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General Doubles Metagame Thread

Discussion in 'BW Doubles' started by Pocket, Dec 24, 2012.

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  1. Sewa

    Sewa

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    Same goes for Manaphy: how can something with +3 blizzard and STAB surf and 100/100/100 defenses not be in top 100?
    The problem with Darkrai is its reliance on low-accurate Hypnosis.

    Also, Volcarona finally gets the love it deserves in a meta where Stealth Rock is so rare.
  2. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    311
    Acrobatics in Aerodactyl would be heaven sent, but you can try the odd ball Power Herb/Sky Attack. I cannot say I fully recommend it on this format because you can pull it off better in VGC where matches are shorter and the potential OHKO from Sky Attack comes much more handy. Of course Aerodactyl doesn't stay alive that long either. Sad thing is, it probably doesn't OHKO Hitmontop after Intimidate.
  3. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
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    Deo-A with follow me/fakeout support essentially makes it a 6 turn game as it KOs everything one-by-one. Yea, your support mon could go down, they could have a faster fakeout or they could use spread moves, but Deo-A beasts.
    I've actually used support Genesect to some success with screens, t wave and normal gem explosion. Speaking of which, explosion is incredibly underrated.
    Shaymin-S needs to be out at the right times. It isn't like Cresselia or Suicune who just sits there the whole match and tanks. It can come in after some paralysis has been set up to paraflinch or it can come in on water and/or ground types and DESTROY.
    Sewa, Darkrai doesn't have to use Hypnosis. I've used Nasty Plot+Focus Blast+Dark Pulse+Snarl. When partnered with an intimidater, Darkrai is almost like a bulky sweeper. This is only one that can completely run through teams with Fake Out/Follow Me support.

    Just throwing out my opinions on these Pokemon that people find to be 'underwhelimg'. They all can perform very well, they just come in and spam attacks without regard like a lot of the highly used ones.

    Oh also, I kind of want to see the percentage of Tyranitar that use Protect. That has gotten me a lot of free turns when they start aiming Close Combats and Hydro Pumps at your weather starter.


    Edit: "Acrobatics in Aerodactyl would be heaven sent, but you can try the odd ball Power Herb/Sky Attack. I cannot say I fully recommend it on this format because you can pull it off better in VGC where matches are shorter and the potential OHKO from Sky Attack comes much more handy. Of course Aerodactyl doesn't stay alive that long either. Sad thing is, it probably doesn't OHKO Hitmontop after Intimidate."
    Focus Sash Sandstorm Aerodactyl survives surprisingly long and helps against weather spam. Idk if Sky Attack OHKOs top, but it might considering it usually doesn't run 252 Def. Some even run speed over HP.
  4. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnus
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    Thought I'd share a set that I've been using and having success with:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Latias (F) @ Draco Plate / Sitrus Berry / Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Psyshock
    - Tailwind
    - Protect

    When I saw that Latios was higher than Latias in the usage stats, I was pretty shocked. Latias has some notable advantages over her brother, namely increased bulk that lets her better check rain and sun teams. Tailwind Latias makes a fantastic check to these pokemon. It resists common attacks found on Rain/Sun teams, which combined with it's fantastic bulk means that it's not taking much damage from these moves. It also has Tailwind, which lets your team outspeed dangerous weather sweepers when you can't get rid of the weather. Dragon Pulse and Psyshock are the STAB moves of choice, with Draco Plate being the main item since it raises the power of Dragon Pulse without recoil, which is useful when using weathers that have passive damage. If this isn't a concern, Sitrus or Life Orb can be used based on whether you'd like increased durability or a harder hitter. Things that can take out specially defensive walls, steel types, or dark types are all good partners, so pairing a Ground or Fighting type with Latias can be very helpful. A Fake Out or Follow Me/Rage Powder user can also be helpful if you need to get a Tailwind off.
  5. OVERGRO

    OVERGRO

    Joined:
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    My goodness, those are actually somewhat surprising results. I gotta say, Smogon Doubles deserves it's popularity.

    @Rotom-W: I have to disagree, Rotom-W works well on Sun teams. It can threaten Rain, and works well under any weather at all. (Just don't HPump in the Sun, but if the weather changes Water STAB is pretty useful). It's bulky and acts as an excellent glue to the team, I have used it several times.

