DPP Magnezone (Sub Charge Beam)

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/magnezone

I've been using this set a for a while and it works particularly well in the current metagame. The first set, the steel killer, is engineered primarily to beat Bronzong and Metagross. However, Bronzong is dropping in usage and Metagross are usually blowing themselves up as leads before your sweepers need to set-up anyway. Choice Scarf Heatran, Choice Band Scizor, and Choice Scarf Jirachi are all the rage and this set exploits them to the fullest, while still functioning as a steel-killer.

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[SET]
name: Charge 'em Up Steel Killer!
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Charge Beam
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Flash Cannon
item: Leftovers
ability: Magnet Pull
nature: Modest
evs: 224 HP / 24 Def / 32 SpA / 144 SpD / 84 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is specifically designed to punish opposing teams for using Choiced Steel types. Choice Band Scizor, Choice Scarf Jirachi, and Choice Scarf Heatran are normally the glue that holds many teams together because of their ability to check multiple threats. With this set, you will be able to eliminate them while simultaneously setting yourself up to deal with the next pokemon which can turn the tide in a battle. The EVs given are tailored for the use of Substitute. With the given EV spread, Magnezone will achieve perfect leftovers recovery on 84 HP Substitutes that are impervious to common attacks of these three pokemon. Choice Band Scizor depends heavily on Bullet Punch to check a multitude of threats. With careful prediction, you can get Magnezone in on a Bullet Punch and proceed to set up your Substitute. From that point, it will take three Bullet Punches to break a Substitute, which will allow you to recover substantial health with Leftovers and begin charging your special attack with Charge Beam. Due to low base power, it will normally take three to four Charge Beams to eliminate the opposing steel Pokemon. With each attack, you have a 70% chance to raise your Special Attack. Before eliminating the helpless Pokemon, remember to keep your Substitute intact so that you get a "free" shot at the opponents next Pokemon. You should come out of the exchange with a Substitute, boosted Special Attack, and an eliminated steel Pokemon.</p>

<p> After eliminating the aforementioned Steel, Thunderbolt is your main attack and will hit like a freight train coming from Magnezone's boosted base 130 Attack. Hidden Power Ice compliments your electric attacks nicely by achieving near perfect coverage. However, Flash Cannon is a valuable secondary attack thanks to STAB, and is only slightly less powerful than a supper effective Hidden Power. It is important to note that Flash Cannon will always OHKO Mamoswine, and if you come out of the exchange at +2, it will have roughly a 50% chance to OHKO a Max HP Tyranitar after Stealth Rock. Since many Tyranitar hover around the same speed, you can easily re-allocate the 24 Def EVs to Speed to knock out Tar and keep the Substitute in-tact.</p>

<p> The magic of this set is all in the EV spread. The 24 Def EVs ensures that Scizor's Bullet Punch is always a 3HKO and Jirachi's Iron Head a 4HKO. Ideally, you will not want to be facing Scizor when it used Pursuit, as that means your probably lost a Pokemon! However, Scizor's Pursuit is still a 2HKO on the Substitute which allows you to Substitute and Charge repeatedly. The heavy investment in Special Defense may seem excessive, but allows you to carry out the same procedure against a Choice Scarf Heatran locked into Dragon Pulse, as it will never OHKO your Substitutes. The Speed is necessary to outspeed Skarmory and kill it before it has a chance to do anything. Do not try to set up on Skarmory, as Charge Beam will fail to OHKO the Steel bird and Magnezone will be met with a swift Whirlwind or an extra layer of Spikes. The remaining EVs were placed into Special Attack to pack a bit more punch.</p>

<p>This set functions more as a supporter or wall-breaker for your team because of the targets it can eliminate. Therefore, it is best paired with teammates that can appreciate the support it provides. Latias is a prime candidate, as she resists Magnezone's weaknesses and lures Scizor like a honey attracts Bees. Gengar works much the same way and is more likely to attract a Bullet Punch rather than a U-turn. In general, fast, frail sweepers attract Scizor or are revenge killed by Heatran and Jirachi which will allow Magnezone the opportunity to set up. Defensively, Salamence makes an excellent partner thanks to perfect type synergy and Intimidate. A Dragon Dance Salamence will enjoy Magnezone's ability to rid the field of these particular steels as all three are common revenge killers.</p>

<p>Much like the traditional Steel-killer set, pairing this Magnezone with a user of Trick will make the target Steel Pokemon easier to set up on.</p>
 

Darkmalice

Level 3
is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Hey RaikouLover, nice to see your back on smogon!

