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Creative (and good) Movesets Mk II (READ THE OP FIRST)

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by sax king, Jan 17, 2011.

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  1. Ames

    Ames

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    Why run sub on Reuniclus? Magic Guard protects it from status anyway while sub might only protect it from scizor (that I can think of off the top of my head).
  2. DEMo_Gorgon47

    DEMo_Gorgon47

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    Again, I havent tested it. But in my mind it can use its pretty large Subs to protect itself from damage extra damage while setting up. Meanwhile it will be recovering health every turn thanks to lefties. And once its ready to attack it might even still have a sub up, protecting it from an untimely crit or a paraflinch rachi/kiss
  3. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!

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    I don't think that sub-reuniclus is a very good idea. Usually the idea between sub on a buly set-up Pokemon is to protect against status, and to prevent phazing from Dragon Tail. While the latter is applicable here, the former really isn't, since Reuniclus doesn't mind status at all. More important though is the lack of recovery combined with the lack of speed meaning that Reuniclus is going to take damage setting up a substitute, and won't be able to get Calm minds up before being hit. Reuniclus also has very few resists on which to set up a substitute. This means the substitute is likely to be broken quickly, unlike say Sub-CM Jirachi. Overall I don't see any good reason to use a substitute over Recover, which handles mediumly damaging hits (which for Reuniclus is most hits) better than Substitute and leftovers ever could.
  4. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Fastest man alive
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    Another problem with SubReuniclus is that it loses coverage and healing- it already has enough 4MSS to begin with. If you don't use Calm Mind, the set is pretty useless, and of course you've got to run a coverage move such as Psychic. That leaves one slot for coverage or recovery in Shadow Ball or Focus Blast or Recover. With SB/FB, you will lose HP extremely quickly, since you'll be losing health through subs and you'll have no way to recover. With Recover, any Dark type completely walls you. If you decide to go insane and use SB/FB instead of Psychic, you lose a lot of power, and are still walled by Normal or Ghost types, respectively.
  5. DEMo_Gorgon47

    DEMo_Gorgon47

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    Well actully, on the classic CM set, you don run a Psychic move. You only run SB+FB. The last slot is Recover and usually has a LO attached. So the lack of power argument doesnt really count. The other ones are all valid though.
  6. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!

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    What? On the classic CM set you run Psychic and Focus Blast. Reuniclus has some power, but it doesn't have enough to forgo stab, especially on something as unreliable and low PP as Focus Blast paired with something as low power as Shadow Ball. This is especially true without any investment is Sp.A. You don't get much better coverage with Shadow ball over Psychic anyway.

    I don't know where you're getting your classic CM set, but what you described is nothing like any of the sets here.
  7. DEMo_Gorgon47

    DEMo_Gorgon47

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    Oh, for some reason I thought CM was SB+FB. My bad. Sorry about that.
  8. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold magda is my spirit animal
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    [​IMG]
    Empoleon (M) @ Petaya Berry
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 SAtk / 244 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Agility
    - Substitute
    - Ice Beam / Grass Knot

    This thing is strong and underrated in OU, with 12 Evs in HP you can make 3 Substitutes after activate Petaya Berry. With 244 Evs in Spd you can outrun Darmanitan Jolly with Scarf after Agility.
    Also, Hydro Pump is pretty strong but only has 8 PP and bad accuracy. Grass Knot is other option because Jellicent with Water Absorb is the hard counter of this set but Empoleon without boost Ice Beam is better.

    Rain + Petaya Perry + Torrent = Gg..

    Some damage calcs:

    252 +1 SpAtk Torrent Empoleon Surf vs 252 HP/176 SpDef Tentacruel (+SpDef) : 42,86% - 50,27%
    3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    252 +1 SpAtk Torrent Empoleon Surf vs 128 HP/0 SpDef Rotom-W: 80,22% - 94,51%
    2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    252 +1 SpAtk Torrent Empoleon Surf vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Latios: 71,19% - 83,77%
    2 hits to KO
  9. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
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    The only problem is you can't touch vaporeon in any way whatsoever. I ran into a few of those things, and boy are they strong.
  10. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold magda is my spirit animal
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    If Petaya Berry is activated Empoleon with SR support has chance of 2HKO against defensive Vaporeon, the problem is Protect and Wish Vaporeon, the other versions can lost against this Empoleon. Anyways, Vaporeon really isnt common, use different sets not only the "wish support" and the last option is the critic to defeat ;)
  11. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
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    Well, of course, but if you have a vaporeon you switch right out to it when you see empoleon. Otherwise, you deserve to let a penguin sweep you.
  12. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold magda is my spirit animal
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    Yeh, without Grass Knot the best counter of this set is Grastrodon with EQ/EP.

