Creative / Underrated Sets Thread (Read the thread, NO SHITTY GIMMICKS)

[Blizzard]

I made a half-competitive half-joke team a few days ago with the top 6 Pokemon in the 1337 (okay, more like 1850) stats all running weird sets (except Politoed because Flareon probably has more moves than that bitch). It was mostly a flop. Five Pokemon were Scarf Scizor, Scarf Politoed, Draco Meteor Jirachi, Gravity Ferrothorn and Swords Dance Keldeo. The one set that worked better than I thought, though, was this set:

Rotom-Wash @ Light Clay
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 224 Spd / 252 HP / 32 SDef
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Light Screen
- Reflect

Dual screens Rotom-Wash! This actually works surprisingly well. Rotom-W can force a lot of switches, and studying team preview can give you a pretty good idea of what the opponent will switch into Rotom-W, letting you set up the proper screen. Then you can either set up the other screen or simply Volt Switch out. I haven't really tested this set outside of this particular team (why would I when I can use my stall team?), but it worked exceptionally well on this team and caught several of my opponents by surprise. Try it out :)

Don't you think Will-o-Wisp might be a better option than reflect? Seeing that it permanently gives the effect of reflect? Secret sword might be a problem, but that can be played around with.

 

[Arcticblast]

The point isn't to sweep with a Rotom-W with boosted defenses, the point of this Rotom-W (and any Dual Screens Pokemon) is to allow other Pokemon on your team to set up with ease. If you Will-O-Wisp something and switch out to Haxorus only to watch your opponent switch to Scarf Lando-I in Sand, you've essentially wasted your Haxorus and you've wasted Rotom-W's time in the battle.

 

[Shurtugal]

I like the Rotom-W set, but I'm curious as to what the speed eve hit (literally since I cannot view it on PO or PS on this computer). I suggest hitting either 286 or 290 speed since 286 should outpace all those base 80s (and Jolly Mamo) while 290 gets the jump on max speed adamant Gliscor (though its rare so its more or less up to the user).

My only concern is the lack of power on that Wash. Dual-Screen is usually only ever good for HO teams, and Wash's lack of strength is concerning to say the least. Maybe put the 32 eve away from SDef and into SpA, but even still I would say invest enough to hit a few benchmarks, such as (I would need to play with a calculator to see what eve are needed, but):

2HKO with Volt Switch on Keldeo (+0 obviously)
2HKO on max hp invested Politoed
At least 35% with Hydro Pump on Ninetales in sun, so after SR its quite crippled.
2HKO on Volcarona no weather at +1
40% to Heatran in sun


I'm pretty sure 32 investment should hit most, if not all, those benchmarks. Still though, the extra power would be nice on Wash. I would also AC the move Rain Dance over VSwitch on Pump since its suicide support anyhow and could be handy for opposing weather.

 

[Lavos]

why would you use rotom-w as a dual screener at all? if the argument is "because it also gets volt switch", there's a lot of better pokemon that also get u-turn/volt switch, that also get screens, and can actually do stuff other than screens and switching. stuff like azelf and uxie get rocks and screens and u-turn, so you can get hazards as part of the package too. latios has memento, meaning it can get screens up and make the opponent's offensive stats take a plunge in order to set up a sweep really easily. even magnezone gets the dual screen combo, and can also trap and kill opposing scizor, skarmory, etc. while setting up its screens and volt switching. so i guess dual screens rotom-w is a nifty little set but to me it doesn't serve any real purpose that other dual screeners don't accomplish better.

 

[LudwiG]

why would you use rotom-w as a dual screener at all? if the argument is "because it also gets volt switch", there's a lot of better pokemon that also get u-turn/volt switch, that also get screens, and can actually do stuff other than screens and switching. stuff like azelf and uxie get rocks and screens and u-turn, so you can get hazards as part of the package too. latios has memento, meaning it can get screens up and make the opponent's offensive stats take a plunge in order to set up a sweep really easily. even magnezone gets the dual screen combo, and can also trap and kill opposing scizor, skarmory, etc. while setting up its screens and volt switching. so i guess dual screens rotom-w is a nifty little set but to me it doesn't serve any real purpose that other dual screeners don't accomplish better.

