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Dragons of Generation 5
- Thread starter Aerrow
- Start date
IMO the Fire / Electric dragons are the best.
The dragon with 48 base speed is just sad. I feel for it ):
The Dragon + Ice Pokemon has nice stats, a lot like trying (and failing) to copy Rayquaza.
Fire + Dragon is only resisted by Heatran, and Electric + Dragon Shedinja, Steelix, and Magnezone. Both give great STAB coverage, but the 100- base speed is a bit disappointing, like Rayquaza and Kyogre.
Edit; I just realized that no dragon goes past 100 base speed and most of them come very close. Game Freak is trying to hold them back from overkill of offensive prowess.
The dragon with 48 base speed is just sad. I feel for it ):
The Dragon + Ice Pokemon has nice stats, a lot like trying (and failing) to copy Rayquaza.
Fire + Dragon is only resisted by Heatran, and Electric + Dragon Shedinja, Steelix, and Magnezone. Both give great STAB coverage, but the 100- base speed is a bit disappointing, like Rayquaza and Kyogre.
Edit; I just realized that no dragon goes past 100 base speed and most of them come very close. Game Freak is trying to hold them back from overkill of offensive prowess.
Ononokusu is powerful, but extremely fragile. IMHO, it's best use won't be with Dragon Dance or Swords Dance, it's too fragile to setup(It definately needs the speed boost). However, Rivalry + Choice Scarf seems absolutely deadly, especially bringing it in on a U-Turn from Scizor or something. That will be what to watch out for.
Sazanado is interesting. With Levitate and a cool typing, it's kind of like Flygon, but a lot bulkier and a lot stronger. I could see it as possibly some kinda mix-Wallbreaker, or otherwise a strong non-boosting attacker. The fact it's so bulky is nice, too.
Kurimugan, I feel, will be this gen's Flygon. Access to Encourage sets it apart from Ononokusu ability-wise, although it also has access to Mold Breaker to Earthquake Bronzong and the like, and it's also uniquely Dragon-only alongside, IIRC, only Ononokusu. Access to Superpower gives it another very powerful attack, and don't forget that 120 is still a very high base attack: Salamence and Metagross only had 15 more, for example. 77/90/90 defenses are comparable to Salamence's 95/80/80, but Kurimugan lacks a Stealth Rock weakness, or indeed any weakness aside from Ice and Dragon. It also boasts useful resistances to water, electricity, fire and grass. It's low speed is somewhat dissapointing, hence why it'll be more like a Flygon than a Dragonite/Salamence.
Sazanado is interesting. With Levitate and a cool typing, it's kind of like Flygon, but a lot bulkier and a lot stronger. I could see it as possibly some kinda mix-Wallbreaker, or otherwise a strong non-boosting attacker. The fact it's so bulky is nice, too.
Kurimugan, I feel, will be this gen's Flygon. Access to Encourage sets it apart from Ononokusu ability-wise, although it also has access to Mold Breaker to Earthquake Bronzong and the like, and it's also uniquely Dragon-only alongside, IIRC, only Ononokusu. Access to Superpower gives it another very powerful attack, and don't forget that 120 is still a very high base attack: Salamence and Metagross only had 15 more, for example. 77/90/90 defenses are comparable to Salamence's 95/80/80, but Kurimugan lacks a Stealth Rock weakness, or indeed any weakness aside from Ice and Dragon. It also boasts useful resistances to water, electricity, fire and grass. It's low speed is somewhat dissapointing, hence why it'll be more like a Flygon than a Dragonite/Salamence.
I believe I read somewhere on that TurboBlaze is similar to mold breaker, making no Pokemon resistant to Reshiram's stabs.
Goodness. Choice Scarf Encourage Outrage? Talk about cleaning up.
With 48 Base Speed?
I think Sazando might rise in prominence as a possible Shanderaa check. Resisting both STABs + access to STAB Dark-type moves, like Tyranitar, but also outspeeding Shanderaa will allow it to work effectively and might just be its niche in the Gen 5 metagame.
Oops.
Uh..
Well, that doesn't make him nearly as useful. But a near limitless Outrage is still pretty sexy.
I agree with you here, Cosmicexplorer. Espescially due to Sazando's humongous base 125 SpA stat that will allow it to wreak havaoc upon Shanderaa's average defenses and bulk.
TheValkyries
proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
I read these stats... and all I could think of was... Gamefreak obviously doesn't pay attention to Smogon. Most broken set of Dragons ever.
I think the major issue to discuss is whether the new dragons will be as good as Salamence, Garchomp, and friends, since we will be initially using all of them
Garchomp gets Rough Skin
Salamence gets EarthquakeSpiral/Overconfidence/Arrogance
These are the competition for a team slot in the new generation. How exactly do the new dragons compare to Salamence with +1 attack after each kill?
