Gen V Balanced Hackmons

[Imanalt]

So since rhydon is usually better than groudon at its current flagship set, what other sets have people had success with? I ran a subShellsmash set with magic bounce a long time ago that was great at setting up on giratina, but had issues with imposters

 

[T3h_Glurak]

How does Soul Dew exactly work? Is it a boost, which can be doubled with simple? If yes, that would be awesome :>

Still trying to get more into BH, maybe I will read the rules for a Team and build one!

 

[Toraen]

So since rhydon is usually better than groudon at its current flagship set, what other sets have people had success with? I ran a subShellsmash set with magic bounce a long time ago that was great at setting up on giratina, but had issues with imposters

I remember Trickband being a fairly effective prankster Groudon. It gave the option of either firing off +1 nature powers or crippling walls (especially magic bouncers predicting a Spore). It was never a good counter/check for Belly drummers though since they tend to set up early in a match. It didn't have to be the counter for them if you had Unaware at your disposal though.

How does Soul Dew exactly work? Is it a boost, which can be doubled with simple? If yes, that would be awesome :>

Still trying to get more into BH, maybe I will read the rules for a Team and build one!

No, Soul Dew/Eviolite/Choice Items do not apply boosts in that manner. They're equivalent to a 1 stage boost in the relevant stat(s), but do not count as stat stage boosts and thus are unaffected by Simple.

 

[T3h_Glurak]

No, Soul Dew/Eviolite/Choice Items do not apply boosts in that manner. They're equivalent to a 1 stage boost in the relevant stat(s), but do not count as stat stage boosts and thus are unaffected by Simple.

Ah, okay. Just like I thought ^^
Thanks!

 

[Vincent]

Hi there, i'm starting at BH and it's really nice the variety of this metagame, i'm really liking it and i'd like you people help me out with my first team, it's around Sturdy Shedinja:

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Giratina @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Magic Coat
- Spore
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

Magic Coat on the first round to activate Poison Heal before i get Spored, Spore on the second round to eliminate one enemy, Taunt on the third for make unable to its switch to set up boosts or hazards, and SR on the fourth to get the sweep started.

With Poison Heal activated it acts as my status absorber, saving my Shedinja's life from Spore, Toxic and such.

Shedinja @ Lum Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Endeavor
- ExtremeSpeed
- Shadow Force
- Shell Smash

Basic Sturdy Shedinja with Endeavor + Priority, except that i choose Shadow Force + Shell Smash instead of Magic Coat, Spore or something because i want to get rid of those ghosts (mainly Giratina) that are immune to my Endeavor.

Reshiram @ Life Orb
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Close Combat
- Draco Meteor
- V-create
- Volt Tackle

I needed someway of get the weather clear for my Shedinja survive, since i have little experience in BH the only options i saw were Drizzle Kyogre or Palkia, or Drought Ho-Oh or Reshiram, then i ended up choosing Resh.

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Morning Sun
- V-create

It abuses the Sun AND completely ignores things like Leech Seed which could destroy Shedinja.

Arceus @ Leftovers
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Close Combat
- ExtremeSpeed
- Rapid Spin

I needed a Scrappy Spinner to guarantee my Shedinja's life against hazards, it ended up that i created a sweeper lol, so now my team had covered all of my Shedinja's weakness:

1)Giratina takes care of Status;
2)Reshiram cleans out Hail and Sandstorm;
3)Ho-Oh laughs of Leech Seed and other ways of indirect damage;
4)Arceus spins hazards even through Ghosts.

Kyurem-White @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Blizzard
- Close Combat
- Dragon Pulse
- V-create

My Revenge Killer and at the same time my Shedinja Killer lol, if i made a team around Shedinja believing in its power then i should take my own precautions against opponent's Shedinja.

 

[verbatim]

Try switching Kyurem-W to a pokemon of your choice with Mold Breaker. That way you can use your sixth mon against opposing Shedinjas without threatening your own.

 

[Vincent]

And what about my Giratina and my Reshiram?

I don't think Reshiram should be an all-out attacker, and don't think so that Giratina should use Taunt being so slow without Prankster, but i am not sure about what to do.

And thanks for the Kyurem advice, but i just need to switch in Shedinja to kill it, a Mold Breaker would need to switch in and then attack, in this meantime it could be get hit by Endeavor. And after all, i do like Snow Warning Kyurem-W's flavor.

EDIT: I don't know why i said that Mold Breaker has a risk from being hit by Endeavor since Kyurem has it too lol, but the rest is still valid.

 

[verbatim]

The thing is, if your opponent plays cautiously with Shedinja, you effectively have one pokemon that you cannot use in any situation whatsoever. By switching Kyurem out for something with Mold Breaker, your sixth slot can do more than JUST kill opposing Shedinja while leaving yours alive provided you still have both your spinner and your other weather setter.