    @Shaymin-Sky: Flinches and the -2 Sp.Def Drof are amazing tools in Shaymin's Arsenal, 2HKO'ing univested Thundurus and other frailer Pokemon on a resisted hit. Pair it up with something like Scizor or Terrakion and you've got an excellent combo for blowing holes in your opponent. Surprised at the "low" usage

    @Abomasnow: Wow, that's low. Considering a ton of the people high on the ladder use Hail. A LOT. As well we have already discussed Hail.

    @ Kyurem-B: One on hand, it is crazy powerful, great at destroying things. On the other hand, it does not have good synergy with a lot of teams. So I guess people go for synergy over power then.

    @Breloom: People don't realize the power of Spore, Tech Mach Punch and Tech Bullet Seed... yet.

    @Sableye, Musharna and Tornadus: Wow, pretty low for decent pokemon. Sableye can be such a pain to your opponent EVERY MATCH. And Mush isn't that outclassed... well OK maybe just a little :/

    @Darkrai: Another surprise. Super fast and powerful too, with alright support I see it can be a beast, again, we've discussed this before. Something to try: Psychic on Darkrai. Terrakion, Hitmontop and Breloom will never see it coming.

    _______

    This is going places, I can feel it. Six months until Gen 6, let's see what happens then! I think that or just before that would be a great time to make this really official.
  6. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    ^Oh yess, Psychic Chople Berry Darkrai. I'm gonna use that.
  7. Jean mi

    Jean mi

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    I personally use Musharna, particularly this set for my trick room team :

    [​IMG]
    @Leftovers/Sitrus berry/Mental herb
    Ability : Telepathy
    EVs : 252 hp max 252 spec def (max def could be used too depending on your team)
    0 speed IV
    Trick room
    Helping hand
    Moonlight
    Psychic

    You may say that Cress is better because it's more bulky but I prefer Musharna because the telepathy is very useful, not only to avoid allies' EQ like Cress but also other moves like Surf, Discharge, Lava plume or whatever. Its speed is lower so it can attack or heal him self very fast under TR.
  8. VarunR

    VarunR

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    So we have the stats. :D I more or less expected the top 5 to be what it is, except for some changes in order (Cresselia at top, Hitmontop second). Scizor at 6 is surprising because I hardly see him. I play higher on the ladder so he's probably more common down it. Latios and Garchomp as well. Now look at the underused great pokemon.

    | 29 | Conkeldurr | 5.94520% | 1837 | 5.569% | 0 | 0.000% |
    | 30 | Shaymin-Sky | 5.85910% | 1550 | 4.699% | 0 | 0.000% |
    | 31 | Abomasnow | 5.82859% | 1656 | 5.020% | 0 | 0.000% |

    Look who is higher than Skymin and Abomasnow. Conkeldurr. Who out of 120 games or so on the ladder, I have seen only perhaps once or twice. :|

    42 | Reuniclus | 4.79249% | 1520 | 4.608% | 0 | 0.000% |
    | 45 | Bronzong | 4.28200% | 1302 | 3.947% | 0 | 0.000% |

    Trick Room is such a force now and its weird seeing one of its primary setters and abusers sitting so down low. I see Bronzong on more than half of every Trick Room team I face, and Reuniclus although not much, should be used more.

    | 43 | Blaziken | 4.33617% | 1455 | 4.411% | 0 | 0.000% |

    Why isn't this higher up?

    85 | Darkrai | 1.88133% | 576 | 1.746% | 0 | 0.000% |
    102 | Murkrow | 1.43630% | 413 | 1.252% | 0 | 0.000% |
    129 | Bisharp | 1.03353% | 333 | 1.009% | 0 | 0.000% |

    Great pokemon that deserve to be used more. The metagame's relatively infant now so I don't mind much; I hope their usage will only go up as we progress.
  9. The Reptile

    The Reptile AMH REALLY SPHEALING IT
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    I know it's been mentioned before, but holy shit is ScarfJelli pro as fuck

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Water Spout
    - Surf / Ice Beam
    - Shadow Ball
    - Trick / Ice Beam

