I'm fine with playing 'Nape. Can't wait to see how this comes out.
Alexwolf / Temp V1
Alexwolf / Temp V1
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Counter This Pokemon [ginganinja vs TEMP V1]
- Thread starter Nix_Hex
- Start date
Temp V1
Movin' at the speed of life and I can't slow down
Temp V1/Alexwolf
Thats just because this is a new account :p I've been around for a while, but thank you :)
Thx for the votes so far guys! NixHex as i said again i really want you to chose Temp V1 as the nominator if we can't be both, and this is because the Infernape idea was his mainly. You shouldn't discount him because a tie between him and Electrolyte may happen. If it does happens (which seems almost sure), then just flip a coin (this happens in tours all the time for unplayed games, so i don't see why it can't be done here), and post here the result. Thx!
EDIT: Oh and seeing as many of the people that voted have already wrote my name only, then let's just keep it the same 'till the voting ends (posting my name if they want Infernape, or our names combined), and then you pick Temp V1.
And of 'course, Temp V1 / Alexwolf
EDIT: Oh and seeing as many of the people that voted have already wrote my name only, then let's just keep it the same 'till the voting ends (posting my name if they want Infernape, or our names combined), and then you pick Temp V1.
And of 'course, Temp V1 / Alexwolf
All right, I will credit Temp V1 but Electrolyte is still team captain. Thanks to both of you for designing such a beastly set. I'm going to cut this short so we can move on. There's a clear winner with such a high density of votes in this amount of time. Team 2's final Pokemon is Temp V1's Infernape!
Infernape @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Trait: Iron Fist
Nature: Naive
- Close Combat
- Overheat
- Stone Edge
- Mach Punch
Now, let's get back to Team 1. It's time to pick the final member of both Team 1 and the entire project! Please nominate one Pokemon. List the Pokemon's name, item, sprite, nature, ability, moves, and EVs. No slashes for item, ability, and especially moves.
Thanks to everyone who has participated so far and I can't wait to see our pick!
Infernape @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Trait: Iron Fist
Nature: Naive
- Close Combat
- Overheat
- Stone Edge
- Mach Punch
Now, let's get back to Team 1. It's time to pick the final member of both Team 1 and the entire project! Please nominate one Pokemon. List the Pokemon's name, item, sprite, nature, ability, moves, and EVs. No slashes for item, ability, and especially moves.
Thanks to everyone who has participated so far and I can't wait to see our pick!
I feel like this may be useful.
Politoed @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Trait: Drizzle
Nature: Calm
- Scald
- Toxic
- Perish Song
- Protect
Rain pretty much shuts down Team 2 (bar Rotom-W). Celebi's HP Fire can't touch anything in the rain (21.42 - 25.27% to Metagross). Infernape's Overheat still does a hefty chunk (60.98 - 72.52%) but Politoed can come in to take the hit like it's nothing (9.37 - 11.19%). Rain also supports Thundurus-T and Meloetta by letting them use Thunder which devastates Team 2 (Thundurus' movepool allows it to take out Celebi and Heatran on the possible switch in also).
Protect can be used to scout out what Rotom is going to lock itself into if it tries to switch into Politoed and, if SR are already up, Terrakion can be a good candidate to take a Trick. Another cool thing is that Politoed can take 2 Giga Drains from Celebi before a Nasty Plot (42.7 - 50.52%).
Politoed @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Trait: Drizzle
Nature: Calm
- Scald
- Toxic
- Perish Song
- Protect
Rain pretty much shuts down Team 2 (bar Rotom-W). Celebi's HP Fire can't touch anything in the rain (21.42 - 25.27% to Metagross). Infernape's Overheat still does a hefty chunk (60.98 - 72.52%) but Politoed can come in to take the hit like it's nothing (9.37 - 11.19%). Rain also supports Thundurus-T and Meloetta by letting them use Thunder which devastates Team 2 (Thundurus' movepool allows it to take out Celebi and Heatran on the possible switch in also).
Protect can be used to scout out what Rotom is going to lock itself into if it tries to switch into Politoed and, if SR are already up, Terrakion can be a good candidate to take a Trick. Another cool thing is that Politoed can take 2 Giga Drains from Celebi before a Nasty Plot (42.7 - 50.52%).
STAND BY FOR MASSIVE BIRKAL STYLE TL;DR
Sassy I love you all introduction crap Birkal's addicted too starts here
O.k, we are ending the end of this project, which im sad about, because this has been really fun, and I hope you all enjoyed this project so far. Some of the posts being made here, are simply excellent, and I know many of the OU Staff have remarked on how excellent many of you have discussed things, so firstly, I would honestly like to say Well Done, to everyone so far for your contributions, its been amazing!
Anyway, moving on, its time to completely shutdown Team 2, im a take no prisoners kinda guy, so its time to broadly analyse what they struggle with.
Team 2 weaknesses analysis
Firstly, (and obviously) they struggle with Water attacks. This is patched up with Rotom W and Celebi, but a water type that could deal with those two would really piss them off... (for example, White Herb SS Cloyster can set up on Mamoswine and be a massive (BAN ME PLEASE)).
Secondly, Fighting pokemon really piss them off. They have a grand total of ONE Fighting resist (Celebi), which means that right now, Meloetta and Terrakion can be very threatening, just switching in. Team 2 make up for this weakness, but chucking an ass load of priority on there team, so they can revenge kill our powerhitters, a good tactic, but in return they have lost a lot of there ability to set up and threaten. If we can find something difficult to revenge kill with priority, it would really frustrate them.
What I feel our team should focus on exploiting
Now, onto our team. Firstly, and most importantly, we made this team with Rain in mind. This was not just my idea, but it was the idea I had in the back of my mind, and as such, affected my nominations. The point of this was simple, Rain is by far the most threatening strategy in BW2, and I knew that mentioning Rain time and time again, would really threaten them and force them to teambuild in a way to shutdown Rain. I didn't really mind this, if they were so focused on defending against rain, then they would be open to something else, as rather pleasantly, is the case here today :)
If we were to go down the Rain Route, Scarf Politoed, or Physically Bulky Politoed are good options. On Scarf, we can run HP Bug to nail Celebi if we want, or HP Grass if Rotom W was rly annoying. Scarf actually can threaten Team 2 if Rotom W and Celebi are both down, and Ice Shard and Bullet Punch are NVE which makes it a fairly good choice. It also brings Rain that makes Thundurus and Meloetta so much more powerful, which is hardly a bad thing.
We can also go for a physically defensive bulky toed. This will allow use to check Heatran / Infernape / Mamoswine / Scizor with the threat of Scald, and Protect will shut down Rotom W. If it locks itself into Volt Switch, Thundurus can switch in for free, and team 2 back with its impressive coverage moves. If it locks itself into Hydro Pump well, its NVE against Politoed anyway, and we have Kyurem to bring in to waste 2 PP of it anyway via pressure, and we still regain momentum. The only downside to this is that it makes Celebi slightly more threatening. If we think our team can handle Celebi fine, then Physically bulky Toed would be a good fit, if Celebi is more threatening, we can look at other options.
That said, don't have to go the rain route. We can exploit them being rather fighting weak in other ways. For example, Scarf Moxie Heracross, seems like a fairly decent option, giving us a solid revenge killer, while putting more pressure on Celebi (if it dies, then Heracross can sweep with Moxie CC). This means that Metagross, could also get a fair amount of use, threatening Celebi with a CB Pursuit if it switchs out, or a CB Meteor Mash if it stays in. If the Celebi user predicts wrong, then Heracross sweeps, its as simple as that, the downside is that if it predicts right, we lost a fair amount of momentum, although we can try again. Obviously, priority would also be a slight issue, but on the face of it, Heracross looks like a fairly decent option :)
My boss nomination
Despite all this, its time for me to make my own Nomination. Team 2 is very focused on revenging things, so its time to turn the tables on them, with something exceptionally hard to handle....
Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD (until I get a better spread)
Trait:Guts
Adamant Nature
~ Bulk Up
~ Mach Punch
~ Drain Punch
~ Payback / Ice Punch (still deciding)
A forgotten wonder to be sure, but something that will really piss Team 2 off. For a start, they have nothing to hit it super effectively, and they have (as pointed out), one Fighting Resist in Celebi, which utterly hates Payback (or Ice Punch if we go with it). They can go with Rotom W, thats fine, Conkeldurr can tank that Hydro Pump and Drain Punch back, healing off the damage dealt. It can handle Mamoswine, as well in a similar way, as well as Scizor. It can turn the game around in a flash, and can wreck havok in Team 2's ranks, forcing them to sacrifice pokemon in order to bring it down, making Thundurus / Meloetta / Terrakion all the more threatening. Conkeldurr has access to Mach Punch so it can pick off low health targets if it needs to, letting it revenge kill Infernape if it tries to spam Close Combat. Conkeldurr even has Guts, so Heatran and Celebi are unable to threaten us, since a burn only powers up Mach Punch (making it harder to revenge) and paralysis doesn't really hinder Conkeldurr at all. Therefore, I nominate Conkeldurr to be our final pokemon.
