Creative (and good) Movesets Mk II (READ THE OP FIRST)

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by sax king, Jan 17, 2011.

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  1. Jukain

    Jukain literally jesus
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    Meet Mr. OMG 4TH GEN NOSTALGIA OMG:

    Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 12 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Agility
    - Surf
    - Grass Knot

    Meet SubPetaya Empoleon, Empoleon's flagship set from DPP. I tested it with a 30 second rain team and damn it did well. I have some support, including a Dragon-type killer and rain, as well as Suicide *cough*bestset* Lead Deoxys-D to setup hazards. I literally had the thing setup hazards on a Double Dance Landorus-T that was setting up all over my face and OHKOed it with Psycho Boost. Back to Empoleon. Method of setting up:
    1) Switch into a move that Empoleon is immune to/resists
    2) Use Substitute
    3) Proceed to use Agility (maybe multiple times)
    4) Use Substitute 2 more times while setting up Agility
    5) gg

    It's really that simple. I love this set and definitely look foward to using it more in the future!!! :DDD
  2. Ames

    Ames

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    It is an awesome set but unfortunately was posted two pages back :P
  3. Jukain

    Jukain literally jesus
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    woops I guess it doesn't matter though
  4. the flying afro

    the flying afro

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    Block tyranitar

    Tyranitar is usually very limited in what he can do mainly been given the job of speacil wall choice scarf/band. Block gives him a new lease of life trapping oppents such as spdef heatran and chnsey/blissey
    and proceding to dragon dance away.

    Tyranitar

    252 hp 64 atk 192 spdef

    Dragon dance
    Block
    Rock slide/stone edge
    Crunch/substitute/aqua tail

    Crunch can be useful for stab and substitute is useful to let you set up dragon dances. It also allows you to set up easier protecting you from status. Aqua tail allows you to beat gliscor as well as heatran and other tyranitars
  5. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast improsin + bapongbas gg,,,,,,
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    The only thing Tyranitar will be Blocking is usually something that counters it, making Block almost useless. Blocked a Gliscor? It'll use Earthquake until you die. Rotom-W? It'll burn you and either spam Hydro Pump or simply escape with Volt Switch. Politoed? ...yeah.

    Let's put it this way: Why use Block on Tyranitar for a bad trapper when Dugtrio or Gothitelle do the same thing better?
  6. Alexander.

    Alexander.
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    Imo this set can't work well in BW OU, i'm agree with Arcticblast, but it *can* work in Adv where wall is more used, but I guess, however, that taunt is a superior choice. I will try block anyway.
  7. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!

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    The problem with Block Tyranitar (or really Block/Mean Look anything) is that it won't trap the Pokemon you want to trap. Nothing that Tyranitar or anything else can set up on is going to stay in on it, and you NEED that to happen in order to successfully block them. The very premise of the set is flawed because of this. I say this from personal experience trying a terrible Mean Look Gengar that absolutely sucked. Basically, Trapping moves are almost entirely useless in competitive Pokemon, unless you're trying to lure in and trap a usual counter... which is not something Tyranitar can really do, especially not with the set you have. Indeed I'm not sure ANY block or mean look users can do that effectively.

    The bottom line is that set is never going to work in practice, don't use it.
  8. Alexander.

    Alexander.
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    I'm agree with you in everything except the part about gengar, it isn't like tyranitar, it has hypnosis for sleeping the pokemon that wants to kill with mean look + perish song.
    But hypnosis is very bad because it has 60% of accuracy, so isn't reliable.
  9. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    In theory what you say is true, but in practice not: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472019
  10. Cuban Vader

    Cuban Vader

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    Has anyone tried any set utilizing sky drop? I could see it being effective if taking advantage of passive damage (weather and/or status) as well as a free turn of lefties recovery
  11. BlackLight

    BlackLight

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    This is an interesting idea. Did a little theorymon, and the set I would use might go like this.

    Zapdos@Leftovers
    252 HP, 252 SP Defense, 4 Defense

    Toxic
    Heat Wave
    Sky Drop
    Roost

    The set would work like this. Toxic an opponent, use Sky Drop and Roost when neccesary, and watch as they take obscene amounts of Toxic damage. Heat Wave is for Steels who resist Sky Drop and are immune to Toxic, so it would be pretty necessary. Maybe some Spikes support to discourage switching? This could get annoying, fast.
  12. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego Guys. The thermal drill. Go get it
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    I tried it originally in the early days of BW1 with substitute, and it worked OKAY, the problem is that you need 2 free turns. In BW2, with 2 free turns you could execute a lot worse, but it could see merit on a stall team. In general, toxic spikes would be much more useful, allowing for some coverage/substitute. SubRoost+Sky drop+heat wave sounds like a much better idea to me. I think it would work better on...sigh...articuno, with ice body. The ultimate hail staller, recovering substitutes in a "turn" of sky drop.
  13. BlackLight

