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Pokémon Greninja

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Hypercut, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. MrMewTwo

    MrMewTwo

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    That's very true. I think Greninja would enjoy a move that is not shadow sneak in his last move slot.

    As for hidden power fire- I think that's an excellent choice on him.
  2. VCrowe

    VCrowe

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    While a ghost move would give him two immunities, and allow him to spin block, I don't see a point in using this unless you'll be running spikes on the same set so I have to agree with you. HP fire gives him some good resists and potentially allows him to beat Scizor and Ferrothorn, so it seems like a better option on an offensive set since we know he can't learn Shadow Ball now.
  3. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    I find this thing and its ability hilarious, and incredibly useful both offensively and defensively. You guys want a FWG core on your team? This. Surf/Grass Knot/HP Fire/filler. I just wish its defenses were a bit higher to really utilize its whacky type changing craziness. This thing is awesome though, and I can't wait to see where it'll fall into this metagame once it develops. This is mind games done right. Take notes Zoroark.

    500th post yay.
    Sōusuke Aizen and VCrowe like this.
  4. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Thanks to everyone that help me to edit first post with moves. I can't do all of this by myself because in the game i'm at 6th badge, and i don't have all the TM and i haven't any chance to breed anymore.
    What do you think about Sticky Web? Does the core Greninja + Galvantula be a powerful threat? Galvantula uses Sticky Web, and opponent's scarfed pokèmon return in their normal speed without boost.
    In my opinion this core is very difficult to contain, but we have to wait.
  5. Emerald Master

    Emerald Master

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    water is for type coverage

    water + grass +ice can't be resisted, period
  6. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    Now that we have confirmed that Greninja's base Speed is 122, that allows him to sneak past even Dugtrio, Alakazam, and even Tornadus in speed which is wonderful. Base 103 SpA too, so we can now run accurate calcs on specific sets Greninja will want to run. He's certainly looking like an excellent scout and he DOES have Spikes, just in case everyone forgot during the Rapid Spin Myth debacle.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2013
    TaBuu likes this.
  7. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Somethings I wanted to say about this thread for a while now:

    1) Yes, please stop talking about other Mega Evolutions here, since some of the posts pertaining to them don't even mention Greninja at all.

    2) Please don't use this thread as a "help" or "suggestions" thread for your own in-game Froakkies/Greninjas and their Hidden Powers/IVs and such. This is meant to highlight competitive possibilities for Greninja, so if you have questions like those, please go to the simple questions/simple answers thread for your needs.

    3) Please don't bust your nerves trying to get or prove the viability/existence of specific moves on Greninja. Seriously, if you really wanted to spinblock your Spikes, just U-turn to a Ghost-type and there you go, and I doubt discussion on Rapin Spin would prove useful unless there was proof it actually learned it. Again, its competitive movepool is totally your choice, but I'd rather not have to look at a bunch of pages panicking over the fact that Greninja doesn't have a certain move.

    ---

    And now that that's settled, it's set making time!

    name: Offensive Spiker
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid / Naive
    ability: Protean
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Your basic special attacking Greninja, basically designed to revenge kill threats, outrunning even Tornadus-T and Alakazam and giving general offensive team a fast way to utilize entry hazards without resorting to Skarmory or Ferrothorn (who have their advantages in defensive typing). Only the last two moves are debatable due to 4MSS, but Ice Beam and Hidden Power Fire are for coverage, while U-turn is great since it allows Greninja to scout and switch to a Ghost-type in front of Rapid Spinners. Hidden Power Ghost can go here, but is generally unnecessary on this set, and it's better to use offensive Ghost-types for your needs.

    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Grass Knot
    move 4: U-turn
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid / Naive
    ability: Protean
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Very similar to the previous set, but plays differently in that it suffers from less 4MSS, and its goal is to basically hit-and-run anything that doesn't resist its coverage. Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and U-turn are pretty much non-negotiable, and the third slot is up to preference depending on what you need firepower against. Grass Knot, in particular, is used for an immediate option against Gastrodon and Jellicent without having to rely on teammates.