    Modest is other option over Timid nature but is too slow for the currently metagame.
  13. tehy

    tehy

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    Empoleon is a unique special sweeper, having base 84 / 88 / 101 defensive stats to back up its base 111 Special Attack. As a sweeper, maximum Special Attack through a Modest nature and 252 Special Attack EVs is an obvious choice. Hydro Pump is preferred for the extra power, but it is perfectly fine to use Surf if accuracy bugs you. Grass Knot hits Water-types, and Ice Beam hits Grass-types. Life Orb boosts the power of Empoleon's attacks significantly, but the Air Balloon grants it an immunity to Ground-type moves, a good choice considering the continued popularity of Earthquake.
    Team Options & Additional Comments >>>
    Unfortunately, the Petaya Berry is currently unreleased, but a set with it and Substitute would be superior if it was available. 240 Speed EVs allow Empoleon to reach a blistering 432 Speed after an Agility, helping it to outrun most common threats. The 16 EVs in HP give it an odd amount of HP for residual damage. This set fits well on both rain and sandstorm teams. Gliscor is a good teammate, as it easily sponges Mach Punch and can attack with a STAB Acrobatics. Blissey, Chansey, and the odd Snorlax are also troublesome for this set, so bringing your own Fighting-types to kill or set up on the fat blobs is probably a good idea. Against rain teams, Ludicolo's typing and abilities also help out against common Water-type counters.



    Straight from the B/W analyses, only reason it's not listed is because they were done when petaya berry was unreleased, also standard in gen 4. Cool set, but it's been around for two generations.
  14. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Espeon @ Light Clay
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
    IVs: 23 SpD
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Yawn
    - Baton Pass

    With max Defense and 23 SpD ivs, Espeon has more Defense that SpD, which means that you can set-up one screen against Scarf Genesect, instead of getting forced out. With 252 Def evs you also have ~50% chance to survive a CBTar's Crunch after SS damage, while with 252 HP evs you were always ohkoed after SS damage. Reflect and Light Screen are standard, but the beauty of this set lies on the last 2 moves. With Yawn and Baton Pass, you make sure that nothing can set-up on you with stat-up moves, except from Lum Berry mons, while you also get to scout their switch-in after you use Yawn and Baton Pass to the appropriate teammate.

    This Espeon obviously works well in HO teams. A very good partner for her, is Focus Sash Terrakion with SD, CC, SE and SR. Terrakion can lead against Genesect, if you don't want to risk eating a Bug Buzz with your Espeon, easily setting up SR, and taking everything Genesect can throw at it. Terrakion can also handle any problematic ScarfTar lead easily. He sets up the ever so useful SR with all the switches he forces, and he loves SR being off the field, with Espeon's help, as with Focus Sash he can revenge kill anything not named Cloyster, and even get mini sweeps.
  15. Randombobman

    Randombobman

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    Deceptive Magnezone
    [​IMG]
    Magnezone @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Analytic
    Nature: Quiet/Modest
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/8 SpD
    -Thunderbolt
    -Volt Switch/Signal Beam/Tri Attack
    -Flash Cannon
    -Hidden Power Ice/Fire

    This set aims to take advantage of Magnezone's poor speed, which finally does him a favor. While usually used to trap and kill steel types, this set looks to punch holes in opposing team, using expert belt to fake choice specs. Life orb is a solid alternative though somewhat defeats the purpose of this set. Second slot is your choice depending if you want momentum, more coverage or stronger attack while HP helps round out coverage as well, depending what your team needs more.
    Opinions?
  16. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
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    On wifi, that may actually work as a bluff, but on PS! a big message saying "you are trapped and cannot switch" doesn't really make the bluff work. If you're just going for pure power, however, I suppose it could work, though I'd prefer sub+3 attacks and just come in on a bullet punch.
  17. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    [​IMG]

