[COMPLETED] Gliscor

Discussion in 'XY Previews' started by dragonuser, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    [​IMG]
    [Pros]

    <ul>
    <li>Fantastic physical wall with reliable healing through its ability, Poison Heal.</li>
    <li>It has a very wide range of support moves to further aid its team.</li>
    <li>It is able to outspeed and Taunt the majority of entry hazard leads.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>It is extremely frail on the specially defensive side.</li>
    <li>Its offensive movepool is fairly limited, holding back its decent offensive stats.</li>
    <li>If Gliscor lacks Knock Off, it is completely walled by Gengar.</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>name: Physical Wall<br />
    move 1: Protect / Roost<br />
    move 2: Substitute / Taunt<br />
    move 3: Toxic<br />
    move 4: Earthquake<br />
    ability: Poison Heal<br />
    item: Toxic Orb<br />
    evs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spe<br />
    nature: Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)</p>

    <p>This set makes incredible use of Gliscor's ability, Poison Heal. Coupled with its average bulk and access to Toxic, Substitute, and Protect, Gliscor becomes a stalling behemoth. The basis of the set is to inflict Toxic on your opponent, then stall them out through use of Substitute and Protect. After two turns of Poison Heal, Gliscor recovers the twenty-five percent lost from making the Substitute, leaving it virtually unscathed. Earthquake gives Gliscor a powerful STAB and a way to damage Poison- and Steel-types super effectively. Roost is a viable option when used with Taunt, focusing more on Gliscor's role as a physical wall, while Taunt prevents Pokemon from using Gliscor as entry hazard setup bait or using a cleric move to negate the status spreading.</p>

    <p>Gliscor really appreciates partners that can take on Gengar, as it counters this set. Assault Vest Tyranitar, Scizor, and Goodra make for good partners as a result. Tyranitar and Scizor work particularly well, being able to Pursuit Gengar. Starmie and Excadrill can Rapid Spin away hazards, and are able to outspeed Gengar and threaten the OHKO, if Sandstorm is up in Excadrill's case.</p>

    <p>name: Pivot<br />
    move 1: Taunt<br />
    move 2: Earthquake<br />
    move 3: U-turn<br />
    move 4: Roost / Knock Off<br />
    ability: Poison Heal<br />
    item: Toxic Orb<br />
    evs: 244 HP / 48 Def / 216 Spe<br />
    nature: Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)</p>

    <p>This set makes use of Gliscor's excellent scouting capabilities. Gliscor has very respectable physical bulk, and in combination with U-turn and Taunt is able to serve as an excellent scout. Taunt stops entry hazard leads from functioning, only losing to Aerodactyl, while U-turn helps Gliscor gain momentum for its team. Earthquake is an obligatory STAB attack, which is Gliscor's main way of damaging the opponent. Roost offers a way for Gliscor to instantly heal itself, especially with the Poison Heal recovery. Knock Off, alternatively, allows Gliscor to indirectly weaken walls by removing their healing and also beats its biggest enemy, Gengar.</p>

    <p>The Speed EVs allow Gliscor to outspeed Adamant Lucario, Timid Smeargle and all relevant slower entry hazard leads. Gliscor greatly appreciates sturdy Water-type-resisting Pokemon as partners, as one of the main checks to this set is Rotom-W, especially if Gliscor lacks Toxic. As result, Goodra and ironically Rotom-W would work well as partners. Both greatly appreciate the momentum given by Gliscor, with Rotom-W being able to capitalize on that momentum with Volt Switch and Goodra being able to use it for launching powerful Choice Specs-boosted Draco Meteors.</p>

    <p>name: SubPass<br />
    move 1: Baton Pass<br />
    move 2: Substitute<br />
    move 3: Earthquake<br />
    move 4: Taunt / Swords Dance / Agility<br />
    ability: Poison Heal<br />
    item: Toxic Orb<br />
    evs: 244 HP / 48 Def / 216 Spe<br />
    nature: Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)</p>

    <p>This set sacrifices Gliscor's stalling capabilities in favor of the various boosting and support moves Gliscor has been given. Baton Pass is the main move of this set, passing along any Substitutes or boosts acquired by Gliscor to a more dangerous sweeping partner. Taunt can be useful for stopping Gliscor from being phazed, while at the same time serving as a deterrent for entry hazard leads. However, depending on what Gliscor is passing to, Swords Dance and Agility are equally appealing options, further setting up the recipient to sweep.</p>

