Pokémon Gardevoir

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]Anyway, about your set I find some flaws there. You ran Wish, WoW. Basically you are not fully committed to be a sweeper. You should leave the WoW to the other Pokemons. And you put Substitute as 1 of the options for the 1st slot. So you are telling me that you might run a set with only 1 attack move - Psyshock.

In my humble opinion, I think that CM + 3 offensives should work. It's either you run her defensively, or offensively since her HP and Defense are TER.RI.BLE. If you go for the mixed set with no held item since you go for Mega, you will waste too many turns without doing any damages to the opponent and they can switch in quite freely.
I never said she'd be a sweeper, at least not in that set. I'd use her as specially defensive/utility. She does have a mass sp.atk to make use of but I'd like to try using other sets on her as well. She only has 3 weakness to worry about and her special defense looks like it could be just as useful as her sp.atk. Of course, that set could always run regular Gard, with leftovers - except I'm not sure how well she'd go against things like Mega-Gengar and her speed is slightly less desirable pre-Mega.

Either way, I'll try both Mega-Gard defensively and regular Gard. It looks like a trade-off of slightly more bulk for better recovery so far.

I don't understand why you're discussing outspeeding Scizor. Bullet Punch has priority; you're going to take the hit before getting off the WoW. Am I missing something - are you implying a 3HKO even after the first unburned banded hit - or is the discussion moot?
The idea is, you should be able to predict when your opponent will bring Scizor in, even if you mispirect - you'll still likely burn and cripple something else, atleast in its longevity. That's when you Will-O-Wisp. If you can't get off WoW before Scizor's in, you'll be switching. If Gard is your last Poke, etc - it's just say it can cripple/survive Scizor, under the right conditions.

Even if you do get off the WoW though, you should still switch to something that can take out Scizor better. That's my thought process at least. Gard also is fast enough to out speed things other than Scizor, sure not much, but it can get neutral Dragonite if it doesn't switch. DNite can also hit Gard in its weaker defense.

The discussion might be moot, because regular Scizor about 1HKOs Gard anyway.
 
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The minimum Mega-Gard can run is 152 Sp.Def, not including switching into SR/Spikes:

252+ SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 152 SpD (custom): 288-338 (84.7 - 99.41%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Gard is basically hanging on for dear life of itself but the fact that it can hit back with Psyshock is nice.

252+ SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD (custom): 270-318 (79.41 - 93.52%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Even at Max Sp.Def Gard still can die to Modest Mega-Gengar + SR, so running it at the minimum Sp.Def looks possible worth it to put EVs elsewhere.
Guys, seriously, do not run Bold nature with Gardevoir. It's a waste of a nature as your boosting a base 65 defense by 10%. If you want a defensive Gardevoir, run Calm nature (boosting your much more supple base 115 sp.def) and put EV's into defense; it's much more efficient that way. Plus, now that Gardevoir isn't weak to pursuit anymore, you don't have to worry as much about switching out from a Scizor into your counter (whether it be Skarmory or Heatran etc.)
 
Guys, seriously, do not run Bold nature with Gardevoir. It's a waste of a nature as your boosting a base 65 defense by 10%. If you want a defensive Gardevoir, run Calm nature (boosting your much more supple base 115 sp.def) and put EV's into defense; it's much more efficient that way. Plus, now that Gardevoir isn't weak to pursuit anymore, you don't have to worry as much about switching out from a Scizor into your counter (whether it be Skarmory or Heatran etc.)
That's a good point, will change the set. I keep forgetting Gard lost its Dark weakness not Ghost, team-building I was looking for Dark-resistors *facepalm*. Derp, Gard can now switch for free! I'm not to bothered to fix the Calcs at the moment. Calm/Def is more effective, as you say, so we'll just assume Gard survives all the stuff it did before.
 
I've been running Offensive CM Mega-Gardevoir for a couple of hours on showdown and I must say that it works pretty well.

