CAP 10 Krilowatt Playtesting

It's true if you just make a team and use Krillowatt, you'll likely be using a sweeping/revenge killing variant. But, if your team has problems only Krillowatt can solve, only then will it start to fit the concept. Krillowatt can solve a lot of problems, a bit too many, and may be added on just for the sake of the top threats it can KO.

so far, i gotta say, life orb krilowatt kicks butt. Outspeeds base 100s and still hase bulk. Magic gaurd is awesome.
Surprised im the only one using celebi, as he resists both grass and ground, has recover to keep coming in, and can beat slow krilowatt with leaf storm
first post FTW!
X-scissor can stop Celebi, by the way.
 
My favorite version of Krilowatt so far has been a lure set I created to help my team beat Swampert, making it easier for Mence to sweep. It's a standard 4 attacks Life Orb set, but with Hidden Power Grass as the final attack. It is actually surprisingly effective, as it can also check foe Krilowatt thanks to the bulk I invested in LureWatt.
 
I find a lot of people are using Gimmicks and Breloom (who isnt a gimmick just annoying).
Are people experimenting or do are people trying to use things that Krillowatt wouldn't counter?
 
I haven't been able to playtest Krill, so if my question has an obvious answer then humor me.

Why is Sceptile a problem? Isn't he UU?
I don't think the problem was ever that Sceptile was overwhelming the metagame, but rather that the fact that it was common was a sign that Krilowatt had really shaken things up, by bringing a UU out of obscurity. I personally don't think Sceptile's presence means that Kril is over-centralizing, but I think that was the argument.
 

SoT

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I find a lot of people are using Gimmicks and Breloom (who isnt a gimmick just annoying).
Are people experimenting or do are people trying to use things that Krillowatt wouldn't counter?
More or less experimenting, trying to see how certain pokemon do against krillo I would assume.
 
soo much parahax today....
Confuse ray-T-wave Krill is very annoying.
Counter Blissey is working nicely. Salamence can't touch this.
Evervone (including me) is using Machamps (BEEJ i blame you).
 
damn people stop using parafusion krilowatt or i will find you and kill you.

P.S. - Celebi still rocking, sub krilowatt is awesome, (best set easy imo) sursprised at all the skarm even though krilowatt comes in basically for free since he takes no spikes dame and can begin firing off t-bolts (or set up a sub to protect against things like scarf celebi...which now exist apparently) and teams ar estill so agility weak since people are oh so happy to switch krilowatt into resisted attacks until he is in KO range for earthqiake.
 
Krillowatt has basically replaced Lanturn on my Hax team (from a long time ago which got me to 1500 in OU. I did ParaFusion abuse before it was cool :P).

The overall package is almost overwhelming but badly suffers from 4 move slot syndrome. If you don't pack just the right move and got for generic coverage instead, Krillowatt with LO is just shy of being dominant functioning as a good cleaner; but with the right move, you kill whatever you can but can't ever clean up a battle.

Basically, Krillowatt does fulfill the concept but also functions very well, if not better, as a general threat. Possibly the most strong + versatile CAP yet without being broken.
 

Bad Ass

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I am enjoying this metagame so far. As of now, I've used two teams; offense and stall. Stall is pretty damn sexy since all the stuff that normally troubles it is taken care of by 330 speed Krilowatt (salamence, lucario, gyarados, etc). With all the ScarfTar running around, Skarmory can spike like nobody's business. Krilowatt isn't a threat since, although it comes in for free on Skarmory, Skarm is getting up a layer on the switch, and Krilowatt isn't getting past Blissey without sacrificing a shit ton of speed or special attack. I actually like Magic Guard > Trace on my defensive set. It could probably use Trace a lot more, but with me investing so heavily in speed I really need all the help I can get defensively, and not losing 12% a turn from rocks and sandstorm after leftovers is a sweet gig. I also need to have that 330 speed...too useful.

Most offense I've seen have one or two Kril checks that are forced to heal, lest they succumb next time they come in to it. Stuff like Celebi, Latias, Shaymin, etc. My favorite way to deal with Life Orb Kril is to use max attack / hp snorlax with earthquake. It handily deals with Latias, Heatran, Kril, and pretty much every special attacker while hitting decently hard. A good pair is LO Kril + Mixmence. Kril is already running through most offense with few exceptions, and Mixmence just adds to that. Try eating his attacks after you have already dealt with a Mixmence. All those Scarftars are trying to Earthquake it for a 2hko, well how about a free switch in. I like old Mixmence with max speed, but whatever works. Another way to beat Krilowatt is to just outspeed and overpower it. SD Infernape, Life Orb Gengar, Life Orb Latias, and all those things in that area are really good at forcing it out and getting a free hit. Unfortunately who cares if it switches out because MAGIC GUARD!!! oh yea earth power FOREVER! Meh, that's my two cents.
 