    <p>The current EV spread allows Gliscor to outspeed Adamant Lucario, Timid Smeargle and below, beating most entry hazard leads bar Aerodactyl. However, if Swords Dance or Agility are used instead of Taunt, the Speed EVs could be dropped in favor of more bulk. Powerful offensive sweepers greatly benefit from Gliscor, and as result are recommended partners. Pokemon like Mega Charizard X, Dragonite, and Greninja all benefit greatly from having a Substitute or boost passed to them, and instantly become much bigger threats.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chesto Berry Rest Rotom-W is one of the best counters to Gliscor that there is, as it has a way to permanently evade Toxic damage while being immune to Gliscor's main STAB attack. Gengar is also a fantastic counter to Gliscor if it lacks Knock Off, being immune to Toxic and Earthquake. Similarly, Xatu serves as an excellent counter, being able to bounce back Toxic using its ability, Magic Bounce, and being immune to Earthquake. Skarmory walls any Gliscor lacking Taunt, and Ferrothorn, similarly, does well.</p>
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  2. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    I opted for no purely offensive set, as the lack of Flying Gem really hurts Acrobatics based sets, and Earthquake + Ice Fang isn't very effective right now especially given how slow Gliscor is compared to much of the metagame.

    Also to the best of my knowledge, Gliscor does not get Stealth Rock or Defog till pokebank, further limiting set options.
  3. BKC

    BKC sorrow flew on black wings
    is a Tutoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,147
    with the blessing of ava and gorguts, i qc approve this
  4. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,198
    We talked on IRC and this looks fine with me.

    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED 2/3
  5. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA Boxing
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,628
    Xatu as counter.

    QC APPROVED 3/3
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  6. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    added, thanks guys!
  7. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego Guys. The thermal drill. Go get it
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,513
    dragonuser

    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    Show Hide

    [Pros]

    <ul>
    <li>Fantastic physical wall with reliable healing through its ability, Poison Heal.</li>
    <li>It has a very wide range of support moves to further aid its team.</li>
    <li>It is able to outspeed and Taunt the majority of entry hazard leads.</li>
    </ul>

    [Cons]

    <ul>
    <li>It is extremely frail on the specially defensive side.</li>
    <li>It's offensive movepool is fairly limited, holding back its decent offensive stats.</li>
    <li>It is completely walled by Gengar.</li>
    </ul>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb<br />
    Ability: Poison Heal<br />
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd<br />
    Impish Nature<br />
    - Protect<br />
    - Substitute / Taunt<br />
    - Toxic<br />
    - Earthquake</p>

    <p>This set makes incredible use of Gliscor's ability, Poison Heal. Coupled with its average bulk, (RC) and access to Toxic, Substitute, and Protect, Gliscor becomes a stalling behemoth. The basis of the set is to inflict Toxic on your opponent, then stall them out through use of Substitutes and Protects. After two turns of Poison Heal, Gliscor recovers the twenty-five percent lost from making the Substitute, leaving it virtually unscathed. Earthquake gives Gliscor a powerful STAB, (RC) and a way to damage Poison- and Steel-types super effectively. Taunt is a viable option over Substitute, preventing Pokemon from using Gliscor as entry hazards setup bait or using a cleric move to negate the status spreading.</p>

    <p>Gliscor really appreciates partners who that can take on Gengar, as it counters this set. Assault Vest Tyranitar, Scizor, and Goodra make for good partners as a result. Tyranitar and Scizor work particularly well, being able to Pursuit Gengar. Scizor also works particularly well as it has Defog, offsetting any entry hazards that may be set while Gliscor slowly stalls the opponent. Similarly, Starmie and Excadrill also make for good partners, being able can also Rapid Spin away hazards, and being able to outspeed Gengar and threaten the OHKO, if Sandstorm is up in Excadrill's case.</p>

    <p>Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb<br />
    Ability: Poison Heal<br />
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spd<br />
    Impish Nature<br />
    - Taunt<br />
    - Earthquake</p>
    - U-turn <br />
    - Protect / Toxic / Ice Fang<br />

    <p>This set makes use of Gliscor's excellent scouting capabilities. Gliscor has very respectable physical bulk, and in combination with U-turn and Taunt is able to serve as an excellent scout. Taunt stops entry hazard leads from functioning, only losing to Aerodactyl, while U-turn helps Gliscor gain momentum for its team. Earthquake is an obligatory STAB attack, that is its which is Gliscor's main way of damaging the opponent. Protect helps Gliscor stay healthy, pairing well with its Poison Heal ability, but Toxic helps Gliscor whittle down the opponent's team and works well in conjunction with Taunt. Ice Fang has use in completing Gliscor's coverage, making it so that few offensive threats are able to set up in front of Gliscor.</p>