Garchomp gets Rough Skin
Salamence gets EarthquakeSpiral/Overconfidence/Arrogance
These are the competition for a team slot in the new generation. How exactly do the new dragons compare to Salamence with +1 attack after each kill?
Sazando is going to be one of the few pokemon that won't mind switching into the new 145 SpAtk Fire/Ghost. With resistances to both its STAB's and a fantastic way of killing it on the rebound. He's also going to be a great revenge killer against Ononokusu, who seems the perfect bait for it with a single point differentiating their base speed.
The fact that he can counter ghosts on both ends of the spectrum though, physical and special, is something to brag about. Hopefully he get's flamethrower to help tear steel types.
@Baldaphor: Are you serious? Serebii says untranslated but... that's just frightening. Doryuuzu and Kingdra will make good revenge killers/counters (Switch in Kingdra on a dragon dance, 100 speed and boosted attack is great but after a dragon dance Salamence will be near unstoppable)
The fact that he can counter ghosts on both ends of the spectrum though, physical and special, is something to brag about. Hopefully he get's flamethrower to help tear steel types.
@Baldaphor: Are you serious? Serebii says untranslated but... that's just frightening. Doryuuzu and Kingdra will make good revenge killers/counters (Switch in Kingdra on a dragon dance, 100 speed and boosted attack is great but after a dragon dance Salamence will be near unstoppable)
I disagree. They are really offensively potent, but speed makes all the difference, and Garchomp was more "Broken" then all of them. I like that they are making interesting type combination, but I am getting pretty tired of everything being dragon dragon dragon.
what's the meaning of checking a shadow tagger...?
Keep in mind Shanderaa will probably have at least one CM up (CM or Sub on the switch) when Sazando switches in, so it'll probably have to use its lower attack, so as to deal more damage. Now it probably won't matter if it gets at least Crunch (which almost all of them received as of Gen 4), which, with Shanderaa's bad defenses, will almost certainly OHKO, but Shanderaa could hurt it badly with boosted STAB Fire Blast if it doesn't KO. However, if it gets a special attack more powerful than Dark Pulse, then it could concievably use that to attack it. But it'll probably rely on Crunch, and if the Shanderaa is running a more defensive spread, it could survive it.
EDIT: I just checked it on the Damage Calc. A Crunch fully invested (252 Atk EVs) (without a boosting nature!) against a fully invested defense will always OHKO (102.6% - 121.7%), while Dark Pulse (fully invested on both sides, without boosting nature and after a CM by Shanderaa) will only deal 79.4% - 93.1%. However, against a noninvested Sp.Def (the most common, probably), it will do 160% - 188.8%. So Dark Pulse will always OHKO if uninvested, but with a full defensive spread, it'll do much less.
tl;dr Crunch and Dark Pulse will always OHKO even after a CM if Shanderaa does not invest in defense, and Dark Pulse will easily 2HKO after a CM even if it fully invests in Sp. Def and HP.
@green_flash: Many things will probably carry a Shed Shell just to be able to switch out of Shanderaa, and then Sazando can switch in and KO it.
EDIT: I just checked it on the Damage Calc. A Crunch fully invested (252 Atk EVs) (without a boosting nature!) against a fully invested defense will always OHKO (102.6% - 121.7%), while Dark Pulse (fully invested on both sides, without boosting nature and after a CM by Shanderaa) will only deal 79.4% - 93.1%. However, against a noninvested Sp.Def (the most common, probably), it will do 160% - 188.8%. So Dark Pulse will always OHKO if uninvested, but with a full defensive spread, it'll do much less.
tl;dr Crunch and Dark Pulse will always OHKO even after a CM if Shanderaa does not invest in defense, and Dark Pulse will easily 2HKO after a CM even if it fully invests in Sp. Def and HP.
@green_flash: Many things will probably carry a Shed Shell just to be able to switch out of Shanderaa, and then Sazando can switch in and KO it.
It doesn't NEED to get a Dragon Dance off. It's got the attack and speed to start sweeping immediately. Probably easy to revenge kill, but oh well, a good number of dragons are. And most people are only looking at its stats. Guess what guys? It has Mold Breaker too!
Also: Shanderaa seemed to me like it would be an effective Scarfed Revenge Killer. Especially since the metagame leans to the physical side more than the special side, so he'll be hitting a lot of Pokemon for their weaker stat. And if it has Trick, not even Blissey will be able to stop it right. Shadow Tag too, so you KNOW it's going to be doing some major damage as a revenger.
Ononokusu is being a bit overhyped imo. Because of it's super bad 60 base SpA, it cant really go mixed and has to stick to it's (awesome) Atk stat, so depending on its movepool it might be easier to wall than we would like. If it doesn't get a good Fire attack, steels wall it way too well, especially Skarmory. And with no immunities and subpar defenses, it's not switching in too much (at least it's not SR weak).