So far I haven't had much trouble with the Krill, maybe just lucky. The way I see it is, there are so many different types, I've started putting Substitute everywhere just so I can scout. Once you know roughly what type of set its carrying, its not difficult.
 
ive noticed that lo starmie does a really good job luring out most of lo kril's counters and getting them into ko range/killing them/at least revealing what the opponents counter is
 
Krilowatt @ Life Orb
[Magic Guard]
Jolly
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
- Heart Swap
- Swagger
- Thunderpunch
- Waterfall/Icepunch

This swagger-swap variant(what I am calling it) is an absolute monster if you can get the heart swap... It forces switches like crazy and is a a check on any almost agility/swords dance/dragon dance pokemon that doesn't run earthquake. It is also a strong blissey counter dealing around 75% with a +2 waterfall.

Stealth rock and/or spikes support is a huge plus because of all of the switches swagger forces. Anyone have any critiques/comments/suggestions?
 

Destiny Warrior

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Well, in the limited playtesting I've done, the only results I've seen are Krilowatt massively haxxing Rotom-A with flinches on nearly every Waterfall.


Physical Krilowatt is doing well, though it has some trouble with Mence.
 

Deck Knight

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The "WobbuWatt" set is still doing wonders. Upon suggestion I've swapped out Toxic with Thunderbolt and it works quite well. Non-boosting Ground types can't KO with Earthquake, and using weaker moves or trying to set something else up only works for so long. Combined with Toxic Spikes its a fearsome defense mechanism. The fact it can revenge kill +1 Outrage from Mence with Counter is a huge bonus, and immunity to hazards and weather does as advertised, allowing it to Rest up to full health even after taking an attack from 33%-ish. It needs TSpikes and Clerical support to be truly menacing, but it forces the opponent's team to play around it for almost an entire match, even resorting to switching repeatedly to win a stall war. Its resistances also mean the most popular Hidden Powers hit for NVE damage, so trying to weaken Krilowatt with them is fairly pointless.

"The most annoying Jirachi in the world" is dead stopped by Wobbuwatt. Neither Iron Head nor Fire Punch can overcome its Leftovers recovery, Thunder Wave can't full para it a random Burn doesn't deplete its HP, and Krillowatt can easily stall it out. Only an odd Ice Punch on the set freeze can do anything to it.

With Tbolt over Toxic its less able to deal with non-Restalk sweepers like CM Latias, but it always stops Gyarados dead in its tracks and can overcome almost everything else through attrition. Its a bonus when Skarm Whirlwinds it in since it forces Skarmory out immediately or Tbolt will KO.

Incidentally we don't have the Magic Guard fix on the CAP Server (Krillowatt can be fully paralyzed) and Recycle still isn't implemented. Mirror Coat also apparently sends back attacks used with Sleep Talk. The full paralysis actually makes the set less effective than it should be (unless you think getting free para turns conducive to stalling is a bonus).
 
Alright, seeing as most people are finding LO Krilo overpowered, I'll put some damage calculations of Grass types here.

Sceptile :
Choice Special Sceptile Leaf Storm VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 170.7% - 200.9%
Choice Special Sceptile Energy Ball VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 98% - 115.6%

Subseed Sceptile Energy Ball VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 54.2% - 64.1%
Subseed Sceptile Leaf Blade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 44.7% - 52.8%

Swords Dance Sceptile Leaf Blade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 65% - 76.3%
Swords Dance Sceptile +2 Leaf Blade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 129.1% - 152.1%

SubLiechi Sceptile Leaf Blade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 65% - 76.3%

Mixtile Sceptile Leaf Storm VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 127.8% - 150.8%
Mixtile Sceptile Leaf Blade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 84% - 98.9%

Leafeon :
Baton Pass Leafeon Leaf Blade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 70.9% - 84%
Baton Pass Leafeon +2 Leaf Blade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 141.3% - 167%

Swords Dance Leafeon Leaf Blade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 99.3% - 117.8%
Swords Dance Leafeon +2 Leaf Blade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 199.1% - 234.8%