    <p>The Speed EVs allow Gliscor to outspeed Timid Smeargle and all relevant slower entry hazard leads. Gliscor greatly appreciates sturdy Water-type-resisting Pokemon resists as partners, as one of the main checks to this set is Rotom-W, especially if Gliscor lacks Toxic. As result, a Goodra and ironically a Rotom-W would work well as partners. Both greatly appreciate the momentum given by Gliscor, with Rotom-W being able to capitalize on that momentum with Volt Switch and Goodra being able to use it for launching powerful Choice Specs-boosted Draco Meteors.</p>

    <p>Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb<br />
    Ability: Poison Heal<br />
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spd<br />
    Impish Nature<br />
    - Baton Pass<br />
    - Substitute<br />
    - Earthquake<br />
    - Taunt / Swords Dance / Agility</p>

    <p>This set sacrifices Gliscor's stalling capabilities in favor of the various boosting and support moves Gliscor has been given. Baton Pass is the main move of this set, passing along any Substitutes or boosts acquired by Gliscor to a more dangerous sweeping partner. Taunt can be useful for stopping Gliscor from being phazed, while at the same time serving as a deterrent for entry hazard leads. However, depending on what Gliscor is passing to, Swords Dance and Agility are equally appealing options, further setting up the recipient to sweep.</p>

    <p>The current EV spread allows Gliscor to outspeed Timid Smeargle and below, beating most entry hazard leads bar Aerodactyl. However, if Swords Dance or Agility are used instead of Taunt, the Speed EVs could be dropped in favor of more bulk. Powerful offensive sweepers greatly benefit from Gliscor, and as result are recommended partners. Pokemon like Mega Charizard X, Dragonite, (AC) and Greninja all benefit greatly from having a Substitute or boost passed to them, and instantly become much bigger threats.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chesto Berry Rest Rotom-W is one of the best counters to Gliscor that there is, as it has a way to permanently evade Toxic damage, (RC) while being immune to Gliscor's main STAB attack. Gengar is also a fantastic counter to Gliscor, being immune to Toxic and Earthquake. Similarly, Xatu serves as an excellent counter, being able to bounce back Toxic using its ability, (AC) Magic Bounce, (AC) and being immune to Earthquake. Skarmory walls any Gliscor lacking Taunt, and Ferrothorn, similarly, does well.</p>

    1/1
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  8. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    thank you very much, implemented.
  9. Halcyon.

    Halcyon.
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,207
    I wrote the analysis for BW2 and I have some problems with the EV spread on the subtoxic set. I think you should run 244 HP first of all, because it gives Gliscor the maximum recovery from Poison Heal. Second, I ran 224 EVs in Speed because it lets you outrun Lucario, which is HUGE right now. It can OHKO Lucario before it mega evolves. Being able to take it out before it can do anything back is really important considering how fantastic Mega Lucario is right now, and Gliscor is one of the best checks we have for it right now. I definitely think a spread of 244 HP / 40 Def / 224 Spe with an Impish nature should be used. But at the very least, I think the HP should be changed to 244. I can understand wanting to run more bulk considering how Gliscor is one f the few available physical walls of this generation. Still, something to consider.
    daveicon and ShootingStarmie like this.
  10. PDC

    PDC they say i'm crazy but i have a good time
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,133
    doesn't mega evolving have priority over other normal moves like that. lucario would be able to mega evolve before eq?
  11. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,291
    I think he means before the Mega Evolution can outspeed and KO Gliscor with Ice Punch, because Lucario doesn't get its massive boost in Speed until the following turn, allowing Gliscor to to hit it with an EQ before it can outspeed. Problem is, Mega Lucario's extra Defense boost can allow it to survive an uninvested EQ and KO back the following turn, so Gliscor might need to run some Attacks EVs or Spike support if it wants to even have a chance at doing this.

    0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 230-272 (81.56 - 96.45%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    I also agree that the HP EVs for maximum Toxic Orb replenishment should definitely be included.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
  12. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    952
    The turn order is set before mega evolution takes place, so even if Lucario Mega-Evolves, Gliscor would still move first if he was faster than normal Lucario.

    By the way, Crobat is also a huge problem for Gliscor: immune to Toxic and EQ, and carries Taunt to render Gliscor useless.
  13. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,198
    Haylcon is right about the HP EVs, I suggest you make this small change DU :toast:
  14. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    I optimized hp evs on all sets. Increased speed on last two, while keeping bulk on first
    ShootingStarmie likes this.
  15. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,670
    I don't really know what these Speed EVs let you outspeed. You need 16 Speed EVs to outrun max Speed Adamant Scizor; 12 only lets you tie with it. On the other two sets, you mention outrunning max Speed Smeargle and Adamant Lucario, but you need 216 EVs to do so. I think you just forgot to put those EVs in. The remaining 48 EVs (after you invest 244 into HP) if invested into Atk, give you an 87.5% chance to OHKO Mega Lucario after Spikes damage and the KO is guarenteed after both SR and one layer of Spikes (you need some form of Atk investment to guarantee the KO with these hazards up).
  16. McGrrr