    This thing is a huge threat on Rain Teams, as it's Rain-Boosted Water Spouts at max HP are insanely powerful, especially if boosted by Politoed's Helping Hand. Since Choice Items seem to be rare (idk why), Jellicent is assured to outspeed most pokemon and hit them hard. What Jellicent has over Wailord in this spot is it's Ghost-typing and Water Absorb. Thanks to Water Absorb, it can heal itself from enemy and friendly Surfs, while it's Ghost-typing along with Water Absorb make it immune to 5 types of priority (Not counting Quick Attack because lolQuickAttack), including Fake Out. STAB Shadow Ball let it hit the Lati-twins and other Water-types for solid damage. Surf is there for those times where Jelli is low on HP. Trick can be used to cripple something before going down, while Ice Beam can be used to hit Grass- and Dragon-types SE. I use modest, but I haven't actually checked Speed Tiers yet, so idk what nature to use.
    I haven't used this outside of Rain, but it should be obvious that Rain is it's best weather, since Rain Boosted Water Spouts will destroy things.

    Speaking of Choice Scarfed pokemon, has anyone tried used ScarfTran under the Sun (I wish it didn't need Quite-Nature to use Eruption :<)? Flash Fire Sun Boosted Heat Wave sounds powerful coming off of base 130 SpA.


    @ Latias Set

    Funnily enough, I used a similar set as that one, but with Draco Meteor and Lefties (In hindsight, probably wasn't a very good idea), and I can say that Latias is definitely better than Latios, as the extra power isn't too much of a big deal. The extra bulk comes in handy vs Sun/Rain as you have said. Tailwind Latias is a lot like Tailwind Tornadus, trading the +1 Priority with good (special) bulk. It also helps that Latias is fast as fuck, allowing it to get off a Tailwind before dying. Overall, I think Latias is a much better offensive answer to Sun/Rain teams than Latios.

    @ Musharna Set

    Musharna definitely has a place over Cress in Trick Room teams, and it just fits better on offensive teams thanks to it's solid 107 SpA. Seriously, I think Musharna deserves more love than it's getting. I think a set like:

    Musharna @ Leftovers
    Trait: Telepathy
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Psychic
    - Helping Hand / Trick Room
    - Protect
    - Heal Bell / Imprison

    Could be used to support more offensive teams, since Telepathy lets it dodge all spread moves from it's allies instead of just EQ like Cress. I have Heal Bell over Moonlight for more support, but Moonlight can be used as well. Trick Room + Imprison is great, as it is a good answer against Trick Room teams. Imprisoning Protect is also great, since Protect is useful and what not. I was thinking of putting Signal Beam for Dark-types, but a Fighting-type partner is probably better, considering Musharna is slow as fuck anyways.

    A Gravity-set seems like something it can do better than Cress as well, since Cress will lose it's Ground immunity while Musharna can still avoid friendly EQs.
  10. Antar

    Antar Self-anointed Czar of LC UU
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Programmeris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributor
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    Less than 2.955%.
  11. HabibsHotDogs

    HabibsHotDogs

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    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles9021665

    Just watch the second turn, I am interested in your opinions!

    I'll be changing alts soon too.

    PS: To all the infernape haters I am finding it remarkably useful in doubles, its not supposed to be your generic heat waving fire type, try using it with single target moves. (I use troll/surprise teams in doubles often, SD whimsicott with SB 'nape)

    edit: haha this match was exciting for me, I hope its as interesting to watch as it was to play (beating TR)

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles9022124
  12. Enguarde

    Enguarde I only play ADV UU
    is a Battle Server Moderator

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    Hi there doubles players! Currently a mini-tour is being held in the Ubers forum and the gimmick this time is that the matches will be played in doubles format, and that you may use 2 different Arceus forms on your teams!

    So if you feel like playing a some doubles within the Ubers realm feel free to join this mini-tour!
  13. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Concerning everyone who says Musharna is a better choice for offensive teams, I agree with Pocket that it's not necessarily true. I've seen more than one post saying the opposite and then listing a 0 SpA Musharna set. You need to keep in mind that Cress can opt to invest EVs into its SpA. In fact:

    • Calm Musharna with a 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD spread: 436 HP, 207 Def, 250 SpA, 317 SpD.
    • Calm Cresselia with a 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA spread: 444 HP, 277 Def, 249 SpA, 325 SpD.

