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Metagame Gen V Balanced Hackmons

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by verbatim, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Flapper the Zubat = best scramblemon
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    I'm in school so my Pokemon thoughts are a bit muddled, but physical Contrary users are horrible. None of them (except... Conkeldurr? Terrakion?) get STAB on their Attack boosting move, while there are a multitude of Special Attack lowering moves (Draco Meteor, Leaf Storm, Overheat, Psycho Boost, might be missing one) and your Contrary user is incredibly likely to get STAB on one of them. Physical Contrary is too slow and doesn't have enough power.
  2. The Cicada

    The Cicada

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    Who should I use to break walls and opposing weather then?
  3. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Flapper the Zubat = best scramblemon
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    Whatever you can think of; just not a physical Contrary user.

    Anyway, now that I'm out of school I can think a bit more about your team. Honestly, there's so many things it's missing that I can't see it being very viable unless you have a VERY SPECIFIC gameplan (see Great Sage's team for more information on this...). Dry Skin is cool, I'll give you that, but is 12% recovery worth losing the ability to bounce back hazards and Spore with Magic Bounce? What about being able to Substitute before your opponent can react - or stopping boosting sweepers via Taunt - with Prankster? What about being able to punch right through Magic Bounce and Sturdy Shedinja with Mold Breaker? You have pretty much nothing to stop opposing Contrary sweepers if they get a V-Create boost - Registeel can stop them for a while, but it's weak to Nature Power, one of the most common offensive moves in BH. On to suggestions, I guess.

    As I said, boosting sweepers are a big problem with this team - especially if they resist Water and are boosting their Speed; as this way Kyogre has no hope of revenging them. Many, such as Kyurem-B, even carry Close Combat. To combat this, I suggest replacing Giratina with a Prankster Rhydon. Rhydon is almost a full stop to boosting sweepers, having the highest physical defense in the game and pretty good Special defense with Eviolite.

    All of your sweepers are extremely weak to Imposter Blissey and over-reliant on having a Substitute passed to them. An easy way to (somewhat) remedy this would be to give them Substitute. As it stands, Kyogre's moveset needs an overhaul anyway - Water/Water/Psychic is just bad coverage. I would suggest removing Surf for Hydro Pump, Stored Power for Spacial Rend, and Water Spout for Substitute. That solves the problem of Kyogre - only Ferrothorn resists that combination, but Escavalier outclasses it 1000x in Balanced Hackmons. Now for Thundurus-T. STAB Thunder and Hurricane are pretty great in theory, but Balanced Hackmons is filled to the brim with Electric resists. I would like to suggest removing Thundurus-T entirely and replacing it with a Rayquaza. Simply change the Pokemon and replace Thunder with Aura Sphere. Replacing the Leftovers with a Life Orb would be an excellent option as well, as it gives Rayquaza a bit more power.

    But OH SHIT. This makes it incredibly hard to take it down if Chansey or Blissey copy it! Here is the final suggestion - change Palkia to a Choice Band Kyurem-B. It might sound weird, but Kyurem-B appreciates the added insurance against Fire. It can use the incredible power it has to demolish a lot of things.

    I'm not sure what to replace Zekrom with, to be honest, since there aren't any Contrary abusers that really like Rain. Escavalier might be worth using, although I don't think you gain much from it (besides to defeat the now-FIXED Assist Kyurem-B teams).

    Registeel would much prefer Magic Bounce to Dry Skin and Recover over Magic Coat. Being able to intrinsically reflect status moves is way better than having to predict around then (this is coming from the guy who used three Magic Coats and a Magic Bounce Pokemon on my best team).