Note: I mentioned a large number of pokemon in this post, such as Politoed and Heracross. I nominated Conkeldurr because it might have slipped through the cracks, and its a pretty good pokemon. With that said however, I also think Heracross, and Politoed would be fine choices, and other people are free to nominate them if they wish.
Please also bear in mind, that this is a community project, atm my biggest fear right now, is people bandwagoning a nomination made by a team captain (like me). Please feel free to be harsh with my nomination, nominate yourselves, it is a community project, and whatever we do decide on, I am confident will be the right choice. Basically, don't vote Conkeldurr unless you genuinely think its a good option, I don't want people voting me just because im the team captain or whatever, ill do my very best with whatever team we end up with.
Go Nuts
Sassy I love you all introduction crap Birkal's addicted too starts here
O.k, we are ending the end of this project, which im sad about, because this has been really fun, and I hope you all enjoyed this project so far. Some of the posts being made here, are simply excellent, and I know many of the OU Staff have remarked on how excellent many of you have discussed things, so firstly, I would honestly like to say Well Done, to everyone so far for your contributions, its been amazing!
Anyway, moving on, its time to completely shutdown Team 2, im a take no prisoners kinda guy, so its time to broadly analyse what they struggle with.
Team 2 weaknesses analysis
Firstly, (and obviously) they struggle with Water attacks. This is patched up with Rotom W and Celebi, but a water type that could deal with those two would really piss them off... (for example, White Herb SS Cloyster can set up on Mamoswine and be a massive (BAN ME PLEASE)).
Secondly, Fighting pokemon really piss them off. They have a grand total of ONE Fighting resist (Celebi), which means that right now, Meloetta and Terrakion can be very threatening, just switching in. Team 2 make up for this weakness, but chucking an ass load of priority on there team, so they can revenge kill our powerhitters, a good tactic, but in return they have lost a lot of there ability to set up and threaten. If we can find something difficult to revenge kill with priority, it would really frustrate them.
What I feel our team should focus on exploiting
Now, onto our team. Firstly, and most importantly, we made this team with Rain in mind. This was not just my idea, but it was the idea I had in the back of my mind, and as such, affected my nominations. The point of this was simple, Rain is by far the most threatening strategy in BW2, and I knew that mentioning Rain time and time again, would really threaten them and force them to teambuild in a way to shutdown Rain. I didn't really mind this, if they were so focused on defending against rain, then they would be open to something else, as rather pleasantly, is the case here today :)
If we were to go down the Rain Route, Scarf Politoed, or Physically Bulky Politoed are good options. On Scarf, we can run HP Bug to nail Celebi if we want, or HP Grass if Rotom W was rly annoying. Scarf actually can threaten Team 2 if Rotom W and Celebi are both down, and Ice Shard and Bullet Punch are NVE which makes it a fairly good choice. It also brings Rain that makes Thundurus and Meloetta so much more powerful, which is hardly a bad thing.
We can also go for a physically defensive bulky toed. This will allow use to check Heatran / Infernape / Mamoswine / Scizor with the threat of Scald, and Protect will shut down Rotom W. If it locks itself into Volt Switch, Thundurus can switch in for free, and team 2 back with its impressive coverage moves. If it locks itself into Hydro Pump well, its NVE against Politoed anyway, and we have Kyurem to bring in to waste 2 PP of it anyway via pressure, and we still regain momentum. The only downside to this is that it makes Celebi slightly more threatening. If we think our team can handle Celebi fine, then Physically bulky Toed would be a good fit, if Celebi is more threatening, we can look at other options.
That said, don't have to go the rain route. We can exploit them being rather fighting weak in other ways. For example, Scarf Moxie Heracross, seems like a fairly decent option, giving us a solid revenge killer, while putting more pressure on Celebi (if it dies, then Heracross can sweep with Moxie CC). This means that Metagross, could also get a fair amount of use, threatening Celebi with a CB Pursuit if it switchs out, or a CB Meteor Mash if it stays in. If the Celebi user predicts wrong, then Heracross sweeps, its as simple as that, the downside is that if it predicts right, we lost a fair amount of momentum, although we can try again. Obviously, priority would also be a slight issue, but on the face of it, Heracross looks like a fairly decent option :)
My boss nomination
Despite all this, its time for me to make my own Nomination. Team 2 is very focused on revenging things, so its time to turn the tables on them, with something exceptionally hard to handle....
Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD (until I get a better spread)
Trait:Guts
Adamant Nature
~ Bulk Up
~ Mach Punch
~ Drain Punch
~ Payback / Ice Punch (still deciding)
A forgotten wonder to be sure, but something that will really piss Team 2 off. For a start, they have nothing to hit it super effectively, and they have (as pointed out), one Fighting Resist in Celebi, which utterly hates Payback (or Ice Punch if we go with it). They can go with Rotom W, thats fine, Conkeldurr can tank that Hydro Pump and Drain Punch back, healing off the damage dealt. It can handle Mamoswine, as well in a similar way, as well as Scizor. It can turn the game around in a flash, and can wreck havok in Team 2's ranks, forcing them to sacrifice pokemon in order to bring it down, making Thundurus / Meloetta / Terrakion all the more threatening. Conkeldurr has access to Mach Punch so it can pick off low health targets if it needs to, letting it revenge kill Infernape if it tries to spam Close Combat. Conkeldurr even has Guts, so Heatran and Celebi are unable to threaten us, since a burn only powers up Mach Punch (making it harder to revenge) and paralysis doesn't really hinder Conkeldurr at all. Therefore, I nominate Conkeldurr to be our final pokemon.
Note: I mentioned a large number of pokemon in this post, such as Politoed and Heracross. I nominated Conkeldurr because it might have slipped through the cracks, and its a pretty good pokemon. With that said however, I also think Heracross, and Politoed would be fine choices, and other people are free to nominate them if they wish.
Please also bear in mind, that this is a community project, atm my biggest fear right now, is people bandwagoning a nomination made by a team captain (like me). Please feel free to be harsh with my nomination, nominate yourselves, it is a community project, and whatever we do decide on, I am confident will be the right choice. Basically, don't vote Conkeldurr unless you genuinely think its a good option, I don't want people voting me just because im the team captain or whatever, ill do my very best with whatever team we end up with.
Go Nuts
haha, looks like my work is cut out for me. Call me crazy for helping myself lose, but hey it's all fun and as long as we can get something out of this there really is no loss on anybody's part.
When testing team 2 (my team) on PS!, I noticed that actually yes Scarf MoxieCross just shits all over (ironic that ginga should bring it up). As does any fast, offensive pokemon with decent defenses- because ginga is again right about the way team 2 resorts to priority to handle threats. With that idea in mind, I fully support Ginga's Conkeldurr.
But an even bigger threat that I noticed was ultimately field effect and hazard control. Hazard control especially- think along the lines of 'no spinner' and 'all pokemon neutral to SR'. Should a defensive pokemon like Ferrothorn manage to set 3 layers on team 2, and use offensive momentum to force enough switches, team 2 will eventually go down to hazards alone- a serious, unfixable, shit-why-am-I-saying-this problem. Rotom, the only actual pokemon immune to Spikes, is choiced and lacks recovery- making it an unreliable go-to. Not only that, but it is completely walled by Ferrothorn- who can use the opportunity to set up. Sure, team 2 has Celebi / Heatran, but those two are the perfect switch in for Terrakion/Kyurem- judging that you predict correctly and don't come in on status. Ferrothorn can act as a bulky pivot/set up- and it's walling abilities are not few. It can take hits from Mamowine, Rotom, and Scizor all day, and set up on every single one of them. Celebi really is the only problem there, as it's immune to Leech Seed stall and it can deal massive damage with HP Fire. But Celebi is excellent set up bait! So here's my submission:
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed nature
~Spikes
~Leech Seed
~Power Whip
~Gyro Ball / Thunder Wave / Protect
Good ol Ferrothorn. Not much of an offensive presensce, but my can this thing get under your skin. With a Rocky Helmet and Iron Barbs, Scizor will be taking more damage when it uses BP on you than you take- and you don't even have to move a muscle. Spikes in general just wears down the opponent, especially since the amount of offensive pressure from team 1 is quite high. Power Whip hits Mamoswine and Rotom hard, not that they'll be staying in anyway though. Gryo Ball only hits Celebi, but with it Ferro can absorb TWave for you. (though this is not recommended b/c HP Fire) Leech Seed gradually steals health and heals you- great payoff. Protect can be used to scout Rotom/Scizor's moves, but again it's not really as if they'll be coming in to you at all. TWave cripples Nape switch ins, hindering it from daring to roast you. Although it may seems like a bigger threat now, Ferrothorn actually handles Nape decently. If 3 layers and Rocks are up, Nape takes 35% every time it switches in. That, coupled with LO recoil and Leech Seed, an infernape that switches into Leech Seed goes down after 1 turn of protect and 3 attacks (or 2 turns of protect and 2 attacks) Should nape switch, the process will be even faster- and even more risky. So I won't be sending in Nape to Ferrothorn at all.