    Calm Cresselia with 252 SpA EVs has more bulk than Musharna both physically and specially (and especially on the physical side) and only 1 SpA stat less. Cresselia also has a superior offensive movepool thanks to access to Ice Beam and Icy Wind, which hits many things super-effectively, as well as more unpredictability because she can do so much.

    If you're going to use Musharna over Cresselia, do not do so because of its higher SpA; you should do so for Telepathy and its different movepool.

    You could also argue that Musharna could invest in SpA EVs to suprass even Modest 252 SpA Cresselia's SpA. However, you face competition with Reuniclus by doing so, who has even higher SpA and access to Magic Guard, enabling the use of LO without recoil. And generally, when you're abusing Telepathy, you're doing so with very powerful spread attacks that appreciate a Helping Hand boost more than a hard-hitting Psychic, so you'd probably be better off investing in bulk than SpA when using Musharna for Telepathy.
  14. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast (im)patiently waiting for SPL
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner

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    That's what I meant by saying that Musharna was better on offensive teams - it's not its stats that make it better, but Telepathy and the support it provides through moves. It's pretty much the crux of my current team, and Helping Hand boosted spread moves are nothing to laugh at. Imprison is also incredibly useful, bring Trick Room teams to a screeching halt.

    For those who are curious, I posted a big stats evaluation near the bottom of the last page. Sorry it's a bit hard to read, I got lazy and just wrote my comments in the quote box.
  15. HabibsHotDogs

    HabibsHotDogs

    Joined:
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    Has anybody else been using manual weather to deal with all the auto weather users?

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles9044107

    I'm thinking of a manual weather team that can work around any weather, this one does decently against rain hail or sand, but sun teams are a challenge (although still doable)

    edit: just noticed infernape gets helping hand, trying to figure out a set and partners to really use this well.

    edit 2: Showcasing the power of endeavour whimsicott, will gladly give my set if anybody is interested:

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles9053853
  16. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    I apologise for getting confused with what you and others meant. I agree, Telepathy is an incredibly useful ability, and if you plan on abusing it, Musharna works well. I have, however, seen some teams that used it seemingly without a valid reason to do so; they didn't abuse Telepathy or its different movepool. Also, I'm a Cresselia die-hard fan! :nerd:

    I also appreciate your analysis of the lists.

    Concerning your comment as to why Gastrodon is 4th, I feel that it is a underrated Pokemon. In the right team, it is a monster. Any team that doesn't have a Grass-type attack will struggle against it.

    It checks so many things. Rain is obvious the first one that comes to mind, essentially forcing your opponent to bring out their Pokemon with Grass-type attacks (usually Ludicolo or Grass Knot Thundurus-T). And if those Pokemon are taken out, it's probably game. It pairs very well with Pokemon that hate Water-type attacks like Heatran, easily taking advantage of the inevitable Water-type attack for a SpA boost and providing permanent protection for your Pokemon from Scald and Hydro Pump, and discouraging your opponent from spamming Surf / Muddy Water. It's probably the best Water-type to use on a FWG core, protecting your Fire-type, and your F and G partner can switch into any Grass-attack aimed at Gastrodon. It also checks many more Pokemon like Thundurus and Metagross; in fact, with an offensive set and Earth Gem, it can OHKO Metagross.

    I find bulky spreads the best, as then it doesn't die. I like 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD with a +SpD nature. It lets Gastrodon survive Modest Hydreigon's and Timid Latios' Dragon Gem Draco Meteor and only get 3HKOed by Tyranitar's Crunch and Metagross' Zen Headbutt, and you just Recover off the damage. In the meanwhile, it has great coverage with Muddy Water, Ice Beam, and Earth Power. Or it can Toxic stall your opponent, which is easy to do with its bulk + Recover. And it's providing Storm Drain support the entire time. If you pair it with TR support, Stockpile is amazing. Together, it can set up a boost before your opponent can attack it, and it'll survive anything your opponent throws at it. It can easily get 3 boosts, and with them, it can even stall out Ludicolo's Giga Drain with Recover. Whilst your opponent may resort to just double targetting your ally all the time, leaving Gastrodon for the end, you can predict around this e.g. Protect / switch whilst Gastrodon then takes down your opponents with attacks or Toxic. Crits suck though. Mirror Coat is great as well; with a Rindo Berry, it will OHKO any Grass-type, as well as any strong special attack aimed at it. You'll need to predict with it, but mind you, it really helps to be good at prediction when you use it so that you can switch it in at opportune times to get a Storm Drain boost.

