Pokémon Florges

[El Coqui]

Floges like Sylveon in my opinion are teetering on the RU/UU fence. They have potential but abilities and other factors hinder them greatly. Both can run SpDef sets but get destroyed on the physical side. Both can run Calm Mind sets but movepools dont allow for bettr coverage. With that being said they are Fairies so they can reach UU since they are the anti-dragons.

Anyways... Florges your abilities make me never want to use you. Its almost like im playing with a handicap. If you do choose to run Florges a spdef set or calmMind is about all you can ask for

 

[zferolie]

Floges like Sylveon in my opinion are teetering on the RU/UU fence. They have potential but abilities and other factors hinder them greatly. Both can run SpDef sets but get destroyed on the physical side. Both can run Calm Mind sets but movepools dont allow for bettr coverage. With that being said they are Fairies so they can reach UU since they are the anti-dragons.


Anyways...Florges your abilities make me never want to use you. Its almost like im playing with a handicap. If you do choose to run Florges a spdef set or calmMind is about all you can ask for

I agree about her abilities... I hate abilities that seem to be designed only for 2v2 since I never do team battles. Doesn't help that my team doesn't use a grass pokemon.

That being said, her being a SpD Wall/supporting is what she is good at. Wish and Misty Terrain is a good combination. GIves you safeguard for everyone and you can heal teammates, and you get more dragon protection. Sure, your foes also get a safeguard, but my team doesn't really use much status, other then moves that may also cause them, so that downside is not that major.

I am still tempted to toss some EV's into SpA though, just so she can still hit decently.

Now I wonder... is there an item that extends the duration of these terrain moves? That would make the move much better.

As for CM, other then Moon Blast, HP, and Energy Ball... what else? Nature power is an option, which I use right now for IG purposes because she needed another spA. I suppose if she didn't have a good HP Nature Power would work... however it is blocked by Taunt...

 

[zferolie]

I'm not 100% certain if it is better though. The SAtk drop from Moonblast is pretty good, after all, especially if you're using it as a support-mon. Really, it's an amazing benefit for all of the SDef Fairy tanks.

I like Moonblast for that reason, but I can see the benifit of Hyper Voice for more attacking sets.

I was doing some attack type calcs, and while Energy Ball is nice, Psychic gives her better neutral coverage. If you have 2 spots set for support(like I plan to with Misty Terrain and Wish) I think the other 2 spots should be Moon Blast and Psychic. With those 2 moves, the only type that will resist you are Steels, and the rare fire/Psychic. If you had Energy Ball, you would not be able to touch poisons as well. Might as well be able to take care of one of your weaknesses right? If you have only one support move, have all 3 attacks. It removes some steel resistances. The ones with Ground, Water, and Rock, and lets you hit more types for SE.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Let's assume that Florges doesn't learn Recover for now, since assumptions can lead to wild and untrue possibilities (Rapid Spin Greninja, anybody?). Additionally, there hasn't been any solid proof that Florges or its family members does indeed get it.

Without Recover, Florges is left with Wish, which...really isn't that great on it considering its Wishes suck (low HP) and the healing only activates on the next turn, which may force ir to run Protect, which in turn limits the set. The lack of recover also limits the use of a defensive Calm Mind set; Florges could easily do with Recover + Aromatherapy.

 

[Lady Valkyrie]

If Symbiosis works in singles, which I'm not sure it will, perhaps it can pass it's item (Leftovers) to a team member not holding anything. Or maybe it gives it over on death? I could imagine something like this being useful, a poke that can utilize a Flying Gem/Acrobatics getting passed Leftovers latter in the match. Other than that, I'm not sure what the ability would do, I somehow doubt any of its abilities will be that good.

Sylveon only passes 15 more HP than Florges does but Florges has a much better speed tier, outspeeding non-invested Skarmory and Jellicent (avoiding taunt), Politoed, Scizor (may become a thing with its Mega) and T-Tar. I think on some teams, it'll be better then Sylveon, just depends what you're going for.