When testing team 2 (my team) on PS!, I noticed that actually yes Scarf MoxieCross just shits all over (ironic that ginga should bring it up). As does any fast, offensive pokemon with decent defenses- because ginga is again right about the way team 2 resorts to priority to handle threats. With that idea in mind, I fully support Ginga's Conkeldurr.
But an even bigger threat that I noticed was ultimately field effect and hazard control. Hazard control especially- think along the lines of 'no spinner' and 'all pokemon neutral to SR'. Should a defensive pokemon like Ferrothorn manage to set 3 layers on team 2, and use offensive momentum to force enough switches, team 2 will eventually go down to hazards alone- a serious, unfixable, shit-why-am-I-saying-this problem. Rotom, the only actual pokemon immune to Spikes, is choiced and lacks recovery- making it an unreliable go-to. Not only that, but it is completely walled by Ferrothorn- who can use the opportunity to set up. Sure, team 2 has Celebi / Heatran, but those two are the perfect switch in for Terrakion/Kyurem- judging that you predict correctly and don't come in on status. Ferrothorn can act as a bulky pivot/set up- and it's walling abilities are not few. It can take hits from Mamowine, Rotom, and Scizor all day, and set up on every single one of them. Celebi really is the only problem there, as it's immune to Leech Seed stall and it can deal massive damage with HP Fire. But Celebi is excellent set up bait! So here's my submission:
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed nature
~Spikes
~Leech Seed
~Power Whip
~Gyro Ball / Thunder Wave / Protect
Good ol Ferrothorn. Not much of an offensive presensce, but my can this thing get under your skin. With a Rocky Helmet and Iron Barbs, Scizor will be taking more damage when it uses BP on you than you take- and you don't even have to move a muscle. Spikes in general just wears down the opponent, especially since the amount of offensive pressure from team 1 is quite high. Power Whip hits Mamoswine and Rotom hard, not that they'll be staying in anyway though. Gryo Ball only hits Celebi, but with it Ferro can absorb TWave for you. (though this is not recommended b/c HP Fire) Leech Seed gradually steals health and heals you- great payoff. Protect can be used to scout Rotom/Scizor's moves, but again it's not really as if they'll be coming in to you at all. TWave cripples Nape switch ins, hindering it from daring to roast you. Although it may seems like a bigger threat now, Ferrothorn actually handles Nape decently. If 3 layers and Rocks are up, Nape takes 35% every time it switches in. That, coupled with LO recoil and Leech Seed, an infernape that switches into Leech Seed goes down after 1 turn of protect and 3 attacks (or 2 turns of protect and 2 attacks) Should nape switch, the process will be even faster- and even more risky. So I won't be sending in Nape to Ferrothorn at all.
ginganinja ginganinjed me on Conkeldurr. That thing looks solid, too bad I'm on a different timezone and there's no way I'm waking up in the middle of the night to post here...
Electrolyte's idea is also good, hazards are a big concern for his team atm (noone was listening to me when I said that about picking Deoxys-D, but w/e). Don't know if Ferrothorn is the best pick to exploit that weakness, but it doesn't look that bad anyway.
I'll think of something and post in a few hours, but I guess it will be hard to find something better than Conkeldurr...
Electrolyte's idea is also good, hazards are a big concern for his team atm (noone was listening to me when I said that about picking Deoxys-D, but w/e). Don't know if Ferrothorn is the best pick to exploit that weakness, but it doesn't look that bad anyway.
I'll think of something and post in a few hours, but I guess it will be hard to find something better than Conkeldurr...
I am not sure on Ferrothorn, Electrolyte. You typed up a damn good post, so well done on that, and it is true that spikes would wear down team 2. My only real problem with it, is that Heatran / Celebi and Infernape can all threaten to destroy any momentum Team 1 can get. Despite what you claim, I highly doubt that Ferrothorn "handles Infernape". Using your example, we need 4 free turns (SR + 3 Spikes), and looking at Team 1, I have no idea how we could get that. Sure, I guess I could bring in Terrakion, and then switch in Ferrothorn on Scizor, but Superpower hits both and ehhh, its a 50/50 coinflip. We can also not spam Leech Seed, since Celebi gets in for free, and its tricky to switch into. Kyurem can go head to head, but Thunder Wave is annoying to switch into, and Thundurus doesn't like taking a +2 Giga Drain / HP Fire. If Infernape gets in safely, we basically lose since it can CC / Overheat everything. Sure, Leech Seed on the switch out hamper it, but considering the following scenario.
Its Ferrothorn vs Scizor, and I have just brought Ferrothorn in on a CB Scizor Bullet Punch (lets say it was Bullet Punching Terrakion). I now have a free turn, I can Leech Seed an Infernape switch, or I can set up Spikes.
If I use spikes and Infernape switchs in, I am royally screwed. If I spikes and Celebi switch in, it gets a free turn.
If I use Leech Seed, I did a little bit of damage to Infernape, and have to switch out, something will die to its CC, and Infernape will be on around 70%. Not really a great scenario. If I leech Seed and Celebi switchs in, I wasted a turn I could have spiked, and gave the free turn to Celebi.
Does anyway see the problem here, its going to be difficult for Ferrothorn to set up Spikes, when if it does so, Infernape can switch in and kill stuff. There is also the fact that Infernape actually 6-0s us, and Ferrothorn does nothing to handle this. While its true that Conkeldurr doesn't wall Infernape, it can go head to head with it, and it threatens to sweep Team 2 at a moments notice (rather like Infernape does to Team 1). I just don't think Ferrothorn is going to work on this team, giving free turns to roughly half of Team 2 sounds like a bad move to me, and I don't really see how it works on Team 1.
Its Ferrothorn vs Scizor, and I have just brought Ferrothorn in on a CB Scizor Bullet Punch (lets say it was Bullet Punching Terrakion). I now have a free turn, I can Leech Seed an Infernape switch, or I can set up Spikes.
If I use spikes and Infernape switchs in, I am royally screwed. If I spikes and Celebi switch in, it gets a free turn.
If I use Leech Seed, I did a little bit of damage to Infernape, and have to switch out, something will die to its CC, and Infernape will be on around 70%. Not really a great scenario. If I leech Seed and Celebi switchs in, I wasted a turn I could have spiked, and gave the free turn to Celebi.
Does anyway see the problem here, its going to be difficult for Ferrothorn to set up Spikes, when if it does so, Infernape can switch in and kill stuff. There is also the fact that Infernape actually 6-0s us, and Ferrothorn does nothing to handle this. While its true that Conkeldurr doesn't wall Infernape, it can go head to head with it, and it threatens to sweep Team 2 at a moments notice (rather like Infernape does to Team 1). I just don't think Ferrothorn is going to work on this team, giving free turns to roughly half of Team 2 sounds like a bad move to me, and I don't really see how it works on Team 1.
I ran calculations and yeah that that Conkeldurr is a bitch for team 2.
It 2HKOes Infernape with drain punch+mach punch, while infernape can only do 70% at most with either overheat or CC and 20-24% with mach punch.
Scizor is the best bet
Bullet punch doesn't even 2HKO (small chance with SR up I guess)
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 120 HP/0 Def Conkeldurr: 44,36% - 52,23%
252 Atk Conkeldurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 248 HP/0 Def Scizor: 41,98% - 49,27% (3 hits to KO)
It is almost always 2HKOed if it takes a hydro pump on switch:
252 SpAtk Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs 120 HP/139 SpDef Conkeldurr: 52,23% - 61,68% (2 hits to KO)
Otherwise conkeldurr wins thanks to drain punch's hp recovery
252 Atk Conkeldurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Rotom-W: 55,79% - 65,7% (2 hits to KO)
I agree that Ferro would be a bad pick. I regret not thinking about Conkeldurr.
Someone can nominate Volcarona (QD/fiery dance (or fireblast)/bug buzz/HP ground) at +1 it sweeps the whole team1.
Mamo takes a lot of damage
252 Atk Conkeldurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 94,48% - 111,88% (68,75% chance to OHKO)
252 Atk Conkeldurr (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 51,38% - 60,5% (2 hits to KO)
but Conk cannot come on EQ:
252 Atk Conkeldurr (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 51,38% - 60,5% (possible 2 hits to KO)
The 1st 3 together can still somewhat deal with it but it's gonna be very hard for team 2.
It 2HKOes Infernape with drain punch+mach punch, while infernape can only do 70% at most with either overheat or CC and 20-24% with mach punch.
Scizor is the best bet
Bullet punch doesn't even 2HKO (small chance with SR up I guess)
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 120 HP/0 Def Conkeldurr: 44,36% - 52,23%
252 Atk Conkeldurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 248 HP/0 Def Scizor: 41,98% - 49,27% (3 hits to KO)
It is almost always 2HKOed if it takes a hydro pump on switch:
252 SpAtk Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs 120 HP/139 SpDef Conkeldurr: 52,23% - 61,68% (2 hits to KO)
Otherwise conkeldurr wins thanks to drain punch's hp recovery
252 Atk Conkeldurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Rotom-W: 55,79% - 65,7% (2 hits to KO)
I agree that Ferro would be a bad pick. I regret not thinking about Conkeldurr.