    Here are the final sets that I've changed. If you feel like I've changed too much or you disagree with my changes, don't be afraid to bring it up - I'm famously good at missing things... I have no issue with Giratina though, might as well have Dry Skin somewhere :)
    Sets (open)
    Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Outrage
    - Close Combat
    - Aqua Tail / Extremespeed

    Rayquaza @ Life Orb
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (so Ice Shard deals more damage)
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Quiver Dance
    - Hurricane
    - Aura Sphere
    - Rest

    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Tail Glow
    - Hydro Pump
    - Spacial Rend

    Registeel @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Recover
    - Protect
    - Perish Song
    - Seismic Toss

    Rhydon @ Eviolite
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Nature Power
    - Heart Swap
    - Magic Coat / Recover
    - Spore / Baton Pass


    If I sounded angry or insulting I'm sorry, tell me and I'll make a more personal apology or something.
  4. The Cicada

    The Cicada

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    I see. That leaves me with 5 pokemon tho. I'm assuming I should keep Zekrom?
  5. Imanalt

    Imanalt WHY BUNNELBY DO HAVE FUR?
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    He said he wasnt sure what to replace zekrom with, personally id go with the old fashioned "when in doubt, slap on an imposter"

    Chansey @eviolite
    Imposter
    bold nature
    -taunt
    -perish song
    -volt switch
    -aromatherapy
  6. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Flapper the Zubat = best scramblemon
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    I guess you could try a Shift Gear set or something; its only real advantage over Kyurem-B is the lack of Ice (which is really good - neutral to SR and resistant to Escavalier's Gyro Ball). You could replace it with a different Palkia or another Kyurem-B, or try playing it to its strengths.

    EDIT: Imanalt has a point.
  7. The Cicada

    The Cicada

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    Zekroms been proving an amazing wall breaker and sun counter as it is tho.

    Also, earlier you mentioned physical contrary being bad. Blaziken and Infernape can use STAB V-Create and SuperPower
  8. ThePROlificHipster

    ThePROlificHipster

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    I'm surprised Contrary isn't banned. It's easily the most abused ability:

    Slaking @ Expert Belt
    Jolly Nature
    ~ Superpower
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Sucker Punch
    ~ Pursuit

    This set can easily sweep any team.
  9. SimicCombine

    SimicCombine

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    Prankster Groudon says "Hi." As does Chansey, Blissey, and UnawareMon of choice.
  10. akela

    akela

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    Prankster Simple Beam says nope.
  11. 725roy

    725roy

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    Prankster Simple Beam XD. Never actually thought of using that. It could quite possibly need a lot of things that are often used, such as anything With Contrary and Unaware.
  12. Level 51

    Level 51 getting worse at mons day by day
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    It doesn't even have to be any of these; any early bulky ghost-type switch-in (e.g. Giratina) will own it. +1 Sucker Punch isn't doing much btw :/
  13. Gerard

    Gerard

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    The only ghost faster than Slaking (and that it's actually used) is Gengar, which will be more often than not using Skill Swap Normalize to you so Sucker Punch is useless there too in most cases, you're probably better with something more reliable like Crunch
  14. urdrakonis

    urdrakonis

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    +6 Slaking OHKOs max Def Giratina-A with Crunch, btw. Oh, and using Slaking without Espeed is like using Kyogre without a water STAB. +2 priority means it doesn't care about Prankster abusers.

    Belly Drum Slaking gets over everything except:
    - Imposter Bliss/Chans
    - Unaware mons
    - Normalise Gengar
    - gimmicky crap like sturdy normal gem slaking with explosion, provided no hazards are up

    Even Eviolite Rhydon can't take it. KO'd by Drain Punch after prior damage from Espseed.

    Oh yeah, the set also doesn't require any ability or item, so he can run magic guard / magic bounce etc.
  15. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Flapper the Zubat = best scramblemon
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    Eviolite Rhydon will more often than not use Heart Swap before you hit it with Drain Punch, since about 36% of Rhydon run Prankster. 51% run Sand Stream, but tbh I've never seen one and it's better off with Prankster.
  16. Imanalt

    Imanalt WHY BUNNELBY DO HAVE FUR?
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    Eviolite rhydon is actually the best counter to belly drum slaking. It uses heart swap turn 1 and you either do a bit with espeed or hit it unboosted with your coverage move, in which case no matter what you run, you cant ko (power whip does ~90% max), then ir proceeds to wreck you with +6 attack priority eqs
  17. Joim

    Joim All promises become a lie, all that's bening corrups in time
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    I think that the best Slaking is Illusion Belly Drum, Espeed, Shadow Sneak and Recover with Sitrus Berry. If you manage to BD, it's difficult to stop you.
  18. Cobraroll

    Cobraroll
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    ^With Imposter, you won't be Belly Drumming very often...
  19. Joim

