Thing is, that bad speed jumps to a good 100 when she Mega Evolves.
And is 80 really that bad? seems around average to me.
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Pokémon Gardevoir
- Thread starter Halcyon.
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And is 80 really that bad? seems around average to me.
80 is ok but if you invest 0 IV and 0 EV into it, you can invest them into other stats like HP and SpA and take advantage of trick room or her massive support move pool. and for a sweeper is base 100 speed enough unboosted? compared to the base 130 of mega gangar or the base 150 of mega alakazam? for some reason i still feel that gardevoir still works best as a support even with dragon immunity. i honestly would save the mega for someone else instead of gardevoir.
Base 80 could be considered the absolute maximum speed that's acceptable for Trick Room. Gardevoir isn't nearly bulky enough to be used, though. It takes a clean OHKO from Scizor's Bullet Punch, Azumarill's Waterfall, or even Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball, just to name a few random ones off the top of my head. Most teams will be able to handle it without any trouble. I'd just stick to using the Mega forme for all-out attacking if you're going to use Gardevoir at all.
Yeah, Trick Room doesn't seem like it's that impressive of an option for Gardevoir. Its Speed is decent for TR, but it's incredibly frail for a TR user; Reuniclus is also a better TR sweeper in my opinion since it's both slower and bulkier (at least physically). The way to go is probably CM Gardevoir or Support Gardy; both are decent and Gardevoir can go either offensive or defensive, actually. Mega Gardy can only really do CM sets well, by the way.
Also iirc Hyper Voice is illegal right now since Gardy got it through BW2 tutors. Gardevoir is definitely looking like it'll see good use in OU this gen, btw.
Also iirc Hyper Voice is illegal right now since Gardy got it through BW2 tutors. Gardevoir is definitely looking like it'll see good use in OU this gen, btw.
Psyshock is better to hit things that have high Sp Def.
Whats she like with her Def capability maxed out? With a 4X fighting resist and a dragon immunity many sweepers would be force to hit her with coverage moves, and since she is only weak to poison and bug now she won't be taking many SE hits, bar U-Turn and the occasional iron head.
Been thinking about an all out support and stopper Gardie, but will probably just go CM in the end.
Bold,
Trace,
Leftovers
252 Def. 252 HP, 6 SpA.
Will-o-Wisp
Thunderbolt,
Moonblast
Wish
Takes phys hits surprisingly well from what ive tested with it so far IMO. Switch in on Fighting or Dragon, then WoW or attack. Main issue so far is Scizor but even he doesn't like being burned. Been considering moving at least some EV's into Speed as well to outspeed certain monsters. Tbolt is to it both steels and other fairies (particularly azumarill and togekiss).
So glad game freak gave gardie some love though. Great new typing, new moves and a meta that seems much more favourable to her in general.
Been thinking about an all out support and stopper Gardie, but will probably just go CM in the end.
Bold,
Trace,
Leftovers
252 Def. 252 HP, 6 SpA.
Will-o-Wisp
Thunderbolt,
Moonblast
Wish
Takes phys hits surprisingly well from what ive tested with it so far IMO. Switch in on Fighting or Dragon, then WoW or attack. Main issue so far is Scizor but even he doesn't like being burned. Been considering moving at least some EV's into Speed as well to outspeed certain monsters. Tbolt is to it both steels and other fairies (particularly azumarill and togekiss).
So glad game freak gave gardie some love though. Great new typing, new moves and a meta that seems much more favourable to her in general.
Well, I was just saying what she currently has. I am going to change it to calm mind, moonblast, Psyshock, SHadow Ball.
She takes neutral damage from bug, and is weak to Steel, Ghost, and Poison.
I apologize if this isn't quite the right place for this, but how's Pixilate Round looking in doubles/triples? MGardevoir's base 100 speed is far from impressive, but it could pair up with Aurorus for a Refrigerate bonus, and also offsets Aurorus' awful speed stat. If those two abilities really do grant a 30% damage bonus and I understand Round correctly, that's two 156 bp aoe attacks at 100% accuracy before STAB. maybe it'd be more suited to triples where you can slap a soundproof/telepathy mon in between them. Gimmicky, but is it awful?
Is Psychic really necessary on Gardevoir anymore? Psyshock I understand would be needed to hit Chansey / Blissey, but with it's new Fairy typing it can still hit Fighting Types and has a powerful STAB that now also hits Dark Types hard. The only real benefit to Psychic would be to hit Poison Types that may come in on Gardevoir to resist it's Fairy attack or even try to threaten her out with STAB Poison attacks. But Psychic is only strong against Fighting and Poison, whereas Fairy is Super Effective to Fighting (redundant with Psychic), Dark (Psychic won't even hit it), and Dragon. Both are resisted by Steel and Fairy is also resisted by Psn and Fire.