There are some opponents to look out for because they outspeed you such as Alakazam, Gengar and Scarfed Chandelure. With Thunderbolt, Moonblast and Psyshock you don't really scare of anything. You can comfortably switch in to Outrage Garchomp, Dragon Pulse Goodra and even Charizard X with some good predictions. I ran Gardevoir with Aromatherapy/Toxic/TWave Blissey and it works perfect. Blissey can switch into Alakazam, Gengar and Chandelure with ease and cripple them with Twave so that Gardevoir can sweep. Gardevoir also counters lots of Fighting-type Pokemons and let Blissey stall forever without any threats. Mega-Lucario/Toxicroak for example. These two are really perfect for each other.
 
currently i'm running
I've been running Offensive CM Mega-Gardevoir for a couple of hours on showdown and I must say that it works pretty well.

There are some opponents to look out for because they outspeed you such as Alakazam, Gengar and Scarfed Chandelure. With Thunderbolt, Moonblast and Psyshock you don't really scare of anything. You can comfortably switch in to Outrage Garchomp, Dragon Pulse Goodra and even Charizard X with some good predictions. I ran Gardevoir with Aromatherapy/Toxic/TWave Blissey and it works perfect. Blissey can switch into Alakazam, Gengar and Chandelure with ease and cripple them with Twave so that Gardevoir can sweep. Gardevoir also counters lots of Fighting-type Pokemons and let Blissey stall forever without any threats. Mega-Lucario/Toxicroak for example. These two are really perfect for each other.
that is until the aegislash comes out :'(

also according to gardevoir's lore she should be played as a support considering her huge array of support moves and her extremely deep move pool. and she is the embrace pokemon and her line consists of the emotion pokemon (kirlia) and the feeling pokemon (ralts) so i think we should definately try for a support set cuz that's what gardevoir was originally ment to be right guys?
 
currently i'm running


that is until the aegislash comes out :'(

also according to gardevoir's lore she should be played as a support considering her huge array of support moves and her extremely deep move pool. and she is the embrace pokemon and her line consists of the emotion pokemon (kirlia) and the feeling pokemon (ralts) so i think we should definately try for a support set cuz that's what gardevoir was originally ment to be right guys?
I don't have too much trouble dealing with Aegislash. And no, a base 165 SpA with Mega-form and good coverage moves are for a born-sweeper. But anyway, you can play her as a support if you really want. I don't really feel comfortable using her as a support since she is really fragile with bad HP and Defense. I love using pokemons like Blissey, Espeon, Umbreon, Klefki as supports since they can take hits pretty well, and they have unique abilities such as Nature Cure along with Aromatherapy/Twave/Toxic for Blissey, Magic Bounce for Espeon, Prankster for Klefki, and even Heal Bell/Wish/Mean Look from Umbreon.

With those supports, you can switch into lots of threats to cover up for your main sweepers. But Gardevoir cannot do the same since she is too fragile. So for me, she is a sweeper :)
 
I don't have too much trouble dealing with Aegislash. And no, a base 165 SpA with Mega-form and good coverage moves are for a born-sweeper. But anyway, you can play her as a support if you really want. I don't really feel comfortable using her as a support since she is really fragile with bad HP and Defense. I love using pokemons like Blissey, Espeon, Umbreon, Klefki as supports since they can take hits pretty well, and they have unique abilities such as Nature Cure along with Aromatherapy/Twave/Toxic for Blissey, Magic Bounce for Espeon, Prankster for Klefki, and even Heal Bell/Wish/Mean Look from Umbreon.

With those supports, you can switch into lots of threats to cover up for your main sweepers. But Gardevoir cannot do the same since she is too fragile. So for me, she is a sweeper :)
Yeah I also think that way..
What's your ev spread?
I was thinking about 252speed / 120 hp / and the rest to sp.atk?
Or should I just go pure spatk / speed?
 
Yeah I also think that way..
What's your ev spread?
I was thinking about 252speed / 120 hp / and the rest to sp.atk?
Or should I just go pure spatk / speed?
pure SpA and Spe. Try to work on your predictions and switchings. As far as my experiences go, after 10-15 matches you will know how to use her effectively.

And remember, 1 sweeper does not do anything. Build a 2-core lineup around Gardevoir. I recommend pure Support Blissey and Baton Pass Espeon.
 
pure SpA and Spe. Try to work on your predictions and switchings. As far as my experiences go, after 10-15 matches you will know how to use her effectively.