Sazando on the other hand looks like it'll live up to the hype, with that great typing and awesome SpA.
Sazando on the other hand looks like it'll live up to the hype, with that great typing and awesome SpA.
I'll go ahead to use this thread to expand on my thoughts of the dragons.
-Ononokusu: The set up seems clear to me that it should be a Choice Bander. Get in, rape something, get out. Because the fact is that with Dragon Dance, it is STILL outsped by everything this generation, most notably Scarf Flygon. If it opts to SD, Salamence, Sazando, Garchomp, and a host of other attackers have little difficulty shutting it down. Not to mention that its defenses are lacking quite a bit (I believe Swampert's uninvested EQ does 35%-40%).
-Sazando: Lati twins, step aside, THIS is the new Specs abuser. Despite its lower speed and special bulk, Sazando approaches Latios-level SpA and maintains bulk on both sides of the spectrum, not to mention a respectable attack stat. It's weaknesses are much more difficult to capitalize upon, though Blissey is probably more of a full stop thanks to the lack of trick.
-Latias/Latios: When everything is broken, nothing is. Hopefully people will realize that and finally accept these two into OU where they belong (without Soul Dew of course). Their high speed, access to Recover, and wide special movepool all lend themselves perfectly to CM movesets, especially with Sazando taking their Specs niche. Latios will probably want to do something along the lines of CM + 3 Attacks, while Latias can utilize her bulk to do a Sub/CM/Recover/Dragon Pulse bulky set.
-Garchomp: Garchomp will return triumphantly to OU, thrilled to wreak havoc with its draconic brethren. Unlike Ononokusu, who lacks any defensive merit, Chomp is actually quite bulky, and has a trolly base 102 speed (though that isn't so special anymore with the wacky speed tiers around). Swords Dance is the perfect way for it to capitalize on its great type coverage and bulk.
-Flygon: Flygon's niche will remain the same - a nice little scarfer. You would think that Garchomp would overtake it, but I think otherwise. For one, neutrality to all forms of passive damage is a boon to Flygon, and its base 100 speed allows it to deal with the majority of other dragons. We are all aware of U-turn's 4th gen utility right? Now that 156 new pokemon have been added into the mix, scouting will prove crucial to your success, especially with Shadow Tag Shandara/Gochiruzeru, the new offensive behemoths, and other threats flying around in this 5th gen free-for-all.
-Salamence: Salamence didn't like having to take its little trip to Ubers, where it was forced to live under the rule of big brother Rayquaza. He returns to OU to find, surprisingly, more dragons in his place, but he will still rule the Roost when it comes to mixed attacking. No other dragon wields the combination of power and speed that Salamence does, especially with his new ability, Arrogance. Sazando tries to compete but falls short - Garchomp lacks SpA power while the Lati twins can't really do anything too physical. Prepare to face the LO mixed sweeper sets once again folks. Oh, and get ready for something like Garchomp to clean up afterward.
-Dragonite: In the presence of all these dragons eagerly waiting to sweep, Dragonite instead focuses on its bulk to slowly make its presence known. With moves like Thunder Wave, Roost, Agility, and more, Dragonite is more than capable of setting itself up for a slow, devastating sweep. The dream world now grants it a new ability that makes it take less damage the closer it is to 100% health, which creates an additional niche for it. Kanto's original dragon is not to be left out.
-Kurimugan: The defensive dragon, since 77/90/90 mono dragon is awesome. The low speed and SpA don't lend themselves to sweeping, but it could probably be used to sponge particular attacks and retaliate with its 120 Atk. Dragon sports several elemental resistances, all of which are common attacking types.
-Altaria: Ruby and Sapphire's baby dragon is not forgotten. In fact, it will likely be best used filling a support niche on the team. Heal Bell allows it to be an effective cleric and to protect itself from status while boosting its stats with Dragon Dance. It's bulky defenses are always nice, and now that it has Cloud Nine it provides a solid answer to Sun/Sand based teams.
-Kingdra: Johto's dragon seems to fall into obscurity with all these other dragons running around, but that is far from the case. Anyone who has used MixDra in the Rain knows exactly what a terror it can be, and with Drizzle Politoed coming to OU, Kingdra may have many more opportunities to shine. It has excellent all-around bulk, great type coverage, and can even set up Rain for itself if need be, meaning that, unlike other rain sweepers, it doesn't mind having Tyranitar/Abomasnow/Ninetales suddenly switch in. Underestimate it at your own risk.