Better type synergy in some teams, maybe.

 

[Blizzard]

never thought about that. you're right articblast.

lavos spawn, i guess since it's a 'half competitive half joke' team, he chose to try dual screens rotom-wash. on a serious team, you're obviously better off using the DS users you mentioned.

 

[Seth Vilo]

Not sure why you weakened Volcarona's overall bulk, seeing as how with the spread that I posted, 252Atk Neutral Scarf Terrakion only does 61% - 72% to Charti Volcarona, so as long as Volc didn't take SR damage, it can bypass Terrakion. Although, I agree with shifting 4 speed EV's to beat Jolteon and co.

Unfortunately I didn't think of Charti when Scarf Terrakion was at its prime, as now Keldeo's usurpation makes this Volcarona set unreliable. But otherwise, it gets past pretty much every scarfer, even Mence.

...No it doesn't take 61 - 72%... It takes 91.1 - 108.35%, being OHKO'd 50% of the time. I weakened the overall bulk to increase the physical defense and let it take that SE a bit better. The only way ChartiVolc could take neutral Scarf Terrak's SE is to forget the Speed benchmark and go 208 HP / 252 Def Bold. That's the lowest investment to make sure it survives Jolly ScarfTerrak's SE (84.29 - 99.72%), and leaves you with a spare 48 EV's to spare. Throwing that extra 48 into Speed leaves you at 248 Spe. For reference, at +1 that allows for a Speed-tie with Alakazam and friends at base 120. So that's a possibility.

EDIT: Shoot. Just realized that the lowest Speed this can go to should be 260. If you're taking the SE or HPump from Scarf Terrak/Keld, and boosting once more to outspeed them and KO with Giga Drain, you need 260 to outrun those base-108 Scarfers at +2... To hit 260 SPeed, you need either 96 Spe neutral, or 4 Spe Timid.

Back to tinkering...

EDIT2: I got 160 HP / 252 Def / 96 Spe Bold. You outrun ScarfTerrak at +2, take the SE decently (87.17 - 103.13% -- 18.75% chance to OHKO), and do 94.44 - 111.11% with a +2 Giga Drain (which always OHKO's after SR). You also OHKO Scarf Keldeo after SR with that, and do 66.5 - 78.41% to standard Jellicent, 49.5 - 58.41% to Special Wall Jellicent, 32.69 - 38.73% to standard Tenta, and 93.41 - 110.34% to Scarf Landorus with Fiery Dance. Not bad.

 

[Meru]

...No it doesn't take 61 - 72%... It takes 91.1 - 108.35%, being OHKO'd 50% of the time. I weakened the overall bulk to increase the physical defense and let it take that SE a bit better. The only way ChartiVolc could take neutral Scarf Terrak's SE is to forget the Speed benchmark and go 208 HP / 252 Def Bold. That's the lowest investment to make sure it survives Jolly ScarfTerrak's SE (84.29 - 99.72%), and leaves you with a spare 48 EV's to spare. Throwing that extra 48 into Speed leaves you at 248 Spe. For reference, at +1 that allows for a Speed-tie with Alakazam and friends at base 120. So that's a possibility.

EDIT: Shoot. Just realized that the lowest Speed this can go to should be 260. If you're taking the SE or HPump from Scarf Terrak/Keld, and boosting once more to outspeed them and KO with Giga Drain, you need 260 to outrun those base-108 Scarfers at +2... To hit 260 SPeed, you need either 96 Spe neutral, or 4 Spe Timid.

Back to tinkering...