Someone can nominate Volcarona (QD/fiery dance (or fireblast)/bug buzz/HP ground) at +1 it sweeps the whole team1.
Mamo takes a lot of damage
252 Atk Conkeldurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 94,48% - 111,88% (68,75% chance to OHKO)
252 Atk Conkeldurr (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 51,38% - 60,5% (2 hits to KO)
but Conk cannot come on EQ:
252 Atk Conkeldurr (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 51,38% - 60,5% (possible 2 hits to KO)
The 1st 3 together can still somewhat deal with it but it's gonna be very hard for team 2.
Really liking that Conkeldurr. Powers up on both T-wave and WoW, can't get hit SE-ively by Team 2 and threatens a lot of them.
Not digging Ferrothorn. Kills our momentum and, as Ginga said, gives a lot of T2 free turns.
Now, for my suggestion:
Lucario@ Life Orb
Justified (Doesn't actually matter, T2 has no dark nor flinching moves)
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
Jolly (/Adamant)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Extremespeed
At +2, Lucario "outspeeds" one way or another and OHKOes the entirety of T2 save for Rotom-W (who can outspeed and KO) but that's handled by Kyurem anyway. A Jolly nature is necessary to outspeed Celebi and OHKO with Crunch. Mamo, Scizor and Heatran are all OHKOed by +2 CC, and Lucario resists their priority. I heard Infernape likes to priority, so I put some priority on our priority so we can KO past his priority. Adamant nature can be used over Jolly if KOing 'Nape without rocks is a necessity, but I think outspeeding Celebi is more important.
Getting Lucario in is a different story - he can only come in a predicted Ice Shard / SE from Mamo or after Heatran / Mamo has killed something, but successfully getting him on the field can be very rewarding, even if we don't SD up.
Not digging Ferrothorn. Kills our momentum and, as Ginga said, gives a lot of T2 free turns.
Now, for my suggestion:
Lucario@ Life Orb
Justified (Doesn't actually matter, T2 has no dark nor flinching moves)
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
Jolly (/Adamant)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Extremespeed
At +2, Lucario "outspeeds" one way or another and OHKOes the entirety of T2 save for Rotom-W (who can outspeed and KO) but that's handled by Kyurem anyway. A Jolly nature is necessary to outspeed Celebi and OHKO with Crunch. Mamo, Scizor and Heatran are all OHKOed by +2 CC, and Lucario resists their priority. I heard Infernape likes to priority, so I put some priority on our priority so we can KO past his priority. Adamant nature can be used over Jolly if KOing 'Nape without rocks is a necessity, but I think outspeeding Celebi is more important.
Getting Lucario in is a different story - he can only come in a predicted Ice Shard / SE from Mamo or after Heatran / Mamo has killed something, but successfully getting him on the field can be very rewarding, even if we don't SD up.
Celebi:
+0 Close Combat: 28.78 - 33.83%
+0 ExtremeSpeed: 25.5 - 30.05%
+0 Crunch: 51.01 - 60.1%
+2 Crunch: 113.23 - 133.52%
Mamoswine:
+0 Close Combat: 150.82 - 177.9%
+0 ExtremeSpeed: 33.7 - 39.77%
+0 Crunch: 33.7 - 39.77%
Heatran:
+0 Close Combat: 112.2 - 132.46%
Rotom:
+0 Close Combat: 88.42 - 104.54%
+0 ExtremeSpeed: 39.66 - 46.69%
+2 ExtremeSpeed: 78.51 - 92.56%
Scizor:
+0 Close Combat: 66.47 - 78.13%
+2 Close Combat: 131.77 - 155.68%
Infernape:
+2 ExtremeSpeed: 90.78 - 107.16%
+0 Close Combat: 28.78 - 33.83%
+0 ExtremeSpeed: 25.5 - 30.05%
+0 Crunch: 51.01 - 60.1%
+2 Crunch: 113.23 - 133.52%
Mamoswine:
+0 Close Combat: 150.82 - 177.9%
+0 ExtremeSpeed: 33.7 - 39.77%
+0 Crunch: 33.7 - 39.77%
Heatran:
+0 Close Combat: 112.2 - 132.46%
Rotom:
+0 Close Combat: 88.42 - 104.54%
+0 ExtremeSpeed: 39.66 - 46.69%
+2 ExtremeSpeed: 78.51 - 92.56%
Scizor:
+0 Close Combat: 66.47 - 78.13%
+2 Close Combat: 131.77 - 155.68%
Infernape:
+2 ExtremeSpeed: 90.78 - 107.16%
Lucario is a good suggestion, but Conkeldurr is just better IMHO thanks to its ability to regain lost health with Drain Punch, absorb status and be in general more bulky.
After some thought, I'm persuaded that we have basically three choices (four if you include Toed, but it doesn't seem overly effective at this point):
Let me justify my ideas a bit. Conkeldurr is awesome and you just should go back a few posts and read ginganinja's one to realize why. Volcarona, at the moment, can set up on multiple Team Electrolyte's pokes, has resistance to all of their priorities, can outspeed everything at +1 even with a Modest nature and OHKO everything thanks to the coverage given by Fiery Dance, Bug Buzz and HP Ground. It's risky because Stealth Rock will be eventually used by them, thus you either try to sweep before that, or just accept to take 50% damage while switching in. As for the spike user, Electrolyte's post was really enlightening, and remembered me something I had already pointed out earlier in the picking process. Their whole defensive core is weak to hazards, and since Team ginganinja already forces many switches with its offensive prowess, stacking even one layer of Spikes on top of those rocks can be extremely painful. However, using Ferrothorn basically gives away all of our momentum, allowing Scizor to switch in and threaten basically our whole team with Superpower / U-Turn, or just Heatran that can roast it or set up / throw status away. I thought about other Spikes users; Forretress is quite unviable since they carry Heatran, Infernape, Rotom-W (Forretress has pitiful SpD) and HP Fire on Celebi. Roserade can be somewhat useful, but still has awful Def and can be basically killed by Mamoswine after little residual damage, or just roasted by Infernape. Skarmory can phaze, but it's just a bait for Rotom to come in and hit something hard, and still doesn't counter anything particularly well (Mamoswine will eventually KO it thanks to repeated, LO boosted Ice attacks). Cloyster is terrible, and then...there's Deoxys-D. It was already suggested multiple times, and always rejected, but still it's the most useful Spiker at the moment for Team ginganinja. Let me suggest a set:
Deoxys-D @ Fire Gem
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 236 HP / 88 SpA / 184 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Spikes
- Recover
- Taunt
- Hidden Power Fire
Being our last pick, we can tailor make our Deoxys-D to annoy the hell out of Team Electrolyte right now, and this set will do the trick perfectly. This is basically the Fast Spiker set onsite, but with a few differences. First of all, the EV spread:186184 Speed Timid allows it to outspeed Celebi, Heatran, Mamoswine and Scizor, and enable it to Taunt the first two, Recover on Mamoswine, and roast Scizor with HP Fire (88 SpA and Fire Gem are just enough to OHKO 100% of the times after SR). The rest is pumped into HP to improve survivability. Now, using HP Fire can be a letdown since you cannot hit Heatran and will do pitiful damage to many others. However, Deoxys-D can handle those threats in other ways. For example, Heatran is basically useless after a Taunt, since Lava Plume is not even guaranteed to 4HKO, and it can be PP stalled thanks to Pressure, if need be. Same story for Infernape, that cannot 2HKO with Overheat (hey, our team needed an Infernape counter? Here it is!), and will kill itself with Life Orb before doing something significant. Same story for Mamoswine (okay, this may not be the best idea, but still, EQ won't do more than 55%, so after Recover it's dealing 5% damage max to Deoxys and 10% recoil to Mamo, at worst!). Same for Celebi, which can be hit with HP Fire if it's really important to bring it down. The main plus of HP Fire over Night Shade is that Scizor can't switch in and just threaten to U-Turn out, OHKOing or crippling our Metagross / genie. The only remotely threatening poke in Team Electrolyte is Rotom-W, since Trick screws Deoxys greatly, but that's it. Everything else just cannot break Deo-D's huge defenses, and will be stalled somewhat or forced to switch, and there will be plenty of opportunities to lay some Spikes inbetween. Carrying Night Shade / Toxic is an alternative, but it puts pressure on our U-Turn absorbers since Deo-D cannot dispose of Scizor anymore, so IMHO is not the best choice. Of course, this thing may seem weird, but it seems to work wonders, and thus I'm suggesting it as a last member of Team ginganinja.
I'd really like some feedback on this, since it's maybe the first non-standard set I'm suggesting, and it can potentially make a big difference in the match-up. Thank you everyone that had the time and will to read that huge textwall, and thank you even more for your replies.
