Good luck brought up a bunch of stuff I wanted to touch on: I agree with you in that foongus is more of a B rank than an A rank, but I'd like to clarify somethings, specifically that bulasaurs "higher defense" does not manifest itself in a higher stat, but rather less EV's past the initial investment. I bolded that because what i means is that unless you're making a dedicated defensive set, the higher defense is negligable. Ironically, a dedicated defensive set (ie Subseed, double powder etc) is out classed by Foongus (who, despite his terrible speed and lower SpD has access to both Spore and Regenerator which makes him more reliable as a status inducer and more resilient as a wall) and cottonee (who i think could make a really good sand check cause of prankster stun spore). So I think Foongus can chill in B but bulbasaur should definetly be pushed to C. it's most viable set is its Scarf set on the site. It's just out classed by other mons in mostly everything else. It has access to Swords Dance, but so does Totodile who has an arguably better Stab and an Amazing ability in the form of Sheer force as well as priority. It has growth to make mixed sweeping in sun a possibility (thanks to Chlorophyll) but Sunny Day teams themselves require a lot of team support and again the sets out classed by Bellsprout who has a *MUCH* higher physical attack and its lower speed is nulled because it'll still outspeed the world in sun. TBH even it's scarf set is beat out by Snover, but it does have access to Sleep powder which is a big deal, and a fast sleep can swing games. Being one of the few fast sleepers is enough for a C teir's "notable niche, lots of support". Edit: I forgot Sheer Force Totodile is illegal, so the ability argument is null. Plus Dile is better at DDing iirc. SD bulba is still out classed though, cause Bellsprout shares bulbasaur's typing and has a much higher attack. like 2-3 points higher depending on nature. Also on the whole, SDing is generally inferior to DDing because of the lack of a speed boost: arguably the most important stat boost in LC cause of how close the speed teirs are, so anything that DD's with a half way decent coverage performs better than SD bulbasaur Bronzor has always been a contriversial mon if memory serves. It walls the world for the first few turns but cant do much in the late game. I think it definitely belongs in the B-C range, but I'm probably going to sit on my hands until more qualified player makes their opinion on the mon known I'm with Corkscew on this, I think Magnemite is a B mon. Mag is an interesting pokemon because you never put one on your team and say "this will do something unpredictable at a time." If you're running Magnemite, it's role in life is killing steels. If your team is weak to steel walls, you slap on a magnemite and call it a night. It's a mon that supports your team and doesnt really ask for much in return, "hey please dont switch me into an EQ, k?" I'd agree with you on an A if it wasnt crippled by its slow speed w/o scarf. Yeah; this. I couldnt have said it better myself. Also, Gengen, why you gotta hate on Baby Pringles? My biggest complaint with using Houndour is the very reason I always want to use him: His typing. Offensively, like you said, Dark Fire is *AMAZING* nigh perfect coverage, (resisted by Dieno and other houndour and the banned Carvanha), access to strong priority (120 Base with stab) in Sucker Punch etc. Defensively it blows. It's weak to the 3 most common attacking types in Ground Water and Fighting, two of which have priority attacks, and is also weak to Rock. I was originally pushing for C on houndour; but you made a really good point with the "cant be burned" and snover counter, and mostly it's roll as a wallbreaker more so than the teams dedicated sweeper. I'll agree with houndour at B Sub edit: I thoguht of this after i posted; and figured i should just edit it in instead of Double posting. Zorua for C Illusion is a much better ability than is given credit and zorua is no slouch offensively, boasting 65/80/65 offensive stats. Houndour for comparison's sake has 60/80/65. The 5 extra Base attack does grant Zorua an extra stat. Unfortunately Zorua has a bunch of things working against it. Unlike Houndour, it lacks a Strong secondary STAB. It's weak to fighting and just misses the 18 speed teir to reliabley outspeed non boosted scraggy and mienfoo; though even if it did I'm not sure what it could hit with that would justify staying in. Zorua definitely has a lot of ways to get around these flaws: it makes up its lack of a secondary stab with a wide offensive move pool, and illusion to trick opponents into switching and keeping fighters out. All in all though, i dont think it can really compete with houndour offensively, and if you're looking to Zorua for a defensive pokemon chances are you already moved on.