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Little Cup's New and "Creative" Moveset Thread - Mark 1

Discussion in 'Little Cup' started by Fuzznip, Sep 13, 2009.

  1. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    May 29, 2008
    Chilan Berry is for taking Fake Outs, since Inner Focus lets it not be flinched, but it still takes assloads of damage regardless.

    I love the idea of the set, and I think it would probably work pretty well. I've always been a fan of Abra and its absurd special offense, but I could never figure out a way to viably use it.
  2. Sledge


    Oct 10, 2009
    Bonsly@Oran Berry
    ~Rock Slide
    ~Sucker Punch

    Bonsly has great attack reaching 18 with the ev's and nature given. The main problem with bonsly is it's god-awful speed, only being faster than Munchlax. Rock Slide is it's best STAB and will really hurt coming off 18 attack. Protect is invalulable for scouting and can help you decide to swithc/sucker punch etc. Explosion is great for when your at low health and can only endure one more hit, raping everything but ghosts. Sucker Punch is the main feature of this set giving it precious priority to make up for it's horrendous speed.
  3. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    May 29, 2008
    Bonsly's real issue is being absolutely outclassed by Geodude, which has pretty much better everything. Since it also gained Sucker Punch in Platinum, Bonsly lost its only real advantage.

    I guess if you REALLY hate being ground-type Bonsly is usable. However, Geodude has Earthquake, Stone Edge, and various other awesome stuff that makes it significantly better than Bonsly.
  4. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

    Aug 14, 2009

    Name: Riolead @ focus sash

    Evs:36 atk/36 def/196 spd/236 sp atk
    hasty nature/inner focus

    -Hi Jump Kick
    -Shadow Claw
    -Quick Attack/Bullet Punch/Vacuum Wave
    -Ice Punch/Blaze Kick/Thunder Punch

    What really makes Riolu a great lead is inner focus. It prevents it from being flinched so it doesn't have to run Protect like diglett, Voltorb or Snover and so can use its four moveslots at their full potential.

    Vacuum Wave, Quick Attack and Bullet punch are all good priority moves to make Riolu a good revenge killer late-game. Vacuum Wave gets STAB, Quick Attack is always good and Bullet Punch is great for revenge-killing Missy and Gastly which are immune to your other priority attacks. If You are using Bullet Punch (be wary though, it doesn't get STAB from it, unlike Lucario) or Quick Attack, be sure to remove the EVs in sp atk and put them into Atk and run a jolly nature.

    Hi Jump Kick and Shadow Claw are good for power and great for coverage. Shadow Claw is chosen over Crunch because of all the Croagunks found in LC.

    Ice Punch, Blaze Kick and Thunder Punch are listed to take down specific foes. Ice punch is for Dragons and Gligar, Blaze Kick for Bronzor (although Hi Jump Kick has a chance to 2HKO or 3HKO with or without Oran Berry respectively) and thunder punch for Mantyke and random Water-Types.
    Ice Punch is generally the best choice but feel free to use the move that is the most effective for your team.
  5. Sledge


    Oct 10, 2009
    I've used a riolu lead quite frequently but with a different set.

    Riolu @ Focus Sash
    Inner Focus
    ~Cross Chop
    ~Quick Attack
    ~Ice Punch
    36 hp/36 def/196 atk/196 spe/36 spd

    What it does to the top 10 leads (based of sept. stats):
    Meowth:Laugh in their face if they fake out while you cross chop them, they hold on if they're sashed and then you finish them with QA
    Kabuto:Cross chop, quick attack
    Onix:Cross chop, quick attack
    Bronzor: Cross chop takes out ~half of bronzor's health (Max/Max neutral) and can 2HKO very rarely and can turn into a 4HKO via oran, better to switch to a more solid counter in that case
    Digglet: Ice punch, quick attack, of course the do get rocks up, but that is impossible for any lead to stop without being comletely devoted to it
    Phanpy: Riolu has a 64% chance to 2HKO with two succesive ice punches (standard impish) and if that is the case can come out unharmed but cant stop the rocks
    Voltorb: Cross chop as they make it rain and then finish with QA
    Anorith: Guarenteed 2HKO w/cross chop even if a max/max impish
    Hippotas: Has trouble given max defenses yadayada ice punch doesnt do very much
    Snover: (not top 10 but deserves mention due to boom in popularity) Cross chop is a OHKO