 

[MudcrabDL]

I don't really get why everyone is so negative in these threads. Sure, her ability is balls, and her physical bulk is negligible. But saying Florges' defense makes her terrible is like saying Ferrothorn is terrible for her bad Special Attack. Honestly, Florges is one of the best Cleric pokemon I've ever seen. With a great defensive typing, and a set of Aromatherapy, Wish, Moonblast and Protect, you can switch in on any dedicated Special attacker and just absorb hits while curing your team of status and recovering your own health, letting off a Moonblast every so often to whittle them down. Combine this with, say, Toxic Spikes support, and you have an absolutely insane special wall who can also uncripple any sweeper with Burn/Paralysis/Sleep, or give a second lease on life to anything with a good Wish switch, all the while letting any switchin just die slowly. Seriously, this is mostly just anecdotal from my experiences in Battle Spot, but Florges can take STAB Thunderbolts off Jolteon and not lose more than 25% of her health. She literally hard counters special attacks. Combine this with partners who can take hits on the physical side of things, say Chesnaught or any number of Steel pokemon, and with proper prediction, you can stall people to death.

 

[Suplup]

Now, I'm new here, so I don't know that much about competitive. However, I stalk these forums a bit so I like to think I know something.

In any case, I caught a Shiny Blue Flabébé the other day, and I'd like to use it. With its abilities and such I think she would be a great support to a Grass Pelt Gogoat, what with her Flower Veil and Grassy Terrain. I think an ideal set would be something along the lines of:

Florges @ Leftovers / Terrain-turn-increasing item if that's ever a thing
Flower Veil
Mine is Quirky but Calm would be the best bet, Gentle if you want that extra Def.
252 HP / 252 Sp.D / 4 Def if using Calm or 252 HP / 88 Sp.D / 168 Def if using Gentle for an even sort of spread.
Moves:
Grassy Terrain
Dazzling Gleam / Moonblast
Wish / Recover
Protect / Misty Terrain / Aromatherapy

Grassy Terrain for extra heals and activates Grass Pelt on Gogoat. Dazzling Gleam could be an option over Moonblast if battling exclusively doubles, as it hits both targets. However, the Sp.A drop on Moonblast is nice, so it really depends. Wish if she doesn't get Recover, Recover if she does. For the last moveslot, Protect is almost, if not mandatory if she's using Wish, although it could work if she's not because of Grassy Terrain + Leftovers. However, if there ever is a Terrain-turn-increasing item, then Misty Terrain could be a good option. It's a Safeguard with Dragon resistance. Should the 5-turn count not work out well, Aromatherapy is an option that does a bit more concerning statuses.

This is my first time talking about a competitive set, so feedback and critique would be appreciated.

 

[MegaKick]

So is there any reason to run this over sylveon besides the higher speed, considering sylveon has better hp which gives it better wishes, better physical bulk, and comparable special bulk, and has stronger Stab thanks to the boost from pixilate?

 

[NotSoClutch]

Florges, as of now, appears to be the best terrain setter in the game. We should try to focus on that for the current meta considering the tiering process has yet to begin. On a grassy terrain team, if that becomes a thing, florges has the ability to take hits and potentially provide enough offensive pressure to force switches. Florges can also pass wishes onto Pokemon like gogoat that love grassy terrain. Misty terrain has some interesting implications as well, but I am not really familiar enough with it to understand what all it can be used with.

 

[MegaHeliolisk]

Now it may be a dumb idea and I'd love to test it "But I can't seem to connect to pokemon showdown right now".
But is potentially viable for her to run a set that utilizes an assault vest?

 

[RabidChipmunk]

Now it may be a dumb idea and I'd love to test it "But I can't seem to connect to pokemon showdown right now".
But is potentially viable for her to run a set that utilizes an assault vest?

I've thought about this before as well, but the issue always becomes " what moves will she use?" Moonblast, a grass move, Psychic, and what? Whatever you do with it, Florges gets walled hard by Steel types unless they're 4x weak to HP Fire. Stick to AV Goodra.

 

[MegaHeliolisk]

I've thought about this before as well, but the issue always becomes " what moves will she use?" Moonblast, a grass move, Psychic, and what? Whatever you do with it, Florges gets walled hard by Steel types unless they're 4x weak to HP Fire. Stick to AV Goodra.