The format for the titles of analyses are changed; this will show you the small changes, as your title isn't the proper title: http://www.smogon.com/forums/announcement.php?f=103&a=98

Anyways, I question the viability of the test. From the first line of your analysis, "This set is specifically designed to punish opposing teams for using Choiced Steel types." The standard Magnezone set already does this, but with Magnet Rise, it beats addition Steel types like Bronzong and Forretress. This set is largely dependent upon trapping an enemy Steel-type into an attack that Magnezone shrugs off. But most Scizor and Choice Scarf Jirachi start the match with U-turn to scout and avoid being trapped by Magnezone. Even when Magnezone does nab a kill, it's very low speed means it's easily revenge killed, and Magnezone will often be forced out of play. making the use of Charge Beam redundant.
 
Its essentially a two for one tradeoff. The faster pokemon coming in to revenge kill mag breaks the Substitute, and has to eat a +2 attack, which no pokemon outside of Blissey and Swampert will like taking from this particular build. It's not a theory because I've used it many times in practice. Most Forretress don't pack Earthquake anymore, and its not like this set can't trap other steels like it normally does (as I said Zong usage is down and Meta's are mostly leads now...)

EDIT: I can't Edit the titl.. I'm sure a mod will do it. Should be "Magnezone [4P]"
 
Magnezone already has a Charge Beam set in its analysis, it just has a different EV spread and a Timid nature over Modest. Wouldn't it be better to just have a mention of this sets EV spread in the set comments of the current set?
 
It is a possibility. But does Timid nature actually do anything helpful for Magnezone? Its speed is pretty low so I'm fairly sure that Modest would be much more helpful.
 

Darkmalice

Level 3
is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
It is a possibility. But does Timid nature actually do anything helpful for Magnezone? Its speed is pretty low so I'm fairly sure that Modest would be much more helpful.
A Timid nature plus a Salac Berry enables it to outrun Mixape and +Speed base Pokemon. This enables it to make greater use of the Charge Beam boosts and gives it a greater chance of sweeping.

I prefer the old analysis for this reason. Leftovers isn't needed; you'll still be taking most attacks that Magnezone would want to take like a champ. If Maggy somehow gets +6, the opposing Pokemon can sacrifice a Pokemon to break a Sub, and then send in another to finish off Maggy. This is less likely with this spread, as with more Speed, Maggy is harder to revenge kill.
 
I believe the correct term is "break your Substitutes" over "OHKO"ing them.

And I agree with Darmaclice that my biggest problem with this set when I used it was one Pokemon sacrifing itself to break the sub then getting KOed by the next.

edit: yeah, I guess you're right
 
You switch out... if you've trapped a steel, killed it, and OHKOed the next pokemon as it breaks your substitute you've taken out two pokemon for the cost of nothing.. the point of the set is NOT to sweep a team 5-0!
 
[SET]
name: Charge 'em Up Steel Killer!
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Charge Beam
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Flash Cannon
item: Leftovers
ability: Magnet Pull
nature: Modest
evs: 224 HP / 24 Def / 32 SpA / 144 SpD / 84 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is specifically designed to punish opposing teams for using Choiced Steel-types, such as Choice Band Scizor, Choice Scarf Jirachi, and Choice Scarf Heatran. They are normally the glue that holds many teams together because of their ability to check multiple threats. With this set, you will be able to eliminate them while simultaneously setting yourself up to deal with the next Pokemon your opponent switches in. The EVs given are tailored for the use of Substitute. Magnezone will achieve perfect Leftovers recovery on 84 HP Substitutes that are impervious to common attacks of the aforementioned Steel-types. Choice Band Scizor depends heavily on Bullet Punch to check a multitude of threats. With careful prediction, you can get Magnezone in on a Bullet Punch and proceed to set up your Substitute. From that point, it will take three Bullet Punches to break Magnezone's Substitute, which will allow you to recover substantial health with Leftovers and begin charging your Special Attack with Charge Beam. Due to its low Base Power, it will normally take three to four Charge Beams to eliminate the opposing Steel Pokemon. With each attack, you have a 70% chance to raise your Special Attack. Before eliminating the helpless Pokemon, remember to keep your Substitute intact so that you can get a "free" shot at the opponent's next Pokemon. As for the end result, You should come out with a Substitute, boosted Special Attack, and an eliminated Steel-type Pokemon.</p>

