Clefable (Calm Mind)

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/clefable

status: GP 2/2

didn't feel like just writing a skeleton and I don't mind making changes so I just wrote the set. super rough draft anyways.

Xia is supposedly doing a Clefable revamp but the thread is basically dead and he hasn't posted in C&C for ages, so I'm writing this set. also I don't think he had it in his update last I checked.

Bold vs Modest is just preference, I guess, but I find the extra power of Modest is a lot more annoying to face.

- added Leftovers AC
- added Calm AC
- added Psychic AC
- added Toxic AC
- condensed 'counters' and 'how to deal with counters' paragraph into one cause it was getting long
- added paralysis support, but didn't mention "obvious" partners like Uxie because those are universal partners for Clefable
- rephrased comments to make Bold an equal option to Modest
- Magneton
- 96 Speed
- 172 Speed


---

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Softboiled
item: Life Orb
ability: Magic Guard
nature: Modest
evs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Calm Mind Clefable is one of the most dangerous
—and overlooked—threats for defensive teams in UU. Unlike most Calm Mind sweepers, Clefable has solid physical bulk and lacks easily exploitable weaknesses. In addition, Magic Guard grants Clefable an immunity to entry hazard and poison damage, rendering the bulk of a stall team's strategy ineffective. To top it all off, an instant recovery move in Softboiled means that even whittling down Clefable's health through repeated weak attacks is not an option.</p>

<p>Calm Mind and Softboiled form the core of the set, allowing Clefable to set up on weaker attackers while recovering lost health. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are the preferred attacking moves, since together they hit every Pokemon in UU
with the exception of Lanturn, Magneton, and Shedinja for at least neutral damage. Lanturn and Magneton are setup bait for Clefable, while Shedinja is rarely seen and easily disposed of with Stealth Rock. In addition, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam provide vital super effective coverage against key threats. Thunderbolt zaps Milotic and its fellow Water-types, while Ice Beam nails Ground- and Grass-types, such as Donphan, Rhyperior, and Venusaur.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>A Modest nature and 252 Special Attack EVs maximize Clefable's offensive potential. 96 Speed EVs put it at 180 Speed, allowing it to outpace Adamant Rhyperior. The remaining EVs are dumped into HP to capitalize on Clefable's natural bulk. If you're concerned about outpacing Milotic, using 172 Speed EVs beats minimum Speed variants, but adding a few additional EVs may be a good idea since Milotic tend to invest slightly in Speed. Another spread that is very effective can be attained by shifting Clefable's Special Attack EVs into Defense and using a Bold nature. This allows it to set up on a much greater portion of the metagame, but the extra power provided by Modest may be missed—for example, Modest ensures that without a boost, Thunderbolt deals over 50% to Milotic on average, and with a boost, OHKOes Donphan, Rhyperior, and offensive Venusaur. If you choose to use Bold, changing Life Orb to Leftovers is also an option to ease Clefable's setup by providing a source of passive recovery
outside of Softboiled's active recovery. Another alternative is to move the EVs in question into Special Defense and use a Calm nature, which makes setting up on powerful special attackers like Life Orb Moltres possible.</p>

<p>
Unfortunately, Clefable does not have a STAB special attack that it can use. However, there are a few alternatives to the moves suggested. Using Psychic instead of Ice Beam lets Clefable hit Hitmontop super effectively while retaining power against Venusaur. Alternatively, Toxic can be used instead of Thunderbolt to defeat Haze Milotic; in this case, Ice Beam is the preferred attack because there are no Pokemon immune to it.</p>

<p>There aren't many Pokemon who can reliably stop Calm Mind Clefable, especially on defensive teams, which means luring and weakening the few checks that exist can result in an easy sweep. Haze Milotic will erase Clefable's boosts before Clefable can hit it with Thunderbolt. However, Milotic usually loses in the long run, as a paralysis or critical hit will put the odds heavily in Clefable's favor. Stall teams can pair Milotic with Aromatherapy Chansey to PP stall Clefable. To avoid this, weakening Milotic to 50% HP means it won't be able to counter Clefable; if it tries to Haze at that health, Thunderbolt will KO; if it tries to Recover, +1 Thunderbolt will deal far more damage than it can heal.
Many Pokemon, including physical Blaziken, Passho Berry Houndoom, and Choice Band Azumarill, can adequately weaken Milotic. However, a cleaner way to get rid of it is with a lure packing Explosion, such as Steelix or Curse Registeel. Keep in mind that using these recklessly may not be successful since they also lure in Omastar and Cloyster seeking to set up Spikes. Explosion lures are also a good way to eliminate Rapid Spin Hitmontop; Regirock is the best such lure due to its high Attack stat, Clear Body, and its ability to outpace defensive Hitmontop. Pokemon with Choice items and Trick can cripple Clefable, but simply switching Clefable out for another Pokemon will neutralize the threat. Additionally, since most Trick users are Ghost- or Psychic-type, a Pursuit user such as Houndoom or Drapion can eliminate them.</p>

