytic-boosted STAB attacks. These moves also make Infiltrator a plausible option, as they can catch Substitute abusers off-guard and still apply the pressure that the Burn status provides. This set should be able to do a decent job of staying alive just long enough into the midgame to wear down troublesome opposing teams into +2 Extremespeed KO territory for Lucario or sacrificing itself at low enough HP to give Lucario a decent chance of setting up against aggressive offensive teams.

This set would more likely than not employ a bulkier EV spread, so Leftovers would be the preferred item for providing generic and continuous healing for teams that rely more on Volkraken’s ability to tank certain threatening blows. A second option would be Chesto Berry, in which case this set would work a lot like Rotom-W's ChestoRest set, launching attacks and spreading burns and forgoing turn-by-turn healing in exchange for a one-time full heal from damage and status.

The Movepool:

Flavor-wise, I wanted to put as much of the personality of the art design into the movepool as possible by giving the impression that the CAP is a menacing creature from the deep abyss. This idea is mostly carried out in the Level-Up list, although the Egg Moves do a lot to help out in this regard. There is for sure a “hidden third typing” present in the art design (Dark-type), so I have included a healthy amount of Dark-type moves in the movepool that reflect this sinister attitude of the art design.

Vampire squids don’t actually produce ink like other squids and octopi, instead relying on their bioluminescence for evading predators and whatnot. I think this is a very cool and unique attribute of the CAP’s design, so I wanted to emphasize Volkraken’s use of bioluminescence over more traditional cephalopod-related inky moves. As a result, the movepool is devoid of any Poison-type or ink-based moves (like Octazooka) and more focused on Volkraken’s physical traits.

The CAP’s Water typing is very present in its Level-Up pool; being an aquatic creature, I thought it was appropriate to accentuate the Water moves there, as well as in the Egg list. As far as Volkraken’s Fire-typing goes, bringing out that aspect of a deep-sea squid was actually quite difficult. I’ve excluded Lava Plume and all physical Fire-type attacks (generally because they require prolonged exposed flames or lava or whatever, as far as I imagine them working); however, the typing is absolutely present enough in the Level-Up and TM lists to bring that crucial characteristic across (I still think the CAP should be switched to Water/Fire typing, based on the art design). There are 11 Water-type moves in this movepool and 9 Fire moves, so the overall picture should appear smooth and balanced, with enough flavor enhancements to bring our vampire squid to life, so to speak.

(17 moves, 8 RMs)

0 - Constrict
0 - Flash
0 - Bite
0 - Leech Life
0 - Reflect
0 - Water Gun
4 - Reflect
9 - Water Gun
14 - Whirlpool
18 - Fire Spin
23 - Flame Burst
28 - Scald
32 - Destiny Bond
37 - Dive
42 - Power Gem
46 - Aqua Ring
51 - Heat Wave
56 - Hydro Pump
66 - Memento

In the early levels, I wanted to play around with the whole “vampire squid” angle, mostly by creating the impression of a Pokemon whose natural predatory behavior revolves around trapping the opponent (victim? prey?), disorienting it, and slowly draining away its health, like a vampire. To show this, Volkraken learns Constrict (trap), Flash (disorient), Bite, and Leech Life (drain) as starting moves. This same idea reappears a short while later when the CAP begins learning more advanced STAB techniques with Whirlpool and Fire Spin, which sort of accomplish all of trapping, disorienting, and health draining all at once. Water Gun is added in between as a great low-level STAB that builds into Scald and Hydro Pump as the movepool progresses.

There is a transition into a more traditional move progression starting at L23, as moves start getting more powerful the more the CAP grows. It would be a crime not to include Scald in the Level-Up pool, so I included it in the learnset after Flame Burst, as though the Poke’s hot bursts of flames begin to boil the frigid waters of the deep sea. Remaining STAB attacks in the Level-Up list continue to grow in power: Dive is a flavorful choice that reflects Volkraken’s ability to thrive in the deepest parts of the abyss (as is Aqua Ring); Heat Wave works for a high-powered underwater Fire move because the CAP can conceivably have hot gasses inside its body that keep it from being crushed by the pressure of the abyss, or something; and Hydro Pump displays a mastery of its Water STAB.

Also included in the latter stages of the Level-Up progression is a bit of a "death" theme, in the spirit of vampirism and that hidden Dark typing. Destiny Bond, while not being very competitively useful, speaks to the vampiric quality of turning people into vampires, while Memento touches upon Volkraken's relentlessness even in death (or fainting; don’t want to get too morbid here). And yes, there is a 6-6-6 in there with the levels at which the CAP learns Hydro Pump and Memento.

Another theme I wanted to touch on with the Level-Up flavor was the CAP’s bioluminescence and how it uses its glowing parts both offensively and defensively when facing a threat. I put Flash in here as a L0 move, along with Reflect, to showcase a young CAP’s defensive use of its bioluminescence, first to blind the opponent and second to mask its escape route. This luminosity theme returns with a sudden burst of offensive power at L23 with Flame Burst, then again with Power Gem, CAP’s most exotic use of this ability, to finish the theme in the Level-Up pool.