    I'll talk about your other comments later when I get the time.

    Manual weather is good for goodstuffs team that want a way to counter the other weathers, whilst they benefit from the weather they set up and counter teams based around that weather. For example, you can fit Rain Dance on Cresselia when paired with Gastrodon and Ferrothorn to support them whilst countering non-rain weathers, yet you have Gastrodon and Ferrothorn to check rain-teams (especially if Cresselia has TR).

    Manual weather is also useful paired alongside auto weather for helping maintain your weather against opposing weather teams, or in case your weather settler is taken down. Good users in this scenario are Whimsicott for sun and Tornadus and Thundurus for rain thanks to prankster. Fast Pokemon like Starmie and bulky users like Cress and Bronzong work well too. This is a good strategy for teams that are very reliant on maintaining their weather.
  17. AuraRayquaza

    AuraRayquaza

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    Many battlers also use tyranitar for sand on a team that does not need it just for disruption of the opposing weather. Ttar's special bulk is very high with the 1.5x boost from sand and has great attack power so it can fit onto goodstuffs very easily. Ttar can also counter sand teams (with support from a poke who can take out chlorophyll users, like heatran). Allowing it to win the weather war easily. Chople berry can be used to mitigate the fighting weakness and make ttar indestructible for a turn or two. Ttar can also stand a good chance of taking out cresselia (#2 in usage) so it can leave another spot open where you would have had to put in another poke to take out cress. Overall, if you need a weather disruptor and cannot afford to run sunny day/rain dance on a poke, Tyranitar is a very good choice that will not be regretted.

    Show Hide
    I must also apologise to everyone for making a post that did not provide any helpful info for anyone and was just junk in the thread. It was silly of me and i should have read the post by pocket saying what/not to post. I promise it will not happen again.

    (it was funny though)
  18. Kyogre

    Kyogre

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
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    Show Hide
    Battle between Kyogre and -Mercury- started!

    Tier: Mixed Black/White 2
    Mode: Doubles
    Rule: Unrated
    Rule: Sleep Clause
    Rule: Freeze Clause
    Rule: Species Clause
    Rule: Wifi Battle
    Rule: Self-KO Clause

    Your team: Breloom / Scizor / Tyranitar / Hitmonlee / Latias / Genesect
    Opponent's team: Togekiss / Garchomp / Gastrodon / Hitmontop / Bisharp / Cresselia

    Kyogre sent out Hitmonlee!
    -Mercury- sent out Togekiss!
    Kyogre sent out Latias!
    -Mercury- sent out Hitmontop!
    The foe's Hitmontop intimidates Hitmonlee!
    Hitmonlee's Attack fell!
    The foe's Hitmontop intimidates Latias!
    Latias's Attack fell!
    Ralf-Rüdiger is watching the battle.
    Kyogre: gl hf
    -Mercury-: gl hf

    Start of turn 1
    Kyogre called Hitmonlee back!
    Kyogre sent out Tyranitar!

    Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
    -Mercury- called Hitmontop back!
    -Mercury- sent out Cresselia!

    Latias used Tailwind!
    A tailwind started blowing behind Kyogre's team!

    The foe's Togekiss used Thunder Wave!
    Latias is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

    The sandstorm rages.
    The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Togekiss is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    Latias is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's Togekiss restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 2
    -Mercury- called Cresselia back!
    -Mercury- sent out Bisharp!

    Tyranitar used Rock Slide!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Togekiss lost 51% of its health!
    It's not very effective...
    A critical hit!
    The foe's Bisharp lost 36% of its health!

    The foe's Togekiss used Thunder Wave!
    Tyranitar is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

    Latias used Draco Meteor!
    It's not very effective...
    Latias's Dragon Gem raised Draco Meteor's power!
    The foe's Bisharp lost 53% of its health!
    Latias's Sp. Att. sharply fell!

    The sandstorm rages.
    The foe's Togekiss is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    Latias is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Togekiss restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 3
    Kyogre called Latias back!
    Kyogre sent out Scizor!