<p>After eliminating the Steel-type Pokemon, Thunderbolt is your main attack and will hit like a freight train coming from Magnezone's boosted base 130 Special Attack. Hidden Power Ice compliments your Electric attacks nicely by achieving near perfect coverage. However, Flash Cannon is a valuable secondary attack, thanks to STAB, and is only slightly less powerful than a super effective Hidden Power. It is important to note that Flash Cannon will always OHKO Mamoswine, and if you happen to achieve a +2 in Special Attack, it will have roughly a 50% chance to OHKO a Max HP Tyranitar after Stealth Rock. Since many Tyranitar hover around the same Speed as Magnezone, you can easily relocate the 24 Defense EVs to Speed to knock out Tyranitar and keep the Substitute intact.</p>

<p>The magic of this set is all in the EV spread. The 24 Defense EVs ensures that Scizor's Bullet Punch is always a 3HKO and Jirachi's Iron Head a 4HKO against Magnezone's Substitute. Ideally, you will not want to be facing Scizor when it used Pursuit, as that means your probably lost a Pokemon! If Scizor happens to use Pursuit instead of Bullet Punch, it is still a 2HKO on Magnezone's Substitute, which still allows you to Substitute and Charge Beam repeatedly. The heavy investment in Special Defense may seem excessive, but it allows you to carry out the same procedure against a Choice Scarf Heatran locked into Dragon Pulse, as it will never OHKO your Substitutes. The Speed is necessary to outspeed Skarmory and kill it before it has a chance to do anything. Do not try to set up on Skarmory, as Charge Beam will fail to OHKO the Steel bird and Magnezone will be met with a swift Whirlwind or an extra layer of Spikes. The remaining EVs are placed into Special Attack to pack a bit more punch.</p>

<p>This set functions more as a supporter or wall-breaker for your team because of the targets it can eliminate. Therefore, it is best paired with teammates that can appreciate the support it provides. Latias is a prime candidate, as she resists Magnezone's weaknesses and lures Scizor like how honey attracts bees. Gengar works much the same way and is more likely to attract a Bullet Punch rather than a U-turn. However, Latias and Gengar both attract Pursuit, which can easily demolish them. In general, fast, frail sweepers that attract Scizor or are revenge killed by Heatran and Jirachi are good teammates, as they will allow Magnezone to set up. Defensively, Salamence makes an excellent partner, thanks to their perfect type synergy and Intimidate. Dragon Dance Salamence will enjoy Magnezone's ability to rid the field of these particular Steels as all three are common revenge killers.</p>

<p>Much like the traditional Steel-killer set, pairing this Magnezone with a user of Trick will make the target Steel Pokemon easier to set up on.</p>
Just a few fixes here and there. Remove stuff that look like this.
 

jc104

Humblest person ever
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
I think it would perheps be better is some of this were simply added to the set comments of the old analysis. There is already a similar set to yours mentioned there, but it uses a different EV spread. Are you absolutely certain that you need so many points in special defense for your sub to survive Dragon Pulse from Scarf Heatran? Having used a similar set I am sure I remember them surviving. Having just run a calc (although there are no real reliable calculators,) I believe it does not require any investment whatsoever. The only uses I have found are when trapping things like tricked Empoleon or SubCM jirachi (which I should add are very rare,) or maybe specs lucario (all of course locked into resisted moves.) Even modest Specstran will not break your sub (Edit : wrong, it will sometimes break it, bad calc, +speed Specstran wont though). Nonetheless I suggest that you put (at least some of) these EVs into HP and defense. It can be curiously advantageous to have low special attack, becasue you can charge beam more times on your trapped steel type. I suggest you run some calcs in this area then alter your spread
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
<p> The magic of this set is all in the EV spread. The 24 Def EVs ensures that Scizor's Bullet Punch is always a 3HKO and Jirachi's Iron Head a 4HKO.
Can you mention this is with Substitute in play? I almost thought Scizor 3HKOed Maggy for a minute there, heh.