I also threw in a couple subtle connections to other Pokemon families I felt were spiritually similar to this CAP. Reflect is learned at L4, which is when the Inkay/Malamar family learns it (they are also modeled after the vampire squid). The CAP also learns Dive at L37, the same level as Gorebyss and Huntail, which I think is a fun connection for the three of them to share, as they are all modeled after various deep-sea creatures and are presumably most comfortable at the deepest depths of the ocean.
(Water 1 / Water 2 Groups, 6 moves, 1 RM)

Aqua Jet - Alomomola, Azumarill, Basculin, Blastoise, Carracosta, Clawitzer, Crawdaunt, Dewgong, Dragonite, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Floatzel, Golduck, Kabutops, Luvdisc, Masquerain, Qwilfish, Sharpedo
Assurance - Sharpedo
Captivate - Gorebyss, Luvdisc, Milotic
Scary Face - Basculin, Feraligatr, Huntail, Masquerain, Sharpedo
Tickle - Alomomola, Azumarill, Lapras, Ludicolo, Lumineon, Milotic, Wailord, Whiscash
Water Pulse - Alomomola, Blastoise, Carracosta, Clawitzer, Corsola, Dewgong, Dragalge, Dragonite, Feraligatr, Gastrodon, Golduck, Gorebyss, Greninja, Huntail, Kingdra, Lanturn, Lapras, Luvdisc, Manaphy, Mantine, Milotic, Octillery, Omastar, Pelipper, Politoed, Poliwrath, Qwilfish, Seaking, Seismitoad, Slowbro, Slowking, Swanna, Wailord, Walrein, Whiscash

There must be some new rule at GameFreak because there were no Pokemon introduced in Gen. VI with more than 7 Egg moves (the average is 4 or 5), so to follow that precedent I have only included 6 moves here. Thankfully, I didn’t need anything remotely competitive from this list, so it wasn’t too hard to parse it down to a few flavorful moves. I have also only listed parents that can obtain these moves in Gen. VI; since Egg Move illegalities no longer exist due to the changes in move relearning, there’s no need to list past generation learning methods or any clutter like that.

Flavor-wise, I wanted to make sure to touch on the various themes I tried to establish in the Level-Up pool. Assurance follows up on the hidden Dark-typing theme, and also subtly hints at Volkraken’s primary ability, Analytic, as it nets a power boost of its own for moving after its target in certain scenarios. Captivate, at least in my mind, plays off of the idea of the CAP using its bioluminescent parts to distract its opponents. Scary Face was a must-have; I needed to address the “false face” of the art design somewhere in the movepool, and this was the perfect place to do it. Tickle is a common move for tentacled Pokemon to have access to, so I didn’t want to leave Volkraken out on all the fun. Finally, there are the two STAB moves, Aqua Jet and Water Pulse, which don’t have any competitive value for the CAP but do fit very flavorfully with a marine creature that already darts through the deep seas shooting beams of water and whatnot.
(36 moves, 22 RMs)

TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Round
TM50 - Overheat
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Scald
TM56 - Fling
TM59 - Incinerate
TM60 - Quash
TM61 - Will-o-Wisp
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM100 - Confide
HM03 - Surf
HM05 - Waterfall

The TM list is where the CAP learns most of its Fire-type moves: Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Incinerate, Overheat, Sunny Day, and Will-o-Wisp round out the bunch along with Fire Spin, Flame Burst, and Heat Wave from the Level-Up list. The CAP can also learn the bulk of its Dark-type attacks here: Fling, Thief, Torment, Payback, and Quash.

I thought Payback would be a neat flavor nod to Volkraken’s Analytic ability, considering its base power doubles if the target has already moved that turn, and Analytic would boost that power to even higher levels. I like to imagine that Volkraken has come to possess the Analytic ability from its evolutionary adaptation to its pitch-black natural habitat (bottom of the ocean), so the fact that Payback is a Dark-type move makes this flavor element very elegant the way I see it. Within the same theme, Volkraken learns Assurance as an Egg move, which is another Dark-type move that does double damage when the CAP moves after the target (if the target has already received damage that turn).

Because Reflect, Scald, and Flash are repeated from the Level-Up pool, that means there are 33 moves and 20 RMs unique to this list.
(56 moves, 27 RMs)

Special Attacking RMs (10):

Fire Blast
Flamethrower / Flame Burst
Flash Cannon
Heat Wave
Hidden Power
Hydro Pump
Overheat
Power Gem
Scald
Surf

Physical Attacking RMs (6):

Aqua Jet
Facade
Frustration / Return
Payback
U-turn
Waterfall

Non-Attacking RMs (11):

Destiny Bond
Memento
Protect
Rain Dance
Reflect
Rest
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Swagger
Toxic
Will-o-Wisp
 

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#12
O.k, its time to discuss this issue quickly.

A number of movepools are decided to include Substitute and Pain Split, despite my earlier concerns. This is, as a rule, totally ok, as in most cases, these users have attempted to justify themselves with solid arguments. That said, there is a particular set people don't seem to be quite aware of that is not getting suitable discussion with relevance to Substitute / Pain SPlit, as much as I would like. The set is as follows:

-Scald
-Substitute
-Pain Split
-Toxic

Potentially with Leftovers, and a 252 HP / 252 SDef or a 252 Def / 252 SDef spread, although EV spread would very likely be flexible.