    Cobalion @ Expert Belt
    EVs: 28 Atk / 230 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Naive
    - Close Combat
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Stealth Rock / Stone Edge / Taunt

    All out attacker Cobalion is very good actually. Check out some calcs:

    • HP Ice vs 252 Gliscor: 100.28 - 119.2%
    • HP Ice vs 200 Landorus-T: 102.71 - 120.86%
    • HP Ice vs 4 SpD Dragonite (w/o MS): 86.06 - 102.47%
    • HP Ice vs Naive Salamence: 114.5 - 134.74%
    • HP Ice vs 4 HP Breloom: 80.53 - 95.41%, ohko after SR, 1 LO round and ss damage while you easily tank one Mach Punch (69.96 - 82.97%)
    • Volt Switch vs 56 HP Gyarados: 82.02 - 97.39%, OHKO after SR and lefties
    • Volt Switch vs 252 HP Skarmory: 56.88 - 66.76%
    • Volt Switch vs 4 SpD Starmie: 62.45 - 74.32%
    • Close Combat vs 4 HP / 252 Blissey: 88.65 - 104.9%, ohko after SR
    • Close Combat vs 4 HP Terrakion: 100 - 117.9%
    • Close Combat vs 0 HP Heatran: 86.99 - 102.47%, ohko after SR 93.75% of the times

    Cobalion is a very useful pivot for offensive teams, with it's useful resistances, awesome physical bulk and good speed. Cobalion is the closest thing you can get to a fast offensive Steel type that can keep momentum. He provides your team with a check to Outraging dragons, easily tanking even a +2 Outrage from all of them and ohkoing back with HP Ice. He also is a decent Gliscor / Landorus-T lure, as not many people expect HP Ice. He is also a wonderful Gyarados check, taking 52.01 - 61.3% from a +1 Waterfall and ohkoing back with Volt Switch (Gyarados can Sub up to take the Volt Switch, but then you get to go to your Scarfer that can outspeed and ohko Gyarados) after SR. Volt Switch is amazing for offensive teams, keeping momentum and damaging checks and counters, such as Starmie and Skarmory. He is also a very reliable SR setter, as his bulk allows him to set it up multiple times with ease. Finally a 4x resistance to SR, immunity to SS damage, Toxic and T-Spikes and no LO recoil mean that Cobalion is one of the most resilient pokes around.

    In the last slot you can use Stone Edge if you alread have a SR setter, to break Gyarados's subs without switching out, deal better damage to Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T (the latter is ohkoes after SR) than HP Ice and prevent any Volcarona from setting up on you. Taunt is also a decent option to prevent any pesky Forretress, Skarmory and Deoxys-D from setting up on you.
  18. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Alexwolf: I remember testing almost that exact set for QC. I didn't like it very much, but for some reason I hadn't considered Expert Belt on it - now that I think about it I'm sure it's the best item available. Perhaps I'll give it another shot.

    Anyway, I know this is not exactly creative, but what do people think about using Toxic Boost Zangoose in OU? I've run a few calcs and that Facade is astonishingly powerful - Zangoose actually 1-2HKOes almost all of OU (even skarm sometimes after SR if running fire punch) and has a powerful priority move at its disposal too. Set would be something like

    Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    - Facade
    - Quick Attack
    - Close Combat
    - Fire Punch / ThunderPunch / Shadow Claw / Swords Dance

    Obviously I'm undecided about the last slot. Generally, it looks powerful but is very frail and lacks resistances completely. This will make it difficult to switch in, but when it does get in safely it can definitely cause some havoc.
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Yeah jc go ahead and try it, just be sure why to use it. Cobalion's niche is that he is a fast offensive Steel type that can fit into Volt-turn teams, and he can also set-up SR (this is a bonus). He can also counter Gyarados, which is awesome. Oh and he is almost immune to most common passive damage. For example Scizor is slow, cannot set-up SR and cannot do anything to Gyarados, nor it can lure and kill Gliscor and Landorus-T (luring and ohkoing Landorus-T is very important because Xatu cannot prevent him for setting up SR). There is no other poke that can do what Cobalion does.

