Haxorus

I think the really scary thing is that switching Skarmory into CBOno's Outrage is going to get you 2HKOed, haha.

You're probably going to have to think outside the box to counter this one, much like you'd have to do for both Salamence and Garchomp, I suppose!
 
Its probably not broken. It can hit hard, but its slow (sorta) and frail.
Agreed. When people see that 147 base attack they just freak out and think "Outrage rape". Well as you all know Outrage locks you in and leaves you open for revenge kill. Problem solved. (Except that something is going down)
 
One thing also that differentiates it from his pseudo-legend counterparts is his lower base special attack, unlike dragonite/garchomp/salamence, you don't need to worry much about loosing a chunk from a draco meteor. I didn't know he got taunt though! I wonder if that would make him a better stall-breaker than mixmence. I also like the pure dragon typing.

Anyway, nice thread!
It's not a psuedo, only has a BST of 540. And yeah, I could see a Taunt + DD set...
 
I agree, Naxte, and Penguin.

In fact, I could live with the comparison to chomp, but regardless, Ono is still just Ono to me. It can wreck havoc just like any other, and his stats are good enough to allow him the presence of being a threat regardless of what tier it's in.

@Random- Do you even understand your own post? Your basically arguing your own assumptions. No one gives a rats ass about it's SpA so why even bring it up? Because mence has better SpA? Why compare it to mence in the first place if it so obviously outclasses it? If your supposed comparison to mence clearly stats that it's outclassed, then why is there a comparison in the first place? You can't even clearly state outside of the obvious factors as to why this thing can't act on it's own outside of mence, and chomp. You think Kingdra gives a shit, about those two? What about TTar? Hell! Gyara? Gyara ran rampant even when chomp, and mence were around. So what kind of arguement are you even putting up when you can't even see around the constant comparisons to the other two dragons?
Umm, have you ever used Salamence before? SpA matters because Salamence relied on it to break its counters and it makes it a better dragon dancer, than Axe-Head dragon. Without Fire Blast, Salamence wouldn't be able get past some of the physical walls that counter it. You DD with Ononojusu and Skarmory comes in and laughs as you try to beat with non- STAB Stone Edge and it sets up and Whirlwinds you away. The SpA lets it be a deadly mixed attacker to roflstomps most physical walls, and makes it more versatile than Ononokusu, who will always be physical and thus always be hard countered by Skarmory and such. Mence also has 100 Speed which might be the most important thing, since it won't have to switch out or die every time Scarf Flygon or Jirachi switches in (Ononokusu is easily revenged by these and even Mence himself because of that lame 97 speed). Theres a reason I compare Onono with 'Chomp and 'Mence, because Onono is fairly one- dimensional, and has to compete for a team slot with those two. I didn't bring up Kingdra or Flygon because they both have their own clear advantages in an excellent Water typing and STAB for Kingdra and U-turn and Levitate for Flygon which both make them different enough to function on their own and have their own identity (even though they were still overshadowed which Chomp/Mence were around), while Ononokusu's only remarkable traits are slightly higher attack and mold breaker, which helps with a total of 1 pokemon in OU right now (and Rotom I guess, but he's gone soon)
@Naxte : Your post is better at defending your point, but still a little wrong so I'll address it and Garchomp too. First off, I don't see what Ononokusu is hitting better than Garchomp (FYI Skarmory is still immune to Earthquake with Molder Breaker), except Bronzong who might not even be relevant 5th gen, and was still dealt with with Fire Fang. Fire Fang is huge- you beat Bronzong, Foretress and Skarm who lol at Ononokusu, as well as destroy Scizor and the new grass/ steel who will surely be lurking OU soon. And just so you know, Garchomp's STAB Earthquake hits much harder than Ononokusu's, and he's a ton bulkier and can actually switch in and take a hit. And again the speed thing is huge- Garchomp's trolly 102 spe lets it beat some would be revenge killer like Jirachi and 'Mence, which is especially important with a Scarf attatched.
Taunt is notable though, I'll give you that.
 