P.S. could you please change the name? Sorry but I'm not liking the "Charge 'Em Up Steel Killer". =/
 
[SET]
name: Charge 'em Up Steel Killer!
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Charge Beam
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Flash Cannon
item: Leftovers
ability: Magnet Pull
nature: Modest
evs: 224 HP / 24 Def / 32 SpA / 144 SpD / 84 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is specifically designed to punish opposing teams for using Choiced Steel-types. Choice Band Scizor, Choice Scarf Jirachi, and Choice Scarf Heatran are normally the glue that holds many teams together because of their ability to check multiple threats. With this set, you will be able to eliminate them while simultaneously setting yourself up to deal with the next pokemon which can turn the tide in a battle. The EVs given are tailored for the use of Substitute. With the given EV spread, Magnezone will achieve perfect leftovers recovery on 84 HP Substitutes that are impervious to common attacks of these three pokemon. Choice Band Scizor depends heavily on Bullet Punch to check a multitude of threats. With careful prediction, you can get Magnezone in on a Bullet Punch and proceed to set up your Substitute. From that point, it will take three Bullet Punches to break a Substitute, which will allow you to recover substantial health with Leftovers and begin charging your special attack with Charge Beam. Due to low base power, it will normally take three to four Charge Beams to eliminate the opposing steel Pokemon. With each attack, you have a 70% chance to raise your Special Attack. Before eliminating the helpless Pokemon, remember to keep your Substitute intact so that you get a "free" shot at the opponents next Pokemon. You should come out of the exchange with a Substitute, boosted Special Attack, and an eliminated steel Pokemon.</p>

<p> After eliminating the aforementioned Steel-type, Thunderbolt is your main attack and will hit like a freight train coming from Magnezone's boosted base 130 Attack. Hidden Power Ice compliments your electric attacks nicely by achieving near perfect coverage. However, Flash Cannon is a valuable secondary attack thanks to STAB, and is only slightly less powerful than a super effective Hidden Power. It is important to note that Flash Cannon will always OHKO Mamoswine, and if you come out of the exchange at +2, it will have roughly a 50% chance to OHKO a Max HP Tyranitar after Stealth Rock. Since many Tyranitar hover around the same speed, you can easily re-allocate the 24 Def EVs to Speed to knock out Tyranitar and keep the Substitute intact.</p>

<p> The magic of this set is all in the EV spread. The 24 Def EVs ensures that Scizor's Bullet Punch is always a 3HKO and Jirachi's Iron Head a 4HKO (I'm pretty darn sure you mean on a Substitute here, because there's no way they're doing what you're saying. You need to say thats what it takes to break Magnezone's Substitute.). Ideally, you will not want to be facing Scizor when it used Pursuit, as that means your probably lost a Pokemon! However, ) (You don't need this past section. All you need is what Pursuit does to Magnezone.)Scizor's Pursuit is still a 2HKO on the Substitute which allows you to Substitute and Charge Beam repeatedly. The heavy investment in Special Defense may seem excessive, but allows you to carry out the same procedure against a Choice Scarf Heatran locked into Dragon Pulse, as it will never OHKO your Substitutes. The Speed is necessary to outspeed Skarmory and kill it before it has a chance to do anything. Do not try to set up on Skarmory, as Charge Beam will fail to OHKO the Steel bird and Magnezone will be met with a swift Whirlwind or an extra layer of Spikes. The remaining EVs were placed into Special Attack to pack a bit more punch.</p>

<p>This set functions more as a supporter or wall-breaker for your team because of the targets it can eliminate. Therefore, it is best paired with teammates that can appreciate the support it provides. Latias is a prime candidate, as she resists Magnezone's weaknesses and lures Scizor like a honey attracts bees. Gengar works much the same way and is more likely to attract a Bullet Punch rather than a U-turn. In general, fast, frail sweepers attract Scizor or are revenge killed by Heatran and Jirachi which will allow Magnezone the opportunity to set up. Defensively, Salamence makes an excellent partner thanks to perfect type synergy and Intimidate. A Dragon Dance Salamence will enjoy Magnezone's ability to rid the field of these particular steels as all three are common revenge killers.</p>

<p>Much like the traditional Steel-killer set, pairing this Magnezone with a user of Trick will make the target Steel Pokemon easier to set up on.</p>
Black: General Edits
Blue: Omit
Red: Personal Comments
 
Actually, this edit can be scrapped. I just witnessed the original Charge Beam sweeper set on site played exactly the way this was, and the Salac Berry made the definite improvment and cleaned my clock. There is no need for this set, especially since there is a mention of a bulkier spread now in that set comments.
 
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