 

[Vincent]

That's true, now i'm inclined to change to a Ghost with Mold Breaker, so i can switch into Endeavor without problem and kill it back, and if the opponent utilizes my tactic of Shadow Force i just switch to Arceus until he run out of PP lol

Now i'm thinking about put Magic Guard over Poison Heal on Giratina, so i would be immune to Leech Seed too, but the loss of Passive Recovery isn't nice.

I thought too about put Toxic Orb over Life Orb on Ho-Oh, so it wouldn't worry with Spore, but the loss of power is an asshole, i just like so much of Magic Guard nullifying the recoil from Brave Bird + Life Orb. Btw, Brave Bird is to kill those Bug/Steel Flash Fire.

I already changed Arceus item to Lum Berry, and i think to do the same with Reshiram, and i want to change something in Giratina's and Reshiram's movesets too, but i don't know what.

Suggestions?

 

[Kirbyofthestars]

Recently, I've gotten into Balanced Hackmons, and have greatly enjoyed it (despite not being able to use Huge Power Kyurem-B or Shadow Tag Dialga :P). However, I've noticed a lot of people who use teams consisting of a single species, such as a full team (I assume, since the opponent forfeited before the battle concluded) of Deoxys-A, a full team of Ditto, and a full (I assume) team of Shuckle (all of them, I have encountered, for example); they seem to be meant merely to annoy the opponent (Imposter Blissey, Contrary Rayquaza, and Dialga with Sleep Talk often handle them well, though, depending on their techniques) and/or easily "rack up" wins.

Although I have not fought many battles yet (about 12 total), I've encountered such teams rather frequently (I'd estimate that three of my four losses are due to them, if my memory serves me well, and there are more I've faced). I don't want to be rude and point out specific names, but is there anything that can (or, rather, should, if these teams are, in fact, breaking the rules) be done about such teams using pseudo or "troll" strategies?

 

[MJB]

Recently, I've gotten into Balanced Hackmons, and have greatly enjoyed it (despite not being able to use Huge Power Kyurem-B or Shadow Tag Dialga :P). However, I've noticed a lot of people who use teams consisting of a single species, such as a full team (I assume, since the opponent forfeited before the battle concluded) of Deoxys-A, a full team of Ditto, and a full (I assume) team of Shuckle (all of them, I have encountered, for example); they seem to be meant merely to annoy the opponent (Imposter Blissey, Contrary Rayquaza, and Dialga with Sleep Talk often handle them well, though, depending on their techniques) and/or easily "rack up" wins.

Although I have not fought many battles yet (about 12 total), I've encountered such teams rather frequently (I'd estimate that three of my four losses are due to them, if my memory serves me well, and there are more I've faced). I don't want to be rude and point out specific names, but is there anything that can (or, rather, should, if these teams are, in fact, breaking the rules) be done about such teams using pseudo or "troll" strategies?

These teams aren't breaking any rules and for the most part fairly easy to beat. A well made team that does not follow this strategy will almost always win so I dont see a problem tbh.

 

[Sewa]

Recently, I've gotten into Balanced Hackmons, and have greatly enjoyed it (despite not being able to use Huge Power Kyurem-B or Shadow Tag Dialga :P). However, I've noticed a lot of people who use teams consisting of a single species, such as a full team (I assume, since the opponent forfeited before the battle concluded) of Deoxys-A, a full team of Ditto, and a full (I assume) team of Shuckle (all of them, I have encountered, for example); they seem to be meant merely to annoy the opponent (Imposter Blissey, Contrary Rayquaza, and Dialga with Sleep Talk often handle them well, though, depending on their techniques) and/or easily "rack up" wins.

Although I have not fought many battles yet (about 12 total), I've encountered such teams rather frequently (I'd estimate that three of my four losses are due to them, if my memory serves me well, and there are more I've faced). I don't want to be rude and point out specific names, but is there anything that can (or, rather, should, if these teams are, in fact, breaking the rules) be done about such teams using pseudo or "troll" strategies?

Eheh, You're lucky you can no more encounter a team of 4-5 prankster assist kyurem-b

 

[urdrakonis]

Magic Guard users handle most of these 'troll' teams quite well.

Seiously, even though I haven't been playing much these days, Magic Guard is one of the best abilities available. Back when I played a lot more, I didn't see it much. People seemed to brush it aside in favour of Magic Bounce and Prankster. It's really funny when they try and toxic / leech seed / copycat + roar you.

Poison heal was another relatively underrated ability. Got passed pesky spore abuse and made bulky mons even more bulky. I reckon it works better on offensive mons rather than stallers and walls, because let's face it, everything that doesn't have unaware is frail as hell. Even Gira-A gets nailed if you try and send it in on something with a few boosts.