Umm, have you ever used Salamence before? SpA matters because Salamence relied on it to break its counters and it makes it a better dragon dancer, than Axe-Head dragon. Without Fire Blast, Salamence wouldn't be able get past some of the physical walls that counter it. You DD with Ononojusu and Skarmory comes in and laughs as you try to beat with non- STAB Stone Edge and it sets up and Whirlwinds you away. The SpA lets it be a deadly mixed attacker to roflstomps most physical walls, and makes it more versatile than Ononokusu, who will always be physical and thus always be hard countered by Skarmory and such. Mence also has 100 Speed which might be the most important thing, since it won't have to switch out or die every time Scarf Flygon or Jirachi switches in (Ononokusu is easily revenged by these and even Mence himself because of that lame 97 speed). Theres a reason I compare Onono with 'Chomp and 'Mence, because Onono is fairly one- dimensional, and has to compete for a team slot with those two. I didn't bring up Kingdra or Flygon because they both have their own clear advantages in an excellent Water typing and STAB for Kingdra and U-turn and Levitate for Flygon which both make them different enough to function on their own and have their own identity (even though they were still overshadowed which Chomp/Mence were around), while Ononokusu's only remarkable traits are slightly higher attack and mold breaker, which helps with a total of 1 pokemon in OU right now (and Rotom I guess, but he's gone soon)
@Naxte : Your post is better at defending your point, but still a little wrong so I'll address it and Garchomp too. First off, I don't see what Ononokusu is hitting better than Garchomp (FYI Skarmory is still immune to Earthquake with Molder Breaker), except Bronzong who might not even be relevant 5th gen, and was still dealt with with Fire Fang. Fire Fang is huge- you beat Bronzong, Foretress and Skarm who lol at Ononokusu, as well as destroy Scizor and the new grass/ steel who will surely be lurking OU soon. And just so you know, Garchomp's STAB Earthquake hits much harder than Ononokusu's, and he's a ton bulkier and can actually switch in and take a hit. And again the speed thing is huge- Garchomp's trolly 102 spe lets it beat some would be revenge killer like Jirachi and 'Mence, which is especially important with a Scarf attatched.
Taunt is notable though, I'll give you that.
Why mention skarmory whirlwinding/spiking on Ono when the last thing you mention is how Taunt is notable? It is one dimension, and so you compare it to a pokemon who has a much larger degree of options, i.e Mence? I've been playing mence since 3rd gen, and was forced to stop using him in OU when the new tiers set in place. I know damn well what Mence can, and will do, but your placing it up against a pokemon who can't compete with it's versatility. Of course you can claim that it's a better dragon dancer then Ono, but you obviously dont realize that Ono is still a good dragon dancer, and better then other dragon dancers. Lots of things can, and will wall it, but does that stop it from being a viable pokemon? NO it doesn't! It's not going to compete with a slot in a team over mence, or chomp because both can have there respected places!

You still aren't proving your facts behind why you continue to compare it with the other dragons. Your still trying to compare its ass of a SpAtk with Mence's. Your still trying to prove that it'll compete with a slot on a team with mence, when it wont for obvious reasons, and qouting, "it's one-dimensional". You also seemed to not realize that after pointing out Kingdra's, and Flygon's differences, that Ono has plenty of differences himself that also give him a branch of individuality:

Mold Breaker- Regardless of one pokemon as you so claim to be the only perk to having Mold Breaker, your forgeting the other assload of levitaters that have been introduced that will also probably compete in OU. And despite this, whats stopping others from playing pokemon outside of their specificied tiers? It sure as hell hasn't stopped various UU pokemon, and the likes to show their face in OU. What makes you think that'll change?

147 atk/ 97 spd isn't bad, it's a godsend for most- Those pokes that can't reach that higher amount of speed, let alone hope to possibly get even the slightest edge over 100 envy that spd. If Kingdra had 97 it would be alot more monsterous then it already is. If TTar had that spd, or Atk, it would be monsterous.

It's movepool allows it to have a niche, and it's niche will be a physical Sweeper- You CAN'T dispute it! It doesn't need a mixed-set. It doesn't want a mixed-set. And sure as hell doesn't give a rats-ass about Skarmory. that new grass/steel, yea, it's a pain in the ass, as it will be for several other pokemon. Is that going to stop it from sweeping other teams without it? Hell no!
 

Euphonos

inanod ng mga luha; damdamin ay lumaya.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
Ononokusu is the dragon that, if not voted for Ubers, can and will push Salamence and Garchomp back in OU, if I'm not mistaken.

One reason is that its Attack is very huge--huge for those two Pseudo-legendary Dragons to fight with, despite its Speed that makes him slightly slower than the former two.

Note: Ononokusu is not a Pseudo-Legendary Pokemon; its BST is 540...
 

haunter

Banned deucer.
I see no correlation between Ononokusu staying in OU and Salamence and Grachomp being unbanned. Firstly, the communis opinio is that Mence and Chomp are better overall sweepers\wall breakers than Ononokusu. Secondly, we're probably not going to ban Salamence and Garchomp in the early Gen V metagame, so if they're still broken will emerge from the actual metagame and won't be determined by theoretical comparisons.
 