Subsalac Leafeon Leaf Blade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 84% - 99.3%

Wish Support Leafeon Leaf Blade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 61.4% - 73.1%

Tangrowth :
KIOMRH* Tangrowth Power Whip VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 75.8% - 89.4%

Double Powder Tangrowth Power Whip VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 68.2% - 80.4%

Mixed Mojonbo Tangrowth Power Whip VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 119.2% - 140.9%

Choice Specs Tangrowth Leaf Storm VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 191.4% - 225.3%

Swords Dance Tangrowth Power Whip VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 135.9% - 160.3%
Swords Dance Tangrowth +2 Power Whip VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 272.2% - 321%

*Knock It Off, Mojonbo Rules Here

Celebi (Very large) :
Defensive Celebi Grass Knot VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 25.7% - 30.2%
Defensive Celebi Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 37.5% - 44.2%

Cleric Celebi Psychic VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 28% - 33.2%
Cleric Celebi Grass Knot VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 25.7% - 30.2%

Lead Celebi Leaf Storm VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 121% - 142.7%
Lead Celebi Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 51.9% - 61.4%

Tinkerbell Celebi Leaf Storm VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 157.1% - 184.7%
Tinkerbell Celebi Psychic VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 50.1% - 59.1%

Calm Mind Passer Celebi Grass Knot VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 25.7% - 30.2%
Calm Mind Passer Celebi Psychic VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 28% - 33.2%
Calm Mind Passer Celebi +1 Grass Knot VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 37.9% - 44.7%
Calm Mind Passer Celebi +1 Psychic VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 42% - 49.7%
Calm Mind Passer Celebi +2 Grass Knot VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 50.1% - 59.6%
Calm Mind Passer Celebi +2 Psychic VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 55.8% - 65.9%

Physical Baton Pass Celebi Seed Bomb VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 54.6% - 65%
Physical Baton Pass Celebi +2 Seed Bomb VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 109.7% - 129.1%

Choice Specs Celebi Leaf Storm VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 181.5% - 214%
Choice Specs Celebi Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 78.1% - 92.1%

Choice Scarf Celebi Leaf Storm VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 111.1% - 130.5%
Choice Scarf Celebi Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 47.4% - 56%

Offensive CM Celebi Grass Knot VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 41.1% - 48.8%
Offensive CM Celebi Psychic VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 46% - 54.4%
Offensive CM Celebi Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 61.4% - 72.7%
Offensive CM Celebi +1 Grass Knot VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 60.9% - 72.2%
Offensive CM Celebi +1 Psychic VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 69.1% - 81.5%
Offensive CM Celebi +1 Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 92.1% - 108.8%
Offensive CM Celebi +2 Grass Knot VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 82.6% - 97.5%
Offensive CM Celebi +2 Psychic VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 92.1% - 108.6%
Offensive CM Celebi +2 Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 122.8% - 144.9%

Subseed Celebi Psychic VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 30.5% - 36.1%

MLSACM* Celebi Psychic VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 28% - 33.2%
MLSACM Celebi Grass Knot VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 25.7% - 30.2%

Perish Song Celebi Grass Knot VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 25.7% - 30.2%

Life Orb Sweeper Celebi Leaf Storm VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 143.6% - 169.3%
Life Orb Sweeper Celebi Psychic VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 46% - 54.4%
Life Orb Sweeper Celebi Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 61.4% - 72.7%

Trick Orb Celebi Psychic VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 28% - 33.2%

*More Leech Seed and Calm Mind

Breloom :
Spore Puncher Breloom Focus Punch VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 78.6% - 92.8%
Spore Puncher Breloom Seed Bomb VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 84% - 99.3%

Subseed Breloom Focus Punch VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 59.1% - 69.8%

NonChoice Attacker Breloom Seed Bomb VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 76.3% - 90.7%
NonChoice Attacker Breloom Superpower VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 57.6% - 67.7%
NonChoice Attacker Breloom Facade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 44.7% - 52.6%

Swords Dance Breloom Mach Punch VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 27.3% - 32.5%
Swords Dance Breloom Seed Bomb VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 109.7% - 129.1%
Swords Dance Breloom Facade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 63.7% - 74.9%
Swords Dance Breloom +2 Mach Punch VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 54.9% - 64.6%
Swords Dance Breloom +2 Seed Bomb VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 218.1% - 256.4%
Swords Dance Breloom +2 Facade VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 127.3% - 149.9%