    BlackLight

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    You.... I... You just found an actually good niche for Articuno in OU?
    Okay, okay, I got this. Run Agility over Heat Wave on Articuno to make sure it outspeeds what it needs to (Terrakion), and pair it up with a Toxic Spikes user, and then wait until Shadow Tag Chandelure is released, so it rapes the Steel types who'd wall this set. Presto! You've got the greatest annoyance on the planet!
    So the opponent would take
    -Toxic Spike damage
    -Hail Damage
    -Damage from the actual attack.
    While Articuno
    -Heals from Ice Body
    -Heals from Leftovers

    This might actually warrant some usage...
  14. LatiasInDisguise

    LatiasInDisguise

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    I could be wrong, but I believe Articuno gets Snow Cloak instead of Ice Body. Mew and Moltres looks to be interesting alternatives as they can WoW steel types bar Heatran. Dragonite learns it too, though I'm not entirely sure on how to use it on him. And then there's Rain Dish Pelipper...
  15. Ninetale3

    Ninetale3

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    I just checked and it does get snow cloak and not ice body.
  16. Alexander.

    Alexander.
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    This set is nice, but I think that with toxic spikes subroost zapdos is better, I will try your set anyway.
  17. Darth Missingno.

    Darth Missingno. on the shoulders of giants
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    That's just beautiful.
    I think it would probably work best with Moltres, since STAB on Fire attacks means a lot. You'd need a competent spinner to partner it up with, though - I'd suggest Starmie.
    Also, reduce the HP EVs to 248 so you can switch in on SR once more if your spinner is down.


    Anyway, my set...

    SCRAFTY @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
    Ability: Moxie
    Jolly nature
    252 Atk, 4 Def, 252 Spe
    -Dragon Dance
    -Drain Punch
    -Crunch
    -Super Fang

    Super Fang is the main thing that differentiates this Scrafty from your standard Dragon Dance set. I originally conceived this idea for use on a hail team, but he can be effective outside it.
    The basic idea is this: Scrafty has trouble with some walls unless he's accumulated multiple boosts. A Super Fang on the switch mauls most defensive non-Ghost Pokemon, and when this is combined with Stealth Rock damage (and possibly hail/sandstorm, depending on the team), a lot of once-formidable walls are brought into KO range for a +1 STAB move, at which point Moxie allows for steamrolling. Drain Punch is set over High Jump Kick for reliability and recovery (especially important if you choose Lum Berry over Leftovers). In addition to dealing major damage to his own counters, Scrafty can be an invaluable team supporter and stallbreaker - powerful attackers like Terrakion love having Skarmory mangled by Super Fang, and Ferrothorn will be easily crushed by a Super Fang/Drain Punch combo even if you're unboosted. Moreover, cutting the HP of enemy Politoed and Tyranitar in half makes winning the weather war that much easier for sun and hail teams.
    Issues: Without Ice Punch, Scrafty becomes unable to bust through Gliscor without boosts. Tornadus-T can outspeed and OHKO with Hurricane unless you're at +2. Anything that can outrun Scrafty is an issue, really, which makes Terrakion a nightmare if you're unboosted. Mach Punch also mangles Scrafty, so be sure to carry something to take out Techniloom. Sableye can burn you with priority Will-o'-the-Wisp, and while Jellicent won't like taking Crunch, it can come in on Super Fang and burn you before you kill it if you haven't danced yet.
    Good teammates: You're going to want something that can reliably take out Fighting-types, especially Techniloom and Terrakion. Latios deals severe damage to any Fighter bar opposing Scrafty with STAB Psyshock and appreciates having Steel-types eliminated so he can start spamming Draco Meteor, making him one of the best choices on offensive teams. Having a Rapid Spinner on the team is great for removing Spikes and Toxic Spikes that could otherwise pose a problem, and is especially necessary if you're running Scrafty on a hail or sun team (as I anticipate most would be) - Starmie is the premier offensive spinner in the tier, while players with a more defensive approach may want to take Tentacruel for the Toxic Spikes support. Speaking of hazards, the more you have the better - Scrafty's job is to take down walls, so Stealth Rock is a must and both spike variants are appreciated. Strong special attackers like Heatran and Latios like having Blissey eliminated, and can take out Gliscor to ease Scrafty's rampage.
  18. Onicon

    Onicon

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    It looks like there is quite a bit setup necessary to make it work. You haven't mentioned specific walls this one might break, so we assume we are talking about Skarmory and Hippodown (and maybe Swampert). That is in my opinion quite a bit of a hassle considering that they have Leftovers and active recovery. And that is the point: Super Fang is meant to soften walls without active recovery. Those who have can easily stall you until Super Fang runs out of AP. It work wonderfully in UU when you don't have coverage options (note, the only notable tagets would be Bronzong and Swampert because Registeel and Slowbro get mauled by Drain Punch and Crunch), but in OU the premier walls have active recovery or crazy stuff like Poison Heal/Protect. That said, when you actually get them in 2HKO range (very very low, by the way), just attack.