Kusu can''t be compared to Chomp and Mence. Kusu has one monster stat, Dragon Dance and not much else. Mence and Garchomp were spectacular bulky wallbreakers.
 
Here's another possible set for him.

Ononokusu @Leftovers
Mold Breaker
Adamant
240 HP/64 Atk/204 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage/Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Taunt

This set might make a nice, and bulky Ono. It can atleast take more hits do to it having 353 HP. And it's attack stat wouldn't suffer much at all, still leaving him at a nice 380 atk stat as well. After two DD's he's able to outspeed pretty much everything, and all of it's possible counters. Even still, if it's counters are out the way it can possibly sweep most of things. It can also setup on Skarm with taunt, but wont be able to do significant damage to it until about 2-3 DD's. While this may sound bad, Skarmory will only be able to 3HKO it at most with brave Bird, which would slowly be making Ono's life easier. Here's some quick numbers against skarm:

Ono's +2 Outrage vs. Impish Skarm w/ 252 HP/252 Def= 35-41%
ONo's +3 Outrage vs. Impish Skarm w/ 252 HP/252 Def= 44-52%

It'll be able to atleast reach the plus two range, while plus is less likely. either way, Skarm starts taking hefty damage after the +3 marker, and anything coming in afterwards that doesn't outspeed it after +2 isn't going to be revenging it too well with out a priority move at best.
 
His standard set will probably be any set revolving around the usage of DD. In fact, the last slot can actually change his strategy around a good bit by giving him other types coverages, more setup fodder, etc. The choiced sets well see play as well probably, but to a lesser degree. More specifically, the Scarf version can be very powerful even without DD with the second strongest unboosted Outrage. Although the scarf set will have to deal with jirachi, and flygon as constant revenge killers against it, while the DD sets will only need an extra DD to stop the massacre.

The CB set is nice for sure, and could possibly work with dragon tail as well when it comes to prediction. By simply bringing in your CB Ono, and forcing a switch (as in not really being able to tell the possible set either). From there, you get a free hard as hell hitting Dragon Tail that forces the pokemon that was likely to be attempting to take it out or wall it, and live to see another day while finding out what your opponents counter to it is. Hell, even the dragon Dance sets could use that as a nice scouting tool.
 
Cool fact, Skarmory is 2HKOed by the Swords Dancer. Jolly +2 LO Outrage does 47.3% - 55.7% to max/max+ Skarmory, which is a 2HKO after SR and leftovers. Ononokusu can get Whirlwinded in between, he can run Taunt, but after that, the 2HKO isn't guaranteed.
 
As far as counters go, This pokemon may be the one who resurrects weavile from his steady decline since the early 4th gen. A new threat for dragons (specifically ono) will be Aianto, with a bug/steel typing, solid 112 defense and 109 base speed and attack, this guy could be a serious threat to ono.

If ono is sent to ubers, he will suffer. With relatively lackluster defences, and a base speed which falls 3 short of the mark, he will be tortured in ubers. Sure he outspeeds rayquaza, but either latias or latios will rip straight through his meager special defence, not to Garchomp can probably rip him apart aswell. Lets face it, ono is epic and an OU beast, but uber is a tier of fast furious dragons.
 
i really dont see the hype with this thing. It's freaking ugly, to say the least. It doesnt even look like a dragon... it's frail. It's not quite fast enough. It can MAYBE run a scarf set, but then becomes set up fodder (if it can manage a kill). IMO, outclassed by mence and chomp. Unless this thing somehow become a potent sweeper, it won't even get a test spot on my team. Sorry, OHNONO!! I just like the Hydra so much more...
 
For those of you saying that Onono is outclassed as a DD'er by Salamance, due to his bad Sp.Attack, bear in mind Onono has Mold Breaker, easeing prediction, and Rivalry, which, if the current 'everything is male' trend continues, Male Onono gets a free, choiceless Choice Band to abuse.

One DD will bring Max/Max Jolly Onono to 786 attack against a Male foe. He will also have 483 Speed, so he outspeeds everything without a Scarf.

With those stats, Onono dosen't NEED special attacks. With a Life Orb, after a DD and with a Rivalry boost, with Outrage Onono deals 165-195 damage to Skarmory, that's a 2HKO. And that's a one-turn set-up.

Either people need to start running Female Skarmorys, or else not much will hold DD Onono, except things like Jolly Scarfgon.