<p>Beyond using Pokemon with super effective Fighting-type attacks, the easiest way for offensive teams to deal with Clefable is to have one Pokemon batter
Clefable so that it cannot set up and have a second finish it off. Since these attackers rely on their high Speed to hit Clefable first, paralysis support helps Clefable a lot, particularly against special attackers. When Clefable can use Calm Mind before it is hit with a special attack, it can set up against a much larger range of Pokemon.</p>
 
Wow how was this this not on site yet? Anyway I think Leftovers deserves a AC mention at least for being able to bluff a defensive set and the extra recovery is a nice bonus.
 
Agreeing with alex about Lefties being AC material. Also, one nitpick:
Clefable has solid physical bulk and only a single weakness
I think you mean special bulk instead of physical bulk, as Clefable has base 73 Defense versus base 90 Special Defense. Anyway, I've seen this used against me, and it was pretty effective. I would love to see this thing in Clefable's analysis.
 
flashrider, 95/73 is good physical bulk, especially when you consider all three spreads mentioned in the set comments run max hp. the context is a comparison to mismagius and alakazam, who have paper thin defenses relative to 95/73.

thund, i've thought about it before, but there aren't really many speed benchmarks that it can hit without sacrificing nearly all of its bulk. there's hitmontop at 84 evs but hitmontop usually beats you anyways (if you have psychic you can just spam it a few times until it is too weak to come in). then a bunch of random stuff like blastoise and claydol that no one cares about. 252 adamant rhyperior at 96, 252 jolly rhyperior at 164, and 0 milotic at like 172 or something. i guess you could use that if you really want but it's just such a waste of clefable's bulk... and i already am mentioning the three ev spreads i feel are the most viable.
 

Bluewind

GIVE EO WARSTORY
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This set's a winner. I'd just mention that Clefable enjoys paralysis support, and Uxie makes a good partner to that set (Fighting resist, TWave, SR; while Clefable can take on some Ghosts and so on). Anyways, found nothing more to add, so:

 
it looks like a good set, but I think a Ev spread that merits mentioning is evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe, with a Bold nature, that way it can set up much easier against other pokemon.
 
yeah what happened to the more defensive spread? that one is much much better than this, allowing you to setup on a shitton of things. also takes hitmontop a lot better, as a +1 psychic after a CC (which you survive) KO's top. excellent lure as well.
 

shrang

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Just a nitpick:

Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are the preferred attacking moves, since together they hit every Pokemon seen in UU for at least neutral damage, except for Lanturn and Shedinja. Lanturn and its weak special attacks are setup bait for Clefable, while Shedinja is rarely seen and easily disposed of with Stealth Rock.
Magneton resists Boltbeam as well. Although, you can just say Clefable can just CM up and heal off the damage and Magneton can't do crap back.
 
XD

the bold ev spread was the first change mentioned in the additional comments from the very first revision of the set. i mean you can't just slash two ev spreads so i've got to pick one. while they both have very obvious benefits, the modest spread is more "accessible" since it is a bit easier to play and takes less setup.

for now i'll just rephrase the comments a little to clarify that a defensive spread is basically just as good. if more people who have used all the spreads post in favor of it, i'm not opposed to making it the main one.

fixed, shrang.
 
This spread is way better than the defensive spread. It stops mons like Donphan from surviving Ice Beam and the like.

I would have approved it before you changed it...
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
I am convinced that this needs some speed. At the minimum, it should outrun Rhyperior...do you really want Clefable to get revenged by a CB variant?! I'd prefer that it be EV'd to outrun 4 Spe Milotic as well, since then the biggest stop to Clefable on a defensive team is easily circumvented. This also guarantees that you outrun all those weird fast donphan/azumarill, which can save your ass.
The bulk cost will be great, yes, but I view this as a potent tool against stall/balance, so I think optimizing it to that end is more valuable than bulking it up when it's going to fail against bulky offense regardless...but I'd like to hear other opinions on that before saying "this is how it should be".
 