    McGrrr Facetious
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,485
    As the analysis alludes, Gengar makes Gliscor hate life. However, it has an excellent (though rarely seen) answer with the newly buffed Knock Off. This should definitely be an option on pretty much every moveset.
  17. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    I don't see too much use for knock off on the first and third set, but I think it would work spectacularly on the 2nd one. Thanks

    also properly placed the correct ev spreads, thanks for catching that
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  18. Capt. Krill

    Capt. Krill

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    I've found my SubPass Gliscor cornered by Flying-types and levitators plenty of times. I use Facade for the fourth slot of the set, and with the boost it receives from toxic orb, I've seen a lot of success with it - especially for catching aforementioned flyers and levitators off-guard.
  19. pedro702

    pedro702

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    86
    the problem with this is that gliscor and lucario need to be in a the same time since if one of your other pokemons gets lucario switched in on them when you switch him gliscor he will mega evolve and when gliscor has the chance of atacking lucario will already be way too fast.

    its to situational imo because no one will just switch a lucario onto a gliscor and try to sweep from there, they will always switch lucario onto something they can easily ko with CC while mega evolving so most of the time gliscor speed to outspeed lucario will be worthless.
  20. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Angel of mercy, how did you find me?
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,621
    Just some grammar nitpicks:

    in the [Cons]:
    "<li>It's offensive movepool is fairly limited, holding back its decent offensive stats.</li>"
    Remove the apostrophe in "it's". You mean to have a possessive "its", as you are describing the offensive movepool that Gliscor has.

    in the first paragraph of the Physical Wall set:
    "Roost is a viable option when used with Taunt, focusing more on Gliscor's role as a Pphysical wall, while Taunt preventsing Pokemon from using Gliscor as entry hazard setup bait or using a cleric move to negate the status spreading.</p>"
    The letter "p" in "physical wall" should not be capitalized. Aside from this, the sentence is also misleading- it implies that Roost prevents Pokemon from using Gliscar as entry hazard setup bait even though Taunt does that, so if I were you I'd clarify that Taunt does the preventing and then modify prevents to match the object, Taunt.

    second paragraph of the Physical Wall set:
    "Similarly, Starmie and Excadrill can also Rapid Spin away hazards, and are being able to outspeed Gengar and threaten the OHKO, if Sandstorm is up in Excadrill's case."
    Grammatical error.

    first paragraph, pivot set:
    "Knock Off, alternatively, allows Gliscor to indirectly weaken walls, by removing their healing, and also beats its biggest enemy, Gengar."
    No commas needed; make sure "beats" matches its subject, Knock Off.


    Nice work otherwise.
  21. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    Implemented, thanks
  22. Setosama

    Setosama

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Messages:
    21
    Um... In the first set, you mention scizor having defog. Are you talking about a scizor being moved up via bank (which is not yet legal IRL) because as far as I know Scizor can't get that move.
  23. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    removed, thanks
  24. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,219
    I actually think the first set should really incorporate Knock Off as a primary slash in the set.

    While McGrrr mentioned Gengar, there are other Pokemon that switch into Gliscor with not a whole lot of issues. One example would be Skarmory who hates having Rocky Helmet / Leftovers / Shed Skin taken away from him. Offensive Scizors are also not huge fans of Knock Off since suddenly they lose a huge power boost. It's not available, but Balloon Heatran would be another reason to consider Knock Off too. Also consider that Knock Off makes Toxic stalling a lot easier since you rob the opponent's Leftovers in the process. It's really horrifying.

    I mean what's the problem with Toxic / Roost / EQ / Knock Off? It's not that Substitute + Roost, Substitute + Protect, or Roost + Protect is godawful or anything, but Knock Off ensures a lot more misery for the opponent in the process. Denying Leftovers and possible Choice items can be substantial. While there are instances where Knock Off can backfire slightly on Choice Band users (i.e. Scizor, Azumarill), it still will weaken them significantly.
  25. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    952
    I love Knock Off on Gliscor, it definitely deserves a primary slash. I've used a set of EQ / Knock Off / Roost / Taunt extensively on the OU ladder and it works very well. Most opponents will avoid sending Toxic-vulnerable Pokemon into Gliscor, and without Sub/Protect I don't find much use for it. Taunt on the other hand ruins common switch-ins like Skarmory and Ferrothorn that happily set up on Gliscor otherwise.

    It would be easy to change - all that would need to be done is rearrange the slashes on the first or second sets. However, I think Toxic stall Gliscor probably deserves a separate set from Physical Wall Gliscor, it would eliminate all that slashitis.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 3)