Right, I was just wondering because I've had a fair amount of success with assault vest users but I haven't played with Florges yet.
That said, I really do want to play with it but I'm having a difficult time freeing up a slot on my team of Heliolisk's =3.

 

[MagnetBoy]

assault vest also kills most of what florges has going for it.

Reasons to take it over blissey

- Wish support (huge)
- fairy STAB/fairy typing (huge)
- can put out some decent damage with moonblast (minor)

cons
- less tanky
- have to run protect usually with wish if you need the healing for yourself
- less versatile offensively (no room for toxic, seismic toss, flamethrower, ice beam all decent options on blissey with serene grace)

 

[Vashimus]

Reasons to take it over blissey

- Wish support (huge)
- fairy STAB/fairy typing (huge)
- can put out some decent damage with moonblast (minor)

Blissey also has Wish support. Just not until Pokebank comes.

 

[Kejmur]

Blissey also has Wish support. Just not until Pokebank comes.

And I hardly call Florges Wishes good with only 78 base HP. When it goes to Wish Passing, there are better options for this. Also unfortunately her typing advantage is not that important when you realize that her resistances (Dark, Fighting, Dragon) are mostly physically based and with her not so great physical bulk technically all of them may find a way to get through her. Sure, she can tank special hits really well, but... there are other options for this as good, if not better for this.

 

[November Blue]

Wow, this thing is incredible.

I'd been using Goodra for special defense, and just decided to switch to Florges on a whim. Its bulk is insane. I can easily grab a few turns to Wish and Aromatherapize, and Moonblast is pretty powerful too (an excuse to use one of my favorite new attacks is always good).

I'm running:

Florges @ Leftovers
252 HP / 160 SpA / 96 SpD
Calm

Wish
Protect
Aromatherapy
Moonblast

I kinda threw together the EVs. I wanted some extra power behind my Moonblasts, but there's no specific reason for them. They give 300 SpA and 404 SpD.

One advantage Florges has over Sylveon is that it can run a set like this. Sylveon needs full investment to reach 394 SpD, while Florges only needs around 80 EVs to get the same number. This allows it to invest more in its Special Attack, giving it 300 to Sylveon's 256. Stronger Moonblasts matter.

I'll keep playing, see if I can optimize the EVs.

EDIT: Is there a way to switch formes on Showdown? I'd really like a blue Florges...

 

[Jayd]

Wow, this thing is incredible.

I'd been using Goodra for special defense, and just decided to switch to Florges on a whim. Its bulk is insane. I can easily grab a few turns to Wish and Aromatherapize, and Moonblast is pretty powerful too (an excuse to use one of my favorite new attacks is always good).

I'm running:

Florges @ Leftovers
252 HP / 160 SpA / 96 SpD
Calm

Wish
Protect
Aromatherapy
Moonblast

I kinda threw together the EVs. I wanted some extra power behind my Moonblasts, but there's no specific reason for them. They give 300 SpA and 404 SpD.

One advantage Florges has over Sylveon is that it can run a set like this. Sylveon needs full investment to reach 394 SpD, while Florges only needs around 80 EVs to get the same number. This allows it to invest more in its Special Attack, giving it 300 to Sylveon's 256. Stronger Moonblasts matter.

I'll keep playing, see if I can optimize the EVs.

Running this set with full Sp.D investment. It's won me more than one game by just shutting down all the Pokemon my opponent had left. Special attackers basically can't get through it and status is a minor issue with Aromatherapy. At first I wanted to run Toxic or something over Protect, but after using it for a while I wouldn't change a thing. Even uninvested its Sp.A is strong enough to put out good damage, and that is not a minor issue at all.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

I'm sorry, but isn't this thing completly outclassed by Sylveon?
-Better HP for Wish
-Stronger Stab (Hyper Voice Pix.) which also breaks Substitute -> can invest more in defenses
-Gets Heal Bell (same role)
-Sylveon has much more style, just sayin.

 

[November Blue]

I'm sorry, but isn't this thing completly outclassed by Sylveon?
-Better HP for Wish
-Stronger Stab (Hyper Voice Pix.) which also breaks Substitute -> can invest more in defenses
-Gets Heal Bell (same role)
-Sylveon has much more style, just sayin.