However, I do not think DD is going to be Onono's strongest set.

I think Choice Scarf will be.

Enough speed to outrun all non-scarfed pokemon? Check.

Enough power to clean late-game? Double Check, especially with Rivalry. [Hits 589.5 attack with Jolly with Rivalry active]

Good STAB to abuse? Of course, this is a Dragon type.

ScarfOnono will be the new Scarfchomp. Slightly slower, but when you outspeed all non-scarfed pokemon anyway... it's almost irrevlevent [Stupid Scarfgon]. And it hits a LOT harder.

Also, unless people start putting Female on things, Rivalry > Mold Breaker. Dragon will be Onono's primary mode of attack, not Earthquake, and there are no abilities which hamper Dragon-type attacks.

Oh, and, people.

76/90/70 defenses are NOT FRAIL. They're not stellar, but it's by no means going to fall over when poked either, especially by resisted attacks. Maybe in comparison with the other Dragons, but not in general for a sweeper. His bulk is comparable to Flygon's [80/80/80], and Flygon dosen't roll over when poked.
 
Choice Scarf will indeed be powerful, but the DD sets will be right up there with it for sure. Depending on the DD set, he'll only need one or two DD's to reach close to the same speed as the choiced set, as well as close to the power of the CB set. Rivalry will be interesting to see, but I guess that can factor in other things. IMO, Mold Breaker seems too useful to pass up, but I can see were rivalry wil have it's footing.
 
Complete TM list.

Learnable TMs: TM01 - Claw Sharpen, TM02 - Dragon Claw, TM05 - Roar, TM06 - Toxic, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM12 - Taunt, TM15 - Hyper Beam, TM17 - Protect, TM18 - Rain Dance, TM21 - Frustration, TM26 - Earthquake, TM27 - Return, TM28 - Dig, TM31 - Brick Break, TM32 - Double Team, TM39 - Rock Tomb, TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM42 - Facade, TM44 - Rest, TM45 - Attract, TM48 - Troll, TM52 - Focus Blast, TM54 - False Swipe, TM56 - Fling, TM59 - Complete Burn, TM65 - Shadow Claw, TM66 - Payback, TM68 - Giga Impact, TM75 - Swords Dance, TM78 - Smooth Over, TM80 - Rock Slide, TM81 - X-Scissor, TM82 - Dragon Tail, TM84 - Poison Jab, TM86 - Grass Knot, TM87 - Swagger, TM90 - Substitute, TM94 - Rock Smash, HM01 - Cut, HM03 - Surf, HM04 - Strength


Source: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2992559&postcount=1
 
Complete TM list.

Learnable TMs: TM01 - Claw Sharpen, TM02 - Dragon Claw, TM05 - Roar, TM06 - Toxic, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM12 - Taunt, TM15 - Hyper Beam, TM17 - Protect, TM18 - Rain Dance, TM21 - Frustration, TM26 - Earthquake, TM27 - Return, TM28 - Dig, TM31 - Brick Break, TM32 - Double Team, TM39 - Rock Tomb, TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM42 - Facade, TM44 - Rest, TM45 - Attract, TM48 - Troll, TM52 - Focus Blast, TM54 - False Swipe, TM56 - Fling, TM59 - Complete Burn, TM65 - Shadow Claw, TM66 - Payback, TM68 - Giga Impact, TM75 - Swords Dance, TM78 - Smooth Over, TM80 - Rock Slide, TM81 - X-Scissor, TM82 - Dragon Tail, TM84 - Poison Jab, TM86 - Grass Knot, TM87 - Swagger, TM90 - Substitute, TM94 - Rock Smash, HM01 - Cut, HM03 - Surf, HM04 - Strength


Source: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2992559&postcount=1

Choice Scarf set I think will love Brick Break. I still believe that CB set can us Dragon tail as a means of scouting about his possible counters. Especially if they come in and take a whooping hit from it (not including possile entry hazards), and be forced to take another beating for it again next time.
 
So he is GOING to be great, we know that already, so lets start thinking up some counters (Skarm doesn't really work on the SD or DD sets because of taunt.). I can't really think of anything that can switch in (Barring lugia in ubers) easily, but there are plenty of things like scarfchomp, scarf starmie, and Life Orb Deoxys-S (Assuming it will not be banned at the start) who can revenge it reliably.
 