And remember, 1 sweeper does not do anything. Build a 2-core lineup around Gardevoir. I recommend pure Support Blissey and Baton Pass Espeon.
Wow thanks for the tips :D
 
Once pokebank is available, you can run hyper voice instead of moonblast on megagardevoir because of its ability pixilate. Normal type moves get a 30% boost and are changed to fairy. Essentially, you get around a 117 BP STAB move.

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SAtk | 6 SpD | 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Hyper Voice
- Focus Blast
- Psyshock
 

SJCrew

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After playing with her a bit more, I can say that Gardevoir is altogether a pretty cool niche Pokemon in OU. The key to using her is keeping an eye on what you can do with Trace; off the top of my head, I've copied Multiscale, Prankster, Natural Cure, Flash Fire, and used them all to foil the opposing Pokemon 1v1. Once she's taken the advantage with Trace, you can safely hand out KOs with M-Gardevoir behind a Sub. Aegislash and Scizor are the two biggest hindrances to her at the moment, as they both counter her pretty consummately.
 
After playing with her a bit more, I can say that Gardevoir is altogether a pretty cool niche Pokemon in OU. The key to using her is keeping an eye on what you can do with Trace; off the top of my head, I've copied Multiscale, Prankster, Natural Cure, Flash Fire, and used them all to foil the opposing Pokemon 1v1. Once she's taken the advantage with Trace, you can safely hand out KOs with M-Gardevoir behind a Sub. Aegislash and Scizor are the two biggest hindrances to her at the moment, as they both counter her pretty consummately.
This is a pretty cool situational use of not mega evolving, but there is a huge problem with it: you lose a ton of power by not mega evolving. Pixilate Hyper Voice is part of the reason Mega Gardevoir is so cool, and if you do not mega evolve, Hyper Voice is basically a worthless move. If you do not have Psychic (which you may not have considering its relatively redundant coverage), you will be stuck with no STAB as well as no item boost, making it very hard to kill something.

However, Trace has some usefulness in switching into say Heatran by tracing Flash Fire. Another nice thing about Trace is if you Trace some sort of speed boosting ability, you will be able to take advantage of that speed boosting ability while you mega evolve, since turn order is decided at the beginning of the turn.
 

SJCrew

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The most important part of Trace is that it can be useful for Substitute opportunities. It's really saved my skin in revenge killing Prankster users and finding switch-ins on Heatran when little else on the opposing team could allow Gardevoir to enter the battle unharmed.

Also, I do use both of Gardevoir's STABs. Psyshock offers a strong offensive alternative to anything Hyper Voice can't quite KO, such as the Charizard forms, miscellaneous Poison types trying to be Fairy checks (Tentacruel, Dragalge), specially defensive Pokemon, etc. I would make room for Shadow Ball, but trying to get past Aegislash with Mega Gardevoir is almost pointless IMO.
 
I currently want to play a paralize-flintch-confusion gardevoir. i'm not sure what he math comes out to be but it's got a huge chance of not letting your opponent do anything each turn assuming confusion is up.

gardevoir @ king's rock
timid / trace
252 SpD / 252 Spe / 4Spa
moonblast
thunderwave
confuse ray
wish

not sure if viable ._.
 
So i think i might possibly be the only person who dislikes the change to Psychic/Fairy. I might also be the only person who used Gardevoir in 5th Gen OU. The thing is, for whatever reason most of the things i used her to check are either part steel or part poison. She used to be a solid counter to Heatran as flash fire made her immune to his stab attack and she could taunt him to prevent him from using Stealth rock/Substitute/Torment/etc. and she could hit him back with a focus blast that may or may not 2HKO. The best heatran could do back is earth power which i dont remember but i think it is a 4HKO, and even if you miss all the focus blast's in the world you could always destiny bond. I dont quite remember but if 2 pokemon have magnet pull then do they cancel out? If not then gardevoir used to be a solid counter to magnezone. Another pokemon, toxicroak, could easily be outplayed by gardevoir. Before they would without a doubt always sucker punch being afraid of the 4x psychic, on which you destiny bond, then on the next turn if they sucker punch, the destiny bond will still be active and if they dont, the psychic will kill.