-Ononokusu: The set up seems clear to me that it should be a Choice Bander. Get in, rape something, get out. Because the fact is that with Dragon Dance, it is STILL outsped by everything this generation, most notably Scarf Flygon. If it opts to SD, Salamence, Sazando, Garchomp, and a host of other attackers have little difficulty shutting it down. Not to mention that its defenses are lacking quite a bit (I believe Swampert's uninvested EQ does 35%-40%).
-Sazando: Lati twins, step aside, THIS is the new Specs abuser. Despite its lower speed and special bulk, Sazando approaches Latios-level SpA and maintains bulk on both sides of the spectrum, not to mention a respectable attack stat. It's weaknesses are much more difficult to capitalize upon, though Blissey is probably more of a full stop thanks to the lack of trick.
-Latias/Latios: When everything is broken, nothing is. Hopefully people will realize that and finally accept these two into OU where they belong (without Soul Dew of course). Their high speed, access to Recover, and wide special movepool all lend themselves perfectly to CM movesets, especially with Sazando taking their Specs niche. Latios will probably want to do something along the lines of CM + 3 Attacks, while Latias can utilize her bulk to do a Sub/CM/Recover/Dragon Pulse bulky set.
-Garchomp: Garchomp will return triumphantly to OU, thrilled to wreak havoc with its draconic brethren. Unlike Ononokusu, who lacks any defensive merit, Chomp is actually quite bulky, and has a trolly base 102 speed (though that isn't so special anymore with the wacky speed tiers around). Swords Dance is the perfect way for it to capitalize on its great type coverage and bulk.
-Flygon: Flygon's niche will remain the same - a nice little scarfer. You would think that Garchomp would overtake it, but I think otherwise. For one, neutrality to all forms of passive damage is a boon to Flygon, and its base 100 speed allows it to deal with the majority of other dragons. We are all aware of U-turn's 4th gen utility right? Now that 156 new pokemon have been added into the mix, scouting will prove crucial to your success, especially with Shadow Tag Shandara/Gochiruzeru, the new offensive behemoths, and other threats flying around in this 5th gen free-for-all.
-Salamence: Salamence didn't like having to take its little trip to Ubers, where it was forced to live under the rule of big brother Rayquaza. He returns to OU to find, surprisingly, more dragons in his place, but he will still rule the Roost when it comes to mixed attacking. No other dragon wields the combination of power and speed that Salamence does, especially with his new ability, Arrogance. Sazando tries to compete but falls short - Garchomp lacks SpA power while the Lati twins can't really do anything too physical. Prepare to face the LO mixed sweeper sets once again folks. Oh, and get ready for something like Garchomp to clean up afterward.
-Dragonite: In the presence of all these dragons eagerly waiting to sweep, Dragonite instead focuses on its bulk to slowly make its presence known. With moves like Thunder Wave, Roost, Agility, and more, Dragonite is more than capable of setting itself up for a slow, devastating sweep. The dream world now grants it a new ability that makes it take less damage the closer it is to 100% health, which creates an additional niche for it. Kanto's original dragon is not to be left out.
-Kurimugan: The defensive dragon, since 77/90/90 mono dragon is awesome. The low speed and SpA don't lend themselves to sweeping, but it could probably be used to sponge particular attacks and retaliate with its 120 Atk. Dragon sports several elemental resistances, all of which are common attacking types.
-Altaria: Ruby and Sapphire's baby dragon is not forgotten. In fact, it will likely be best used filling a support niche on the team. Heal Bell allows it to be an effective cleric and to protect itself from status while boosting its stats with Dragon Dance. It's bulky defenses are always nice, and now that it has Cloud Nine it provides a solid answer to Sun/Sand based teams.
-Kingdra: Johto's dragon seems to fall into obscurity with all these other dragons running around, but that is far from the case. Anyone who has used MixDra in the Rain knows exactly what a terror it can be, and with Drizzle Politoed coming to OU, Kingdra may have many more opportunities to shine. It has excellent all-around bulk, great type coverage, and can even set up Rain for itself if need be, meaning that, unlike other rain sweepers, it doesn't mind having Tyranitar/Abomasnow/Ninetales suddenly switch in. Underestimate it at your own risk.
On Serebii I remember reading that Ononokusu has a STAB that has a chance of forcing the target to switch, pair this guy with Forretress.
I just double checked Ononokusu's page on the B/W Pokedex on Serebii; I didn't see any move like the one you specified.
Yeah that's called Dragon Tail, I think it has 70 BP. But that's a great idea, and would allow it to escape from Shanderaa too, which has been theorymonned as defining this whole metagame. Spikes support would really help this pokemon, helping it to OHKO its supposed counters, while Dragon Tail doesn't do too bad itself, coming off of base 147 attack.
EDIT: I didn't know it had negative priority; it probably wouldn't work so well, as IcyMan28 said.
Oh, okay. I thought that the move he was talking about would be on Ononokusu's Pokedex Page lol.