    Edit: Don't use Super Fang on Ferrothorn. It is actually one of the better scenarios when it doesn't have Thunder Wave, because it is OHKOed at +2 and can't really retaliate.
  19. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
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    It's an interesting set but I really don't see it working. If you want to run Super Fang, I think you'd be better off running a defensive set given that Scrafty has great defenses and Shed Skin making stuff like a ResTalk set viable. You're forgetting every time you use Super Fang, that's a free hit your opponent gets on you, heavily limiting your survivability. The main problem here is not being able to break through Dragons / Gliscor, which by running Ice Punch > Super Fang you would actually be able to break through these. While you say Super Fang is for Skarmory and other walls, Scrafty is still never actually breaking through any of these without multiple boosts. Scrafty already has 4MSS, and this just makes it much easier to wall than the standard DD set.
  20. Darth Missingno.

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    If this was on a hail team, as I'd planned, Dragons and Gliscor wouldn't be as much of an issue, but you have a good point about the survivability problem.
  21. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    This is a very useful Heatran setup with a unique EV spread that I use on my team, and it works out very well. Supporting move set can be altered depending on your team.


    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 120 HP / 30 SpA / 232 SpD / 126 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    -Stealth Rock/Toxic
    -Fire Blast/Lava Plume
    -Earth Power
    -Roar

    This Heatran is a mixed set that is meant to be offensive and specially defensive. He has some investment in HP, quite a few EVs in SpD, and a little speed to keep him from being outpaced by Specially defensive Heatran. His Air Balloon allows him to switch into Ground types that only have Earthquake to counter it, and he gets a free turn to either set up rocks, Roar, or revenge kill. He has two attacks, one being Fire Blast which is used mostly to handle Scizor, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and possibly a Venusuar, and the other attack being Earth Power to handle slower Heatran. His two supporting moves are Stealth Rocks and Roar for foiling sweepers and finding a better match up if Blissey or Chansey come around. This set can come to quite a surprise to many, as he can tank Scalds from Tentacreul and and Jellicent better than normal Heatran, and with Air Balloon, he can come into SubProtecting Gliscor who only carries Earthquake, set up rocks, and Roar it out to prevent it from keeping it's substitute up. This Heatran is best used on teams that don't need Heatran to be an offensive powerhouse or a SpD tank, but is best used on a team who needs Heatran to be balanced, as this set IMO, is very balanced. He's best brought in on a free switch, preferably into Landorus or Gliscor so he can set up rocks or prevent Landorus from a Rock Polish sweep. Leading with him is a bad idea, as he is out sped quite often, and you don't want his balloon to pop at the beginning of the battle.
  22. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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    those EVs do look a little weird. for one thing you do not need 124 speed EVs to outrun sdef heatran as those run at most like 12 speed. secondly the "standard heatran" right now is specially defensive (ie 248 hp / 252+ sdef), so by definition it does a better job of taking scalds than your set. what are the benchmarks that it's aiming for? what KOs do those satk investments guarantee, what attacks are you guaranteed to survive with that HP and sdef investment? who do you outrun with 124 speed?

    also, the spread is 4 EVs short, because 126 speed is 2 wasted EVs (124 is equivalent) and 30 satk is another 2 wasted EVs (28 is equivalent).
  23. Onicon

    Onicon

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    So you decided on 221 speed. I can't imagine something important you want to outrun with these so I recommend you to move away a few points. As a matter of fact, there isn't anything interesting but Heatran itself to outrun in this speed tier at all. Gliscor is out of range and there really is no need to conpete with Gyarados. The only Mon worth to mention is Roserade without speed investments which is rare enough already. Furthermore I can't see the point of the additional 30 SAtk; it doesn't look like it can score additional KOes.
    When we straighten the EV spread it basicly turns into SDef Heatran with 16 in speed or more (speed creep). We'd like you to either reconsider your set or explain what kind of advantages it has.
  24. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    To be honest there really isn't anything special it is aimed to KO. It is meant to be a surprise attack to certain Pokemon not expecting a decently powerful Fire Blast on the switch. Here's some examples:

    Max HP Defensive Gliscor:

    65.25%-77.12% 2HKO


    Scarfed or Rock Polish Landorus:

    68.97%-81.19% 2HKO

    Although specially defensive Heatran can also 2HKO these things, after Stealth Rock it can whittle it down pretty close to a OHKO. However it's hard to pinpoint exactly what I want it to KO that Specially defensive doesn't but it hits harder then standard Heatran does on the switch.

    Do you have a better EV spread that can manipulate both offense and defence? I really like the defense, but I still want some extra offense.
  25. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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    this is the problem with running EV spreads that are spread out across a lot of stats: unless you're aiming for something specific, they are usually a waste of EVs. (they remain a waste of EVs even if you're aiming for something specific, but at least you get something out of it if you waste EVs in that way. remember that EVs always reward concentration) you'll have to be more specific about what exactly you want to 2hko, or what you do not want to be 2hkod by. for example to guarantee the 2hko on 252/0 poison heal gliscor or landorus with fire blast, you actually don't need ANY special attack investment.
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