DuskMod: A major modification to the standard metagame

I'd rather run Agility with Iron Fist, to be quite honest.

I agree. Having a powered up Meteor Mash and the option to use Life Orb is much more appealing to me.

I'd like to throw my 2 cents about Raikou.

Raikou is usable in 4 different states:

Rain Raikou is more than likely going to be Calm Mind, as Scarf and Specs are done better by Rotom-W, whom has STAB on both moves and Trick. It is important to note that Rainkou will more than likely use Thunder over Thunderbolt, so that is something to watch out for.

Hail Raikou is pretty threatening, as it gets BoltBeam in the Hail, while being able to hit BoltBeam resistors with Aura Sphere. Hail Raikou can go either way, but will more than likely be either Calm Mind or SubCM, as Rotom-F can potentially do Scarf/Specs better. Keep in mind though that Rotom-F is SR weak, so Hail Raikou could potentially be a better Scarfer/Specs users for your team.

Sun Raikou is something I haven't seen yet, but in theory could be threatening. Sunkou will more than likely run HP Ice over Aura Sphere to hit Dragon-types. I'd imagine Sunkou being in a similar position to Hailkou; more than likely a CMer, but potentially a Choice users. This is because of Rotom-H, whom could do the Scarf/Specs thing better.

Sand in general is a good counter to Raikou, as Sand gives Raikou Rock-type Weather Ball, which is pretty useless in terms of coverage. TTar must be wary of Aura Sphere though. Hippowdown, however, is a good answer to Raikou - as long as you're switching in to it. If Raikou goes against Hippo in Hail or Rain (especially rain and maybe sun), Hippo will loose unless it's SpDef

Code:

252+ SpA Raikou Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon in rain: 292-344 (69.52 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raikou: 300-354 (93.45 - 110.28%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO

Gastrodon is probably one of the best counters, it takes an unSTABed move while dealing damage with EQ (You don't want to use EP because if Raikou is boosted, Gastro can loose. I used Hailkou for this, but any Raikou with Aura Sphere has similar results)

Code:

252+ SpA Raikou Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Gastrodon in hail: 97-115 (22.76 - 26.99%) -- possible 4HKO after weather
0 Atk Gastrodon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raikou: 234-276 (72.89 - 85.98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after weather
0 SpA Gastrodon Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Raikou: 182-216 (56.69 - 67.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after weather
+1 252+ SpA Raikou Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Gastrodon in hail: 146-172 (34.27 - 40.37%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after weather
0 SpA Gastrodon Earth Power vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Raikou: 120-144 (37.38 - 44.85%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after weather
+2 252+ SpA Raikou Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Gastrodon in hail: 194-229 (45.53 - 53.75%) -- 41.02% chance to 2HKO after weather
+3 252+ SpA Raikou Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Gastrodon in hail: 242-285 (56.8 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after weather
0 SpA Gastrodon Earth Power vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Raikou: 92-110 (28.66 - 34.26%) -- 2.64% chance to 3HKO after weather
0 SpA Gastrodon Earth Power vs. +3 0 HP / 0 SpD Raikou: 74-90 (23.05 - 28.03%) -- possible 4HKO after weather

Rain Raikou is countered by bulky Grass-types, as Rainkous tend to carry Aura Sphere more they do Hidden Power Ice. Keep in mind that Ferrothorn isn't the best choice due to it being weak to Aura Sphere. Virizion and Celebi are probably the best Grass-type to counter Rainkou (Celebi resists all of Rainkou's moves, while Virizion has good SpDef and Regenerator)
Sun Raikou is countered by Dragon-types that aren't 4x weak to Ice. Your best bet to counter Sun Raikou is Lati@s, as it's great SpDef, speed, and power let it threaten Sunkou with either Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse, or a Psyshock if it has too many boosts.
Hailkou is probably the hardest to counter due to it's great coverage. Your best bet is probably Mamoswine, although it still takes SE from Aura Sphere, Aura Sphere is it' weakest coverage move. You're probably better of using standard counters to counter Hailkou though, such as Hippo or Gastro.

