Specially defensive char-x maybe can check it to some extent but the problem is that you usually run it on stall teams, gyara can switch on it 1 or 2 times but unless it is a bulky variant it will be worn down pretty easily, rotom-w maybe can check it with specially defensive spread, but imo is not worth losing physical bulk because it is really important vs those pokemon rotom aims to checkHow well does bulky charizard X fair against this thing? I've also realized that gyarados and specially defensive rotom wash do decent against greninja.
Porygon2 can counter anything Greninja has to offer, while Tentacruel and Empoleon are nice checks. Offensively, pretty much anything faster can deal with it or at least force it out like Mega Manectric, Mega Sceptile, Mega Lopunny and Talonflame, though you have to be really good with prediction in order for somethng to not die :(.Without packing a Chansey or Blissey on a team, how are you supposed to deal with this Naruto Frog? I've normally just been able to pack an Azumarrill or mono-fairy type on my team and call it a day but now that this thing gets Gunk Shot, it's almost like it can't be stopped without the blobs. Even then, Low Kick is a thing. Thundurus and Klefki have Prankster T-Wave but I'm also thinking Ferrothorn might be the best option to deal with it without having to resort to using a mega. BTW this is for a balanced team since nothing on offense can switch into this thing and hope to live two hits. What do you guys think?
Yea I think Tentacruel sounds like a pretty good choice since it also brings some nice utility in Rapid Spin. Empoleon can set up rocks but so many pokemon can do that thanks to the move tutor. Tentacruel also resists Low Kick where as Empoleon is weak to it. Porygon2 is just so.....meh :[Porygon2 can counter anything Greninja has to offer, while Tentacruel and Empoleon are nice checks. Offensively, pretty much anything faster can deal with it or at least force it out like Mega Manectric, Mega Sceptile, Mega Lopunny and Talonflame, though you have to be really good with prediction in order for somethng to not die :(.
The problem is that it's all you can do. All your options are:Yea I think Tentacruel sounds like a pretty good choice since it also brings some nice utility in Rapid Spin. Empoleon can set up rocks but so many pokemon can do that thanks to the move tutor. Tentacruel also resists Low Kick where as Empoleon is weak to it. Porygon2 is just so.....meh :[
3 pokemon just to deal with one threat? nigga pleaseSuicune and spdef ferrothorn require no support and work fine on offensive teams and can beat greninja. Grass knot and hp fire are among the least popular coverage at the moment. Way way behind ice beam, gunk shot, hydro pump, dark pulse, and extrasensory. MegaGyarados and MegaScizor do well also. And then there's stuff like AV conk, AV kyurem-b, and also there's fast stuff like beedrill, manetric, aerodactyl, loppuny, sceptile, talonflame, and scarfers. I think if you choose a suitable combination of 3 of those pokemon you'll usually have answers to greninja even on offense but you'll have to start saccing later in the game as stuff gets worn down. That's really all you can ask for if you're not willing to drop a chansey or porygon into the team.
3 pokemon just to deal with one threat? nigga please
Just for the sake of my post not getting deleted I'll continue with that's a bit much to cover a single threat when there are dozens more that need to be handled with just 3 slots left on your team.
Steel type helps it resisting pretty much of Greninja's moves but Mega Scizor can't come in on a Hydro Pump and Dark Pulse (and HP Fire obv.) Bullet Punch OHKO's Greninja if it used Ice Beam before, and does around 60% if it used Dark Pulse before. So with 2 rounds of Life Orb damage + a high roll of Bullet Punch + Stealth Rocks damage you have a dead Greninja. It doesn't have any opportunities to set up outside of setting up when Greninja is ice type predicting he will switch out. But even at +2 a Bullet Punch won't KO a Greninja when it has his usual Dark/Water typingHow does Scizor do barring HP fire? Bullet Punch?
How about SD Bullet Punch?
Can it survive long enough to get that going?