The issue I have, with the above set, is that it totally destroys Rotom-W, Lati@s, and Blissey / Chansey with the above moves. If Latios lacks Roost, it has no chance at winning. Rotom-W can spam VOlt Switch, its true, but it still gets Toxic'd the moment it switches in, and afterwards has to constantly take residual damage from Scalds / Pain Splits until it goes down. Strictly speaking, it doesn't really win. Blissey and Chansey might be able to PP stall the set, but unfortunately they actually need Heal Bell in order to actually attempt to PP stall (if they lack it they lose), and even if they have it, as shown in Deck Knights scenario, both Blissey and Chansey are forced out anyway, letting something else get Toxic'd. Furthermore, the amount of pokemon that can actually switch in on the above set, is really limited to Magic Guard Clefable, Lum DD Dragonite, and maybe one or two other mons that I'm forgetting. Its this set that concerns me, not a "Sub / Split / Fire Blast / Hydro Pump" set. If arguments could address the above set, that would be valued very much.
 

bugmaniacbob

Was fun while it lasted
is an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
#13
Obligatory comparison spreadsheet:

Click here for many cookies

A few minor notes that are apparent from looking at the spreadsheet:

EpicUmbreon29 you have exceeded the RM limit by four moves, and a few of those "flavour" RMs look somewhat suspect, but I'll come back to that later in this post. Also yes, Counter is disallowed.

Salt the Flesh while you have included Overheat in your movepool it is not present in your summary list of all RMs, so I assumed you were including it. Even with this, however, you are still apparently overestimating your number of RMs by 1. Not sure if you want to re-check.

Kappaten your RM count appears to be overestimated; note that Return+Frustration and Flamethrower+Flame Burst count together as one RM

Darth Missingno. your movepool lacks Facade.

---------------

Some other notes:
  • Do be aware that Confide, Attract, and Double Team are generally present on every ordinary Pokemon, so these should really be included; I'm not sure why the OP lists Round, Giga Impact and Hyper Beam for required but not these three. Protect, Swagger and Substitute are also found on all ordinary Pokemon, for sake of reference.
  • I don't know what the deal is with moves being included that aren't listed as Allowed in the OP but every single submission thus far seems to be doing it for some reason. As a reminder, any move not explicitly allowed is disallowed by default. So if the movepool leader wants to retroactively make Aqua Jet and all the rest of the moves put forward allowed, we can perhaps save ourselves a great deal of confusion, as there are a variety of supposedly disallowed moves being put forward.
  • 10 movepools thus far for a vampire squid and none contain Leech Life. I am a sad panda.
I'l give feedback on individual movepools when I get the chance. Cheers.
 
#14
Final Submission

Bold = RM
* = Required
+ = Repeated


1 Constrict
1 Leer
1 Mud-Slap
1 Soak
4 Bubble
8 Water Sport
12 Baton Pass
15 Scary Face
19 Poison Fang
23 Captivate
26 Rain Dance
30 Clear Smog
32 Scald

35 Spite
38 Flamethrower
42 Memento

45 Haze
49 Spike Cannon
54 Hydro Pump
61 Overheat


20 Moves Total
8 Restricted Moves
I tried to keep the Level Up moves fairly balanced and flavourful towards the artwork whilst still getting in some key moves, for example Baton Pass, Scald, Memento. The reason why the moves looks so awful (until arguably level 38) is because with a typing like water/fire and the great stats behind it, GameFreak logic dictates it would have a really mediocre level up movepool.

So to start with, it learns Constrict, a fairly standard move for any Pokemon with tentacles. Leer is a secondary staple, more fitting than growl, since it does have a rather unnerving gaze. Mud-Slap through to Water Sport are flavour and typical low-level moves. Level 12 it gets Baton Pass, the first move that could potentially feature on a set. Moving on to three more flavour moves in the form of Scary Face, Poison Fang and Captivate. Poison Fang fits Volkraken rather well, implicitly playing on the fact that it's a 'Vampire' squid. Scary Face is similarly supporting the vampire aspect, but first and foremost suit the intimidating facial markings on its body. Captivate might seem an odd choice, but bio-luminescence has many functions, one of which includes attracting mates.

Level 26 is where Volkraken’s moveset begins to see some moves with potential for competitive use; Rain Dance, Clear Smog and Scald all follow in conjunction. Spite at level 35, the reasoning behind it is that I perceive Volkraken to be a bit of a troublemaker. It is just another harmless flavour move, but furthermore, it paves way for the inclusion of Memento without that seeming like an odd, out of place move.

Finally at level 38, a fire move – Flamethrower! The reason behind such a late inclusion of a fire move is because I didn’t feel the need to waste early level moveslots on including Ember/Flame Burst, etc. I refer to my first paragraph in regards to GameFreak logic, that a water/fire pokemon probably has a poor movepool and a limited choice of STABs. This late fire move also gives any potential pre-evolution room to be pure water type. Of course Volkraken may end up being a single stage Pokemon, but I digress.

Memento at level 42 since it typically falls as a late level move. Haze at 45 an inferior option to Clear Smog but I wanted to include it somewhere in the movepool so there is an alternative choice. Level 49 it learns Spike Cannon, another flavour move complementing the barbs on the tentacles.

Bringing the level up moves to a close are the big competitively-viable, hard-hitting STABs Hydro Pump (54) and Overheat (61) are Volkraken’s penultimate and ultimate move respectively. Its full potential has been unlocked, and training the thing was worth the pain of levelling up!

EDIT: Removed Wring Out in favour of Spike Cannon, people were kind enough to provide calculations that I couldn't get a hold of earlier!