Well, quick power metagross is more of a pivot/lead than a sweeper. It's similar to how Lando-T is in ou, except faster, and able to use a (strong) explosion.

It is nice to see DM getting going again :D! That said, I do wish there was more Doubles being played, DM Doubles is a very unique and fun metagame in my opinion.

Quick Powder Metagross isn't really as preferable in most cases, though the fact it can catch people expecting a really slow Metagross by suprise means it is probably viable. The high coverage is nice too. That said, if u are going to run Light Metal Metagross, it should probably be as a Scarfer, since with a Choice Scarf, Adamant Nature and Light Metal, it reaches 430 speed, allowing it to outspeed a lot of threats and put that nice Attack stat to use Revenge Killing things like +1 Dragonite with Ice Punch. In addition, with a Jolly Nature it can reach 471 speed, allowing it to outspeed things like Adamant Scarf Salamence (it barely misses the speed of Jolly Scarf 100s though, sadly). But if u r looking for a Lead or Sweeper, go bulky Metagross, and for a Pivot, I would try something a bit more well, more.

When it comes to Raikou, Blissey and the other typical special sponges wall it for the most part, but they should be weary of CM and Toxic it off the bat so it won't have the time to pull off a sweep. That said, Raikou's ability to abuse multiple weather effects makes it a solid candidate for a Dual Weather team, which in DM I think is a bit more viable since the nerfs to Chlorophyll, Sand Rush, and such make dedicated weather teams less effective than originally.

I may have missed it, but it looks like no one has mentioned Suicune and Milotic yet. They are both really powerful threats due to immense bulk and solid stall/supporting ability. That said, Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, Raikou, and others do a pretty good job keeping them in line, but if they are overlooked, they will make your day go South for the Winter.

The last two pokemon I would like to mention are Darkrai and Genesect. Darkrai has proven a very potent yet underestimated threat (until recently anyway) in the metagame. Dark Void is not quite as appealing now with the 25% recoil, but is nonetheless a solid option. Darkrai's true power comes from the amazing stat distribution it has. Massive 135 SpA that ties with Chandelure's and a much higher 125 speed make it a very potent attacker. It can sweep/clean using Calm Mind or Swords Dance (my favorite), or it can run a simple attacker set that runs moves like Taunt and Substitute to hold stallers at bay. Genesect on the other hand sees little to no use, which imo is really dissapointing considering its abilities. With Download, Quick Powder and good coverage, it makes for a decent pivot and a very efficient late-game cleaner. With its good resistances it can probably run a decent Dual Screens set as well. I hope more people use it, so that we can learn more about what it is capable of doing.

Anyways, great work on the project Dusk, it is coming along very well! :D

I have to disagree with Light Metal Metagross not being a good lead. Metagross has the speed and power to threaten things in the lead position, allowing it to get rocks up without being taunted and not being slow as dirt. Not only that, but it gets a quick and powerful Explosion, something that got a nice buff in DM (I would say it's as good as Gen 4 explosion). Even without the adamant nature, Metagross hits 369 attack, which is nothing to laugh at. While I agree that a sweeping set is probably best left of for an Iron Fist set, Leadgross should definitely run Quick Powder Light Metal imo, as Leadgross appreciates hitting things hard before dying, whether it be with Meteor Mash or Explosion. Pivot Set would probably prefer Iron Fist than Light Metal as well (probably somthing like Meteor Mash / Toxic | ThunderPunch / Ice Punch / Earthquake | Explosion @ Iron Fist or something)

EDIT: Whoops, I meant that Pivotgross would like to have Iron Fist, not Light Metal. My bad :P (I think it was kind of obvious that's what I meant, but I'm bad at english ;-;