    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Water Shuriken
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Ice Beam / Return
    item: Life Orb / Choice Band
    nature: Naive / Jolly
    ability: Protean
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    This is more of a tentative set and may not be everybody's favorite, but... it takes a physical approach and advantage of Greninja's decent 95 Atk, and the fact that it has Water Shuriken, an invaluable move against Volcarona, Speed Boost Blaziken, and Dragon Dance Charizard-MegaX, amongst others. Protean also causes Greninja to receive STAB on U-turn, which threatens to OHKO Latios, nearly OHKO 252 HP Latias with SR, and is just an awesome move to use against just about any Pokemon in general. Waterfall is used for a stronger Water-type move. Ice Beam and Return are used for coverage and power, but Ice Beam would be much better with Life Orb to KO Dragon-types and achieve some coverage against Grass-types. Return is fine for good coverage with Water, and having STAB and high BP. Note that Night Slash is not used here due to U-turn having similar coverage and base power, but can be used for Jellicent.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
  8. Emerald Master

    Emerald Master

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    Focus Crusher

    moves
    water shuriken
    shadow sneak
    u-turn
    ice beam/spikes

    item:expert belt/lum berry
    EVs: 252 atk, 252 spd, 4hp
    ability:protean

    this set is all about breaking focus sashes/sturdies. water shuriken will alow you to crush any lv.1 shell bell endeavor arons, shadow sneak can spinblock, u-turn is great for escaping a bad situation, put ice beam in slot4 if you need type coverage but otherwise go with spikes

    i'm kinda new at this so some sugestions would be nice
    BlankZero likes this.
  9. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    Yes, exactly this. If I'd had the time earlier I would've posted a set exactly like this one. There's no need to mess around with turning yourself into a Ghost when you can just hit with a Protean STAB-boosted U-turn and switch into a REAL ghost, one that will probably fare much better at spinblocking than Greninja. I would remove the slash in the final slot because U-turn is just too important to pass up here. HP Fire or Ice Beam, it's a toss-up depending on who your team would struggle with more. Excellent set.
  10. Darkark

    Darkark

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    On serebii it states that the pokemon with protean changes type before it uses a move. (http://www.serebii.net/abilitydex/protean.shtml). In my limited understanding this would mean that this guy would be able to stab any move it can learn. Also from my limited understanding from this ability, would that make this guy one of the most versatile checks in the game. Disregarding his somewhat limited movepool it seems as if there is a viable scarf/specs/orb set here somewhere.

    Physical :
    Protean
    Life Orb / Choice Band / Water Flying Dark Gem
    Jolly / Naive / Hasty 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    ~ Waterfall / U-Turn
    ~ Shadow Sneak / Water Shurikan / Rock Tomb / Spikes
    ~ Night Slash / Acrobatics
    ~ Rapid Spin / U-Turn / Return

    Special:
    Protean
    Life Orb / Choice Specs / Leftovers
    Timid / Naive / Hasty 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
    ~ Dark Pulse
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Surf / Hydro Pump / Scald / U-Turn
    ~ Substitute / Extrasensory / HP Fire

    The physical set is designed to put the hurt on special walls and physically weak types. Waterfall is the main stab with the extra flinch being an added bonus. The second slot is for your priority option Shurikan can revenge the heatrean or landorous, shadow sneak hit nuetral a little harder with more consistancy, rock tomb is to seal any sun abuse and spikes is always good. Night slash puts the hurt on gengar MAlakazam and the now relevant Gardevoir for at least nuetral, however Acrobatics can be used as coverage if you choose to use a gem. Finally Your last spot goes to utility; Return hits like a tank, rapid spin is amazing with spikes, and U-Turn is always a viable scouting means.

    The special set it practically the bandwagoner of a specks choice, with an option to suprise substitute. Dark Pulse and Ice Beam are good for eliminating the always anoying PSY or DRG sweepers that like to pop up. Hydro pump is the go to guy for massive nueatral coverage, however surf is better in accuracy and DB. Finally Extrasensory can be used in CS however SUB is always an option.