EDIT2: I got 160 HP / 252 Def / 96 Spe Bold. You outrun ScarfTerrak at +2, take the SE decently (87.17 - 103.13% -- 18.75% chance to OHKO), and do 94.44 - 111.11% with a +2 Giga Drain (which always OHKO's after SR). You also OHKO Scarf Keldeo after SR with that, and do 66.5 - 78.41% to standard Jellicent, 49.5 - 58.41% to Special Wall Jellicent, 32.69 - 38.73% to standard Tenta, and 93.41 - 110.34% to Scarf Landorus with Fiery Dance. Not bad.

What the hell? You're right. I must've been high when I did that damage calc...

I guess Charti really only has its uses against Garchomp. Also, now that I really think about Passho, yeah it's great that it lets you bypass Keldeo, but you lose to Toxic Tentacruel, which I'm guessing is one of Keldeo's more common teammates. Bummer. They seemed like cool ideas at the time

 

[LudwiG]

What the hell? You're right. I must've been high when I did that damage calc...

I guess Charti really only has its uses against Garchomp. Also, now that I really think about Passho, yeah it's great that it lets you bypass Keldeo, but you lose to Toxic Tentacruel, which I'm guessing is one of Keldeo's more common teammates. Bummer. They seemed like cool ideas at the time

You can still use the focus sash set though. It should work similarly.

 

[Scorpiopt]

Physical Typhlosion is deadly as mentioned on the previous page... but since that behemoth has already been revealed I'll try and do something a little less try-hard.

Tyranitar@Babiri Berry/Air Balloon
Jolly
252Atk/4/SpD/252Spe
Dragon Dance
Stone Edge/Crunch
Fire Punch/Ice Punch
Earthquake

Seriously though is this thing really that bad that it doesn't deserve an analysis no-more?

why air balloon? most people wen see Tyranitar bring someone who can counter , most use fighting attacks instead of Earthquake

 

[DarkBlazeR]

Physical Typhlosion is deadly as mentioned on the previous page... but since that behemoth has already been revealed I'll try and do something a little less try-hard.

Tyranitar@Babiri Berry/Air Balloon
Jolly
252Atk/4/SpD/252Spe
Dragon Dance
Stone Edge/Crunch
Fire Punch/Ice Punch
Earthquake

Seriously though is this thing really that bad that it doesn't deserve an analysis no-more?

The problem with DDTar is that the current metagame is far too unkind to it for it to be effective. Setting up a DD in the first place is hard enough due to all the Fighting moves thrown around in OU, but even after it has managed to set up, pulling off a sweep is difficult because almost all the common Choice Scarf users will outspeed and pack a move to KO Tyranitar. Let's not forget how ubiquitous Breloom and Scizor are as well. You're much better off having the immediate power from CBTar or the speed from ScarfTar.

Also, Typhlosion is completely outclassed in OU by Victini, Darmanitan, Infernape and even Arcanine.

 

[Ice_Truck_Killa]

The problem with DDTar is that the current metagame is far too unkind to it for it to be effective. Setting up a DD in the first place is hard enough due to all the Fighting moves thrown around in OU, but even after it has managed to set up, pulling off a sweep is difficult because almost all the common Choice Scarf users will outspeed and pack a move to KO Tyranitar. Let's not forget how ubiquitous Breloom and Scizor are as well. You're much better off having the immediate power from CBTar or the speed from ScarfTar.

Also, Typhlosion is completely outclassed in OU by Victini, Darmanitan, Infernape and even Arcanine.

Umm... I was kidding about Typhlosion lol. And idk I feel like Tyranitar is used so often on teams as a sort of "check" to other weathers more than anything else that a wallbreaker/sweeping role could be an unexpected advantage for it... If you noticed the listed item was Babiri berry to protect against Scizors ruining sweeps but a chople berry is obviously a standard item for T-tar and can aid slightly in a scarfed fighting move ruining tar's fun... Also many of the checks to Tar barring Keldeo will seriously not enjoy coming in on one of Tar's moves especially at +1.