    Payback is for ghosts who think they can switch in on a Cross Chop/QA and completely ruin their day. Riolu's main problem is having max 16 speed, but much of the time it can find ways to work around it. And being so slow, it can even power up payback making it an even better choice. Some of the damages dealt by riolu may look unimpressive, but on most of them I was assuming a worst-case-scenerio. note: i have not tested this particular set w/ice punch, I used to use blaze kick instead, but looking it over ice punch is the far superior option, as blaze kick only does minimally more damage to bronzor and can play mindgames with a protecting snover.

    Edit: iirc riolu doesn't even learn fake out

    month-late edit: I find payback is better than shadow claw becuase it hits with 30 more base power (60 with SE) on switches and riolu is slower than missy and gastly so it will hit for more then as well. You mentioned that shadow claw is better against croagunk, but ice punch hits harder anyway, so I don't find it necessary.
  6. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

    Aug 14, 2009
    Thanks for comment Sledge

    Your set looks pretty good but i think that Shadow claw is better than payback in most cases.

    And sorry i don't know what i thought, you're right, riolu doesn't even learn fake out. sorry for the mistake, ill fix it.


    Cursepin@Oran Berry
    Careful nature
    Evs: 196 hp/12 atk/12 def/252 sp def

    -Gunk Shot
    -Fire Punch

    Gunk Shot is here for STAB and is insanely powerful after a curse.

    Fire Punch is for coverage.

    Curse is obviously the crux of this set.

    Explosion is to go out with a big BOOM when you're done.


    The Giant Mountain@Oran Berry/Lum Berry/Passho Berry
    Modest Nature
    EVs:196 HP/36 Def/236 Sp Atk

    -Earth Power
    -Ancient Power

    Flamethrower and Earth Power are obvious STAB and offer good coverage.

    Stockpile is what makes Numel a real pain to take out. Because of Simple, Numel is left with +2 def and +2 sp def after a single stockpile and is ready to wreak havoc.

    Ancient Power offers unresisted coverage alongside flamethrower and earth power and if you're lucky and get the stats boost, Numel will be unstoppable.

    This set is stopped cold by three things:Toxic damage, a critical hit and a water attack.

    Toxic is a really rare move in LC but if you're worried, Lum Berry is an option.
    Passcho Berry is listed to make you (maybe) survive a water attack after you stockpiled so you can eliminate the threat. You can't do anything against a critical hit that will negate your boosts and surely KO you.

    It is really important to take out the water-types your opponent have before using this set.

    Thanks for reading and feel free to comment.
  7. Articanus


    Dec 2, 2006
    OK so I've been playing LC now for almost a month(I just started at the beginning of the month). I've been getting accustomed to the metagame, and I think I'm at the point where I can actually wiggle around a bit and use interesting movesets.

    I'd like to note that all of these that I list have been tested extensively. So without further wait, let's kick it off with my re-vamped Meowth Starter:

    Meowth @ Silk Scarf
    Technician: Jolly
    36 HP, 236 Attack, 196 Speed, 36 Sp. Defense
    Fake Out

    Now, what's everyone's favorite way to try to play around Meowth starters: you guessed it, Protect! This set aims to take advantage of Protect users trying to get by Fake Out. Substitute means I get at least two more attacks off, both of which more powerful than if the opponent had just taken the original Fake Out. Bite helps when behind a Sub, as it allows you to hit ghosts SE, while also having a chance to flinch. Fake Out rounds the set out, as it allows the user to play mindgames later in the match. Plus it's Little Cup: priority is required!

    Can literally find its place on any team.

    Bagon @ Oran Berry
    Rock Head: Jolly
    236 HP, 36 Defense, 116 Speed, 116 Sp. Defense
    Dragon Claw
    / Brick Break

    Dragon Dance

    In case you don't understand, what's "creative" about the sets will be in bold, green text.