Yeah I can see how that works. The big issue imo with Light Metal Metagross as a lead is the fact that speedy leads are used because they can Taunt other leads faster. Metagross doesn't have Taunt Access, so it generally (emphasis on the generally) is better off being a bulky lead so it can gets Rocks up and Explode while taking hits. It also would have more power as a bulky Metagross (Running Adamant) and is thus generally more reliable. That said, a speedy lead could be interesting, and would probably be useful in that it wouldn't have to explode and would have value further on in the match. So in summary, I would recommend if one is running a speedy lead that he should not run Explosion, as that way he can hit things later in the match with STABs, EQ, Ice Punch, etc. Exploding as a suicide lead is probably better for bulky Metagross.

So moving on to my main point, DreMZ (The Reptile) and I got into a heated discussion about DM and discussed several things. So imma list some good ideas we came up with. First off is Gastrodon, and with fairly common Rain and Suicune running havoc all over the tier, one can't help but wonder where this thing went. It is a very good check to mentioned threats, and the reliable recovery is helpful and also the Electric immunity. Hitmontop was another concept. While it had some use when DM2 started, it seems to have dissapeared. It reality, it can make a great check to bulky threats since it can Triple Kick most of them and minimize their normally high defenses. Amoonguss vs Ferrothorn was another big one, and it comes down mostly to their abilities and typings. Clearly Ferrothorn wins the typing duel, as Steel/Grass is a great typing, granted useful resistances. At the same time, Amoonguss wins ability-wise with Regenerator access, allowing it to recover damage easily and giving it a key advantage. I'll say movepool-wise, Ferro gets the advantage in Hazard Setting, but Amoonguss makes for better Anti-Set Up with Clear Smog. Ultimately, it likely comes down to what your bulky Grass-type's function should be. Also, I have been testing Excadrill, who despite the Sand Rush nerf can get very high speed with Quick Powder. Kingdra works similarly, except he can use Dragon Dance and LO for more power. Anyways, I'm gonna mention that I think it would be a good idea to have some tournaments (rated or unrated) to help us learn more about the metagame, as with all the new changes, it is a bit difficult to get a handle on. :>

You know, Dusknoir is a pokemon I haven not seen anyone discuss. It's new typing really benefits it, and allows it to be one of the best walls in the game. It is capable of recovering with moonlight as long as you are able to keep rain/sand/hail off the field, and has will-o-wisp to neuter physical attackers. It is also capable of phasing or running a subpuch set. It really deserves more discussion.

Well, imo, Dusknoir is held back in that its typing doesn't grant it useful resistances. Other walls like Ferrothorn, for example, resist Rock, Dark, Ghost, Water, and others. That said, it has nice dual STABs and a powerful Focus Punch, but since it is hard to keep other weather off the field, it can really only truly shine on a dedicated Sun Team imo, which would still fair rather poorly against other weather teams.