I'll agree that Band/ScarfTar/SpecialDTar all rightfully deserve to be used above DDtar but i don't think he's completely unviable in the metagame simply because of that massive attack and nice special bulk for a sweeper.

 

[pom]

I recently built a team with DDTar and found it to be highly underwhelming. Without max Speed it loses to many non-Scarfed Pokes, and uninvested TTar is not very bulky at all. A Choice item is the way to go in my opinion.

 

[John the Aussie]

Shuckle @ Leftovers
Trait: Contrary
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Nature: Impish
- Toxic
- Rest
- Mud Slap
- Shell Smash

This set is viable in almost all tiers and can take on just about any pokemon but has problems with toxic and steel pokemon. When Shuckle gets taunted he uses Mud Slap, Rest is used over protect as it heals against statuses and has a reliable healing method, shell smash being the contrary def and sdef raising and toxic of course to spread ailment for stalling. Funilly enough this sets weakness is crits being that they ignore stat boosters. this set is suggested for sandstorm teams as it gives it a 1.5* boost to its SpDef.

 

[Blizzard]

Shuckle @ Leftovers
Trait: Contrary
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Nature: Impish
- Toxic
- Rest
- Mud Slap
- Shell Smash

This set is viable in almost all tiers and can take on just about any pokemon but has problems with toxic and steel pokemon. When Shuckle gets taunted he uses Mud Slap, Rest is used over protect as it heals against statuses and has a reliable healing method, shell smash being the contrary def and sdef raising and toxic of course to spread ailment for stalling. Funilly enough this sets weakness is crits being that they ignore stat boosters. this set is suggested for sandstorm teams as it gives it a 1.5* boost to its SpDef.

I think that Wrap is a good option over mud-slap, as it can trap some weak pokemon and finish them off with toxic. Even if you keep using Mud-Slap, the opponent is going to switch anyways, so it's rather pointless. Wrap prevents all of that. I've used this set once, long time ago, that is, and i dont think it is as effective as it was before, but it's worth a try anyways, not on offensive teams, of course. With the sort of setup fodder it is, Shuckle should find a place on gimmick teams or something..

 

[Arcticblast]

At +1, there are still things that can punch through Shuckle as soon as it uses Rest, at which point they have two turns to kill you (assuming they switch in after you use Rest).
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 126-150 (51.63 - 61.47%) -- 94.92% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Shuckle in rain: 242-288 (99.18 - 118.03%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Shuckle in sand: 126-150 (51.63 - 61.47%) -- 94.92% chance to 2HKO

Shuckle's big flaws are the weakness to Stealth Rock, the lack of resistances, a bunch of common weaknesses, zero offensive presence, and the fact that it's utter Taunt bait.

 

[LudwiG]

I think that Wrap is a good option over mud-slap, as it can trap some weak pokemon and finish them off with toxic. Even if you keep using Mud-Slap, the opponent is going to switch anyways, so it's rather pointless. Wrap prevents all of that. I've used this set once, long time ago, that is, and i dont think it is as effective as it was before, but it's worth a try anyways, not on offensive teams, of course. With the sort of setup fodder it is, Shuckle should find a place on gimmick teams or something..

It's a set that I've been thinking to try for a long time, but never got around to breeding it. That is, with bind over mud slap, of course. I agree with that this person wrote about why to not use mud slap on this specific set (it is by no means a bad move though).

Shuckle should not be used in OU, but I can see that set working in lower tiers. In addition to being taunt and set up bait, it's also crit bait. With no offensive pressure, the opponent can just keep attacking. After 11 hits, the chance of having been hit by one crit is over 50%, assuming regular crit ratio.

While on the subject of setting up defensively without notable offensive pressure, shell armor torkoal does a similar job with iron defense, amnesia, rest and lava plume (curse works too, but it doesn't have a good physical STAB). That torkoal arguably does the same thing but better in the lower tiers, thanks to its ability.