    I have not been able to test this set as of yet, and I would appreciate any feedback on this.
  11. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    I'm assuming Shadow Sneak for Ghost-typing to block Rapid Spin is exclusively for Tentacruel, Blastoise, and Hitmontop? Because you OHKO Starmie 75% of the time with 252 Dark Pulse, OHKO Forretress 100% of the time with HP Fire, and every other Rapid Spinner with Hydro Pump (okay, 176/252 Excadrill lives it, but after one layer of Spikes he's looking at an OHKO 67.5% of the time). Just a note, everything except bulky Excadrill is looking at those OHKOs from full health, much less after a layer or more of Spikes.
  12. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    AccidentalGreed very good sets you posted.
    Maybe this core:

    Greninja @ Life Orb
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
    Hasty Nature
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Fairy] / Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam

    Do Hidden Power Fairy in prediction of a possible entry of Breloom or a random fight, it's really useful. If we get Breloom, then Ice Beam him, if we get a Fight Pokèmon, U-turn it and send Gengar. Mindgames with Protean Greninja are really possible.

    Galvantula @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
    Ability: Compoundeyes
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Sticky Web
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Bug Buzz

    In my opinion, in an offence team, Sticky Web is enormous, but because of Galvantula's fragility, we can run Focus Sash for a secure setup. That's an idea.

    Gengar @ Life Orb / Gengarite
    Ability: Levitate / Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast

    Gengar is really versatile in VI gen, if we Megaevolve, then we can trap a Pokèmon. If it's a Fairy-type, we can smash him with Sludge Bomb. Is really big.

    Can be a huge threat to stop?
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
  13. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Edited OP post that says "GRENINJA NOT LEARN RAPID SPIN!"
    azureleaf17, BlankZero and Lovedrive like this.
  14. MaximumZero

    MaximumZero

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    Has anyone thought of putting Taunt to not let bulky leads set up for themselves ?
    BlankZero and Emerald Master like this.
  15. Lol_cakes

    Lol_cakes

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    Crobat got a pretty substantial buff this gen (ability buff, typing buff, immune to Sticky Web) and can completely outspeed Greninja, letting him hit hard and even Taunt him before Greninja can do anything. I see Crobat, Greninja and Galvantula, with their new utility, being the pinnacle of Volt-Turn teams, though this is all based on assumption. Each being at least decently fast, and covering each others weaknesses nicely. The only problem is they require a spinner (I would go with Forty because of SR and Volt Switch) but I can definitely see some potential for these guys to work with Greninja.
  16. MaximumZero

    MaximumZero

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    If I were to run Taunt and Spikes at the same time , what other moves should I run the set along with ? Physical or Special ? And the item ?
  17. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

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    It really depends on your team and what you want Greninja to accomplish. Greninja has been blessed with an ability allowing it to fit into several roles simply by changing its type. The damage output of physical sets are pretty disappointing without a boost move (which he doesn't have). On the other hand a stab priority is never a bad move. But to answer your question U-turn allows you to switch around and gain momentum. Dark Pulse kos Starmie the best spinner in the tier. Hydro Pump does a solid amount of damage. LO could be utilized but Leftovers is probably favored on a taunt spiker set to maintain survivability.

    Also I cannot understand why people are trying so hard to make Greninja ghost. I completely loved the idea but with Shadow Ball being unavailable, there is no need to force such a pokemon into a role it does not fit. Shadow Sneak and Hidden Power Ghost are such weak moves that detract from Greninja's potential. Furthermore you can't switch in and block the spin so you will have to be carrying a spin blocker anyway. So if you already have a spin blocker why not seek to maximize Greninja and use any combination of his great move pool over shadow sneak and hidden power ghost just to use a subpar gimmick.
    Alert to Sounds likes this.
  18. MaximumZero

    MaximumZero

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    Should I try running a Hasty Nature with Hydro Pump and U-Turn with 252 SpA 252 Spe 4 Atk Leftovers ? I was thinking about utilizing only one stat ( that is his Special Attack ) but it seems U-Turn is just too good to pass out .
  19. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    This is an excellent point. Greninja can only block spinners that switch in on a Pokemon that can become Ghost-type and set Spikes back up itself, which doesn't make any sense.
  20. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

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    Timid could even be used. U-turn in depend of nature will not be doing much damage off of an uninvested mediocre attack stat. U-turn is all about gaining momentum not about the actual damage. Scizor for example, just so happens to be able to gain momentum will doing piles of damage.
  21. Hopkinc1