No. Those pokemon would be on a team mainly for all of the many useful things that they can do against a wide swath of the OU pokemons. Any fast mega and any scarfer isn't put on a team to check greninja. It's put on a team to compete against anything that's also fast, and greninja is just one of many. Likewise something like conkeldurr has dozens of uses and greninja is just one possible opportunity for him to do something. I wouldn't say that you should start building a team based on having greninja checks. I think you should build a team and afterwards check through it to see how weak to greninja you are. It's very likely that you'll have 3 or 4 pokemon that (completely randomly) just happen to check it, and even counter certain sets.3 pokemon just to deal with one threat? nigga please
Just for the sake of my post not getting deleted I'll continue with that's a bit much to cover a single threat when there are dozens more that need to be handled with just 3 slots left on your team.
The point when dealing with ninja is not being able to revenge kill it or deal damage to it, that's pretty easy with the ton of fast hitters we have (sceptile, manectric, lopunny, talonflame, priorities, scarfers). The real issue is fuckin being able to not being wrecked every time it has an opportunity to hit, and that's pretty impossible, you can only try to scout the moveset and use your best answer to itWhen in doubt, use Scarf landorus therian on greninja. Seriously though, it's pretty good on u-turns while greninja is still a dark type, and as for when it's ice, stone edge does the job most* of the time. But this isn't a check or counter, just a great damage dealer with the right plays.
Okay, really though, if someone can honestly say "specially defensive Ferrothorn works well on offensive teams" without a hint of irony, they shouldn't be taken seriously. Last time I checked, SpD Ferro doesn't put much *cough*offensive*cough pressure on.... Anything? So... Why would I use this on an offensive team again?
I mean, offense at least has the faster Mega Evolutions to pick from. That's... Something, at least. I mean, they still have to come in after something's been taken out, but hey, they have something??? I don't know.
Long story short, Greninja is a pain in the ass. I guess AV Goodra might work since it does have offensive presence thanks to its high base power moves but it has to watch out for Ice Beam since it's a 50/50 whether it gets 2HKO'd after SR or not. Oh wait....Steel type helps it resisting pretty much of Greninja's moves but Mega Scizor can't come in on a Hydro Pump and Dark Pulse (and HP Fire obv.) Bullet Punch OHKO's Greninja if it used Ice Beam before, and does around 60% if it used Dark Pulse before. So with 2 rounds of Life Orb damage + a high roll of Bullet Punch + Stealth Rocks damage you have a dead Greninja. It doesn't have any opportunities to set up outside of setting up when Greninja is ice type predicting he will switch out. But even at +2 a Bullet Punch won't KO a Greninja when it has his usual Dark/Water typing
We don't want to check every pokemon in the meta, we just try to check that fuckin ninja. To do that more or less reliably we are forced to use Teambuilding limitating things (chansey forces you to use stall) or mons that are difficult to fit on a team (empoleon and tentacruel), there are some other decent answers like ferro, Sdef rachi and scizor, maybe AV conk and CM manaphy, But every single mon i nominated still gets wrecked by greninja if it carries the right moves. And rly what are these offensive checks you're talking about, i can't see any except scarf keldeo and the already mentioned conkeldurr.There's something I always wanted to say when it comes down to offensive pokemon that are hard to switch into and have limited checks and even fewer counters. First thing I want to say is that that's pokemon. You can't counter every single pokemon in the game and if your team lacks a counter to a pokemon you have to make risks and sacrifices, which again is part of pokemon(competitive pokemon at least.)
I hear a lot of complains about pokemon that there are no counters and only checks to, but when did checks stop being a viable way to deal with pokemon? If you need to check a pokemon to beat it, then that's what you have to do. And free switches aren't that hard to get into(u-turn,voltswitch) granted a pokemon like greninja doesn't like switching into either of them, having them keeps it at bay.
I've never played 4th gen OU competitively, but I heard that every pokemon can counter every other pokemon and once the first pokemon died, the game ended not to long after. I feel like people want a meta as close to this every time a huge threat comes around. As mentioned before, there are quite a few viable offensive checks to this thing. Use it! There are also decent defensive checks.