    Joim All promises become a lie, all that's bening corrups in time
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    Sorry, dyslexia moment, I meant Illusion.
  20. TheCommadore

    TheCommadore

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    To counter non-scrappy slacking i have been using this set:

    Giratina @ Leftovers
    Prankster
    Jolly Nature
    ~ Recover
    ~ Heart Swap
    ~ Destiny Bond
    ~ Dragon Tail

    You can switch into slacking with complete safety, steal his belly drum, and phaze him away. Scrappy slacking can screw you over but it isn't that common compared to illusion slacking. Almost any physically defensive pokemon that resists Espeed such as, escavalier, skarm, rhydon, regirock/steel, or any of the psychic/steel types, can run a similar set and beat slacking. One benefit of using giratina as a slacking counter is that gira is a good switch in to both slacking and the shedinja it so often mimics.
  21. Gerard

    Gerard

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    Uncommon as it may be Aqua Jet Belly Drum Slaking is able to KO Rhydon before the Heart Swap (It's also useful to take down stuff such as Gengar so it's not as gimmicky as it may seem) though you lose a coverage move
  22. Imanalt

    Imanalt WHY BUNNELBY DO HAVE FUR?
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    If slaking isnt adamant (adamant slakimg can be outrun by +spe gira) or rhydon is +def, its actually only about a 50/50 to ohko (in short, fuck everything, rhydon strongth)
  23. KuKumber

    KuKumber

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    Since I no longer use it, but like it really much here's a killer set:
    [​IMG]
    Lugia @ Leftovers
    Serene Grace
    Timid
    -Sacred Fire
    -Air Slash
    -Thunder/Tailwind
    -Substitute

    For maximum serene grace abuse, I took lugia for the flying stab and being generally bulky.
    The strategy is: you burn their pokemon with 100% sacred fire, then air slash+burn damage combo quickly kills the opponent. 60% flinch hax is really annoying and I've seen many people rage from it.
    Timid to ensure it outspeeds most of the pokemon save for Deo-S and Mewtwo, and substitute can prevent status from non-prankster pokes and Imposter chansey killing you with the same set, more bulk.
    The third move is pretty much a filler: thunder can work for rain teams and make Lugia outspeed some threats, finishing them with air slash. Tailwind does the same, but can support your team, doesn't prevent burn and only works for 4 turns :\ . Roost could work in that slot, but you have pretty much free leftovers recovery with flinches.
    I don't even know what can beat this set, and if you baton pass 4x spa to it from contrary/simple user it will 2hko most defensive pokemons and 4hko rhydon in sandstorm. I hope it will get more popular so people start using abilities like shield dust, which are really overlooked I believe.
    Also yay first post
  24. TheCommadore

    TheCommadore

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    That is a very interesting set. I would recommend using roost over either thunder or sacred fire as it will make sure you can not only beat chansey switchins, but also come out of the exchange with a sub intact and at full or near full health. That lugia could work as a special wall that beats sweepers through flinches much as SpDef jirachi does in OU, and I am excited to try it out later today.
  25. urdrakonis

    urdrakonis

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    Ah, I knew I had forgotten something! +6 Aqua Jet with life orb is a guaranteed OHKO, so it can be a viable option when Rhydon's usage catches up.

    But yeah, BD Slaking is an instant win against hyper offensive teams lacking imposters.

    I'm not too keen on these sorts of sets. I've found that OU strategies don't work well in BH. KyuW is pretty much the BH equivalent of Special Landorus, yet it is almost completely outclassed in this metagame (it can get passed unaware mons, though).

    I think the real problem this set has is that it is too weak (one of Jirachi's problems too). Neither Sacred Fire nor Air Slash are strong enough to break Mewtwo's subs. Ho-oh walls this set even harder, and it can't even be burned.

    You've also overestimated Lugia's bulk:
    Life Orb 252+ Kyurem-B Icicle Spear vs. 252/252 Lugia = 23-28% per hit, OHKO with Skill Link
    +2 252 Mewtwo Ice Beam vs. [] = Guarantedd 2HKO
    +2 252 Ho-oh Flare Blitz vs. [] = Guaranteed 2HKO

    And anything that gets +4 boosts passed to it will be threatening.

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