As for pursuit? Other than weavile, gardevoir is faster than the most common pursuit users and can either focus blast in the case of t-tar, or destiny bond in the case of scizor. Even if the scizor didnt pursuit, they would likely u-turn in which the destiny bond would still kill the scizor. The ironic thing though is that bullet punch was strong enough to OHKO gardevoir even before it became fairy. The only thing that made the strategy work is they didnt know it would kill. Now that Gardevoir is weak to steel... All scizors are going to bullet punch it. While it could just safely taunt ferrothorns before, it now gets one shot by gyro ball. Where before it could easily switch into venasaur, copy its chlorophyll, hit it with a psychic and if it lives, sponge a single hit and then finish it off, it now will get OHKO'd by sludge bomb (this one really matters because with timid gardevoir venasaurs DO sometimes live the psychic dependent on the venasaur's set. Which venasaur was one of the main reasons to use gardevoir previously because it was a straight up monster with chlorophyll: copy chlorophyll->kill venasaur->have insane speed with both taunt and destiny bond to abuse and a really powerful psychic.) Where it could abuse pokemon like amoongus' regenerator before, now it can be hit by sludge bomb (i think now that fairies are a thing, amoongus will be more popular as it deals with azumarill really well now because there isn't much of a reason for it to use ice punch now that it is fairy)

Dont get me wrong, gardevoir being fairy now DOES give it a lot of utility, but it just kind of nerfed the usefulness of its ability as a lot of the pokemon whose ability it can copy and take advantage of now have super effective moves on it.

Btw this only applies to regular gardevoir. I haven't used mega gardevoir so i have no idea how it fares in these situations (in fact mega gardevoir doesn't even have trace so yeah most of the situations i gave don't apply to it.) It being fairy is nice because now it can deal with latios/las fairly easy and yeah it is nice that weaviles now don't have crap on gardevoir, but its just kind of obnoxious because its ability isn't as abuse-able anymore. (im probably forgetting some other situations where it now gets screwed because of its fairy type but i think iv'e delivered my point :| )

Btw feel free to point out any pokemon that it hard counters now with its new fairy type because i can't really think of any.

EDIT: Jesus, that's a giant blob of text i wrote isn't it?
 
I was wondering if hyper beam is a viable option. I dont know if it has already had a mention yet though.
Pixilate + hyper beam = devastation possibly!
But i am not that experienced.
 
I was wondering if hyper beam is a viable option. I dont know if it has already had a mention yet though.
Pixilate + hyper beam = devastation possibly!
But i am not that experienced.
No it is not. It will never be viable, because of the simple fact that you can't really ever afford to give a free turn to the opponent like that.
 
I was wondering if hyper beam is a viable option. I dont know if it has already had a mention yet though.
Pixilate + hyper beam = devastation possibly!
But i am not that experienced.
Hyper Beam on anything is a really bad idea, whether or not it gets more power than Explosion. After you've knocked something out, you're giving a free opportunity for the opponent to do anything they want, including setting up DD's. Hyper Voice is powerful enough, anyway.

Shadow Ball's still useful for those disgusting M-Gengar though, if you can't make room for a Psychic attack. Aside from that, HP Fire is actually quite useful (despite the nerf) for catching Scizor, Ferrothorn, etc. on the switch.
 
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Shadow Ball's still useful for those disgusting M-Gengar though, if you can't make room for a Psychic attack. Aside from that, HP Fire is actually quite useful (despite the nerf) for catching Scizor, Ferrothorn, etc. on the switch.
There's no real reason to run shadow ball though. Fairy and Psychic both hit ghost neutrally, while the only ghost you want to try hitting is gengar, who goes down by a single psychic attack. The only ghosts in OU I can think of are Gengar (Psyshock/Psychic), Jellicent (Psyshock), Gourgeist/Trevenant (Psyshock/Moonblast) and Aegislash (Just switch. Really. You have no business staying in on this.)
 