Also, Gardevoir gets Shadow Ball, and the Combination of Ghost / Fairy is only resisted by Pyroar. Everything else I can think of it hits Neutrally.
Here is the Gardevoir I am currently using.
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite | Timid
HP 252 / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
-Moonblast
-Shadow Ball
-Calm Mind
-Psyshock (literally only for Blissey and Chansey)
Also, Gardevoir gets Shadow Ball, and the Combination of Ghost / Fairy is only resisted by Pyroar. Everything else I can think of it hits Neutrally.
Here is the Gardevoir I am currently using.
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite | Timid
HP 252 / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
-Moonblast
-Shadow Ball
-Calm Mind
-Psyshock (literally only for Blissey and Chansey)
Psychic vs Psyshock depends on the tier imho.
In NU, Psychic is undoubtedly better, it has higher BP, and with the physically defensive Poison-types running around (Weezing/Garbodor most notably), Garde really wants to flat out OHKO them, and most special walls can be broken with Psychic/T-Bolt/Moonblast anyway, or can be set up on by a teammate (Gurdurr, for example), the only exception being the nonexistant Munchlax (which doesn't appreciate Focus Blasts).
In OU, things are slightly different, with better special walls that don't have similar abusable flaws one way or another, so Psyshock is something that should be considered.
In NU, Psychic is undoubtedly better, it has higher BP, and with the physically defensive Poison-types running around (Weezing/Garbodor most notably), Garde really wants to flat out OHKO them, and most special walls can be broken with Psychic/T-Bolt/Moonblast anyway, or can be set up on by a teammate (Gurdurr, for example), the only exception being the nonexistant Munchlax (which doesn't appreciate Focus Blasts).
In OU, things are slightly different, with better special walls that don't have similar abusable flaws one way or another, so Psyshock is something that should be considered.
The problem with gardevoir is that, strangely enough, thanks to her new STAB option, she suffers from 4MSS. Moonblast, Psyshock, Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, Calm Mind, Energy Ball, Focus Blast. If you run Calm Mind SOMETHING is going to wall you. Without Psyshock you can't do anything to special walls or poison types, so it has to be on any set, imo.
I suppose the best coverage would be Psyshock/Moonblast/FocusBlast/ThunderBolt. If you can baton pass a Nasty Plot to her through Togekiss for example, she can OHKO anything in the pre-pokebank metagame bar Multiscale Dragonite, Quagsire and Shield Form Aegislash (and possibly assault vest TTar, though 4x weak to Focus Blast...)
Speaking of which, I really feel that Gardevoir makes for a great Baton Pass-team sweeper, despite lacking baton pass itself. Togekiss can easily pass Nasty Plot without worrying to much about getting killed thanks to its bulk, and Scolipede can ALWAYS pass at least one Iron Defense and 2 Speed Boosts when given a Focus Sash allowing her to take priority attacks like Bullet Punch and Shadow Sneak much better.
I suppose the best coverage would be Psyshock/Moonblast/FocusBlast/ThunderBolt. If you can baton pass a Nasty Plot to her through Togekiss for example, she can OHKO anything in the pre-pokebank metagame bar Multiscale Dragonite, Quagsire and Shield Form Aegislash (and possibly assault vest TTar, though 4x weak to Focus Blast...)
Speaking of which, I really feel that Gardevoir makes for a great Baton Pass-team sweeper, despite lacking baton pass itself. Togekiss can easily pass Nasty Plot without worrying to much about getting killed thanks to its bulk, and Scolipede can ALWAYS pass at least one Iron Defense and 2 Speed Boosts when given a Focus Sash allowing her to take priority attacks like Bullet Punch and Shadow Sneak much better.
i'm actually experimenting with getting draining kiss onto gardevoir through breeding. if that succeeded i can see duo screen gardevoir being a very powerful. i'll be back with the results soon (TM). if anyone has already tried this i would love hear the results to see if it works. thanks
The turn Gengar comes in Shadow Tag will be in effect AFTER you switch (since mega-evolution happens after you switch out). The big boon with hyper voice is that it ignores substitutes (which is huge since substitute fighting types/dragon types are OHKOed easy).
for the 30% increase thing, i just went to try out takedown on my 2 silveons, one with pixilate and the other without it. i can say for sure that the one with pixilate did more damage to a mawhile than my non pixilate sylveon. i cant say how much difference it made because of the random factor in each attack but it does seem there's at least some kind of power boost in converted abilities from pixilate. that or my pixilate sylveon got really lucky :/
ID Scolipede passes Speed and Defense, two stats that Megavoir somewhat lacks... In theory that sounds like one of the best BP partners for it, although Quiver Dance sounds pretty good too. Keep in mind, though, that this leaves Gardevoir more prone to being revenged from like Scizor/Lucario's Bullet Punch and (to a lesser extent) things like Azumarill Aqua Jet or Lucario/Dnite ExSpeed, etc.