 

[Seth Vilo]

Wouldn't it also be a good idea attempt to fit Power Split on that set? With Shuckle even further lowering its defenses offenses with Shell Smash, slapping something with Power Split may prevent a 2HKO and let you Rest off received damage. Utter Taunt Bait, but Power Split / Rest / Shell Smash / Toxic or Wrap or Knock Off may work.

EDIT: At below, I'm an idiot. I meant lowering offenses. It was right in my head but I needed more coffee.... XD

 

[Halcyon.]

I've been having quite a bit of fun with this set

Breloom (M) @ Life Orb / Fist Plate
Trait: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Focus Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Spore

You know what's really funny? Sporing something, having the opponent switch in their Lati@s to take the Mach Punch/Bullet Seed/scare it away after it sets up Swords Dance, and finally watching them cry when they get raped by the 150 base power STAB Focus Punch coming off of 394 Attack. Focus Punch does 252+ Atk Life Orb Breloom Focus Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 211-248 (69.86 - 82.11%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, which, when followed by a Mach Punch after Stealth Rock, is essentially a OHKO, and even without Stealth Rock, at worst, Latios is looking to be at 4%. LO Latias takes (63.24 - 74.5%) from Focus Punch, and (25.49 - 29.8%) from Mach Punch, which is also a guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock, and without Stealth Rock, leaves her at about 11%. Even Specially Defensive Celebi (considered one of the best counters to Breloom) takes (43.31 - 51.23%) from Focus Punch, which is nothing to scoff at. You lose the ability to set up and sweep teams, but you absolutely destroy walls, and can still clean up late-game with Mach Punch. But with Spore and the presumed switch in on Focus Punch, you're looking at two Pokémon eliminated by Breloom at least. I've been having a ton of fun with this set, and I highly recommend it.

 

[Ryuuki]

Wouldn't it also be a good idea attempt to fit Power Split on that set? With Shuckle even further lowering its defenses with Shell Smash, slapping something with Power Split may prevent a 2HKO and let you Rest off received damage. Utter Taunt Bait, but Power Split / Rest / Shell Smash / Toxic or Wrap or Knock Off may work.

Well he's using contrary so reverse all stat changes =)

But Power split is actually a good idée since you have 25 atk and sp.atk and with Power Split you can almost halv a sweepers offenciv stats and force it out making it take more hazard damage. In the last slot I would go for toxic or knock off and hope that they don't have something with taunt.

 

[Blizzard]

Wouldn't it also be a good idea attempt to fit Power Split on that set? With Shuckle even further lowering its defenses with Shell Smash, slapping something with Power Split may prevent a 2HKO and let you Rest off received damage. Utter Taunt Bait, but Power Split / Rest / Shell Smash / Toxic or Wrap or Knock Off may work.

I have a strong feeling i have misunderstood the bolded part or maybe you have just typed something else. Contrary shuckle's shell smash acts like a cosmic power, with the addition of reducing speed. And attack stats. I guess you already know that though. Power trick seems like a good idea at first when you see the opponent getting your greatly reduced attack stat, but with it you also give that boosted defense. After that shuckle might switch out to set up sweeper. But i guess that boosted defense the opponent receives isn't significant? Well since the opponent doesn't want to be set up on, it will mostly switch out. Anyways, shuckle just isn't meant for OU.

 

[Schpoonman]

I've been having quite a bit of fun with this set

Breloom (M) @ Life Orb / Fist Plate
Trait: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Focus Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Spore