Bluewind

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My main gripe with giving it Speed is that I really don't see it attaining benefits from that at all. Rhyperior isn't OHKO'd by Ice Beam IIRC and the Jolly variant still beats you (I know it's rare, but if there's something I don't want to do is leaving that Clefable in a Rhyperior); Milotic will be beaten by Thunderbolt eventually (IIRC Thunderbolt has more PP as well, so that alleviates the luck factor); Most Donphan and Azumarill are involved in speed creeps to beat Clefable and Weezing, and that's something you can't do much about outside of giving it 8-24 Speed EVs. Giving it some speed sounds interesting, but I think that should be left for the AC section, as against bulky offense you'll still want to switch in on things like Lanturn (which I think you beat in the long run, even the CB set); Milotic and such.

I also support the current offensive EV spread as the main option. This thing's main attribute is breaking stall and I think a defensive spread absolutely ruins its potential.
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
+1 Ice Beam does take out Standard Rhyperior (136/0 vs +1 Ice Beam: 98.8% - 116.5%).

Haze Milotic beats the current set because +0 Thunderbolt doesn't 3hko Bold Milotic without some lucky rolls (35.1% - 41.5%, assume lefties), meaning it can even get crit and survive the next turn because it's fast enough to Recover on you. It has to get crit at exactly the right time for Clefable to win, which isn't very reliable. Calm 252/56 variants just outright win. Note that if you try and Calm Mind it's just going to haze you because you're slower.

However, if you're faster, you can Calm Mind and it can't do a damn thing because it has to alternate between Haze and Recover while you alternate between Calm Mind and Thunderbolt, which will let you win a lot easier and more reliably. In addition, you also can't get beaten to shit by Hitmontop (if you run Thunderbolt/Psychic, which is a nice combo since it still covers Venusaur and hits Donphan and Torterra neutrally...steelix walls ya though), Rhyperior, CB Azumarill, and other random slow things like Adamant CB Aggron.

I would strongly recommend one of these spreads: 160 HP/252 SpA/96 Spe or 80 HP/252 SpA/176 Spe.

The first spread outruns Adamant max speed Rhyperior (CB variants), as well as pretty much every Hitmontop, Azumarill, and Donphan. Also lets you outrun random slow things like low-investment Magneton and Claydol.

The second spread is the one I like. It lets you outrun everything up to Milotic, which includes things like Blastoise and defensive Venusaur.

There are some issues with the less bulky spread though (in the calcs I did the most relevant/concerning one was now being KOd by LO Torterra's Wood Hammer).
 

Bluewind

GIVE EO WARSTORY
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I'm in a bit of a hurry, but I'm getting this: 295 Atk vs 286 Def & 394 HP (95 Base Power): 184 - 218 (46.70% - 55.33%). Maybe you forgot to factor Life Orb. Anyways, if it's running Psychic I do think this set should run more Speed (obviously, especially because Psychic is there for Hitmontop especially).
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Yeah I did forget Life Orb...lame. You're right, outrunning Milotic probably isn't necessary, but we really should let it outrun at least Rhyperior. It doesn't take too much investment and prevents Clefable from getting messed up by CB azu and things.
 

Bluewind

GIVE EO WARSTORY
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Yeah, given the chances of OHKOing Rhyperior (around 92%) and the surprising damage a +1 Ice Beam deals to Hitmontop (I got 50.33% - 59.21%, but I used stats from the top of my head, so this might be wrong), I'm leaning towards adding the 96 Speed EVs Flare mentioned. The analysis itself already mentions means of weakening/eliminating Hitmontop as well, so it sounds plausible.
 
changed primary spread to 96 Speed. added 172 Speed mention and rephrased parts of the EV paragraph. seems like we're pretty much all on the same page but I'll keep the QC tag on this for a little bit more just in case there's something someone wants to say.
 
Additions in bold, removals in red.
set: Calm Mind
[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Softboiled
item: Life Orb
ability: Magic Guard
nature: Modest
evs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Calm Mind Clefable is one of the most dangerousand overlookedthreats for defensive teams in UU. Unlike most Calm Mind sweepers, Clefable has solid physical bulk and only a single weakness, meaning it does not have an lacks easily exploitable vulnerability weaknesses. In addition, Magic Guard grants Clefable an immunity to entry hazard and poison damage Toxic damage and entry hazard damage, rendering the bulk of a stall team's strategy ineffective. To top it all off, an instant recovery move in Softboiled means even that whittling down Clefable through repeated weak attacks is not even an option.</p>