After some thought, I'm persuaded that we have basically three choices (four if you include Toed, but it doesn't seem overly effective at this point):
- Conkeldurr;
- an offensive Volcarona, like the one mentioned by HolyAvatar;
- a Spikes user.
Let me justify my ideas a bit. Conkeldurr is awesome and you just should go back a few posts and read ginganinja's one to realize why. Volcarona, at the moment, can set up on multiple Team Electrolyte's pokes, has resistance to all of their priorities, can outspeed everything at +1 even with a Modest nature and OHKO everything thanks to the coverage given by Fiery Dance, Bug Buzz and HP Ground. It's risky because Stealth Rock will be eventually used by them, thus you either try to sweep before that, or just accept to take 50% damage while switching in. As for the spike user, Electrolyte's post was really enlightening, and remembered me something I had already pointed out earlier in the picking process. Their whole defensive core is weak to hazards, and since Team ginganinja already forces many switches with its offensive prowess, stacking even one layer of Spikes on top of those rocks can be extremely painful. However, using Ferrothorn basically gives away all of our momentum, allowing Scizor to switch in and threaten basically our whole team with Superpower / U-Turn, or just Heatran that can roast it or set up / throw status away. I thought about other Spikes users; Forretress is quite unviable since they carry Heatran, Infernape, Rotom-W (Forretress has pitiful SpD) and HP Fire on Celebi. Roserade can be somewhat useful, but still has awful Def and can be basically killed by Mamoswine after little residual damage, or just roasted by Infernape. Skarmory can phaze, but it's just a bait for Rotom to come in and hit something hard, and still doesn't counter anything particularly well (Mamoswine will eventually KO it thanks to repeated, LO boosted Ice attacks). Cloyster is terrible, and then...there's Deoxys-D. It was already suggested multiple times, and always rejected, but still it's the most useful Spiker at the moment for Team ginganinja. Let me suggest a set:
Deoxys-D @ Fire Gem
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 236 HP / 88 SpA / 184 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Spikes
- Recover
- Taunt
- Hidden Power Fire
Being our last pick, we can tailor make our Deoxys-D to annoy the hell out of Team Electrolyte right now, and this set will do the trick perfectly. This is basically the Fast Spiker set onsite, but with a few differences. First of all, the EV spread:
I'd really like some feedback on this, since it's maybe the first non-standard set I'm suggesting, and it can potentially make a big difference in the match-up. Thank you everyone that had the time and will to read that huge textwall, and thank you even more for your replies.
Temp V1
Movin' at the speed of life and I can't slow down
Well you went to the effort of typing that up so I'll give my thoughts. You're right in saying that as far as spikes goes Deoxys is by far the best fit for team 1 currently. The fact that the set can be tailor made to annoy team 1 is also quite a useful asset, although there is really a limit to the capabilities of Deoxys if it still wants to be effective. Once it sets up spikes and fired off one HP-Fire, it isn't really much use apart from taking hits and dealing minute amounts of damage. If it was used to PP stall out Rotom's Hydro Pump okay, but otherwise it becomes dead weight. That set does outspeed Celebi, which means it can Taunt before Celebi can do anything, although for example if it comes in on a T-Wave, Celebi can easily set up a NP then hit it with a Giga drain doing 65.21 - 76.58%, a guaranteed 2HKO, while HP-Fire does only 31.63 - 37.28% with the fire gem, and only 21.46 - 25.42% without.
Deoxys-D @ Fire Gem
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 234 HP / 88 SpA / 186 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Spikes
- Recover
- Taunt
- Hidden Power Fire
Being our last pick, we can tailor make our Deoxys-D to annoy the hell out of Team Electrolyte right now, and this set will do the trick perfectly. This is basically the Fast Spiker set onsite, but with a few differences. First of all, the EV spread: 186 Speed Timid allows it to outspeed Celebi, Heatran, Mamoswine and Scizor, and enable it to Taunt the first two, Recover on Mamoswine, and roast Scizor with HP Fire (88 SpA and Fire Gem are just enough to OHKO 100% of the times after SR). The rest is pumped into HP to improve survivability. Now, using HP Fire can be a letdown since you cannot hit Heatran and will do pitiful damage to many others. However, Deoxys-D can handle those threats in other ways. For example, Heatran is basically useless after a Taunt, since Lava Plume is not even guaranteed to 4HKO, and it can be PP stalled thanks to Pressure, if need be. Same story for Infernape, that cannot 2HKO with Overheat (hey, our team needed an Infernape counter? Here it is!), and will kill itself with Life Orb before doing something significant. Same story for Mamoswine. Same for Celebi, which can be hit with HP Fire if it's really important to bring it down. The main plus of HP Fire over Night Shade is that Scizor can't switch in and just threaten to U-Turn out, OHKOing or crippling our Metagross / genie. The only remotely threatening poke in Team Electrolyte is Rotom-W, since Trick screws Deoxys greatly, but that's it. Everything else just cannot break Deo-D's huge defenses, and will be stalled somewhat or forced to switch, and there will be plenty of opportunities to lay some Spikes inbetween. Carrying Night Shade / Toxic is an alternative, but it puts pressure on our U-Turn absorbers since Deo-D cannot dispose of Scizor anymore, so IMHO is not the best choice. Of course, this thing may seem weird, but it seems to work wonders, and thus I'm suggesting it as a last member of Team ginganinja.
I'd really like some feedback on this, since it's maybe the first non-standard set I'm suggesting, and it can potentially make a big difference in the match-up. Thank you everyone that had the time and will to read that huge textwall, and thank you even more for your replies.
That means that if Celebi either has a NP up, or gets a T-Wave off, Deoxys becomes an instant liability, and if it has only managed to set up one layer of spikes, it is almost a wasted slot. In regards to countering Ape, that would be Deoxys' most useful attribute for the team, as right now Ape goes to town on the team. If it was designed to be an Ape counter, then it would require slight variation in the moves and EVs, which would then open it up to being vulnerable to Scizor as you mentioned. While this Deoxys set is potentially useful, if team 1 would rather have spikes than another offensive mon, there are potential variations that could be made. Although the way team 2 is now constructed, whatever set is used there is likely to be some potentially threatening weakness. That said 3 layers of spikes and stealth rocks would really piss team 2 off, so I think it really comes down to exactly which team 1 would prefer: Less damage output and more residual damage, or less residual and more fast-paced damage output.
Personally I quite like the set as it does its job effectively, although against team 2 in particular there could be a few tweaks. Feel free to disregard that if you want, just my thoughts :)
EDIT:
On Conkeldurr
Thought I might as well add my thoughts on Conk. It is indeed incredibly effective against team 2, and when thinking about the 6th member of the team there was a reason I wanted a fighting resist. Conk is bulky enough to take a few hits, and it has it's own priority, as well as access to good healing. So it can be a big pain in the ass for team 2. However it can be played around fairly easily with proper predictions and skill. Below are a few calcs to back this up.
- Conkledurr v Celebi: Ice Punch: 192-226 (54.08 - 63.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- Conkeldurr v Celebi: Payback: 254-300 (71.54 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
From that its quite clear that Payback would be the better move for the fourth slot, as it will be more useful against team 2 in general. However Celebi isn't entirley defenseless. This is what a Giga Drain, and +2 Giga Drain do to Conk.
Celebi v Conkeldurr: Giga Drain: (45.14 - 53.54%) -- 1.17% chance to 2HKO
Celebi v Conkeldurr: Giga Drain +2: (90.02 - 106.29%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
As evidenced, Celebi can deal with Conk if its already at that ~50% Hp mark, or if Celebi can get a NP up Conk is in serious trouble. The biggest thing that I'm potentially missing with these calcs, is that I haven't factored in Guts. That means that team 2 has to be careful with firing off random WoWs and T-Waves, although T-Wave is already risky due to Thundurus. Heres a hypothetical situation; Celebi comes in on an unboosted Drain Punch at 100% with rocks up. Drain Punch deals 20.28 - 23.66%, Conk ends up at 100% Hp. At this point Celebi could be at ~ 63.84% Hp worse case. Celebi could then Giga Drain dealing 45.14 - 53.54% and taking its Hp back into a range where it could potentially live a Payback (after LO recoil). After the Payback hits Celebi would be at a rather low Hp, although an un-boosted Mach Punch only deals 10.73 - 12.71%, so Celebi should be doing okay. Celebi can then proceed to Giga Drain again, and if it fails to 2HKO (which is like 99% likely), then Conk will be such low Hp that any of the three priorities already on team 2 can revenge it. Realistically in this scenario Conk is the winner, lets throw a wrench into the works shall we?
Lets say similiar situation, Conk at 100% Hp, no Bulk Ups, although this time his opponent is Rotom. Rotom has two options.
1. Hydro Pump straight up: 52.23 - 61.67%, that hurts. Although Conk can easily Drain Punch doing 55.78 - 65.7%, which means Rotom loses the match up in two turns, and Conk leaves at full health, or very close to.