Anyways, I am going the bring foward the concept of Suicune being OP. Now this is a very high argued topic, so I am going to put forth some reasons why it is OP. First off, I want to make clear what being OP is. Whenever I bring up this subject, the first thing I hear is something like "It's not OP, Magnezone, Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, and others can counter it." Just because something can be countered does not mean it is not OP. Deoxys-D, for example, was finally banned, yet Espeon, Scizor, Tyranitar, and others easily beat it. It was banned because it filled its role too effectively and reliably.That is really what OP means. In the case of sweepers, they typically need to be counterable to be OP. But when it comes to stallers/supporters, being OP means that they reliably wall most of the metagame too well or support their team too effectively. Moving this concept on to Suicune, we can see where problems are existing. Right off the bat, Suicune was buffed immensely by DM Universal changes. The disappearance of crits allowed Suicune to set up CM more reliable and effectively, and more importantly, access to the prized Water Absorb (later becoming Storm Drain) ability allowed it to wall things like Politoed, only fearing Toxic, and most Suicune at that point ran Rest anyway. Imo, this was where Suicune should have stayed, very effective, useful, but held back enough by lack of reliable recovery and support ability. However, we pushed it over the line when it got Wish. Wish is tbh the reason Suicune is OP. It gives Suicune two things that make it very powerful, reliable recovery and reliable team support. Suddenly, Suicune is more or less way better than other Bulky Waters, only rivaled by Milotic, and supports its team and itself with recovery. In addition, it can put Wish together with CM for a hard to beat offensive attacker. Suicune was clearly a great choice in OU without Wish, so why did we give it such a thing? It was probably because we did not think Suicune was viable yet, but tbh, it was. Now we see people forced to run some sort of Suicune counter in order to guarentee solid team success. Toxic is also a common method used to overcome it, but along with cleric support, such an option with not work very effectively. I would like to finish off this post by pointing out that "DM aims to balance the OU metagame". In a balanced OU metagame, we should not be forced to run counters to something, it should be a threat, but not a threat the metagame revolves around. My thoughts are that Suicune is good enough without Wish and that should likely be dropped to return some more balance to the metagame.

Oh, and I don't want to hear dumb comments like "Ferrothorn counters it", because I mentioned why that is not a good statement. :s

Nollan, about dusknoir, how are you saying it has bad typing? If we look at it, it gets quite a few key resists, specifically ones needed to beat almost all fighting types. It resists fighting, ground, and rock attacks, and along with it's excellent offensive typing and will-o-wisp, allows it to beat key pokemon such as terrakion, tyraniatar, excadrill, hitmonlee, landorus, and basically anything else a sand team is known to carry. This makes it even better on sun teams, which it was already good on due to it's access to moonlight.

Yeah, I meant the special side of things really. I guess I must admit, it does a good job walling several physical attackers, namely Terrakion. That said, while it scores unresisted STAB, it cannot abuse them very well, since while impressive nonetheless, 100 base Attack isn't going to be breaking through any of DM's bulky pokemon anytime soon (except Blissey and Chansey). With some more thought put into it, I think the key issue Dusknoir has is what I like to call "Scrafty syndrome". It's huge defenses are offset by a pathetic HP, and its solid attack is put off by pathetic speed. While it does make a great physical threat check, it suffers in that it is more or less shut down by Taunt, preventing it from getting Subs up or burning threats, a common issue among various bulky threats. Also notable is the fact that some very popular physical attackers such as Metagross and Weavile can still hit Dusknoir hard, while it cannot hit hard back (Weavile must be wary of sets packing Drain Punch though). That said, being one of the few pokemon capable of resisting the famous EdgeQuake combo, and the only one that can do it and burn is enough to earn it a spot on several teams.

On to my point, one threat I haven't seen anyone mention yet is Durant. It has massive Speed and Attack, and while frail, its defense is more than enough to take most priority attacks. After a Swords Dance boost, even Skarmory cannot switch in to its attacks, easily 2hkod by Superpower and Stone Edge. As if that wasn't enough, Durant has 109 base speed, allowing it to outspeed all sorts of threats, and with Quick Powder, while losing its raw power from Life Orb, it can outspeed Raikou and others. A CB set is also viable, allowing it to hit very hard off the bat. Also Dusknoir, a common check to physical attackers, is OHKOd 37.5% of the time when running Max HP and Max Defense. While it does have trouble setting up, if one pulls a Swords Dance off, something will die.

