FWIW, I've encountered Vaporeon far more often than the other two combined.I was just looking at the list of fully evolved Pokemon, and is there a reason Jolteon, Vaporeon, and Slaking aren't OU anymore? Jolteon in particular is actually overused in the sense of usage. Vaporeon does its job as well as it did before. Slaking I guess is kind of set up bait.
they can't switch in safelyOn top of this their is still that fighting weakness which standards such as lucario and heracross take advantage of.
Need I mention the Steel/Psychic types (or heck, almost any Steel type)? They wall Cresselia very effectively, and Metagross threatens it.The only things that'll really make Cressy run away are T-tar and Heracross. If T-Tar goes to Ubers, then Cressy's just seems to powerful to stay in OU.
That could eventually change, Nasty Plot/BP Mew is just crippling even in the uber metagame. Partnered with Kyogre you can run the figures and even top level ubers would cream their pants over how fast they get run over.I mentioned Mew not because it's similiar to Manaphy, but because it's simply not used at all in the Uber metagame.
If you ran the figures than you'd know the point is that if it Tail Glows on that switch Manaphy already has enough special attack to OHKO just about anything while OHKO'ing it back is near impossible.Which would bring me back to the question of "how do you get it in with no recovery move and or damage"? You'll take some damage however small or large on the switch. While you tail glow the opponent get's to switch. Everyone and their mom has a choice scarf pokemon these days. It outspeeds Manaphy for the kill.
But see, that's the thing...Metagross doesn't really threaten it without an attack boost, seeing as how it's only physical Dark move is 40 base damage, which Cressy will just shrug off. Getting into wall battles isn't really relevant here, since walls generally won't do a ton of damage to each other anyway.Need I mention the Steel/Psychic types (or heck, almost any Steel type)? They wall Cresselia very effectively, and Metagross threatens it.
EDIT: I know Cresselia's a defensive Pokemon, but it had to be mentioned (especially from my experiences with it; I use Cresselia frequently). :)
I agree with this(the vaporeon statement) I see ALOT of him ruinning around. ALmost no more jolteon/espeon/umbreonFWIW, I've encountered Vaporeon far more often than the other two combined.
Just like the Gallade/Breloom discussion, it's a matter of what each person has faced.
CB Meteor Mash coming from Metagross 2HKO's Cresselia, iirc. And the worst Cresselia can do is Thunder Wave Metagross, which won't really hurt it much.But see, that's the thing...Metagross doesn't really threaten it without an attack boost, seeing as how it's only physical Dark move is 40 base damage, which Cressy will just shrug off. Getting into wall battles isn't really relevant here, since walls generally won't do a ton of damage to each other anyway.
Just checked on Marriland...3HKO on Bold max/max, especially if you have Leftovers. So Cressy can just Calm Mind on the switch and sneak in a few more, then attack Meta's weaker Sp. Def with Ice Beam/Grass Knot for the eventual kill.CB Meteor Mash coming from Metagross 2HKO's Cresselia, iirc. And the worst Cresselia can do is Thunder Wave Metagross, which won't really hurt it much.
2 or 3 Ice Beam/Grass Knot won't be killing standard CBGross, even after a few Calm Minds. Cresselia would be foolish to stay in after Thunder Wave/Reflecting.Just checked on Marriland...3HKO on Bold max/max, especially if you have Leftovers. So Cressy can just Calm Mind on the switch and sneak in a few more, then attack Meta's weaker Sp. Def with Ice Beam/Grass Knot for the eventual kill.
I'm thinking the problem with SpecsMence is more the fact that Draco Meteor is the most broken move ever. 140 BP with only 1 resist and no immunities. And that was without STAB. Yesterday on Shoddy Battle, someone mentioned making Latias Standard (I don't agree). My counter arguement was it has the same Special attack as SpecsMence and way better defences. Honestly, the Dragon-type needs more resists.....The only thing that's been suggested for an uber ban that really seems to make any kind of sense to me is Salamence, and I find that pretty questionable anyway. It does seem that Blissey is the only real counter it has with choice specs, but if anything that just means you'd ban specsmence to ubers, not Sala itself. Anyway choice items, as we all know, are prediction-reliant and therefore can be countered just by making the right decision. I'm not really going to presume to know where it belongs, it just seems more reasonable of a suggestion than most of what I've seen in this thread.
As for TTar, I'm curious, what is it that was going to be able to counter him without the sdef boost and can't now? I honestly don't see how it makes that much difference.
So you know, Metagross resists both attacks, so even with 6 CMs, it's only like a SE move. Don't forget that Meteor Mash has more PP than Moonlight and has a 10% chance of raising Metagross's attack.Just checked on Marriland...3HKO on Bold max/max, especially if you have Leftovers. So Cressy can just Calm Mind on the switch and sneak in a few more, then attack Meta's weaker Sp. Def with Ice Beam/Grass Knot for the eventual kill.
Are you implying Lunar Dance revives fainted Pokemon? I thought it was merely HP/status...Manaphy is too good for OU.
A Random RainDance in your Team is enough to set up a Manaphy-Sweep.
Now imagine you build a Team around Manaphy?
A Rain Dance Team with Manaphy is just incredible...
Manaphy is Central of Strategy and if it faints -> Sacrifice Cress can bring back Manaphy for a 2nd Round ôO