So he is GOING to be great, we know that already, so lets start thinking up some counters (Skarm doesn't really work on the SD or DD sets because of taunt.). I can't really think of anything that can switch in (Barring lugia in ubers) easily, but there are plenty of things like scarfchomp, scarf starmie, and Life Orb Deoxys-S (Assuming it will not be banned at the start) who can revenge it reliably.
Ono with two DD's up it's sleaves on any set wont be revenged by any scarfers. With just one DD, anything that can reliably hit over 97 speed can and will revenge it, i.e. Scarfed Flygon, Chomp, Mence, Sazando, Starmie, Jirachi, Jolteon with HP Ice, etc. Some of the newer walls will cause it trouble such as Neeti or what ever it's called (grass/steel), that wont mind setuping up hazards on it while taking very little damage. Although, it's in the same case with Skarm in which on can make it easy setup fodder with Taunt. Scizor has a chance to revenge it with bullet punch if it's health is low enough, but those EQ's are going to hurt. Latias wont mind checking him, bar DD boost.
 
Smogon banned salamence because it had no true counter, you really think they're not gonna ban this thing?
Hello this is 5th gen, you can't base it off 4th gen. Techniclly not even Mence is banned in this metagame till its proven broken.
 
it wont matter because I ran calcs on what it does have:

Adamant Ono@ Lefties w/ +1 Earthquake vs. impish Natto 252 def/252 hp= 33.5%- 39.2%

Ada Ono@ Lefties w/ +2 EQ vs imp Natto 252 def/252 hp= deals 44.3-52.3% to it.

Dont forget, Natto becomes setup bait for Ono with taunt xD
 
Cherubi, Scarfed Ditto instantly rends almost any attacker now [Although, Ditto better pray Onono isn't Scarfed himself, or uses DD as it switches in, else, it comes to a Speed Tie]
 
Umm, have you ever used Salamence before? SpA matters because Salamence relied on it to break its counters and it makes it a better dragon dancer, than Axe-Head dragon. Without Fire Blast, Salamence wouldn't be able get past some of the physical walls that counter it. You DD with Ononojusu and Skarmory comes in and laughs as you try to beat with non- STAB Stone Edge and it sets up and Whirlwinds you away. The SpA lets it be a deadly mixed attacker to roflstomps most physical walls, and makes it more versatile than Ononokusu, who will always be physical and thus always be hard countered by Skarmory and such. Mence also has 100 Speed which might be the most important thing, since it won't have to switch out or die every time Scarf Flygon or Jirachi switches in (Ononokusu is easily revenged by these and even Mence himself because of that lame 97 speed). Theres a reason I compare Onono with 'Chomp and 'Mence, because Onono is fairly one- dimensional, and has to compete for a team slot with those two. I didn't bring up Kingdra or Flygon because they both have their own clear advantages in an excellent Water typing and STAB for Kingdra and U-turn and Levitate for Flygon which both make them different enough to function on their own and have their own identity (even though they were still overshadowed which Chomp/Mence were around), while Ononokusu's only remarkable traits are slightly higher attack and mold breaker, which helps with a total of 1 pokemon in OU right now (and Rotom I guess, but he's gone soon)
@Naxte : Your post is better at defending your point, but still a little wrong so I'll address it and Garchomp too. First off, I don't see what Ononokusu is hitting better than Garchomp (FYI Skarmory is still immune to Earthquake with Molder Breaker), except Bronzong who might not even be relevant 5th gen, and was still dealt with with Fire Fang. Fire Fang is huge- you beat Bronzong, Foretress and Skarm who lol at Ononokusu, as well as destroy Scizor and the new grass/ steel who will surely be lurking OU soon. And just so you know, Garchomp's STAB Earthquake hits much harder than Ononokusu's, and he's a ton bulkier and can actually switch in and take a hit. And again the speed thing is huge- Garchomp's trolly 102 spe lets it beat some would be revenge killer like Jirachi and 'Mence, which is especially important with a Scarf attatched.
Taunt is notable though, I'll give you that.
You both have very valid points.

I see it as they are both equal oppurtunists. Garchomp and Salamence can destroy walls, this thing has Taunt, can stop Skarmory's whirlwind, G and S both are faster, they both have a "bulkiness to them", Ono is more powerful and has no quad weakness to ice, and can work around Skarmory i.e. Magnezone, etc, and quite honestly, it's funny to see it get overhyped, then see people say it sucks in comparison to Garchomp and Salamence, who apparently does the job better.

But then people are gonna get swept by it, because people underestimate it of course.

Also, creating paragraphs and separating huge walls of text makes it easier to read your guys' theories better. It also makes sure our eyes are happy and strain-free :)
 

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