    The foe's Togekiss used Air Slash!
    Scizor lost 132 HP! (42% of its health)

    The foe's Bisharp used Low Kick!
    It's super effective!
    Tyranitar's Chople Berry weakened Low Kick's power!
    Tyranitar lost 304 HP! (81% of its health)

    Tyranitar used Low Kick!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Bisharp lost 10% of its health!
    The foe's Bisharp fainted!

    The sandstorm rages.
    The foe's Togekiss is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Togekiss restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    -Mercury- sent out Hitmontop!

    The foe's Hitmontop intimidates Tyranitar!
    Tyranitar's Attack fell!
    The foe's Hitmontop intimidates Scizor!
    Scizor's Attack fell!

    Start of turn 4
    Kyogre called Scizor back!
    Kyogre sent out Latias!

    Kyogre called Tyranitar back!
    Kyogre sent out Genesect!

    Genesect's Download activates!
    Genesect's Attack rose!
    The foe's Hitmontop used Fake Out!
    Latias lost 43 HP! (11% of its health)

    The foe's Togekiss used Roost!
    The foe's Togekiss landed on the ground!
    The foe's Togekiss regained health!

    The sandstorm rages.
    The foe's Togekiss is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    Latias is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Togekiss restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Kyogre's team tailwind petered out!
    DerDomme is watching the battle.

    Start of turn 5
    Genesect used Protect!
    Genesect protected itself!

    The foe's Togekiss used Air Slash!
    A critical hit!
    Latias lost 168 HP! (46% of its health)

    The foe's Hitmontop used Close Combat!
    Genesect protected itself!

    Latias used Tailwind!
    A tailwind started blowing behind Kyogre's team!

    The sandstorm rages.
    The foe's Togekiss is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    Latias is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Togekiss restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Kyogre: glücklich hm

    Start of turn 6
    Latias used Helping Hand!
    Latias is ready to help Genesect!

    Genesect used Ice Beam!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Togekiss lost 76% of its health!

    The foe's Togekiss used Air Slash!
    A critical hit!
    Latias lost 65 HP! (17% of its health)
    Latias fainted!

    The foe's Hitmontop used Close Combat!
    The foe's Hitmontop's Fighting Gem raised Close Combat's power!
    Genesect lost 288 HP! (87% of its health)
    The foe's Hitmontop's Defense fell!
    The foe's Hitmontop's Sp. Def. fell!

    The sandstorm rages.
    The foe's Togekiss is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Togekiss restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Kyogre sent out Hitmonlee!

    living things. is watching the battle.

    Start of turn 7
    -Mercury- called Hitmontop back!
    -Mercury- sent out Cresselia!

    Hitmonlee used Fake Out!
    The foe's Cresselia lost 8% of its health!

    Genesect used Ice Beam!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Togekiss lost 22% of its health!
    The foe's Togekiss fainted!

    The sandstorm rages.
    Hitmonlee is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    -Mercury- sent out Hitmontop!

    The foe's Hitmontop intimidates Genesect!
    Genesect's Attack fell!
    The foe's Hitmontop intimidates Hitmonlee!
    Hitmonlee's Attack fell!

    Start of turn 8
    Kyogre called Hitmonlee back!
    Kyogre sent out Tyranitar!

    Genesect used Protect!
    Genesect protected itself!

    The foe's Hitmontop used Feint!
    It's not very effective...
    Genesect lost 17 HP! (5% of its health)

    The foe's Cresselia used Icy Wind!
    It's not very effective...
    Genesect lost 12 HP! (3% of its health)
    Genesect's Speed fell!
    Tyranitar lost 18 HP! (4% of its health)
    Tyranitar's Speed fell!

    The sandstorm rages.
    The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Kyogre's team tailwind petered out!
    Kyogre: ach btw
    Kyogre: kann ich den log sichern?
    -Mercury-: ja

    Start of turn 9
    Kyogre called Genesect back!
    Kyogre sent out Scizor!

    The foe's Cresselia used Psyshock!
    It's not very effective...
    Scizor lost 36 HP! (11% of its health)

    The foe's Hitmontop used Close Combat!
    It's super effective!
    Tyranitar lost 53 HP! (14% of its health)
    Tyranitar fainted!
    The foe's Hitmontop's Defense fell!
    The foe's Hitmontop's Sp. Def. fell!