    Bagon is often overlooked compared to his older brother, Dratini, due to a lack of priority move. When most people actually do use Bagon, people tend to capitalize on his three key advantages over Dratini:

    1) Type Coverage
    2) Stat Distribution
    3) Dragon Claw(Outrage isn't THAT needed, tbh)

    With the allowing of the Pomeg Glitch, Bagon had Wish introduced to his movepool. This allows him to not only act as support for pokemon, it allows him to keep his HP up as he DDs his way to victory.

    "Wish sucks in LC! Everything is 2HKOed!"

    Not true, in this case. By looking at the EV spread, you can see there is a HUGE amount of EVs devoted specifically to his defenses. In fact, there isn't a single point in his attack stat! What the EVs do is maximize his defenses, and also give him the magic 14 Speed Number. With an Oran Berry, Bagon has the ability to get the initial DD in, Wish up, then Dragon Claw the opponent for a KO while also regaining HP.

    Protect is there to be more reliable, especially in a metagame such as this where everything seems overpowered and Priority is everywhere. If you don't feel like using it, Brick Break *may* be used to hit Aron harder. The only other move you'd use, Fire Fang, is only for Bronzor, who would be set-up bait.

    This does very well if you have screens, Wynaut, WoW Missy, and Toxic Spikes/ Hail/ Sandstream. Paras gets notable mention.

    Munchlax @ Lum Berry
    Thick Fat: Adamant
    236 Attack, 36 Defense, 236 Sp. Defense
    Fire Punch / Brick Break

    "OK, now surely you're off your rocker! Munchlax can't afford a Lum Berry, Curse, AND lack of Pursuit!"

    If you think this is meant to counter ghosts, you're right. In fact, if you can get in on a Shadow Ball/Sneak, you're golden. They will try to Will-o-Wisp you or something like there, where Outrage hits them strong for a 2HKO(even a OHKO in strange cases). But the magic happens when THEY come to YOU.

    If you can get a free turn ANYWHERE in the match, Curse up and start destroying shit. Outrage holds the entire set together, as it's overall neutral-ness is perfect for a steel-ridden area like LC. Combined with Fire Punch, everything is hit for at least neutral damage. But then again Aron is more deadly versus this than Bronzor, so maybe Brick Break would be better over it, as it also takes away Reflect from Bronzor as well.

    This works well with ghosts in general since they can come in on STABed Fighting attacks, the bane of this set. Duskull is a tried and true example: serves well with Priority, WoW, Ice Beam to counter Gligar, and even Trick Room to help it sweep. Memento works if you want to make sure it sets up. Wynaut works the very same way as Ghosts, but instead of forcing them out it comes in and straight-up kills them. It can also abuse Encore to help Munchlax get in that needed set-up turn.

    The EV spread slightly bothers me: originally this was CB on my team and it kept the EV spread from that. It works, but any suggestions are greatly appreciated. ^^

  8. macle

    macle formerly Bane. (Sunflora- add 50 spe)
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Co-Leader

    Jun 21, 2008
    Dragon Dance + wish is illegal. DD is an egg move while wish is an event. (wildeep confirmed this for me)
  9. Articanus


    Dec 2, 2006
    Well that really sucks. ._.' That was one of my favorites....

    Anyway, I hate to randomly bump this, but I've been using the Munchlax set for a while(as well as the Meowth), and I was wondering if anyone else had any comments on it.
  10. Wikey


    Jul 4, 2006
    Steel is the one thing that Dragon doesn't hit neutrally. Unless you just mean that Outrage + Fire Punch + Return gets neutral coverage. In which case, I'm sure you can find better type coverage with three attacking moves without resorting to Outrage. Without stab it doesn't really do enough damage to be worth being locked into it. Especially if they can send out a steel to absorb it, they can get 1 - 2 free turns.
  11. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2008
    I'll attest to the effectiveness of Outrage on Lax. It hits hard enough, trust me. Especially when Pursuit is only doing 80 BP, Outrage seems like a godsend too be quite honest.
  12. hellmonkey