You know what's really funny? Sporing something, having the opponent switch in their Lati@s to take the Mach Punch/Bullet Seed/scare it away after it sets up Swords Dance, and finally watching them cry when they get raped by the 150 base power STAB Focus Punch coming off of 394 Attack. Focus Punch does 252+ Atk Life Orb Breloom Focus Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 211-248 (69.86 - 82.11%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, which, when followed by a Mach Punch after Stealth Rock, is essentially a OHKO, and even without Stealth Rock, at worst, Latios is looking to be at 4%. LO Latias takes (63.24 - 74.5%) from Focus Punch, and (25.49 - 29.8%) from Mach Punch, which is also a guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock, and without Stealth Rock, leaves her at about 11%. Even Specially Defensive Celebi (considered one of the best counters to Breloom) takes (43.31 - 51.23%) from Focus Punch, which is nothing to scoff at. You lose the ability to set up and sweep teams, but you absolutely destroy walls, and can still clean up late-game with Mach Punch. But with Spore and the presumed switch in on Focus Punch, you're looking at two Pokémon eliminated by Breloom at least. I've been having a ton of fun with this set, and I highly recommend it.

You ain't no E-Lo!

But seriously, unprotected Focus Punch? That sounds like a dangerous game you're playing. I assume you either make boss predictions on switches before Spore or you just never Punch until after you've Spored something?

 

[Halcyon.]

You ain't no E-Lo!

But seriously, unprotected Focus Punch? That sounds like a dangerous game you're playing. I assume you either make boss predictions on switches before Spore or you just never Punch until after you've Spored something?

Yeah you never Focus Punch until just after you Spore something, because once you spore something, one of two things happens:

1. They switch out to something they think can take a Mach Punch/Bullet Seed like Flying types or Lati@s, which then take huge amounts of damage from the absurdity that is Focus Punch from Adamant Breloom.

2. They keep whatever the sleeping thing is in (like Celebi) thinking it can take whatever you can dish out, and also take huge amounts of damage.

I would never advocate using Focus Punch unless you're out on a sleeping opponent, or you REALLY think they'll switch/not attack ie if it's you against a Blissey or something. It's sort of similar to the Low Sweep set in that it is meant to help you wreck whatever the opponent sends in after you Spore something.

 

[Cygnis]

I've been having quite a bit of fun with this set

Breloom (M) @ Life Orb / Fist Plate
Trait: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Focus Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Spore

You know what's really funny? Sporing something, having the opponent switch in their Lati@s to take the Mach Punch/Bullet Seed/scare it away after it sets up Swords Dance, and finally watching them cry when they get raped by the 150 base power STAB Focus Punch coming off of 394 Attack. Focus Punch does 252+ Atk Life Orb Breloom Focus Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 211-248 (69.86 - 82.11%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, which, when followed by a Mach Punch after Stealth Rock, is essentially a OHKO, and even without Stealth Rock, at worst, Latios is looking to be at 4%. LO Latias takes (63.24 - 74.5%) from Focus Punch, and (25.49 - 29.8%) from Mach Punch, which is also a guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock, and without Stealth Rock, leaves her at about 11%. Even Specially Defensive Celebi (considered one of the best counters to Breloom) takes (43.31 - 51.23%) from Focus Punch, which is nothing to scoff at. You lose the ability to set up and sweep teams, but you absolutely destroy walls, and can still clean up late-game with Mach Punch. But with Spore and the presumed switch in on Focus Punch, you're looking at two Pokémon eliminated by Breloom at least. I've been having a ton of fun with this set, and I highly recommend it.

Tested the set and works well. By Sporing something you get a free Focus Punch followed by a swift Mach Punch or Bullet Seed on slower targets, you can cause many kills. If they stay in, you get the kill and another spore essentially making you a free pseudo-SubPunch. There are super mad predictions here and is a nice set. However, I like it more with Poison Heal because Mach Punch isn't that nice as another Focus Punch because of the sub.

 

[John the Aussie]

i run this set on my rain stall team for a support for politoed
Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Hp
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Memento
- Stealth Rock

just on some side notes this set runs protect so as that it can assist in trapping perished pokemon, memento was chosen over reversal so as that when focus sash have been activated and and they decide to switch into say gyrados who resists both of dugtrios attacks and then ddances instead now dugtrio can cripple the enemy force a switch and allow the setup from one of his comrades