    The sandstorm rages.
    The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Kyogre: das smogon-projekt da find ich ganz cool
    pasy is watching the battle.
    Kyogre: deshalb
    Kyogre sent out Breloom!

    Kyogre: und die sind halt über jeden log froh

    Start of turn 10
    -Mercury- called Cresselia back!
    -Mercury- sent out Gastrodon!

    -Mercury- called Hitmontop back!
    -Mercury- sent out Garchomp!

    Breloom used Spore!
    The foe's Garchomp fell asleep!

    Scizor used Bug Bite!
    Scizor's Bug Gem raised Bug Bite's power!
    The foe's Gastrodon lost 68% of its health!
    Scizor stole and ate the foe's Gastrodon's Rindo Berry!

    The sandstorm rages.
    Breloom is buffeted by the sandstorm!

    Start of turn 11
    The foe's Gastrodon used Protect!
    The foe's Gastrodon protected itself!

    The foe's Garchomp is fast asleep.

    Breloom used Bullet Seed!
    The foe's Gastrodon protected itself!

    Scizor used Tailwind!
    A tailwind started blowing behind Kyogre's team!

    The sandstorm rages.
    Breloom is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    pasy: dann kyogre

    Start of turn 12
    -Mercury- called Garchomp back!
    -Mercury- sent out Hitmontop!

    The foe's Hitmontop intimidates Scizor!
    Scizor's Attack fell!
    The foe's Hitmontop intimidates Breloom!
    Breloom's Attack fell!
    The foe's Gastrodon used Protect!
    The foe's Gastrodon protected itself!

    Breloom used Bullet Seed!
    The foe's Gastrodon protected itself!

    Scizor used Bug Bite!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Hitmontop lost 20% of its health!

    The sandstorm rages.
    Breloom is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    sebixxl is watching the battle.

    Start of turn 13
    Kyogre called Scizor back!
    Kyogre sent out Hitmonlee!

    The foe's Hitmontop used Fake Out!
    Breloom lost 54 HP! (19% of its health)

    Breloom flinched and couldn't move!

    The foe's Gastrodon used Icy Wind!
    Hitmonlee avoided the attack!
    It's super effective!
    Breloom lost 118 HP! (42% of its health)
    Breloom's Speed fell!

    The sandstorm rages.
    Hitmonlee is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    Breloom is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    Kyogre: sry

    Start of turn 14
    -Mercury- called Hitmontop back!
    -Mercury- sent out Cresselia!

    Hitmonlee used Substitute!
    Hitmonlee made a substitute!

    Breloom used Bullet Seed!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Gastrodon lost 31% of its health!
    The foe's Gastrodon fainted!
    Hit 1 time(s)!

    The sandstorm rages.
    Hitmonlee is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    Breloom is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Kyogre's team tailwind petered out!
    -Mercury- sent out Garchomp!

    Start of turn 15
    Kyogre called Breloom back!
    Kyogre sent out Scizor!

    The foe's Garchomp is fast asleep.

    Hitmonlee used Close Combat!
    Hitmonlee's Fighting Gem raised Close Combat's power!
    The foe's Garchomp lost 94% of its health!
    Hitmonlee's Defense fell!
    Hitmonlee's Sp. Def. fell!

    The foe's Cresselia used Icy Wind!
    Hitmonlee's substitute took the damage!
    It's not very effective...
    Scizor lost 14 HP! (4% of its health)
    Scizor's Speed fell!

    The sandstorm rages.
    Hitmonlee is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    sebixxl: boa mercury benutzt legies
    sebixxl: cheater
    Kyogre: ich hab genesect
    sebixxl: boa kyogre auch
    sebixxl: was is nur aus dem guten alten pikachu donnerschock geworden

    Start of turn 16
    Hitmonlee used Rock Slide!
    The foe's Cresselia avoided the attack!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Garchomp lost 5% of its health!
    The foe's Garchomp fainted!

    The foe's Cresselia used Psyshock!
    It's super effective!
    Hitmonlee's substitute faded!

    Scizor used Bug Bite!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Cresselia lost 58% of its health!

    The sandstorm rages.
    Hitmonlee is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    living things.: lol sebi
    -Mercury- sent out Hitmontop!

    The foe's Hitmontop intimidates Hitmonlee!
    Hitmonlee's Attack fell!
    The foe's Hitmontop intimidates Scizor!
    Scizor's Attack fell!