2.VoltSwitch, 30.7 - 36.22%. VoltSwitch as Conk goes for the Drain Punch, into Celebi. Then proceed to do what I stated earlier. The benefit of this is that Celebi doesn't have to be coming in at 100% Hp, ~65%+ would do nicely.
The final thing I have to say in that match up, if Conk is facing Celebi at under 80% Hp, or if Celebi has a Nasty Plot up, Conk loses quite quickly. Although those conditions are a little more ideal, so the more realistic ones I mentioned earlier are probably those best taken into consideration. All in all, Conk does do quite a nice job at threatening team 2. However, like anything at this point, it can be adequately dealt with through proper prediction and playstyle. There are obviously many more scenarios which one could argue, such as the easy 44.35 - 52.23% that Scizors BP would do allowing a weakened Conk to be easy pickings. However a smarter and more conservative approach shows that even though Celebi is the only fighting resist, it can hold its own against Conk. Open to criticism on that :p
Thats my thoughts on Conk.
On Lucario
Oh, and just quickly. Lucario is a nice thought, although Apes Mach Punch is a big problem for it. If Ape is near full health, and the same for Luc, Extremespeed isn't going to ko, but Mach Punch will: 83.68 - 98.58%. That coupled with the less than ideal amount of safe switch ins makes it kind of hard to be effective, although if it does get in and get a safe Swords Dance, team 2 is going to know about it. Nice set in all.
OK, going to re-suggest a guy I proposed earlier in the process but now that we have the full Team 2 on show I can see just how useful it can be:
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Modes Nature
Trait: Flash Fire
4 HP / 252 SpAtt / 252 Spe
~Fire Blast
~Shadow Ball
~Energy Ball
~Hidden Power Fighting
Scarfed Chandelure outspeeds everything on Team 2 except for Rotom while it holds it's scarf. It resists Mamoswine's and Scizor's priority and is immune to 3 out Infernape's 4 attacks.
It is a revenge killer that's extremely suited to the task of coming in on any weakened member of Team 2 and finishing it off, or putting a severe dent in anything that switches into it's coverage moves.
Let's see how it pairs up against Team 2 then.
Scizor:
Bullet Punch - 252Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 4HP/0Def Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 33% - 39% (88 - 104 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
U-Turn - 252Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) U-turn vs 4HP/0Def Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 19% - 22% (51 - 60 HP). Guaranteed 6HKO.
Is immune to Superpower.
252Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Pursuit vs 4HP/0Def Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 90% - 106% (236 - 278 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 38% chance to OHKO.
Moral of the story is to not get pursuit trapped, but we already know that!
And in return: Fire Blast is a OHKO, HP Fighting is guaranteed 2HKO, Shadowball has a 25% chance to 2HKO and I didn't even bother with Energy Ball.
Celebi
Giga Drain - 252SpAtk +2 Celebi (+SAtk) Giga Drain vs 4HP/0SpDef Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 46% - 54% (123 - 144 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 15% chance to 2HKO.
Immune to HP Fire and gets a Flash Fire boost.
Celebi is our bitch as we can KO with both Fire Blast and Shadow Ball. Don't get caught by T-Wave though!
Heatran
Earth Power - 0SpAtk Flash Fire Heatran (Neutral) Earth Power vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 67% - 80% (178 - 210 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Really don't want to be switching into that Earth Power but being immune to everything else does help.
252SpAtk +2 Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fighting) vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Flash Fire Heatran (+SpDef): 59% - 69% (228 - 270 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Can revenge Kill Heatran once it's taken 31% damage or can 2HKO if Team 2 mispredicts your Fire Blast.
Mamoswine
EQ and Stone Edge are OHKO's. This is the member of Team 2 that gives Chandy nightmares.
Ice Shard - Does 19-22%
Icicle Spear - Does 12.5 - 14.5% per hit
And in return:
252SpAtk Chandelure (Neutral) Fire Blast vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Thick Fat Mamoswine (Neutral): 88% - 104% (322 - 379 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 29% chance to OHKO.
252SpAtk Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fighting) vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Thick Fat Mamoswine (Neutral): 69% - 81% (250 - 296 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252SpAtk Chandelure (Neutral) Energy Ball vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Thick Fat Mamoswine (Neutral): 79% - 93% (286 - 338 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Neither of these 2 mons want to be switching into eachother really and Shadow Ball is another 2HKO.
Rotom
Hydro-Pump is a 1HKO. Don't switch into it. It's faster. End of story!
252SpAtk Rotom (Neutral) Volt Switch vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 41% - 49% (109 - 129 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252SpAtk Rotom (Neutral) Thunderbolt vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 56% - 66% (147 - 174 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
However, if it loses that Scarf somewhere Chandelure's excellent revenge killing skills can come into play!
252SpAtk Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral) Energy Ball vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Levitate Rotom (Neutral): 74% - 87% (180 - 212 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252SpAtk Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral) Shadow Ball vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Levitate Rotom (Neutral): 55% - 65% (135 - 159 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
And finally, Infernape:
Stone Edge is a 1HKO but as Chandelure is immune to his other 3 moves it can revenge kill with impunity as it doesn't need to worry about Mach Punch.
252SpAtk Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral) Shadow Ball vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Infernape (Neutral): 63% - 75% (187 - 222 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
In closing, whether we pick Chandelure or not, I had a load of fun writing this post and taking part in this project all the way through. I can't wait to see the final match :)
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Modes Nature
Trait: Flash Fire
4 HP / 252 SpAtt / 252 Spe
~Fire Blast
~Shadow Ball
~Energy Ball
~Hidden Power Fighting
Scarfed Chandelure outspeeds everything on Team 2 except for Rotom while it holds it's scarf. It resists Mamoswine's and Scizor's priority and is immune to 3 out Infernape's 4 attacks.
It is a revenge killer that's extremely suited to the task of coming in on any weakened member of Team 2 and finishing it off, or putting a severe dent in anything that switches into it's coverage moves.
Let's see how it pairs up against Team 2 then.
Scizor:
Bullet Punch - 252Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 4HP/0Def Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 33% - 39% (88 - 104 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
U-Turn - 252Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) U-turn vs 4HP/0Def Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 19% - 22% (51 - 60 HP). Guaranteed 6HKO.
Is immune to Superpower.
252Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Pursuit vs 4HP/0Def Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 90% - 106% (236 - 278 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 38% chance to OHKO.
Moral of the story is to not get pursuit trapped, but we already know that!
And in return: Fire Blast is a OHKO, HP Fighting is guaranteed 2HKO, Shadowball has a 25% chance to 2HKO and I didn't even bother with Energy Ball.
Celebi
Giga Drain - 252SpAtk +2 Celebi (+SAtk) Giga Drain vs 4HP/0SpDef Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 46% - 54% (123 - 144 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 15% chance to 2HKO.
Immune to HP Fire and gets a Flash Fire boost.
Celebi is our bitch as we can KO with both Fire Blast and Shadow Ball. Don't get caught by T-Wave though!
Heatran
Earth Power - 0SpAtk Flash Fire Heatran (Neutral) Earth Power vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 67% - 80% (178 - 210 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Really don't want to be switching into that Earth Power but being immune to everything else does help.
252SpAtk +2 Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fighting) vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Flash Fire Heatran (+SpDef): 59% - 69% (228 - 270 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Can revenge Kill Heatran once it's taken 31% damage or can 2HKO if Team 2 mispredicts your Fire Blast.
Mamoswine
EQ and Stone Edge are OHKO's. This is the member of Team 2 that gives Chandy nightmares.
Ice Shard - Does 19-22%
Icicle Spear - Does 12.5 - 14.5% per hit
And in return:
252SpAtk Chandelure (Neutral) Fire Blast vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Thick Fat Mamoswine (Neutral): 88% - 104% (322 - 379 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 29% chance to OHKO.
252SpAtk Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fighting) vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Thick Fat Mamoswine (Neutral): 69% - 81% (250 - 296 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252SpAtk Chandelure (Neutral) Energy Ball vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Thick Fat Mamoswine (Neutral): 79% - 93% (286 - 338 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Neither of these 2 mons want to be switching into eachother really and Shadow Ball is another 2HKO.
Rotom
Hydro-Pump is a 1HKO. Don't switch into it. It's faster. End of story!
252SpAtk Rotom (Neutral) Volt Switch vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 41% - 49% (109 - 129 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252SpAtk Rotom (Neutral) Thunderbolt vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral): 56% - 66% (147 - 174 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
However, if it loses that Scarf somewhere Chandelure's excellent revenge killing skills can come into play!
252SpAtk Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral) Energy Ball vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Levitate Rotom (Neutral): 74% - 87% (180 - 212 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252SpAtk Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral) Shadow Ball vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Levitate Rotom (Neutral): 55% - 65% (135 - 159 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
And finally, Infernape:
Stone Edge is a 1HKO but as Chandelure is immune to his other 3 moves it can revenge kill with impunity as it doesn't need to worry about Mach Punch.