    Hopkinc1

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    Greninja is an absolute monster!!!!! Turns out the "meh" starter and the "ew" starter (Froakie and Chespin respectively) have become my favorite final evolutions look wise, and stat/ability wise, Greninja took the cake by far! Anyway, I got two sets for Greninja, one was probably already said but there are so many comments I probably missed it. The other is gimicky, but fun as hell at the same time! So here are the two sets:

    Lead Ninja
    Greninja @ Focus Sash
    Torrent/Protean
    EV's: 252 HP / 252 Spd
    Jolly/Timid Nature
    Taunt
    Spikes
    Toxic
    U-Turn

    This is my lead Greninja set. I'm still currently working on getting it to this point so I'm not entirely sure how Viable it will be yet. However, you can see that it runs slightly similarly to Aerodactyl, except add in U-Turn and Toxic rather than two solid attacks. The ability doesn't really make much of a difference, and the EV's are to maximize "survivability" (even though his defenses are kind of thin). I plan on using a Jolly nature over Timid so U-Turn does max damage, but I guess since he isn't supposed to do a lot of damage to anything it doesn't really matter if you use timid.

    TheNinja
    Greninja @ Flying Gem
    Protean
    EV's: 252 Atk, 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    Water Shuriken/Waterfall
    Power-Up Punch
    Acrobatics
    Shadow Sneak

    Okay, this is my INCREDIBLY gimmicky Greninja set based off of, you guessed it! a Ninja. This set is a physical set that is based around using Water Shuriken, by far my favorite new move. If you want a more reliable move you can use Waterfall, but come on! It's priority and can hit up to 5 times to become a move with a base damage stat between 45 and 113 (depending on how many hits). Gimmicky? Yep, but Still a fun move! Power Up Punch is mainly there to boost attack. I thought of using SD instead or Hone Claws but nothing he has is innacurate, and I see that he doesn't learn SD (come on, he's a ninja!!! :\) Acrobatics synergieses well with a Flying gem and his ability, he'll get STAB on the move as well as the boost from the flying Gem. Shadow Sneak is another gimmicky move but it gives you priority if you use Waterfall over Water Shuriken. This set, although not the best, is a lot of fun and very surprising to people who go up against it!
  22. amplafied

    amplafied

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    STAB U-turn on demand looks impressive and the ability to dodge super effective attacks will lead to very interesting mindgames with the opponent. Hidden Power certainly allows you to avoid attacks in a gimmicky way, but I'm concerned that Greninja (even with STAB) won't be able to last long due to its less than desirable defences.
  23. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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    Greninja's Defenses are not the better imo, so Hasty or Naive are better.
    With Protean Greninja can hit very hard with his moveset, he has STAB with all his moves, he's the strongest starter i've ever seen after Blaziken.
    In my opinion, this set is better:

    Greninja @ Life Orb
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
    Hasty Nature
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Fairy]
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam


    Unfortunately, this set can't run Shadow Sneak or Hidden Power Ghost. Why?
    Because you can't force this Pokèmon in a role that doesn't make him good.
    With Protean, he MUST attack. But with a Fast Spikes set, he can run Hidden Power Ghost.
    I mean, this:

    Greninja @ Leftovers / Focus Sash
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
    Timid Nature / Hasty Nature
    - Spikes
    - Hidden Power [Ghost] / Hidden Power [Fire] / Dark Pulse
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam / U-Turn

    This set is better in a fast offence team imo. Due to his speed, you can easily setup 1 or 2 layer of Spikes. Unfortunately he doesn't learn Stealth Rock.
  24. WaffleLeech

    WaffleLeech

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    Welp, shoutout to the guy on /vp/ but I went ahead and bred a Froakie with Toxic Spikes myself and I can indeed confirm he gets Toxic Spikes as an egg move.
    It's a bit tricky though, had to chain breed it. Got an Omanyte off the GTS, caught a Tentacool that knew Toxic Spikes, bred Toxic Spikes onto the Omanyte, then bred it onto Froakie. Visual confirmation below:

    [​IMG]
  25. Peipa-chan

    Peipa-chan

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    Would Shuriken be more viable than Aqua Jet because of the chance of dealing more damage??

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