    Start of turn 17
    Kyogre called Hitmonlee back!
    Kyogre sent out Breloom!

    Scizor used Protect!
    Scizor protected itself!

    The foe's Hitmontop used Fake Out!
    Scizor protected itself!

    The foe's Cresselia used Trick Room!
    The foe's Cresselia twisted the dimensions!

    The sandstorm rages.
    The foe's Hitmontop is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Cresselia is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    Breloom is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    The foe's Cresselia restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Kyogre: shit

    Start of turn 18
    Breloom used Mach Punch!
    The foe's Hitmontop lost 31% of its health!
    The foe's Hitmontop fainted!

    Scizor used Bug Bite!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Cresselia lost 33% of its health!
    The foe's Cresselia fainted!

    Kyogre won the battle!
    Kyogre: gg
    -Mercury-: gg


    Log of the match between Mercury and me for the Doubles Tournament. It was a really good match so I thought you might appreciate it.
  19. thesynchrohero

    thesynchrohero

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Messages:
    203
    Does anyone think this is a good combination ?

    Basculin-Blue-Striped @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Adaptability
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Superpower
    - Crunch
    - Soak

    Shedinja @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Wonder Guard
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Shadow Claw
    - Swords Dance
    - X-Scissor
    - Protect

    Basically you start off by soaking Shedinja, then you wreck whatever they send in to counter him. If you think a pokemon with grass or electric as coverage or a bug resist use Shadow Claw, otherwise spam X-scissor.
  20. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    Transform into Shedinja with Mew. Behold 404 times the HP. Plus use water sport in rain, dual screens and spam struggle bug+snarl+intimidate. Invincible Shedinja mode.
  21. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    311
    Shedinja has such crappy defenses that you'll be pretty easy to kill even with 100 base Hp, you'll also be retardedly slow and with a poor move pool. Could work from time to time, it's worth testing simply because it's a rather uncommon Shedinja combo, but it doesn't sound very powerful.


    Soaking Scarfers are pretty bad in my book, they end up taking way too many switches for little gain, Basculin has speed, but the fact it will be forced out pretty easily will allow your opponent to fetch their answer to Shedinja is they have any. So Soak Shedinja is more of a late game tool, but at that point you cannot be sure Basculin won't be outsped by other factors. At least Seaking and Golduck also patch Shedinja's defenses against other potential threats.
  22. Skore

    Skore

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    857
    I am finding that matching Trick Room plus weather is a Beast of a tactic.

    TrickHail and Trick Sand are unbelievable powerful tactics as T-Tar and Obama can get pretty slow, allowing them to increase their bulk while not losing power.

    Once TR is set up, Spamming Blizzards with Abomasnow and Glaceon can get pretty absurd, as can spamming Rock Slide with T-Tar and C-Band Lando-T.

    I'm also finding Cofragrigus to be a more reliable TR setter due to it's bulk and typing, and with WoW and Pain Split to annoy and keep itself healthy it is an excellent partner to many pokemon.
  23. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    Dusclops>Cofagrigus

    Dusclops with Eviolite and 252 HP/252 Def Bold is the equivalent of a base 40/210/155 defenses mon with that same investment

    Cofagrigus is only 58/145/105 defenses

    Dusclops is also slower and the lower base HP makes Pain Split more abusable.

    Also, I feel as if support mons don't need offensive presence because if anything that makes them targeted more often. Then, it is harder for them to do their job.
  24. Skore

    Skore

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    857
    I like Cofa as it has much more of an offensive presence, and don't discount the usefulness of Mummy.
  25. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,878
    This post was a pretty lousy one, seeing as you failed to say any reasons as to why that's so. Anyways, I think Cofagrigus is better anyways. Dusclops has 0 offensive presence and is forced to go with Night Shade for damage, while Cofagrigus isn't as poor in that regard since it has a decent 90 SpAtk, and access to boosting moves like Calm Mind. Cofagrigus can also run an item as Dusclops is pretty much forced to go with Eviolite, giving it many more options such as Mental Herb to dodge Taunt, Lum Berry to block status, going with a ChestoRest set, etc. Also, Mummy's great considering how many pokemon rely on their abilities to do well, such as Scizor, Blaziken, Excadrill, etc.
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