<p>Calm Mind and Softboiled form the core of the set, allowing Clefable to set up on weaker attackers while recovering off lost health. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are the preferred attacking moves, since together they hit every Pokemon seen in UU for at least neutral damage, with the exception for of Lanturn, Magneton, and Shedinja for neutral damage or better. Lanturn and Magneton are setup bait for Clefable, while Shedinja is rarely seen and easily disposed of with Stealth Rock. In addition, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam provide vital super effective coverage against key threats. Thunderbolt zaps Milotic and its fellow Water-types, while Ice Beam nails Ground- and Grass-types, such as Donphan, Rhyperior, and Venusaur.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>A Modest nature and 252 Special Attack EVs maximize Clefable's offensive potential. 96 Speed EVs puts it at 180 Speed, which outpaces all Adamant Rhyperior. The remaining EVs are dumped into HP to capitalize on Clefable's natural bulk. If you're concerned about outpacing Milotic, 172 Speed EVs beats minimum Speed variants, but using a bit more may be a good idea since Milotic tend to invest slightly in Speed. Another spread that is very effective can be attained by shifting Clefable's Special Attack EVs into Defense with a Bold nature. This allows it to set up on a much greater portion of the metagame, but the extra power provided by Modest may be missed—for example, Modest ensures that +1 Ice Beam deals over 50% to Milotic on average and OHKOes Donphan, Rhyperior, and offensive Venusaur., and deals over 50% to Milotic on average. If you choose to use Bold, changing Life Orb to Leftovers is also an option to ease Clefable's setup by providing a source of passive recovery external to outside Softboiled's active recovery. Another possible change is to move the EVs in question into Special Defense and use a Calm nature, which makes setting up on powerful special attackers like Life Orb Moltres possible.</p>

<p>Using Psychic instead of Ice Beam will let Clefable hit Hitmontop super effectively while retaining power against Venusaur. Toxic can be used instead of Thunderbolt to defeat Haze Milotic; Ice Beam is preferred as the single attack, in this instance, however, because there are no Pokemon immune to it. Unfortunately, Clefable does not have a STAB special attack that it can use.</p>

<p>There aren't many Pokemon who are reliable stops to Calm Mind Clefable, especially on defensive teams, which means luring and weakening the few checks that exist them can result in an easy sweep. Milotic with Haze will erase Clefable's boosts before Clefable can hit it with Thunderbolt. However, Milotic usually loses in the long run, as a paralysis or critical hit will put the odds heavily in Clefable's favor. Stall teams can pair Milotic with Aromatherapy Chansey to PP stall Clefable. To avoid that situation, weakening Milotic to 50% HP means it won't be able to counter Clefable; if it tries to Haze form that health, Thunderbolt will KO; if it tries to Recover, +1 Thunderbolt will deal more damage than it can heal. far outdamage its recovery. Many Pokemon, ranging including from physical Blaziken, to Passho Berry Houndoom, to and Choice Band Azumarill, can adequately weaken Milotic. However, a cleaner way to get rid of it is with a lure packing Explosion, such as Steelix or Curse Registeel. Keep in mind that using those recklessly may not be successful since they also lure in Omastar and Cloyster seeking to set up Spikes. Explosion lures are also a good way to eliminate Rapid Spin Hitmontop;, but in this case, Regirock is probably the best such lure option due to its high Attack stat, Clear Body, and its ability to outpace defensive Hitmontop. Simply switching Clefable out for another Pokemon will neutralize the threat of Trick, and because most Trick users are Ghost or Psychic typed, a Pursuit user such as Houndoom or Drapion can eliminate them as well.</p>

<p>Beyond the obvious Pokemon with super effective Fighting-type attacks, the easiest way for offense offensive teams to deal with Clefable is to use have one Pokemon to keep battering it, so that until Clefable is forced to attack, instead of set up, and then finish it off with a second Pokemon (if needed). Since these sweepers attackers rely on their high Speed to hit Clefable first, paralysis support helps a lot, is a great boon, especially particularly against those attackers that are specially oriented. sweepers. When Clefable can use Calm Mind before it is hit with a special attack, the range of Pokemon who can be set up on is drastically increased.</p>

Looks really good to me. I can't think of much of anything to say here besides good job.

Cheers.