See, the thing is, if it stopped at the lack of counters, and dependency on checks to deal with, Ninja would only be a minor threat. However, it also has insane power on its side, 103/95 + LO + STAB is actually pretty hard hitting despite popular belief. That's not all however, it's also fast as all hell, cutting the number of checks to the fairly low number of faster Pokemon in the OU tier. The problem is simple, it has a lack of counters, that is clear, its checks cannot freely switch in for fear of flat out dying, can cover its ass coverage wise, and it's extremely fast, powerful, and can be whatever type it wants to be. In most cases, a Pokemon has at least one downside, be it a multitude of Pokemon hard wall it, or can stall it out, or, it just isn't all that powerful, or it is under too much pressure (something like Rotom-W who can do a lot of things, but slowly gets worn down because of it). Greninja's one and ONLY downfall is, it can't OHKO the entire tier, and instead has to settle with 2HKO'ing.There's something I always wanted to say when it comes down to offensive pokemon that are hard to switch into and have limited checks and even fewer counters. First thing I want to say is that that's pokemon. You can't counter every single pokemon in the game and if your team lacks a counter to a pokemon you have to make risks and sacrifices, which again is part of pokemon(competitive pokemon at least.)
I hear a lot of complains about pokemon that there are no counters and only checks to, but when did checks stop being a viable way to deal with pokemon? If you need to check a pokemon to beat it, then that's what you have to do. And free switches aren't that hard to get into(u-turn,voltswitch) granted a pokemon like greninja doesn't like switching into either of them, having them keeps it at bay.
I've never played 4th gen OU competitively, but I heard that every pokemon can counter every other pokemon and once the first pokemon died, the game ended not to long after. I feel like people want a meta as close to this every time a huge threat comes around. As mentioned before, there are quite a few viable offensive checks to this thing. Use it! There are also decent defensive checks.
i agree with your point but not your last line.We don't want to check every pokemon in the meta, we just try to check that fuckin ninja. To do that more or less reliably we are forced to use Teambuilding limitating things (chansey forces you to use stall) or mons that are difficult to fit on a team (empoleon and tentacruel), there are some other decent answers like ferro, Sdef rachi and scizor, maybe AV conk and CM manaphy, But every single mon i nominated still gets wrecked by greninja if it carries the right moves. And rly what are these offensive checks you're talking about, i can't see any except scarf keldeo and the already mentioned conkeldurr.
Okay, so in that case checks are completely pointless because you basically have to sacrifice one mon each time you want to bring your check in, just to see ninja running away from it. It's fairly easy saying that priorities scarfers and Faster stuff can "check" it, what's the point of it if you can't even switch on it without sacrificing a mon?i agree with your point but not your last line.
scarf keldeo, scarf landorous, scarfchomp (most powerful scarfers can fit here), talonflame, mega-pinsir (most powerful priority users can fit here), mega-lopunny, mega-manectric (most powerful pokes that outspeed can fit here), etc etc etc etc
there are plenty of pokes that can outspeed and ko back. that's a check. from what i understand a check doesn't necessarily have to be able to switch in. if it wins a one-on-one situation, then it's a check.
Those are either very soft checks or Revenge Killers. A check needs to be able to switch into a mon and beat it most of the time, or are able to switch into most moves. Most of the mons you listed are only able to do this sometimes. Garchomp, for example, can take a Gunk Shot, but any other attack wrecks it, and if it switches into Ice Beam you have a dead Garchomp.i agree with your point but not your last line.
scarf keldeo, scarf landorous, scarfchomp (most powerful scarfers can fit here), talonflame, mega-pinsir (most powerful priority users can fit here), mega-lopunny, mega-manectric (most powerful pokes that outspeed can fit here), etc etc etc etc
there are plenty of pokes that can outspeed and ko back. that's a check. from what i understand a check doesn't necessarily have to be able to switch in. if it wins a one-on-one situation, then it's a check.