Choice Scarf Breloom Seed Bomb VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 76.3% - 90.7%
Choice SCarf Breloom Superpower VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 57.6% - 67.7%

Choice Band Breloom Mach Punch VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 31.8% - 37.5%
Choice Band Breloom Seed Bomb VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 126.4% - 149%
Choice Band Breloom Superpower VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 94.4% - 111.3%

Shaymin :
Choice Specs Shaymin Seed Flare VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 155.8% - 183.3%
Choice Specs Shaymin Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 78.1% - 92.1%

Sweeping Shaymin Seed Flare VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 122.3% - 144.9%
Sweeping Shaymin Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 61.4% - 72.7%

Support Shaymin Seed Flare VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 74.9% - 88.5%

Subseed Shaymin Seed Flare VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 74.9% - 88.5%

Choice Scarf Shaymin Seed Flare VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 94.8% - 111.5%
Choice Scarf Shaymin Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 47.4% - 56%

Growth Sweeper Shaymin Seed Flare VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 122.3% - 144.9%
Growth Sweeper Shaymin Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 61.4% - 72.7%
Growth Sweeper Shaymin +1 Seed Flare VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 184.2% - 217.2%
Growth Sweeper Shaymin +1 Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 92.1% - 108.8%
Growth Sweeper Shaymin +2 Seed Flare VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 245.1% - 288.9%
Growth Sweeper Shaymin +2 Earth Power VS LO Modest Krilowatt : 122.8% - 144.9%

Hope it's useful!
 

shrang

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LO Krilo would normally run Timid, so only Sceptile and Scarfed Pokes in that list can outspeed Krilo. Anything else (I think) would be OHKO'd by Overheat or very close to it (Only Celebi and Shaymin can survive sometimes if they're running 0 HP/0 SpD). Scarf Celebi virtually never exists, and Scarf Shaymin is not guaranteed to OHKO Krilo with Seed Flare without prior damage (SR does not matter, since Magic Guard laughs at it).
 
So far I haven't had much trouble with the Krill, maybe just lucky. The way I see it is, there are so many different types, I've started putting Substitute everywhere just so I can scout. Once you know roughly what type of set its carrying, its not difficult.
The way you said that reminded me of the Kryll, those bat things from Gears of War that swarm over you and kill you in two seconds if you take a wrong step. Pretty apt metaphor for Krilowatt himself, actually. :naughty:

I'm having a lot of fun in the playtesting. I feel like Krilowatt is more "Utility" than "Utility Counter" but it's cool to see how he's shifted the metagame. I've been using a Standard LO Krilowatt attacker with Overheat and I've found MixApe to be a very good partner for him, as he handles a lot of Krilowatt's counters quite nicely. He's pretty fragile though, so Rapid Spin and Wish support are useful. I've considered giving him more attack EVs and Lum Berry so he can take statuses from Blissey on the switch and still OHKO her with Close Combat, but I never ended up doing it. The team I'm using is based around Spikes, so Blissey's usually in KO range anyway.
 
LO Krilo would normally run Timid, so only Sceptile and Scarfed Pokes in that list can outspeed Krilo. Anything else (I think) would be OHKO'd by Overheat or very close to it (Only Celebi and Shaymin can survive sometimes if they're running 0 HP/0 SpD). Scarf Celebi virtually never exists, and Scarf Shaymin is not guaranteed to OHKO Krilo with Seed Flare without prior damage (SR does not matter, since Magic Guard laughs at it).
Just got another one, Dugtrio. CB Dugtrio with max Attack, Jolly, and max Speed can deal 103.4% - 122.3% to LO Krilo with Earthquake. Because almost every Krilo has Thunderbolt, Dugtrio shouldn't have too much trouble switching in. Dugtrio can also get supported by Gyarados who lures Electric attacks, but two slots is just too much to counter a single Pokemon, and Dugtrio alone is good too. The slot isn't really that wasted either, because Dugtrio is quite a threat to things such as Blissey, Lucario lacking ESpeed, etc. Also, I don't see too much Overheat Krilowatts. Most Krilo's I've seen prefer Ice Beam to kill Grass types and don't really have anything other than Surf and Thunderbolt to kill Steels. Still, I'm never going to send out a Steel type against Krilo unless I want to lure an Overheat.

@Deck Knight : Haven't tried yet, but don't you think "Wobbuwatt" will have trouble due to the insane prediction wars involved with Pokemon that can use setup moves?
 