TM06 Toxic *
TM10 Hidden Power *
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam *
TM17 Protect *
TM18 Rain Dance +
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration *
TM27 Return *
TM32 Double Team *
TM33 Reflect
TM35 Flamethrower
+
TM38 Fire Blast
TM41 Torment
TM42 Façade *
TM44 Rest *
TM45 Attract *
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round*
TM54 False Swipe
TM55 Scald +
TM56 Fling
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM68 Giga Impact *
TM70 Flash
TM84 Poison Jab
TM87 Swagger
*
TM88 Sleep Talk *
TM89 U-Turn
TM90 Substitute
*
TM91 Flash Cannon
TM100 Confide *
HM03 Surf
HM04 Strength

34 Total Moves
16 Restricted Moves (discounted repeated RMs - not sure if I'm supposed to do that, someone let me know)
A lot of the moves on there are required/expected, so I won’t go through them all. Competitively viable moves include Reflect, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Scald, Will-O-Wisp, U-turn, Flash Cannon, Surf and Substitute.
Fire Blast is included as that was what all initial calculations were based on, and it’s probably going to be Volkraken’s most used move. Will-O-Wisp was included for a reliable burn against physical attackers. Flash Cannon is my answer to fairy pokemon, still keeping our checks and counters safely where we want them. Substitute is included because even though it can create 101 subs hindering the blobs, it is on every TM learning pokemon, and as much as I may want to omit it, it didn’t seem right.

Notable flavour TMs include Thief, Fling and False Swipe, all capitalising on my idea that Volkraken is a cheeky so-and-so, and providing support for the reasoning behind Memento. Flash is included because of the bioluminescence attribute of Vampire Squids and the fire typing we gave it. Poison Jab is on too many pokemon with limbs, so it seemed an appropriate addition.


Stealth Rock (Omastar, Corsola, Cradily, Armaldo, Carracosta, Archeops)
Power Gem (Starmie, Corsola)
Spike Cannon (Cloyster, Omastar, Corsola)
Aqua Ring (Tentacruel, Cloyster, Corsola)
Bide (Kingler, Omastar, Corsola, Carracosta)

5 Total moves
2 Restricted Moves
Volkraken fits in the egg group Water 3 rather well, the kind of Pokemon that reside in this egg group are deep ocean floor dwellers (and a couple of oddities Archeops and Drapion anyone?) The Vampire Squid resides at levels that light cannot reach, so it made sense to me for Volkraken to join this egg group.

I deemed it unnecessary to add a secondary egg group, as this egg group also provided everything I wanted in terms of egg moves to pass on. Stealth Rock and Power Gem are the two particular moves I refer to. I needed to fit these in somewhere, and the egg moves were the only place suitable.
The remainder of the moves are all flavour. Spike Cannon is pretty much a staple move amongst half the pokemon the Water 3 group. Aqua Ring is semi-viable in a competitive sense; however I don’t see it having much usage, if any at all.


EDIT: Decided to remove Helping Hand and Entrainment to stick with the Gen6 limited egg moves.


You may have noticed by now, I have made the choice of omitting some fairly popular/controversial moves. I’ll go through them one by one and explain why.

Sludge Wave is not on my move set because Flash Cannon hits fairies super-effectively and is resisted by the bulky waters we want to be checked by, and thereby sticking to the threat list we set – the omission is basically insurance to make sure this happens.

Pain Split is omitted because of SubSplit shenanigans (which probably won’t even break Volkraken). However I saw more reason to omit Pain Split over Sub since every TM learner gets Sub. It was a case of one or the other, and for me Pain Split lost.

Status healing is not on the list because I don’t feel that Volkraken needs to have it, sure it would help the core but he can already absorbs burns for Lucario (in my opinion the most dangerous status the core would have to face), furthermore flavour-wise they just don’t fit on it.

Lava Plume is omitted due to the already overwhelming methods of burning with scald and WoW covering both water and fire types. If however someone likes my moveset but thinks Lava Plume is a 'competitive necessity' that's missing, I would have no qualms about fitting it in somewhere.


Overheat/Fire Blast/Flamethrower/Hydro Pump/Scald/Surf: These are the usable STABs provided in my movepool.
Flash Cannon is included because even though Fire Blast does more damage to fairy types, this a more accurate/reliable answer them. The reason I chose steel coverage over poison coverage is because, similarly, I don't want to give Volkraken a more accurate/reliable option against our checks and counters as well as fairies.
Power Gem is included to OHKO Gyarados before it Mega-evolves, if the chance arises, and to a lesser extent, it should OHKO Dragonite after Stealth Rock damage. It does also deal with Talonflame, Charizard Y and Volcarona, but then again so does Hydro Pump.

In terms of damaging attacks and coverage, I wanted to keep a degree of predictability for Volkraken, so I gave it the STABs it needed and the bare minimum coverage required. These four types should ensure that this happens; dual STABs are effectively a given, so the only question any opponent would have is what are the other two moves - coverage or support?

The answer to the latter half of that question;

U-turn is a good way to get Lucario in against pokemon faster than itself without having Lucario take damage. With a choice band it deals 50-60% to Lati@s, but let's face it, choice banded Volkraken would be a waste of the pokemon based on my movepool (no physical STABs).

Will-O-Wisp, good reliable method of spreading burns, in theory, it cripples any sub 95 speed physical attackers. As an added bonus it infiltrates King's Shield, if Aegislash risks scouting to see moves or find out if it's potentially choice locked.

Reflect could be considered a way of temporarily buffing its own physical defense, but if it's used in conjunction with U-turn/Baton Pass it gives Lucario a good chance of setting up.

Memento is included as Volkraken's sacrificial final attempt at supporting the core. -2 att and -2 sp.att gives Lucario opportunity to set up or Latias opportunity to safely defog hazards or set up Calm Mind.