 

[Butterlegs]

So, I've been in the BH metagame for a while, lurking this topic and so on, so forth. And I just wanted some feedback on my Hail team. I do have a few others I might ask for feedback for too, but that'll be at a later date.

Hide

PMS (Deoxys-Speed) @ BrightPowder
Trait: Moody
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Stored Power
- Protect

I use this set because, most people expect a Mold Breaker/Prankster Deoxys-S, so when they go for the Magic Coat or Spore, I sub, and set-up to wait for my boosts to stack.

Something Wrong? (Gengar) (M) @ Spooky Plate
Trait: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Skill Swap
- Judgment
- Shell Smash
- Aura Sphere

This set has destroyed so many teams it's not even funny. I sorta snatched this from here but that's not a problem is it? Anyways - Just skill swap, Smash and proceed to destroy.

Steadfast (Articuno) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Heart Swap
- Blizzard
- Baton Pass

I couldn't think of a better/bulkier poke to have as my set-up for hail. Hail will basically break most sturdy users (I'm looking at you Shedinja ._.), and can set-up and pass that to my other pokes.

Myriad (Kyurem-White) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Mild Nature
- Blizzard
- ExtremeSpeed
- Tail Glow
- Recover

This is my special sweeper, pretty self-explanatory.

Harem (Kyurem-Black) @ Life Orb
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- ExtremeSpeed
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash

This is a pretty amazing set I believe, it can kill sturdy users that aren't Shedinja, but hail would probably kill him first. And it can usually still take down a few pokes before it goes down.

Accuracy? (Mewtwo) @ Lum Berry
Trait: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Zap Cannon
- DynamicPunch
- Inferno
- Psycho Boost

Pretty self explanatory. Used to be Deoxys-A until I decided its squishyness was bad.

 

[Kirbyofthestars]

So, I've been in the BH metagame for a while, lurking this topic and so on, so forth. And I just wanted some feedback on my Hail team. I do have a few others I might ask for feedback for too, but that'll be at a later date.

Hide

PMS (Deoxys-Speed) @ BrightPowder
Trait: Moody
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Stored Power
- Protect

I use this set because, most people expect a Mold Breaker/Prankster Deoxys-S, so when they go for the Magic Coat or Spore, I sub, and set-up to wait for my boosts to stack.

Accuracy? (Mewtwo) @ Lum Berry
Trait: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Zap Cannon
- DynamicPunch
- Inferno
- Psycho Boost

Pretty self explanatory. Used to be Deoxys-A until I decided its squishyness was bad.

The only suggestions I have are on these two in particular; the Deoxys-Speed is vulnerable to Spore, allowing for the setup of entry hazards, or decimation from another sweeper (for example, Contrary Rayquaza, which, once setup, can sweep through teams before they have time to attack in most situations). You may want to have Baton Pass on it so you can pass the Moody boosts over.

Also, although No Guard guarantees accuracy, as I said before, Contrary Rayquaza or Latios with a few speed boosts (from V-Create) can doubtlessly have enough firepower to OHKO or 2HKO it, since a hit from Draco Meteor is guarenteed (or Deoxys-A, even, since it is still faster, and can have Psycho Boost itself).

The Gengar is vulnerable to a "bait-and-switch" tactic which could leave you worse off than before, but since most opponents won't be expecting it, there isn't any way you could improve it.

 

[Arkeis]

So, I've been in the BH metagame for a while, lurking this topic and so on, so forth. And I just wanted some feedback on my Hail team. I do have a few others I might ask for feedback for too, but that'll be at a later date.

Hide

PMS (Deoxys-Speed) @ BrightPowder
Trait: Moody
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Stored Power
- Protect

I use this set because, most people expect a Mold Breaker/Prankster Deoxys-S, so when they go for the Magic Coat or Spore, I sub, and set-up to wait for my boosts to stack.

Something Wrong? (Gengar) (M) @ Spooky Plate
Trait: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Skill Swap
- Judgment
- Shell Smash
- Aura Sphere

This set has destroyed so many teams it's not even funny. I sorta snatched this from here but that's not a problem is it? Anyways - Just skill swap, Smash and proceed to destroy.

Steadfast (Articuno) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Heart Swap
- Blizzard
- Baton Pass

I couldn't think of a better/bulkier poke to have as my set-up for hail. Hail will basically break most sturdy users (I'm looking at you Shedinja ._.), and can set-up and pass that to my other pokes.

Myriad (Kyurem-White) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Mild Nature
- Blizzard
- ExtremeSpeed
- Tail Glow
- Recover

This is my special sweeper, pretty self-explanatory.