GP Check 1/2




edit: ty for the check, updated! one more... ~whistle
 
Bold for insert / replace etc
Red for delete
Blue for problematic

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Softboiled
item: Life Orb
ability: Magic Guard
nature: Modest
evs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Calm Mind Clefable is one of the most dangerous—and overlooked—threats for defensive teams in UU. Unlike most Calm Mind sweepers, Clefable has solid physical bulk and lacks easily exploitable weaknesses. In addition, Magic Guard grants Clefable an immunity to entry hazard and poison damage, rendering the bulk of a stall team's strategy ineffective. To top it all off, an instant recovery move in Softboiled means that even whittling down Clefable through repeated weak attacks is not an option.</p>

<p>Calm Mind and Softboiled form the core of the set, allowing Clefable to set up on weaker attackers while recovering off lost health. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are the preferred attacking moves, hitting every Pokemon seen in UU
except Lanturn, Magneton, and Shedinja for neutral damage or better. Lanturn and Magneton are setup bait for Clefable, while Shedinja is rarely seen and easily disposed of with Stealth Rock. In addition, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam provide vital super effective coverage against key threats. Thunderbolt zaps Milotic and its fellow Water-types, while Ice Beam nails Ground- and Grass-types, such as Donphan, Rhyperior, and Venusaur.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>A Modest nature and 252 Special Attack EVs maximize Clefable's offensive potential. 96 Speed EVs puts it at 180 Speed, which outpaces all Adamant Rhyperior. The remaining EVs are dumped into HP to capitalize on Clefable's natural bulk. If you're concerned about outpacing Milotic, 172 Speed EVs beats minimum Speed variants, but using a bit more How much? may be a good idea since Milotic tend to invest slightly in Speed. Another possible spread that is very effective can be attained by is to shift Clefable's Special Attack EVs into Defense and use a Bold nature. This allows it to set up on a much greater portion of the metagame, but the extra power provided by Modest may be missed—for example, Modest ensures that +1 Ice Beam deals over 50% to Milotic on average +1 Ice Beam does 20.5% - 24.5% to 0/0 Milotic - did you mean Thunderbolt? and OHKOes Donphan, Rhyperior, and offensive Venusaur. If you choose to use Bold, changing Life Orb to Leftovers is also an option to ease Clefable's setup by providing a source of passive recovery
outside of Softboiled's active recovery. Another alternative is to move the EVs in question into Special Defense and use a Calm nature, which makes setting up on powerful special attackers like Life Orb Moltres possible.</p>

<p>Using Psychic instead of Ice Beam will let Clefable hit Hitmontop super effectively while retaining power against Venusaur. Toxic can be used instead of Thunderbolt to defeat Haze Milotic; in this case, Ice Beam is the preferred single attack
in this instance, however, because there are no Pokemon immune to it. Unfortunately, Clefable does not learn any usable STAB special attacks Even if it did, ghosts are immune. Since you just recommended Ice Beam because nobody is immune, this seems rather contradictory.</p>

<p>There aren't many Pokemon who can reliably stop Calm Mind Clefable, especially on defensive teams, which means luring and weakening the few checks that exist can result in an easy sweep. Milotic with Haze will erase Clefable's boosts before Clefable can hit it with Thunderbolt. However, Milotic usually loses in the long run, as a paralysis or critical hit will put the odds heavily in Clefable's favor. Stall teams can pair Milotic with Aromatherapy Chansey to PP stall Clefable. To avoid this, weakening Milotic to 50% HP means it won't be able to counter Clefable; if it tries to Haze at that health, Thunderbolt will KO; if it tries to Recover, +1 Thunderbolt will deal far more damage than it can heal.
Many Pokemon, including physical Blaziken, Passho Berry Houndoom, and Choice Band Azumarill, can adequately weaken Milotic. However, a cleaner way to get rid of it is with a lure packing Explosion, such as Steelix or Curse Registeel. Keep in mind that using these recklessly may not be successful since they also lure in Omastar and Cloyster seeking to set up Spikes. Explosion lures are also a good way to eliminate Rapid Spin Hitmontop. (puncutation) Regirock is the best Hitmontop lure due to its high Attack stat, Clear Body, and its ability to outpace defensive Hitmontop. Pokemon with Choice items and Trick can cripple Clefable, but simply switching Clefable out for another Pokemon will neutralize the threat. Additionally, since most Trick users are Ghost or Psychic typed, a Pursuit user such as Houndoom or Drapion can eliminate them.</p>

<p>Beyond using Pokemon with super effective Fighting-type attacks, the easiest way for offensive teams to deal with Clefable is to have one Pokemon batter
Clefable so that it cannot set up and have a second finish it off. Since these attackers rely on their high Speed to hit Clefable first, paralysis support helps Clefable a lot, particularly against special attackers. When Clefable can use Calm Mind before it is hit with a special attack, it can be set up on a much larger range of Pokemon is drastically increased.</p>
PS: I don't get all the [color = black] tags @_@
 
ok thanks for the check. implemented most of them but there were a few changes (mostly at the beginning) that i felt were iffy/unnecessary. in general just makes the font black, but i dunno what you're referring to specifically because i don't get a hit when i ctrl-f for "[color"...?
 

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