Stealth Rock was included after much hesitation. With it Volkraken becomes one of the best offensive rock setters out there, but we wanted our core to be as self-sufficient as possible. I would probably have excluded it, if not for the fact that Lucario really appreciates hazard damage to help it clean up.

Clear Smog/Haze were both included to deter Pokemon setting up on Volkraken, especially Calm Mind users like Clefable and Sylveon. It also helps deal with Baton Pass teams.

Other Moves of note are; Substitute, Aqua Ring, Baton Pass - SubBP would benefit Lucario and the core mostly. Aqua Ring was mainly included for flavour, however, it can still be Baton Passed - maybe finding a niche set somewhere down the line.
Rain Dance/Sunny Day; Volkraken could provide Sun/Rain support to other members of its team (not the core), furthermore, it helps itself by boost one of its STABs at the cost of the other.
Moves not worth explaining but still competitively viable Protect, Swagger, Rest, Sleep Talk, Toxic and Hidden Power.


Spite, Torment, Thief, Fling; these ghost and dark type moves are inspired by the malevolent/intimidating artwork. Furthermore they nicely complement the inclusion of Memento.

Poison Fang, Scary Face and again, Spite and Torment to a lesser extent, are moves that focus on the 'vampire' part of the vampire squid. It's mostly self explanatory, Poison Fang and Scary Face are physical attributes of vampires. Vampires strike fear in others, and often hold malicious intentions (spite) towards their enemies. They are also often portrayed as Tormented souls, regretful and longing to be free of their curse.

Spike Cannon, Bide, Constrict, Flash, Captivate, Attract and again, Scary Face, all contribute flavour to Volkraken's artwork and the biological features of a vampire squid. Spike Cannon is because of the numerous spikes on its tentacles. Cephalopods Bide their time in when catching their prey and can Constrict to kill them. Flash, Captivate and Attract are all supportive of the bio-luminescent features of Volkraken. As well as for warning off enemies, bio-luminescence can be used to attract/captivate mates.
Finally, Scary Face is a direct nod to the intimidating facial markings on the body of Volkraken's artwork.


Even taking into account the moves omitted, I believe I have created a movepool that gives Volkraken the bare minimum of coverage needed, allowing for the degree of predictability which is sought after. Yet plenty of options still remain when it comes to filling in the last couple of move slots, whether it is further coverage or the potential utility moves available. In my movepool Volkraken has access to very few STABs, nonetheless they are still the most important ones - including physical STABs such as Flare Blitz, Aqua Jet and Waterfall would be a waste of RM space. Additionally the typing we gave it consists of possibly the two most opposing types in the game; it made little sense to give Volkraken access to every decent fire and water move.

To conclude, variety (of STABs and of coverage) had to be sacrificed for a movepool that adheres to the concept, yet still have appropriate coverage and a natural balance between competitive and flavour.


59 Total moves
26 Restricted Moves
 
Last edited:

Korski

Distilled, 80 proof
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#15
  • Do be aware that Confide, Attract, and Double Team are generally present on every ordinary Pokemon, so these should really be included; I'm not sure why the OP lists Round, Giga Impact and Hyper Beam for required but not these three. Protect, Swagger and Substitute are also found on all ordinary Pokemon, for sake of reference.
  • I don't know what the deal is with moves being included that aren't listed as Allowed in the OP but every single submission thus far seems to be doing it for some reason. As a reminder, any move not explicitly allowed is disallowed by default. So if the movepool leader wants to retroactively make Aqua Jet and all the rest of the moves put forward allowed, we can perhaps save ourselves a great deal of confusion, as there are a variety of supposedly disallowed moves being put forward.
  • 10 movepools thus far for a vampire squid and none contain Leech Life. I am a sad panda.
I'l give feedback on individual movepools when I get the chance. Cheers.
For the record, I've got Leech Life as a L0 move in my Level-Up pool (and V4Lover has it in the Level-Up pool as well) and I completely agree it's perfect for the flavor of this Pokemon. Also, physical STAB moves were probably not discussed due to lack of competitive value (45 Atk...). Although you do have a technical point in that regard, it is still entirely within the power of the Movepool Leader (iirc) to allow these moves as uncompetitive RMs, which I believe is what ginganinja is doing, as precisely zero physical STABs are present in either the Allowed or Disallowed lists (ginga feel free to clarify this point if I am putting words in your mouth).

EDIT: one more point I'd like to throw out there is that Gen. VI Pokemon have very few Egg moves compared to Pokes from previous generations. I'm not exactly sure why, but the highest Egg move count I could find was 7, shared by Chesnaught and Hawlucha (the average appears to be 4 or maybe 5 Egg moves). If I wanted to make an "accurate" Gen. VI movepool, I would definitely keep the Egg move count below 7.
 
Last edited:
#16
The only RM on my movepool submission not specifically allowed in the OP is Nature Power, which I spoke with Ginganinja with beforehand and was allowed by them.
 
#17
So I don't really understand : are RM physical attacks (below than 80BP) allowed or disallowed, since there hasn't ben any discussion on this and it is not really viable (bar aqua-jet may be)?
And yeah some movepool submissions already had leech life, I don't know why you said such a thing (even if all movepool submission should have it imo).
 

bugmaniacbob

Was fun while it lasted
is an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
#18
For the record, I've got Leech Life as a L0 move in my Level-Up pool (and V4Lover has it in the Level-Up pool as well) and I completely agree it's perfect for the flavor of this Pokemon.
I must have missed those somehow. Apologies.