Harem (Kyurem-Black) @ Life Orb
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- ExtremeSpeed
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash

This is a pretty amazing set I believe, it can kill sturdy users that aren't Shedinja, but hail would probably kill him first. And it can usually still take down a few pokes before it goes down.

Accuracy? (Mewtwo) @ Lum Berry
Trait: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Zap Cannon
- DynamicPunch
- Inferno
- Psycho Boost

Pretty self explanatory. Used to be Deoxys-A until I decided its squishyness was bad.

Don't be so reliant on stat-up boosts, especially in such an unreliable way like Moody. Prankster Heart Swap or Unaware Heart Swap will just make your efforts useless. Also Brightpowder is a bad item choice in general.

Gengar is really overrated. A player who knows the BH metagame well can tell what's coming. They'll let one of their Pokemon get Skill Swapped and then switch the next turn and stop you with Prankster Rhydon/Groudon or just Prankster Spore in general. I would try a Prankster Gengar with Taunt over Skill Swap. This catches Gengar's counters by surprise and prevents any attempts at using Prankster Spore/Destiny Bond/Heart Swap/Nature Power.

Since you have a couple of Stealth Rock weak members, I would try to fit a Rapid Spinner somewhere.

 

[ChaosAkita]

Can someone explain to me why Nature Power is used instead of Earthquake in BH?

 

[Chester]

Can someone explain to me why Nature Power is used instead of Earthquake in BH?

It works the same, but with more PP.

 

[Zarel]

Can someone explain to me why Nature Power is used instead of Earthquake in BH?

Advantages of Earthquake:
- Not affected by Taunt

Advantages of Nature Power:
- Affected by Prankster
- Twice as much PP

Prankster Nature Power is its main draw (and makes it the strongest priority attack in BH).

 

[Gerard]

It also ignores Sucker Punch

 

[tehy]

I'm not a BH expert by any means kirby, but the problem that strikes me here is that you have no rapid spinner, and what seems to be your lead basically invites SR setup, with no Magic Bouncers on the team. And not only do you have a pokemon quadweak to SR, but one that sets up your weather. Granted, only Kyurem-W only really relies on it, but his only other attacking option is Extremespeed, so his main attacking move's got a 70% chance-never a good idea. And did i mention you've got another SR weak pokemon?

So basically like Arkeis said, try to fit in a Rapid Spin user. Or at least lead off with something that can prevent SR going up with some frequency.

And going from there, what's up with your Kyu-W set? It's got Magic Guard and Focus Sash, and while I get that Recover is probably there to restore the Sash and such, Kyu-W can only Recover on free turns that it should be using to boost in any case-despite its bulk, its defensive typing means plenty of stuff can hit it SE, so it shouldn't be healing mid-sweep. As for Extremespeed, it's not THAT strong, and there's plenty of non-frail stuff fast and strong enough to revenge Kyu-W. Why not invest in at least one other special move, and possibly two? (And by the way, how is that set self-explanatory?) Also, instead of using Magic Guard and Focus Sash, how about just using Substitute and some other ability? (Magic Bounce would be helpful for this team)

As a final note, even though Deoxys-S appreciates the occasional Brightpowder-induced miss, each miss gives it 2 more turns of stalling. Leftovers gives it 6 more turns of stalling (4, if you can't make a sub at 25%), which basically means you'd need to get 3 misses to even the score. I don't think you'll be getting much HP back from Leech seed, since just about any legitimate attacker should be able to OHKO Deoxys-S without much trouble. (Or they'll just set heavy hazards/taunt.)

Edit: Apparently his, how did i miss that?

 

[Kirbyofthestars]

I'm not a BH expert by any means kirby, but the problem that strikes me here is that you have no rapid spinner, and what seems to be your lead basically invites SR setup, with no Magic Bouncers on the team. And not only do you have a pokemon quadweak to SR, but one that sets up your weather. Granted, only Kyurem-W only really relies on it, but his only other attacking option is Extremespeed, so his main attacking move's got a 70% chance-never a good idea. And did i mention you've got another SR weak pokemon?

Are you talking about my team or Butterlegs's (I presume the latter)?

 

[JCM.]

I've been using a pretty broken strategy which is based around BP'ing Aqua Ring + Ingrain to Shuckle, who has Leppa Berry + Harvest. I spam Substitute + Protect, and I can BP to Giratina for Sand Stream when I need the extra SDef boost. It also beats Sturdy Shedinja. It makes games really long, but your opponent usually forfeits.

 

[Arcticblast]

You can thank Great Sage for coming up with that. It is HELL to face in battle, especially since there's basically nothing you can do about it. Even Adamant Choice Band Skill Link Slaking will struggle against those Shuckles - Bold Shuckle takes 20% maximum from one Rock Blast hit.

 

[verbatim]

One word


Encore.