Anyways, for those who don't know, I've been taking a very serious look at DM recently (hence the long posts). So, one thing a have come across is the comparison of DM2's arguably best physical walls, Dusknoir and Bronzong. These two are very similar in that they have a much appreciated resistance to the infamous EdgeQuake combo, coverage the majority of physical attackers tend to run. Dusknoir, for some reason, has been used a lot, while Bronzong hasn't seen any use. So why? There are many possible reasons. One reason is likely Dusknoir's handy Fighting immunity, allowing it to wall more or less every Fighting type in existence. This said, Bronzong may take Neutral damage from Fighting, but can easily blow holes in them with its STAB Zen Headbutt. In addition, Bronzong's secondary Steel typing grants it a ton of resistances over Dusknoir, such as Grass, Ice, Psychic, and Flying. The biggest advantage Dusknoir has over Bronzong is reliable recovery, which Bronzong would kill for. That said, Bronzong has the coveted ability to set rocks, and also Heal Bell, allowing it to function as a cleric. Both have Will O' Wisp, which is another key reason to why they make such great physical walls. At the end of the day, I would say both of them make for good physical checks, and the one you use should depend on your team's needs. That said, they actually have fairly good synergy, so using both is definitely an option.

To be honest, they don't seem that similar to me. Still, I think you may be forgetting that Dusknoir is capable of spinblocking quite admirably. Most spinblockers are physical and can be crippled by WoW, and while Dusknoir has to be wary of Starmie using Psychic when was the last time you saw that? Dusknoir also has STAB priority (not the best, I know) and actual offensive presence.
Plus, Bronzong is kind of competing with Jirachi with that type combo. And while Bronzong has Levitate, Jirachi is bulkier and doesn't cost you your momentum (though it may cost you your friendships.) Really, Bronzong has its niche, but it's not the kind of thing you can just slap on a team. And since no-one has ever decided to build a team around Bronzong you probably aren't going to see it as much as Dusknoir.
Plus Dusknoir has Dusk in its name and so has a behind-the-scenes bonuses.
...I think.

Jirachi doesn't compete with Bronzong at all to be honest, for several reasons. First off, apart from a very unreliable Fire Punch, Jirachi has no way to burn opponents. Second off, Bronzong's Ground immunity is extremely vital in walling Physical attackers, as Ground is one of the most common Physical Attacking types in the game (there is a reason you only see Specially Defensive Jirachi). In addition, Bronzong has a nice 89 base attack, along with great coverage and a Gyro Ball that often hits 150bp. One of the most inaccurate statements you can make is dismissing Bronzong as having no offensive presense. In addition, Bronzong gets Heal Bell, allowing it to act as a cleric. And as I have said multiple times, they are similar in that they both wall common physical attackers. Bronzong has one of the best defensive typings in the game in combination with Levitate, and is definitely something you can throw on most, if not all, teams, simply because it can set Rocks, stop Physcial Attackers in their tracks, hit hard, and act as a cleric. That is a large amount of diversity in its roles. :s

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I'd like to solicit opinions on EVing Hitmonchan. While less intimidating than Hitmonlee, 'chan has better coverage and survivability. Of course setting up a physical attacker that isn't immune to burn requires some team support such as a cleric like Bronzong, or something like Heatran. The EVs are tricky; with the belt, 'chan wants speed and HP EVs, but of course also needs attack investment. He wants to hit fast and hard, but also be able to set up against slow teams. What I've got right now is this:

Hitmonchan (M) @ Black Belt
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 180 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Shadow Punch
- Ice Punch
- Bulk Up

This hits 384 after the Black Belt boost, outpacing Darkrai. I put 252 in HP to maximize both the Belt's SpDef boost and Bulk Up's Def boost. The rest into attack, but I'm not sure if this is the optimum spread.

Why do I get the feeling that Genesect getting Download again instead of Motor Drive is my fault?

Wait, Black Belt has a new effect? I really did miss a lot.

It buffs Hitmonlee a lot. Basically a Choice Scarf without the Choice with +1 SpDef too.

Also bumping this b/c people have to know about this awesome meta

A lot of people do know about this metagame to be honest. Since I haven't seen much chat about it, I think I will discuss a bit I have learned about DuskMod Doubles.