Also, physical STAB moves were probably not discussed due to lack of competitive value (45 Atk...). Although you do have a technical point in that regard, it is still entirely within the power of the Movepool Leader (iirc) to allow these moves as uncompetitive RMs, which I believe is what ginganinja is doing, as precisely zero physical STABs are present in either the Allowed or Disallowed lists (ginga feel free to clarify this point if I am putting words in your mouth).
Yes, you're entirely correct, which was why I wanted ginga or somebody to specify this somehow, or in some post, even if it's just "all physical flavour moves are fine" (and even then Extrasensory is in one movepool and I don't know whether or not this needs discussing, I doubt it but even so) - the disallowed list also included the statement "all coverage moves over 80 BP" which would theoretically disallow Gunk Shot and Flare Blitz even though their damage output against anything is pitiful.

If nothing else, just to nip this in the bud before it becomes painful.

EDIT: one more point I'd like to throw out there is that Gen. VI Pokemon have very few Egg moves compared to Pokes from previous generations. I'm not exactly sure why, but the highest Egg move count I could find was 7, shared by Chesnaught and Hawlucha (the average appears to be 4 or maybe 5 Egg moves). If I wanted to make an "accurate" Gen. VI movepool, I would definitely keep the Egg move count below 7.
Even with previous generations taken into account, the average number of egg moves is around 5; generally speaking they tend to have fewer egg moves because there aren't TM moves lost in generation transition, as was the case for Bullet Seed and Focus Punch on Breloom, et cetera. But yes, I agree with the point made here.

----

As a last note, a couple of movepools seemed to be pointing out legal move combinations, which is slightly bizarre given that there shouldn't be any illegal move combinations at all in these movepools due to the new breeding mechanics, unless it relies on an event move for a breeding partner from a previous generation or something bizarre like that.
 

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#19
Although you do have a technical point in that regard, it is still entirely within the power of the Movepool Leader (iirc) to allow these moves as uncompetitive RMs, which I believe is what ginganinja is doing, as precisely zero physical STABs are present in either the Allowed or Disallowed lists
Confirming this is correct, I know I previously HAD Physical STAB move options in the allowed column, and its likely it was just an error in transcribing a final allowed Attacking RM list. As a CAP mod bmb, you are entirely welcome to edit that back into the OP, physical STAB options are allowed. You have my sincere apologies for this oversight.

EDIT

Lol whoops, thought you were a mod xD
 
Last edited:

bugmaniacbob

Was fun while it lasted
is an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
#20
As a CAP mod bmb, you are entirely welcome to edit that back into the OP, physical STAB options are allowed. You have my sincere apologies for this oversight.
um

well anyway yeah if an actual cap mod could do that that would settle any petty quibbles I have on that front

although extrasensory should really be disallowed unless ginga says otherwise, since that does actually seem to have some competitive application
 
#21
EDIT: one more point I'd like to throw out there is that Gen. VI Pokemon have very few Egg moves compared to Pokes from previous generations. I'm not exactly sure why, but the highest Egg move count I could find was 7, shared by Chesnaught and Hawlucha (the average appears to be 4 or maybe 5 Egg moves). If I wanted to make an "accurate" Gen. VI movepool, I would definitely keep the Egg move count below 7.
Hello! Let me remind you of this handy post and this detailed guide and specifically this plot:

So yeah, 7 is on the high side so be careful about going over it. Highest is 13. Also some people probably have an unrealistically low number of total moves.
 

DetroitLolcat

Maize and Blue Badge Set 2014-2017
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#22
There are a few moves that aren't Restricted Moves but are still conceptually relevant on this Pokemon and can hit our counters pretty hard. Right now, 80 BP moves such as Extrasensory and Tri Attack are not explicitly disallowed but clearly do not fit in with the conclusions drawn in the Threats Discussion and Attacking/Non-Attacking Moves Discussions. Hitting Keldeo, a Pokemon that's supposed to fare reasonably well against Volkraken, for 80 BP super-effective damage does not comport with the conclusions drawn in the Non-Attacking Moves discussion. Psyshock is disallowed for how well it does against Keldeo and the blobs, but Extrasensory hits Keldeo just as hard. Tri Attack, while not hitting any counters harder than our STABs normally would, still hits Latios and Latias over 95% as hard as Fire Blast and Hydro Pump but with perfect accuracy and a greater status chance. Although these moves aren't explicitly disallowed, they're a very hard sell.

I'd like to second ginganinja's point about SubSplit Toxic CAP18 and an area that may have been overlooked: the potential for Toxic to be anti-concept in tandem with other moves such as Substitute and Pain Split. Lati@s, Rotom-W, and Keldeo hate Toxic, and Substitute+Toxic+Pain Split means that Volkraken will be able to get Toxic status on just about anything it wants before the Substitute is broken, then heal some of the Substitute damage with Pain Split. This set absolutely demolishes Latias, who cannot do 75% to a 252 HP/ 0 SDef Volkraken with Life Orb Draco Meteor. Essentially, bulky Volkraken can drop to about 10% or 15% health againist Latias, Toxic it, and then heal its damage back with Pain Split. The end result of Latias switching into SubSplit Volkraken is Latias ending up badly Poisoned and Volkraken ending up with either high HP or low HP and a Substitute. Latios fares similarly, but Volkraken will have to invest more in bulk to achieve the same result.