252SpAtk Flash Fire Chandelure (Neutral) Shadow Ball vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Infernape (Neutral): 63% - 75% (187 - 222 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
In closing, whether we pick Chandelure or not, I had a load of fun writing this post and taking part in this project all the way through. I can't wait to see the final match :)
Ferrothorn, Lucario and Volcarona are bad mons, and do nothing to solve our biggest weakness: Infernape. Yeah Lucario and Volcarona can sweep after 1 turn of set-up, and Ferrothorn can provide spikes, while also being annoying in general, but what do we do about Infernpape? All this mons are easily ohkoed by him, and Nape doesn't even need 1 free turn. Hell it can just lead and destroy the whole team, except from the Terrakion speed tie. And this is unacceptable.
Deoxys-D and Conk, however are both wonderfull options! Deoxys-D walls Infernape and sets up on him, which is brilliant. He can also prevent any set-up from team 2 (except from Trick), and easily set-up Spikes, making the game hell for team 2. He also gets a ton of switch in opportunites. For now i think he is the best pick! Conk is a close second, as he also gets a lot of set-up opportunities, and wrecks team 2 after a boost, BUT he can't counter Infernape, only check, and this is why he goes second.
Deoxys-D and Conk, however are both wonderfull options! Deoxys-D walls Infernape and sets up on him, which is brilliant. He can also prevent any set-up from team 2 (except from Trick), and easily set-up Spikes, making the game hell for team 2. He also gets a ton of switch in opportunites. For now i think he is the best pick! Conk is a close second, as he also gets a lot of set-up opportunities, and wrecks team 2 after a boost, BUT he can't counter Infernape, only check, and this is why he goes second.
Yea, right about now, Conkeldurr and Deoxys-D are looking the most attractive options right about now. I am fine with either really. Chandelure I don't like, because thanks to Team 2 having Heatran, it really hampers our ability to revenge kill threats, and quite frankly, with the calcs posted I am not that impressed.
I don't see any signs in the OP on this being a private party...
Starmie
Timid Nature @ Life Orb
Natural Cure
52 HP/252 Sp. ATK/204 Speed
-Surf
-Signal Beam
-HP Fire
-Recover
Instead of discussing the move choices in detail, let's go straight into the calcs:
Signal Beam vs. Celebi: 100.28 - 118.3% -- guaranteed OHKO
Surf vs. Heatran: 60.77 - 71.68% -- guaranteed 2HKO (and Starmie shrugs off burns thanks to Natural Cure + Recover, so it can't do much back..also Hydro Pump only does 75.32 - 89.35%, so the extra power doesn't help much aside from maybe a very slim chance to OHKO after rocks)
Surf vs. Mamoswine: 140.88 - 165.74% -- guaranteed OHKO
HP Fire vs. Scizor: 115.45 - 136.44% -- guaranteed OHKO
Surf vs. Infernape: 168.6 - 199.31% -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Special Attack & Life Orb for all of the above, 204 Speed and Timid outruns everything not Scarfed (including Infernape), leftover in HP for a slight boost in bulk. Surf gets the nod over Hydro Pump because, as noted, it gives more consistency without really losing out on any of its KOs. Scald's a very solid option, though, as it still gets the same OHKOs while punishing switches with a chance of burn, but it can miss the 2HKO on Heatran when factoring in Lefties and rocks aren't out (dealing 51.42 - 60.77%), and the only member of Team 2 that'd really mind the burn without being outright KO'd by Scald is Scizor.
In other words, with the sole exception of Rotom-W (which is 3HKO'd at best, but it's choiced and therefore weak to prediction, especially with Thundurus-T around), this Starmie has both the stats and coverage to sweep through Team 2 single-handedly. In addition, its typing gives it resistances to all three of Team 2's priority moves, making a revenge kill exceedingly difficult. In fact, the strongest of the three, Scizor's Bullet Punch, doesn't even do 40%, while the others do around 20% max. On the other hand, it does have a bit of trouble finding a place to switch in, although a combination of Natural Cure, resistance to Heatran's & Infernape's moves, and two other members of Team 2 being choiced alleviates this somewhat. Also Recover.
I should also note that Infernape, the Pokemon that most of the posts above are worrying about the most, can only do 51-60% with Stone Miss to this Starmie, while Close Combat deals up to 53.6% and Overheat tops out at 50%, so it has some room to switch in on it and Recover, barring a crit or luck with SM.
I've been thinking along similar lines. Honestly, I've been watching this thread roll out for quite a while now, particularly Team 2's progress, and noticed back around 2,4 that most of the team has a shared weakness. Now that 2,6 is confirmed, setting that weakness in stone, I feel confident in posting this set:
Starmie
Timid Nature @ Life Orb
Natural Cure
52 HP/252 Sp. ATK/204 Speed
-Surf
-Signal Beam
-HP Fire
-Recover
Instead of discussing the move choices in detail, let's go straight into the calcs:
Signal Beam vs. Celebi: 100.28 - 118.3% -- guaranteed OHKO
Surf vs. Heatran: 60.77 - 71.68% -- guaranteed 2HKO (and Starmie shrugs off burns thanks to Natural Cure + Recover, so it can't do much back..also Hydro Pump only does 75.32 - 89.35%, so the extra power doesn't help much aside from maybe a very slim chance to OHKO after rocks)
Surf vs. Mamoswine: 140.88 - 165.74% -- guaranteed OHKO
HP Fire vs. Scizor: 115.45 - 136.44% -- guaranteed OHKO
Surf vs. Infernape: 168.6 - 199.31% -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Special Attack & Life Orb for all of the above, 204 Speed and Timid outruns everything not Scarfed (including Infernape), leftover in HP for a slight boost in bulk. Surf gets the nod over Hydro Pump because, as noted, it gives more consistency without really losing out on any of its KOs. Scald's a very solid option, though, as it still gets the same OHKOs while punishing switches with a chance of burn, but it can miss the 2HKO on Heatran when factoring in Lefties and rocks aren't out (dealing 51.42 - 60.77%), and the only member of Team 2 that'd really mind the burn without being outright KO'd by Scald is Scizor.
In other words, with the sole exception of Rotom-W (which is 3HKO'd at best, but it's choiced and therefore weak to prediction, especially with Thundurus-T around), this Starmie has both the stats and coverage to sweep through Team 2 single-handedly. In addition, its typing gives it resistances to all three of Team 2's priority moves, making a revenge kill exceedingly difficult. In fact, the strongest of the three, Scizor's Bullet Punch, doesn't even do 40%, while the others do around 20% max. On the other hand, it does have a bit of trouble finding a place to switch in, although a combination of Natural Cure, resistance to Heatran's & Infernape's moves, and two other members of Team 2 being choiced alleviates this somewhat. Also Recover.
I should also note that Infernape, the Pokemon that most of the posts above are worrying about the most, can only do 51-60% with Stone Miss to this Starmie, while Close Combat deals up to 53.6% and Overheat tops out at 50%, so it has some room to switch in on it and Recover, barring a crit or luck with SM.
Chandelure is not really a good idea, Heatran walls it all day after it locks itself into a non-SE move; the thing is also weak to SR and quite slow even scarfed (not a great idea to pick something that doesn't outspeed their scarfer...) thus it seems poor overall.
Starmie, on the other hand, is interesting! It lures out Rotom-W and provides opportunities for Thundurus to come in on the obvious Electric move; also, it has power and coverage to seriously hurt Team Electrolyte, Recover gives it some sort of durability, and it can counter Infernape, since they didn't picked U-Turn as a move. However, in my experience LO Starmie is worn down quite easily since it will take an attack on the switch (which usually deals 40%ish damage at least), take LO recoil to kill the threat, then it's forced out by their Rotom-W, that can also threaten to Trick and render Starmie much less useful. It can turn out well for us, but it's a tad too frail for my liking, and compared to a Conkeldurr or to three layers of Spikes, it's not worth the slot. Still, it could be my third favourite suggestion out there!
Just to reply to Temp V1's post on Deoxys-D: yeah, after it took a T-Wave, it becomes more of a liability than an asset; however, Celebi is basically the only Team Electrolyte's member you absolutely don't want to switch into (aside from Scizor's U-Turn), so just refrain to do so and you're fine. Switching into Rotom is possible, with proper prediction, and all of the other pokes are safe opportunities to get our Deo in. Also, yeah, HP Fire is underwhelming, however on Celebi it's doing the same damage of Night Shade, basically; and still, setting up a layer of Spikes is much better than an attacking move, apart from using HP Fire on Scizor, so that's not a problem either. Once three layer of spikes are down, Deoxys becomes a tad less useful, but it's still a sturdy wall that can take otherwise troublesome attacks and prevent set-up from them, so hardly a wasted slot, IMHO (provided it's played intelligently, of course, but both teams will be played by experienced battlers so no problem about that).
Starmie, on the other hand, is interesting! It lures out Rotom-W and provides opportunities for Thundurus to come in on the obvious Electric move; also, it has power and coverage to seriously hurt Team Electrolyte, Recover gives it some sort of durability, and it can counter Infernape, since they didn't picked U-Turn as a move. However, in my experience LO Starmie is worn down quite easily since it will take an attack on the switch (which usually deals 40%ish damage at least), take LO recoil to kill the threat, then it's forced out by their Rotom-W, that can also threaten to Trick and render Starmie much less useful. It can turn out well for us, but it's a tad too frail for my liking, and compared to a Conkeldurr or to three layers of Spikes, it's not worth the slot. Still, it could be my third favourite suggestion out there!