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First off, Tornadus is fairly good, spamming priority Taunts and Swaggers, and also capable of setting weather or Tailwind with priority. In addition, it can slow down the opposition with Icy Wind. Another decent set making its return from VGC 2013 is offensive Tornadus. Due to the larger pool of Intimidate abusers, Defiant Tornadus can be a very hard threat to deal with. Flying Gem Acrobatics and Superpower allow it to hit things hard, and with 111 base speed it gets the jump on most threats, allowing it to still abuse Taunt and the likes. Other solid Defiant abusers would be Bisharp (currently VGC's most popular Defiant pokemon due to Sucker Punch), Purugly (sorta gimmicky, but the only Defiant-mon with Fake Out access), and Braviary, with Empoleon and Primeape offering decent options.

Discussing some buffed pokemon, we hit Chandelure, who just can't get enough help out of Levitate. It also can run the standard Trick Room + Imprison set, and simply set Trick Room for a team as well. Dusknoir also gets some mention, although it tends to go a more support role, running Trick Room, Will O' Wisp, and the likes to help out the team. It can get Helping Hand from a 3rd Generation event (Pokemon XD) though, which is nice. Rotom-Wash, while already very popular for its ability to dismantle Rain pokemon outside of Ludicolo and Gastrodon, gets Surf and Scald, which are useful, though fairly situational. Metagross can suddenly be a fast attacker rather than bulky attacker, though I still prefer bulky since it allows him to avoid Intimidate via Clear Body, and he can take hits that way. Still, that Latios isn't going to be appreciating a surprise Ice Punch to the face, so it is certainly an option. Staraptor benefits from ExtremeSpeed I guess. Hail as a strategy has improved a lot, and given the good coverage of Ice in Doubles, it should be fairly popular. That said, it is far from OP, and anyone who tries to run a bunch of Blizzard spam will be obliterated by Metagross, HitmonBOSS, and the likes. Ambipom has a ton of priority now, which makes it very popular, and Fake Out Azumarill is sure to be seen often. Bronzong gets Will O' Wisp, which I guess is a slight buff. There are a ton of Intimidate abusers, as well as some Dread abusers, which affect the metagame significantly. There are a ton of new Mach Punch users, such as Machamp and Heracross. Rotom-Heat enjoys Heat Wave a lot, and likes to not have to run Fire Gem Overheat all of the time. The world also gets Taunt Accelgor, giving its usually one-sided set some options. Entei is fairly good with ExtremeSpeed and Earthquake, though it will most likely be used for little outside of Choice Attacking. Hariyama enjoys Sumo Slam, though the damage it does is generally not significant other than picking off threats that would be taken out by priority anyway. Still, Fake Out access allows it to function fairly well. Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee are now pretty fast, though they have low defense, and due to Intimidate, Hitmontop is still much better, lasting longer and tanking hits better. Kecleon is extremely popular and likely extremely overrated, it can abuse Color Change with Skill Swap, but has a very low offensive presence. Fun gimmick though, I suppose.

Sludge Wave gets a special mention, as due to Poison's better coverage, it is useful against almost any Rain team. Sludge Wave Gastrodon will be a great threat to Rain teams, and Sheer Force Landorus may actually see some use on Sand as a anti-rain pokemon. Note that Sludge Wave also hits allies, so pairing up with the popular Steel pokemon, such as Scizor, Metagross, and Heatran, can be useful.

Anyways, I'm hoping that Doubles will get some recognition soon, it is a nice metagame overall.

I'm honestly wondering how Trick Room would fare in this OM. With a wider movepool for Reuniclus along with insta-Zen Mode Darmanitan, I think it could become more viable. And then on top Ambipom could abuse his new moves outside of Trick Room to remove threats that would beat up on Reuniclus.

I actually have an article (atm a rough draft) that discusses Trick Room briefly. Overall, it can be solid with good support, but it does have problems in that a large portion of the metagame is built to be slower and bulky, which gives Trick Room teams some issues. Taunt also can be a problem. That said, Trick Room is certainly an option.