Sub/Pain Split/ Toxic/Scald is a set that specifically targets Volkraken's counters while not performing against the Pokemon Volkraken needs to beat. Fairies beat this set. Aegislash beats this set. Latios, Latias, Keldeo, and the blobs either outright lose to or are heavily hampered by this set.
 
#23
Here is my contribution :
Bold = RM
Italic=Doubles

00-Lava Plume
00-Haze
01-Leech Life
01-Wrap
01-Bubble
04-Leer
08-Astonish
13-Smokescreen
17-Camouflage
21-Water Pulse
25-Octazooka
25-Spike Cannon
30-Pin Missile
33-Flame Burst (doubles with Flamethrower)
38-Mud Bomb
42-Mean Look
45-Refresh (doubles with Aromatherapy)
48-Dive
52-Scary Face
56-Inferno
60-Hydro Pump

RMs : 3
Total moves : 21
Here are the STAB moves, mainly RM that cannot be learned by TM. Lava plume is at level 0, because I consider it's a move that only the evolution could have access to. Moves are learned by an usual order : first very weak moves such as leech life/wrap/bubble, then some support (but still useless) moves and a better STAB at level 21. I am considering the octopus evolves at level 25, so it learns two caracteristical moves at this time. Flavor is based on several points : first, Volkraken has spikes on its tentacles, that's why I put Spike canon(amonistar also does), and pin missile. The design of the face made me choose moves such as astonish, leer, mean look and scary face. As it is an octopus, I give it octazooka. An octopus creates ink, so it made me choose stuff like haze (same as tentacruel), smokescreen and camouflage to a lesser extent. As a vampire, it had to learn leech life. Other moves are moves usually seen on water/fire-types, mud bomb is a personal choice because I easily see it send a mud bomb, and inferno because I wanted it to be inkferno. This movepool is entirely flavor-based, as the only RMs are Lava plume and Hydro pump, common attacks on such a pokemon. Note that it starts and keeps learning in-game viable moves from level 42.
This movepool is largely inspired by Golbat, Tentacruel, Malamar, Omastar and Octillery's ones.

06-Toxic
09-Venoshock
10-Hidden Power
11-Sunny Day
15-Hyper Beam
17-Protect
18-Rain Dance
21-Frustration
27-Return (doubles with frustration)
32-Double Team
33-Reflect
35-Flamethrower
38-Fire Blast
42-Facade
44-Rest
45-Attract
48-Round
55-Scald
59-Incinerate
61-Will-o-Wisp
68-Giga Impact
70-Flash
87-Swagger
88-Sleep Talk
89-U-turn
90-Substitute
91-Flash Cannon
100-Confide

03-Surf

RMs : 18
Total Moves : 29
Most of those moves are required ones, ore STAB ones.I added flash cannon because it provides a great coverage for what it's supposed to check, namely fairy-types. However, I was originallly against Sludge Wave, so I didn't put it there. U-turn is a really usefull move in this core, switching in Latias or Lucario given the situation, and it doesn't deal great damage with its pitifull attacl stat. To me, Sunny day and Rain dance were mandatory. I also added Flash and Venoshock as flavor moves.

-Heat Wave via Charizard
-Power Gem via Slowking
-Clear Smog via Gastrodon
-Baton Pass via Gorebyss
-Aromatherapy via Meganium
-Memento via Gastrodon

RMs : 6
You can see the choices I made in this part, as these are moves that aren't TM/HM and that doesn't really fit with Volkraken. As you can see, I didn't put Sludge Wave neither Overheat, these are two too powerfull moves in my opinion. Power gem is, as flash cannon, great for coverage and not that powerfull. That shows I wanted Volkraken to be an fast and offensive pivot, but not too powerfull.
Between Healing wish and Memento, I prefered Memento because Latias already has access to healing wish and does this job very well. Aromatherapy and Baton pass allow it to work even better as a pivot, because it "heals" and give free turns to our partners, sometimes giving them a great substitute. Clear smog is a great attack with infiltrator, and can add some variety in this core, making it less predictable to some extent.
Finally, I'll say that most of the moves I didn't add were non-attacking moves, such as Stealth Rock. SR is not a good idea on this pokemon, this was and is my opinion, as it is the best way to give it a lot of viability outside of the core.
The egg groups contains water 1, because a water-type pokemon has to be part of a water group, and this one gave the largest number of possibilities. Monster is for Heat wave/Aromatherapy, because Aromatherapy/Heal bell can't be given by any of the three Water groups, and I had to find another one. Besides, a kraken is a monster, so that's not totally against flavor.


Total RMs : 27
Total Moves : 57

I didn't know if Pin missile was allowed, and I found it was flavor-wise, so I put it in the movepool. However, if it is banned, I can suppress it.
I also want to point out that I realized I made the second pokemon having access to both BP+Mean look, so once again, if it's too powerful or whatever, I can delete Mean look from the movepool.
I hope I crafted a good movepool, that's the first time I make it so if you have any suggestions, questions or disagreements, tell me :)
 
Last edited:
#24
Final Submission

Key:
!!= RM
!= Repeated/Outclassed RM
?= Repeated Non Rm

1 Constrict
1 Leech Life
5 Water Gun
14 Ember
19 Bubble Beam
22 Bite
28 Incinerate
34 Flame Wheel
38 Power Gem!!
41 Scald!!
44 Flame Burst!(Outclassed by Flamethrower)
48 Hydro Pump!!
52 Scary Face
58 Lava Plume!!
61 Memento!!