Fairy and Ghost are a good attacking combo though, the only thing I can think of that resists both is Pyroar, so it could be considered if you want good neutral coverage without having to rely on Focus Miss.
 
There's no real reason to run shadow ball though. Fairy and Psychic both hit ghost neutrally, while the only ghost you want to try hitting is gengar, who goes down by a single psychic attack. The only ghosts in OU I can think of are Gengar (Psyshock/Psychic), Jellicent (Psyshock), Gourgeist/Trevenant (Psyshock/Moonblast) and Aegislash (Just switch. Really. You have no business staying in on this.)
Shadow Ball gives better coverage on two-attack sets with Substitute. On three-attack sets though, Psyshock and HP Fire / Focus Miss are definitely better.

Btw feel free to point out any pokemon that it hard counters now with its new fairy type because i can't really think of any.
It's a great counter to the Latis as noted before, since Gardevoir has a high Special Defence and resists Psyshock. M-Gardevoir can revenge slower dragons like M-Garchomp and Hydreigon.
 

Katakiri

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is a Researcher Alumnus
I'm really finding it hard to give Mega Gardevoir any sort of credit.

Mega Gardevoir is inferior to Gardevoir proper because it doesn't help it overcome any of Gardevoir's previous issues (cue the large neon sign blinking "Defense") and it loses Gardevoir's biggest asset to any team, Trace. As an avid user of Gardevoir in Gen 5 and continuing into Gen 6, I can say that Trace is the reason to use Gardevoir. Mega Gardevoir says "no" to the common Flash Fire, Volt Absorb, Natural Cure, Thick Fat, Prankster, Regenerator, Protean, Intimidate, Sturdy, Multiscale, Magnet Pull, etc., etc. and all for a slight power increase which is out-powered by Life Orb save Pixilate Hyper Voice, an insignificant Sp.Def boost, and a slight speed buff. In no world is that a good trade-off. Trace provides Gardevoir with so many switches into things like Heatran and Dragonite by turning their abilities against them that permanently disabling that for Mega Gardevoir just seems suicidal when a good Steel-type like Scizor or Aegislash can force out Gardevoir with ease and then have it struggle to switch in without Trace.

Gardevoir out-classes Mega Gardevoir overall. Speed and Hyper Voice are the only reasons to use it and they are poor reasons at that. Base 80 Speed is not bad at all, Expert Belt or Life Orb gives Gardevoir's coverage options more power, and Lefties gives Gardevoir the staying-power it needs to be a team player.

Once lower tiers start forming, Mega Gardevoir will become progressively more appealing the lower it goes as the abilities become progressively less worth Tracing and base 100 speed becomes more desirable. But as far as OU and possibly UU when it arrives, steer clear of Mega Gardevoir as it does more harm than good for Gardevoir.
 

SJCrew

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You say 80 base speed is still good, but it's not. It's very bad for an offensive Pokemon with no physical bulk. Being that slow and fragile with no priority attacks is a death sentence in OU. Gardevoir is supposed to use her opponents' abilities to take the initiative in battle, not rely on them to become the offensive/defensive force she is not. If you are that adamant on using Trace, you may as well look into Porygon2, who can actually switch into and threaten many of the things that carry those amazing abilities. Gardevoir can hardly switch into anything without incurring severe risk.

At the same time, those points you listed are also what make Mega Gardevoir so useful: you likely only get one chance to use a game-changing ability, so you may as well use it as normal Gardevoir holding Gardevoirite. If that ability is no longer useful or never in play, you can just cut to the brasstacks and transform in to Death wearing a ballgown. Normal Gardevoir with Life Orb or any other boosting item is unrealistic, as no competent player would put that on a serious team.
 

Typhlito

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Depending on how pokemon like lanturn are going to be tiered I know a set that would be useful. It was pretty good for ru in gen 5 so it might do well in gen 6 too. It was for a rain dance team that also supports the rest of the team while its trace helps it check things like lanturn.

Gardevoir @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 Spe / 252 SAtk / 252 hp
Modest Nature
- Rain Dance
- Thunder bolt
- Healing Wish
- Psyshock / shadow ball
 
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