Why don't you give my post a read? It's only a couple of posts up.

Florges has higher Speed and higher Special Defense, which gives it more flexibility in its EV spreads. Sylveon does have higher HP, but damage calcs have shown that, with a 252 HP / 252+ SpDef EV spread, their bulk is almost identical.

The difference in Wish size isn't that big, tbh. Florges' are 180 HP. Sylveon's are 197. For most Pokemon, that's less than 10%. Not a huge difference.

 

[NotSoClutch]

Why don't you give my post a read? It's only a couple of posts up.

Florges has higher Speed and higher Special Defense, which gives it more flexibility in its EV spreads. Sylveon does have higher HP, but damage calcs have shown that, with a 252 HP / 252+ SpDef EV spread, their bulk is almost identical.

The difference in Wish size isn't that big, tbh. Florges' are 180 HP. Sylveon's are 197. For most Pokemon, that's less than 10%. Not a huge difference.

Sylveon ends up doing more damage due to pixilate,$editted out$ than florges and better physical bulk. The added speed is nice, however most of what florges outspeeds is irrelevant. The greater HP allows for better wish passes and sylveon can run baton pass sets if need be. Before Pokebank, florges had a huge advantage woth aromatherapy and a slightly better offenses. This wont be the case in a couple of days. Florges is still the best grassy terrain and misty terrain setter and is a fantastic doubles pokemon, but for everything it should be doing on a singles team, it is outclassed by sylveon.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Sylveon ends up doing more damage due to pixilate, its higher HP gives it slightly more special bulk than florges and better physical bulk. The added speed is nice, however most of what florges outspeeds is irrelevant. The greater HP allows for better wish passes and sylveon can run baton pass sets if need be. Before Pokebank, florges had a huge advantage woth aromatherapy and a slightly better offenses. This wont be the case in a couple of days. Florges is still the best grassy terrain and misty terrain setter and is a fantastic doubles pokemon, but for everything it should be doing on a singles team, it is outclassed by sylveon.

just a quick nitpick: Florges is specially bulkier

 

[NotSoClutch]

just a quick nitpick: Florges is specially bulkier

Yep, made a mistake there. Regardless, sylveon is better for its overall bulk, power, movepool, and wishes. Sorry for the missinfo.

 

[Jabhut]

Florges is so fun to use. It's defenses are good enough to switch in and get an aromatherapy off, which is almost essential with all the rotom-w's. It works well and can crush opponents with no sp.D investment, even with minimal investment itself. I wish it got a cooler secret ability, but all the same it could be interesting in doubles.

 

[El Coqui]

Yep, made a mistake there. Regardless, sylveon is better for its overall bulk, power, movepool, and wishes. Sorry for the missinfo.

Doesnt Florges also get Aromatheropy and Wish, near the same moves, and have better spdef and spatt? Ill be honest both Fairies seem exactly the same to me and i really wouldnt use either of them though Pixelate Sylveon at least gets a powerful HyperVoice when bank is released.

Anyways i still find Florges less than because of its abilities but ive come realize i NEVER have something for it if/when i run into it on showdown

 

[NotSoClutch]

Doesnt Florges also get Aromatheropy and Wish, near the same moves, and have better spdef and spatt? Ill be honest both Fairies seem exactly the same to me and i really wouldnt use either of them though Pixelate Sylveon at least gets a powerful HyperVoice when bank is released.

Anyways i still find Florges less than because of its abilities but ive come realize i NEVER have something for it if/when i run into it on showdown

Florges does have wish and aromatherapy, but its wish pass are less useful than sylveon because of the difference in HP. In prebank, florges is better than sylveon because it already has access to aromatherapy while sylveon cannot access heal bell. After bank, which comes out in a week, sylveons comparable special bulk and significantly better physical bulk, accompanied by screens and a more powerful stab in pixilate hyper voice, make sylveon the better choice (although it is technically by only a small margin). Florges has a niche because of its grass coverage, but it is a very small niche. Florges can also run grassy and misty terrain, however, no one seems to run either of these, so its pointless to consider this a significant advantage (even though grassy terrain is awesome on teams with go goat).