16 Moves
5 RM

I mainly based the movepool level orderings off of a combination of Tentacruel (I know it's a jellyfish but it has many similarities to Octopi), Malamar, and Octillery. It typically learns its fire moves in latter levels, because it seems to be more of a Water type if you ask me, so It shouldn't get its typical fire moves right off the bat. Constrict is in there to resemble the other octopus Pokémon and Leech life and Bite are in there for a vampire feel, especially leech life because if you look at its Japanese name it is Suck Blood, and a vampire should be able to do that. Power Gem is on here because of the glowing lights on Volkraken's body, and I felt that it would make no sense not to have it there.

Aura Sphere!! (From Blastoise and Clawitzer)
Camouflage (From Stunfisk, Dragalge, Corsola, Greninja, and Malamar)
Clear Smog!! (From Golduck, Kingdra, Wailord, and Gastrodon)
Octazooka (From Octillery and Kingdra)
Stealth Rock!! (From Omastar, Kabutops, Corsola, Swampert, Relicanth, Empoleon, Bibarel, Seismitoad, Carracosta, and Stunfisk)

5 Moves
3 RM

I chose Water 1 and Water 2 because those are the Egg Groups Octillery and Malamar belong to, which are the 2 Octopus Pokémon. Aura Sphere, Clear Smog, and Stealth Rock are on here because they do make sense flavor-wise, but not enough to be learnt in the level-up movepool, which Nintendo seems to do with most of their Pokémon. Camouflage and Octazooka are on here because they both come from octopus Pokémon, which is what where are trying to make our Pokémon, especially Octazooka. Camouflage also somewhat fits with our vampire theme (Camouflage being used by turning into a bat anybody?)

TM06 Toxic!!
TM10 Hidden Power!!
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect!!
TM18 Rain Dance!!
TM21 Frustration!!
TM27 Return *
TM32 Double Team
TM33 Reflect!!
TM35 Flamethrower!!
TM38 Fire Blast!!
TM42 Facade!!
TM44 Rest!!
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM50 Overheat!!
TM55 Scald!
TM59 Incinerate?
TM61 Will-O-Wisp!!
TM68 Giga Impact
TM70 Flash
TM87 Swagger!!
TM88 Sleep Talk!!
TM89 U-Turn!!
TM90 Substitute!!
TM91 Flash Cannon!!
TM100 Confide
HM03 Surf!!
HM05 Waterfall!!

19 RM
28 Moves

* Return and Frustration are counted as 2 Moves, but only 1 RM
** Repeated From Level Up

This is where Volkraken will get most of its moves. I will be honest here, most of these moves are filler, with the required moves in general and the moves that each Fire and Water type should have on their movepool. Reflect, U-Turn, and Flash cannon where added to help Volkraken support the core's defense, have a pivoting move, and have a move against fairy types. Flash was added because I don't see how it makes any sense to have Flash Cannon and not flash.

Clear Smog over Haze: The reason I have Clear Smog over Haze is because Clear Smog, unlike Haze, only resets the opponent’s stats. This may not sound like a big deal but remember, we have Overheat, so we can just nuke stuff with Overheat and then clear it away with Haze, which is a big no-no

No Pain Split: Pain Split is just to powerful to have on our movepool, it completely destroys Chansey and Blissey and we are trying to be countered by them

Power Gem: This allows us to threaten Mega Charizard Y, a major threat to the core.

Flash Cannon: This allows us to hit fairy types like Clefable and Togekiss while at the same time not hitting water types to hard like with Sludge Wave

No Sludge Wave: I really don’t even understand why we voted for this to be allowed. It does to much damage to the Pokémon we are trying to threaten and we have Flash Cannon to hurt fairies that we don’t already threaten with our type, other than Azumarill but its written down for "A lesser extent"

Stealth Rock/Reflect: These moves help out the core a lot, by boosting our defense and deal damage to the cores threats respectively. Also, Stealth Rock does not threaten our threats like Keldeo at all; in fact it helps against threats to the core like Mega Charizard Y and Volcarona

Sunny Day/Rain Dance: I was originally against these moves, but they really not that bad. It restricts the use of Choice Specs, which is what makes us such a nuke. In fact, Sunny Day helps some of the Pokémon we are trying to threaten and Rain Dance helps some of the Pokémon we trying to be threatened by

Overheat: This move does a lot of damage yes, but it reduces our special attack stat, so in reality it’s not that spammable plus it helps us a lot by dealing with Aegislash.

U-Turn: It helps us a lot by letting us pivot and it does barley any damage, like how are we going to abuse this move when our attack stat is only 5 points higher than Pidgey's

No Status Healing: These basically destroy the Pink Blobs by removing their man source of damage, namely Toxic. That is too dangerous to have.

tl;dr I added moves that help the core and are not abusable and I disallowed moves that are abusable or threaten the Pokémon we are trying to threaten


50 Total Moves
27 Total RM

Feedback and Criticism is encouraged. Also thank you Toebag and bugmaniacbob for the help
 
Last edited:

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#25
The Pizza Man

Wring Out
I don't really like this move on a movepool. Sure, technically its not an RM, and thus "allowed", but its effectively a 120 BP normal move (with analytic boost) against anything that switches in on full health (and if your counter has taken prior damage, you can use Fire Blast instead). This utterly nukes the hell out of Rotom-W, and Lati@s, so I don't really feel hugely comfortable with it in a movepool.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.