    EDIT: Oh and here is why Cobalion is a boss:

    Bring it on Salamence (open)
    The restart or kick was interrupted by activity.
    The foe's IN FOR THE KILL used Outrage!
    Aerodactyl lost 72% of its health!
    Aerodactyl fainted!
    The foe's IN FOR THE KILL's Moxie raised its Attack!
    The sandstorm rages.
    The foe's IN FOR THE KILL is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    alexwolf sent out Cobalion!
    Turn 18
    The foe's IN FOR THE KILL used Outrage!
    A critical hit! It's not very effective... Cobalion lost 80% of its health!
    Cobalion used Hidden Power!
    It's super effective! The foe's IN FOR THE KILL lost 69% of its health!
    The foe's IN FOR THE KILL fainted!
    The sandstorm rages.
    The restart or kick was interrupted by activity.
    AWOLNATION sent out Born to Die (Latios)!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Born to Die!
    Turn 19
    alexwolf: what a beast!!!!
    alexwolf: a crit +1 Outrage?
    alexwolf: i love u Cobalion :D
  20. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
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    I can definitely agree with alexwolf that Cobalion is pretty damn good, especially with access to SR and Volt Switch. On a different note, here's a cool set. I'm not going to take credit for this set, because I didn't make it. A friend showed me a team with this on, and it's pretty incredible.
    [​IMG]
    Lanturn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 Def / 204 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Scald
    - Volt Switch

    With the hype of Genesect, I've been seeing a lot more VoltTurn teams, especially those in Rain Teams. Lanturn is an underrated team member that fits on pretty well, or you can even use it to deal with offensive rain teams. I've used this set extensively and I can honestly say it is amazing. Probably the best Tornadus-T counter in the game, while also being able to check Thundurus-T. The coolest thing about this set is how Lanturn doesn't give a fuck about status. You can easily switch in on Specially Defensive Jirachi, take a Body Slam para and try to Scald burn. When Jirachi is burned, you Rest up and Sleep Talk. Lanturn doesn't even mind being asleep unlike most Pokemon, and when using Sleep Talk you have a 66% chance to pull a decent move, whether it be potential burning or gaining momentum, which is very handy as Lanturn can play the same role as bulky Rotom, but arguably better. I'm not even going to continue ranting about how good Lanturn is, but looking at the top most used Pokemon in the current metagame, Lanturn can deal with Scizor, Genesect, Tornadus-T, Thundurus-T, Keldeo, Starmie, Heatran, Tentacruel, Rotom-W, Skarmory, Gyarados, Cloyster and even more. Try it, it won't let you down.
  21. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Something just struck my mind:

    [​IMG]

    Chansey @ Eviolite
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Nature: Bold
    - Softboiled
    - S-Toss
    - Toxic
    - Skill Swap

    This is the standard Chansey with Skill Swap instead of Stealth Rock / Heal Bell. Let's see what Chansey can do with Skill Swap...

    It allows Chansey to beat CM Reuniclus 1 on 1 easily. Steal its Magic Guard, give it Toxic and go to town. It allows Chansey to beat SubToxic Gliscor. Come in on Gliscor, and then use Skill Swap, which works through Subs (i haven't seen this being disputed anywhere, but i already asked in the Research thread, and i am waiting for an answer), and watch Gliscor die from his own Toxic Orb, while you heal with the Toxic that he used on you. It lets Chansey escape from Gothitelle, Dugtrio and slow Wobbuffet. It allows Chansey to check BU Breloom. Come in, take everything he throws at you (except from Spore, but why would a Breloom waste Spore on something that is complete set-up bait anyway?) and use Skill Swap. Or do it if Breloom comes into Chansey on a double switch, etc. It allows Chansey to more easily beat Tentacruel in rain. Steal his Rain Dish, and you have instantly have lefties recovery, while Tentacruel can now easily be killed with S-Toss, no matter how many times he uses Protect (Toxic version still beat you, but slowing down his recovery pace is always nice). It allows Chansey to beat any Espeon (and Xatu). Use Skill Swap and then Toxic that bitch, forcing her out eventually (unfortiunately he will get cured when she switches out, due to Natural Cure, but you still beat it 1 on 1).

    Anyway these are the main applications, but i am sure that there are more, albeit situational uses of Skil Swap. But i find it awseome how with one move (Skill Swap), Chansey is now able to deal with many threats for stall teams, such as Espeon and Reuniclus, while also making her virtually untrappable by Tickle + Pursuit sheningang and Reversal from Dugtrio, and RestTalk CM Gothitelle (she can still fuck you up with Trick though). So now that your stall team has Espeon, SubToxic Gliscor and CM Reuniclus covered, you have more flexibility with your other slots, insteaf of having to use specific mons to beat them.