Just to reply to Temp V1's post on Deoxys-D: yeah, after it took a T-Wave, it becomes more of a liability than an asset; however, Celebi is basically the only Team Electrolyte's member you absolutely don't want to switch into (aside from Scizor's U-Turn), so just refrain to do so and you're fine. Switching into Rotom is possible, with proper prediction, and all of the other pokes are safe opportunities to get our Deo in. Also, yeah, HP Fire is underwhelming, however on Celebi it's doing the same damage of Night Shade, basically; and still, setting up a layer of Spikes is much better than an attacking move, apart from using HP Fire on Scizor, so that's not a problem either. Once three layer of spikes are down, Deoxys becomes a tad less useful, but it's still a sturdy wall that can take otherwise troublesome attacks and prevent set-up from them, so hardly a wasted slot, IMHO (provided it's played intelligently, of course, but both teams will be played by experienced battlers so no problem about that).
Honestly, if Deo-d gets 3 layers up he's done his job and it'll be pretty much GG for T2 because of the switches Meloetta, Terrakion and Thundy-T naturally force.
I agree(d) that Rotom-W is indeed a problem for it, and I appreciate the reply, but I don't think you're giving Starmie a fair chance. For instance, let's say your scenario happens. Starmie is down to around half health, but Team 2 still loses a threat (and with its ability to outright no-questions-asked OHKO 4 out of the 6, and 2HKO a 5th, they will lose it). Even if Rotom-W is still around (which it shouldn't be if you want to use that Starmie to its full potential), you can then switch to Thundurus-T. If Rotom-W uses Hydro Pump, then you can double-switch to Kyurem to SubRoost up. If it KOs Thundurus, or you're forced to sac it, you can even go right back to Starmie, Recover in its face (it takes 35.03 - 41.6%), and kill either it or whatever switches in. If Rotom-W uses anything else, as it most likely will, you either get a free heal & setup on Thundurus, or Rotom-W is now vulnerable to being outsped and leaves Team 2's protection from Terrakion down to Bullet Punch and Infernape (woe be they if the threat Starmie KO'd was one of those).
As for its frailty, you're right: Conkeldurr does in fact have more pure bulk than Starmie. However, what Conkeldurr doesn't have is key resistances to Fire, Water, Ice, Steel, and Fighting, as well as the sheer speed (ignoring priority) to really abuse its coverage. What does this mean for it? Well...
Infernape:
Overheat vs. Conkeldurr: 62.99 - 74.27%
vs. Starmie: 42.33 - 50%
Close Combat vs. Conkeldurr: 59.84 - 70.34%
vs. Starmie: 45.62 - 53.64%
Mach Punch vs. Conkeldurr: 19.94 - 23.88%
vs. Starmie: 15.32 - 18.24%
Mamoswine:
Ice Shard vs. Conkeldurr: 23.62 - 27.82%
Vs. Starmie: 17.88 - 21.16%
Icicle Spear vs. Conkeldurr: 44.09 - 51.96% (3 hits)
Vs. Starmie: 33.21 - 39.41%
Scizor:
Bullet Punch vs. Conkeldurr: 44.35 - 52.23%
vs. Starmie: 33.94 - 39.78%
Superpower vs. Conkeldurr: 59.05 - 69.55%
Vs. Starmie: 44.89 - 52.91%
Celebi:
+2 HP Fire vs. Conkeldurr: 43.04 - 50.91%
Vs. Starmie: 29.19 - 34.3%
Rotom-W:
Hydro Pump vs. Conkeldurr: 52.23 - 61.67%
Vs. Starmie: see above
Heatran (just for the sake of completion, knowing that it doesn't threaten either one anyway) :
Lava Plume vs. Conkeldurr: 33.33 - 39.63% (and potentially Guts kicking in)
Vs. Starmie: 22.62 - 26.64% (and doesn't care about Rotom-W forcing it out because of Natural Cure)
Granted, there are hits that Conkeldurr takes better, namely Stone Edge (which still doesn't OHKO Starmie from either user, even with rocks), Mamo's EQ, Celebi's Giga Drain, and Scizor's U-turn/Pursuit, not to mention Rotom-W's Thunderbolt/Volt Switch (I'd argue Trick hurts Conkeldurr just as much as it would Starmie, though, if not more due to its pitiful Speed). However, Starmie's resistance to many of Team 2's attacks gives it more bulk in practice against those attacks, even dodging some 2HKOs. Most importantly, Conkeldurr is very much at risk of being KO'd without KOing in return if it switches into Infernape's Overheat or Close Combat (Mach Punch only 2HKOs even after -1), while even at worst Starmie takes Infernape down with it, and even that requires rocks out, switching into Stone Edge, and getting hit for max/near-max damage by both it and Mach Punch.
Oh darn, I was going to nom Starmie!
Here are my thoughts:
Politoed - works
Conkeldurr - yes it's bulky after a Bulk Up, but the problem is setting it up in the first place. Heatran can Roar it out and all the other mons are too offensive to safely set up Bulk Ups without being rendered half-dead. Basically, I don't see Conkeldurr making a huge splash, since it shouldn't be too hard wearing it down to minimize its damage output.
Volcarona - SR weakness and no Rapid Spin :o. Won't find many options to QD safely, either. Ironically suffers from the same problem as BU Conkeldurr.
Ferrothorn - Deoxys-D is better
Lucario - Pretty darn good suggestion! One major flaw, though - it's just one more Pokemon that Infernape can destroy. Having no safe switch-in to Infernape sucks.
Deoxys-D - amazing suggestion on par with Starmie! The ability to LO stall mons like Infernape and Mamoswine as well as shutting down Celebi and Heatran is ballin. The only flaw I can see is Heatran's Lava Plume burn would hinder its ability to stall out Mamoswine, and Rotom-W can be a nuisance with its threat to Trick or Volt Switch.
Scarf Chandy - another pro suggestion - but why HP Fighting? HP Ground is infinitely superior for its ability to quickly remove Heatran, as well as being super-effective on Infernape as well. SR weakness and prediction skills is the only thing restricting Scarf Chandy, but still it addresses team 1 issues very well - its weakness to priority and the fact that it has nothing faster than Infernape. I probably support this guy more than Deoxys-D atm.
Starmie - Solves the problem of team 1 without being SR weak and choice locked like Scarf Chandy. Resists all forms of priority dished from team 2 and faster than Infernape! Honestly there's no reason not to use Starmie, imo - it basically screws team 2 good.
One suggestion though - Psychic > Signal Beam. This makes even Rotom-W a shaky switch-in, as it will be 2HKOed by Psychic (so can only switch in once safely). HP Fire already 2HKOs Celebi anyways, and Celebi isn't a major problem for team 1, which is packing Metagross and Kyurem.
Here are my thoughts:
Politoed - works
Conkeldurr - yes it's bulky after a Bulk Up, but the problem is setting it up in the first place. Heatran can Roar it out and all the other mons are too offensive to safely set up Bulk Ups without being rendered half-dead. Basically, I don't see Conkeldurr making a huge splash, since it shouldn't be too hard wearing it down to minimize its damage output.
Volcarona - SR weakness and no Rapid Spin :o. Won't find many options to QD safely, either. Ironically suffers from the same problem as BU Conkeldurr.
Ferrothorn - Deoxys-D is better
Lucario - Pretty darn good suggestion! One major flaw, though - it's just one more Pokemon that Infernape can destroy. Having no safe switch-in to Infernape sucks.
Deoxys-D - amazing suggestion on par with Starmie! The ability to LO stall mons like Infernape and Mamoswine as well as shutting down Celebi and Heatran is ballin. The only flaw I can see is Heatran's Lava Plume burn would hinder its ability to stall out Mamoswine, and Rotom-W can be a nuisance with its threat to Trick or Volt Switch.
Scarf Chandy - another pro suggestion - but why HP Fighting? HP Ground is infinitely superior for its ability to quickly remove Heatran, as well as being super-effective on Infernape as well. SR weakness and prediction skills is the only thing restricting Scarf Chandy, but still it addresses team 1 issues very well - its weakness to priority and the fact that it has nothing faster than Infernape. I probably support this guy more than Deoxys-D atm.
Starmie - Solves the problem of team 1 without being SR weak and choice locked like Scarf Chandy. Resists all forms of priority dished from team 2 and faster than Infernape! Honestly there's no reason not to use Starmie, imo - it basically screws team 2 good.
One suggestion though - Psychic > Signal Beam. This makes even Rotom-W a shaky switch-in, as it will be 2HKOed by Psychic (so can only switch in once safely). HP Fire already 2HKOs Celebi anyways, and Celebi isn't a major problem for team 1, which is packing Metagross and Kyurem.