Krillowatt has basically replaced Lanturn on my Hax team (from a long time ago which got me to 1500 in OU. I did ParaFusion abuse before it was cool :P).

The overall package is almost overwhelming but badly suffers from 4 move slot syndrome. If you don't pack just the right move and got for generic coverage instead, Krillowatt with LO is just shy of being dominant functioning as a good cleaner; but with the right move, you kill whatever you can but can't ever clean up a battle.

Basically, Krillowatt does fulfill the concept but also functions very well, if not better, as a general threat. Possibly the most strong + versatile CAP yet without being broken.
Those two statements cannot be possible at the same time. If Krillowatt is bale to be a general threat, then it has failed in it's concept of being a Ultility counter, not a sweeper.
 

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Incidentally we don't have the Magic Guard fix on the CAP Server (Krillowatt can be fully paralyzed) and Recycle still isn't implemented. Mirror Coat also apparently sends back attacks used with Sleep Talk. The full paralysis actually makes the set less effective than it should be (unless you think getting free para turns conducive to stalling is a bonus).
I don't know why the CAP server did not have the Magic Guard fix, but I have resolved that issue by updating CAP to the latest and greatest code base.

Recycle is not implemented and is not likely going to be implemented any time soon in Shoddy 1. Mirror Coat is not going to be fixed either.

Almost all my programming time and effort is going into the new battle simulator, so you'll have to live with the limitations of the current version of Shoddy Battle.
 
Those two statements cannot be possible at the same time. If Krillowatt is bale to be a general threat, then it has failed in it's concept of being a Ultility counter, not a sweeper.
Well, I mean that it does fill the role of tailorable counter to a tee but it's probably more easy to use in a general role overall since he can fit on teams very well and fill a variety of roles, which is inherent in being customizable. It's almost a catch 22 I think.
 
Krilowatt really doesn't fail against much of anything. It gets walled by certain Pokemon like sweepers do, but it can be pretty bold about taking on other sweepers, as it has the massive bulk to take a hit or two from them.

We may have made Krilowatt useful, no denying that, I just can't help but feel we've lost the spirit of its intended use and are just hopping onto the bandwagon of what it does now. :/
but still krill does what it is supposed too, the fact that it can also sweep means he is a good all around pokemon, colossoil´s original idea was to stop the secondary cold, but he can still sweep
 
It does not do what it's supposed to, it does much more.

Concept:
Originally Posted by Fat reachzero
Name: Utility Counter
General Description: This Pokemon is capable of being customized to counter virtually any specific Pokemon, but is incapable of countering a large number of Pokemon at the same time.
Justification: It is not unusual for people to say that "versatility is broken" from an offensive standpoint; less attention is given to versatile defensive Pokemon such as Zapdos or Hariyama. This Pokemon would allow us to study the impact of having a Pokemon that is capable of dealing with such varied threats as Salamence, Lucario, and Gengar....but not all at once.
I bolded the two important parts in the quote. To be honest, if the concept was:
"This CAP can counter just about anything, and large portion of the metagame in just one set", we would've succeeded. But, if that was the proposed concept, I don't think it even would've been picked, since that would be a concept that would just require good stats and movepool and be done with it.
No, the part that actually made the concept special, and gave us something really intriguing to work with, was the "but not all at once" part. That part totally failed.
Fact: My Magic Guard LO Krill took on Mence, Gengar and Metagross (not Luke, but close enough), all at once, with Ice Beam, Surf and Overheat respectively, in contrast to the pokemon specifically mentioned in the concept.

Don't get me wrong, I like Krill. In the few matches I had with him, I totally enjoyed it's capabilities. It's very strong on both offenses and defenses and in most matches, it takes out at least 2 members of the opposing team if played right. As a competitive pokemon, it's a job well done!
However, on the concept part, I'd like to say it utterly failed. The easy way was taken out, and, just as with a previous caps, the actual goal was only somewhat met, but it's capabilities to sweep are much much more apparant. (Krill, Collosoil)
I'd even go as far as saying that we may have learned a bit in making this CAP through good discussion, but the thing we really really could've learned a lot from, was thinking more about how the "but not all at once" part could've been met. I feel there has been way too less emphasis on this part, even though this really could've brought up incredibly interesting discussion and decisions, even if it would've resulted in a subpar pokemon, that would only function as a niche product. At least we would've learned a lot on carefully tweaking a pokemon.
 

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