...I'm likin' the idea of that Scolipede. I think it's pretty straightforwardly superior, actually.
Anyone got any good ideas for an anti-steel type partner for Gardevoir? My first thought went to Magenzone, who can trap and take out most Steel types with HP Fire (Or with the HP nerf can it even do that anymore?) Or maybe something more straight forward like Blaziken? I'm kind of new at Competitive battling so if this is a newb question sorry :P
The only steel type guaranteed to have a steel move is Scizor. Many steels Gardevoir can probably bypass herself with a combination of Focus Blast and Thunderbolt if she had her SpA boosted. Blaziken is good and can even Baton Pass speed boosts to her so he'd make make a good companion.
The problem is, a lot of major Steel types are faster than Gardevoir, meaning without any speed boosts passed over, it easily gets KO'd by Scizor, Lucario, Aegislash, or Excadrill if it is not MegaEvolved yet. And even if it is, Scizor will always carry Bullet Punch, Lucario has Extreme Speed and more often than not also carries bullet punch now. Aegislash has Shadow Sneak, and Excadrill is usually backed up with sandstorm, so will also outspeed MegaGardevoir quite often. MegaMawhile has Iron Head, and Sucker Punch will usually also KO MegaGarde.
It's best to switch out of steel types regardless if you carry Focus Miss or not, unless you had Defense boosts passed to you. The only one you can stay in on, unboosted, is Ferrothorn or sandstorm-less Excadrill. And then you better hope Focus Miss doesn't stay true to its name and you know...misses.
Here's my Mega Gardevoir setup:
Nereid (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 244 HP / 136 Def / 128 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Scald
- Baton Pass
- Acid Armor
- Substitute
Xana (Gardevoir) (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
I send out Vaporeon vs. a weak type or starting hazard setter and sub. If they switch, I'm able to set up acid armour. If they decide to set up, I either boost with another acid armour and then baton pass, or I just baton pass immediately to Gardevoir. Behind the sub, I use calm mind and Mega-evolve. They will often then take down the sub, but then I'm set up to sweep! It relies a lot on prediction, and perfect scenarios, but even if I can just pass the acid armour without the sub, Mega Gardevoir is much more tanky and can survive pretty huge physical blows! The times it's worked (which is more than you'd think because people will try and set up against my Vaporeon, giving me an extra turn to baton pass), I can sweep up to three or four of their pokemon at the beginning of the round! I even OHKO'd a doubly sword-danced Lucario (not mega) in this way, who got me down to ~30% with bullet punch. The opponent then sent out a Noivern who used shadow ball, and I survived with ~5% and OHKO'd him too! The setup also works out well if I start with Vaporeon knowing that they're starting with a hazard setter, because it gives me more turns to set up. I use Vaporeon to baton pass to other pokemon as well, like Trevenant or Breloom as well, depending on the situation, so it's not really a waste of a team member either!
I know it looks like a grandiose and idealistic sort of setup, but tell me what you guys think of it! :D
(p.s. It's my first time posting here, so be gentle) :P
Edit: It's funny that EternalDream posted that bit about passing defense boosts, because while I was writing this he posted his comment.
Nereid (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 244 HP / 136 Def / 128 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Scald
- Baton Pass
- Acid Armor
- Substitute
Xana (Gardevoir) (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
I send out Vaporeon vs. a weak type or starting hazard setter and sub. If they switch, I'm able to set up acid armour. If they decide to set up, I either boost with another acid armour and then baton pass, or I just baton pass immediately to Gardevoir. Behind the sub, I use calm mind and Mega-evolve. They will often then take down the sub, but then I'm set up to sweep! It relies a lot on prediction, and perfect scenarios, but even if I can just pass the acid armour without the sub, Mega Gardevoir is much more tanky and can survive pretty huge physical blows! The times it's worked (which is more than you'd think because people will try and set up against my Vaporeon, giving me an extra turn to baton pass), I can sweep up to three or four of their pokemon at the beginning of the round! I even OHKO'd a doubly sword-danced Lucario (not mega) in this way, who got me down to ~30% with bullet punch. The opponent then sent out a Noivern who used shadow ball, and I survived with ~5% and OHKO'd him too! The setup also works out well if I start with Vaporeon knowing that they're starting with a hazard setter, because it gives me more turns to set up. I use Vaporeon to baton pass to other pokemon as well, like Trevenant or Breloom as well, depending on the situation, so it's not really a waste of a team member either!