    What are your thoughts about Skill Swap Chansey?
  22. tehy

    tehy

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    My thoughts are that you will probably win the poster of the month-style potato award. I mean, in a way chansey has 4mss, but in another way it totally doesn't-if you've already got an SR layer and don't really need wishes or para, this is an incredible fourth move that will screw with just SO many pokemon, especially gliscor. I personally like the idea of letting Subtoxic gliscor stay in for 16 turns (Don't ask me how), and then skill swapping on the seventeenth for the OHKO.
  23. Ninetale3

    Ninetale3

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    Skill swap chansey looks really promising. Though it looks like it has to pick a poison between its ability as to what is and isn't a gamble. serene grace gives it the ability to mess with gliscor, breloom, and reuniclus, but makes swapping scald abusers not a good idea, except if they pack water absorb as an ability. where as natural cure would allow you to mess with hydration walls and guts abusers to an extent as well as ruin pokemon such as heatran who don't really fear status. However skill swapping natural cure will work against the player when something that is crippled by status suddenly can just switch and wait for round 2.

    I could see skill swap working with chansey as it allows it to get the jump on its counters and checks but is again a gamble.
  24. crynts

    crynts

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    [​IMG]

    Gothitelle (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Psyshock/Psychic
    - Shadow Ball/Signal Beam/Thunderbolt
    - Trick

    Many players have probably encountered a trapper Gothitelle before. Usually though, their job is to trap one pokemon and remove it. This set aims to set up on the pokemon and sweep at the same time. It is supposed to come in on any pokemon that uses a non-damaging move and trick it a scarf. The best case scenario is that the pokemon uses stealth rock or a set up move as you trick it a scarf. You then proceed to calm mind up to +6 + 6 and (hopefully) sweep the opposing team.

    Now, it may be obvious that gothitelle does not have the speed or the (physical) bulk to sweep a more offensive team. If you find that your opponent has a fast team and you can KO the opposing threats with one of your moves, you should trick yourself back the scarf before you KO your set-up fodder and outspeed their team. This set outspeeds Tornadus-T after scarf.

    Quick run-down:

    1. Switch in on set-up fodder
    2. Trick a scarf if you suspect they will use a non-damaging move that isn't status.
    3. Calm mind up.
    4. Trick yourself back the scarf if your opponent has a fast team.
    5. KO the set-up fodder and sweep.

    This set doesn't sweep consistently, I use it mostly to trap and eliminate one threat, but on the off chance they try to set up hazards or sub, They might just loose 6-0.
  25. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
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    Interesting set Crynts, but that does seem very very situational in terms of effectively setting up. The main issue here is the crazy 4mss that Gothitelle has, as when you run Trick / Calm Mind / Psychic / Shadow Ball you still find yourself easily walled, even after a couple boosts. I guess it could work by pairing it with something that beats all of the things that can commonly revenge it, but still that would require a hell of a lot of team support to make it work. It also is worth mentioning that you rely on your opponent not statusing you, or straight up attacking you as you Calm Mind. Things that you would consider using as setup fodder such as Ferrothorn or Chansey still beat this Gothitelle if they Toxic / Thunder Wave / Power Whip etc, as Gothitelle really does not have the bulk to setup vs either of these. The main problem even when sweeping is that you have given away you're Scarfed, and even at +6, your opponent can pretty easily switch into Tyranitar to avoid Psychic and Pursuit trap you, any normal mon avoids Shadow Ball, and even your other coverage moves are not the best to lock yourself into as they have common resists. It's definitely an interesting concept, but I feel like the set in question is trying to do far too much. The Choice Scarf set and the Calm Mind set are two completely different sets, and as a result they function completely differently. They both have their merits and I would have no reason to use this set over either of them.

    @ jc104, Zangoose looks pretty promising, especially with it's ability. It's definitely very hard to switch into, and with Close Combat Steel types cannot risk switching in fearing being OHKO'd on the switch. Kinda sucks Zangoose didn't get Extremespeed, as it could actually be a pretty cool 'mon and have an even stronger priority to boot.
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