I know it looks like a grandiose and idealistic sort of setup, but tell me what you guys think of it! :D
(p.s. It's my first time posting here, so be gentle) :P
Edit: It's funny that EternalDream posted that bit about passing defense boosts, because while I was writing this he posted his comment.
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This weekend, if I can get a Non-english ditto, or Ralts in pokemon Black, I am going to start breeding for a Shiny Ralts to transfer over once Pokebank opens up. I always wanted a Shiny Gardevoir, and the Shiny Mega Gardevoir is beautiful. Plus I want to get Pixilated Hyper Voice, so this is a good opertunity.
That being said, Modest is the nature to go I assume. Any other moves I should be looking for in Gen V? This is the moveset I am thinking of using.
Hyper Voice
Shadow Ball
Calm Mind
Psyshock/Thunderbolt
252 in SpA, Rest in HP and SpD? or Speed?
That being said, Modest is the nature to go I assume. Any other moves I should be looking for in Gen V? This is the moveset I am thinking of using.
Hyper Voice
Shadow Ball
Calm Mind
Psyshock/Thunderbolt
252 in SpA, Rest in HP and SpD? or Speed?
Yeah, definitely feeling the Scolipede synergy to give Gardevoir some hit-taking abilities to keep her trucking against revenge-killers with her great type coverage.
Scolipede has become an excellent pivot on my team, pretty much giving my party constant speed boosts throughout a match, and given time to set up turns my offensive core into an unpredictable, devastating force. So Gardevoir is certainly a massive improvement over last gen. If I had to guess it would probably make UU, and RU at the absolute minimum. It's still strikingly frail even in Mega form, and it requires a lot of team support to pull off a sweep.
As far as weaknesses go, this particular combination has a few. BP Scolipede is countered hard by Talonflame, since unboosted priority Brave Bird will keep it from Baton Passing it's stat boosts out unless it's gotten a 3x Def boost. Sucker Punch users will do serious damage to Mega-Gardevoir without a lot of defense boosts. Priority Shadow Sneak can also be devastating from a Swords Danced Aegislash, though Gardevoir can usually 2HKO one with Shadow Ball.
(Yeah it's a double post, but I figured I'd input more information from my experience running Mega-voir and Scolipede together)
Scolipede has become an excellent pivot on my team, pretty much giving my party constant speed boosts throughout a match, and given time to set up turns my offensive core into an unpredictable, devastating force. So Gardevoir is certainly a massive improvement over last gen. If I had to guess it would probably make UU, and RU at the absolute minimum. It's still strikingly frail even in Mega form, and it requires a lot of team support to pull off a sweep.
As far as weaknesses go, this particular combination has a few. BP Scolipede is countered hard by Talonflame, since unboosted priority Brave Bird will keep it from Baton Passing it's stat boosts out unless it's gotten a 3x Def boost. Sucker Punch users will do serious damage to Mega-Gardevoir without a lot of defense boosts. Priority Shadow Sneak can also be devastating from a Swords Danced Aegislash, though Gardevoir can usually 2HKO one with Shadow Ball.
(Yeah it's a double post, but I figured I'd input more information from my experience running Mega-voir and Scolipede together)
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I've been doing really well on the pokemon global link with this Gardevoir set:
Gardevoir @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spd, 4 HP
Timid
-Moonblast
-Focus Blast
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
Granted, 6v6 is extremely different compared to 3v3, but I think this simplistic set actually has a fair amount of merit. The only other fairy type that isn't uber that comes close to matching Gardevoir's speed and power is Togekiss, but I don't think Togekiss has moonblast, so Gardevoir has an edge there. (Correct me if I'm wrong).
Gardevoir @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spd, 4 HP
Timid
-Moonblast
-Focus Blast
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
Granted, 6v6 is extremely different compared to 3v3, but I think this simplistic set actually has a fair amount of merit. The only other fairy type that isn't uber that comes close to matching Gardevoir's speed and power is Togekiss, but I don't think Togekiss has moonblast, so Gardevoir has an edge there. (Correct me if I'm wrong).
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