    May 1, 2008
    In my short time of comeback to LC I've tested a few things. This one has actually worked fine.
    Moveset Name: Double Boost Paras
    Move 1: Agility
    Move 2: Spore
    Move 3: Swords Dance
    Move 4: Seed Bomb
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Dry Skin
    Nature(s): Adamant
    EVs: 196 Atk/76 Def/236 Spe
    IVs: 29 HP if you like 19 HP for Life Orb

    The idea of the set is to come into something Paras can scare away. For example, the common CS Gligar Earthquake or a choiced Water move are good choices to bring in Paras. As the opponent switches, Paras uses Agility, reaching a respectable 24 Speed, enough to outrun every unboosted opponent and some 14-15 Speed CS users.

    The switch-in then often will be the best Paras counter they have. So you put it to sleep, giving you another free turn(s) to Swords Dance.

    STAB Seed Bomb may seem like a poor choice for a single attacking move. However, with a +2 boost and Life Orb it is enough to do this:

    Standard Gligar: 95.7% - 117.4%. OHKO guaranteed with Stealth Rock.
    Max HP Misdreavus: 132% - 156%
    Houndour: 100% - 114.3%
    Croagunk: 94.7% - 110.5%
    Max/max Adamant Munchlax: 84.8% - 103%
    Standard Wynaut: 96.6% - 117.2%

    No one else can get a +2 in both Speed and an attacking stat while being able to 100% sleep what it can't OHKO, or use that ability to buy itself set-up time. This guy can be a one-man wrecking crew if set up appropiately.
  13. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    Jun 5, 2009
    I'll attest to that set's effectiviness. Paras is bulky enough that late-game, it's very hard to stop.
  14. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2008
    Time to revive this thread! Controversial set incoming :)

    Sorry I feel the need to post this one more time after getting #1 with a team using this lead (it has some changes in bold):

    Moveset Name: Super Monkey Lead Jr.
    Move 1: Fake Out
    Move 2: Overheat
    Move 3: Hidden Power Grass
    Move 4: Stealth Rock
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Blaze
    Nature(s): Hasty
    EVs: 4 HP / 56 Atk / 4 Def / 216 SpA / 4 SpD / 188 Spe

    <p>Chimchar is one of the most unique Pokemon in Little Cup because of its access to both Fake Out and Stealth Rock. Chimchar really proves itself against leads such as Phanpy, Snover, Kabuto, Omantyte, and Hippopotas, who are all outsped and OHKOed by Fake Out followed by Overheat or Hidden Power Grass.</p>

    <p>Chimchar has the rare ability to stop Stealth Rock set up without being forced to use Taunt or Hypnosis. This means that Chimchar has room for Stealth Rock in its moveset, which Chimchar will more often than not get a chance to use either after it KOes the opponent's lead, or if the opponent switches out. While Chimchar doesn't beat certain leads, such as Diglett, it still never puts you at a big disadvantage if you happen to be facing these leads. For example, against Diglett you can still get Stealth Rock up and break its Focus Sash.</p>

    <p>Since Chimchar has trouble with Diglett, so using a Pokemon such as Misdreavus or Gligar to set up on Diglett is a very good way to gain momentum early game. Chimchar also has trouble with Meowth, since it is faster and can use Fake Out to break Chimchar's Focus Sash. However Meowth, unlike Diglett, does not stop Chimchar from switching out. Pokemon such as Geodude and Rhyhorn make great teammates for Chimchar, since they can easily switch into Meowth and OHKO it with Earthquake.</p>

    <p>Chimchar's ability to stop Stealth Rock from being set up on many leads makes it work quite well with powerful sweepers who need Stealth Rock off the field to function effectively, such as Taillow.</p>

    (I put <p> tags on because I hope to have this set on site eventually)

    Lots of people can attest to the effectiveness if this lead after I used it against them so many times, even SDS (I hope :P)!

    Another set I have been using:

    I need to tweak the EVs a bit, I think, however this has been working quite well:

    Moveset Name: SubTini
    Move 1: Draco Meteor
    Move 2: Fire Blast / Outrage
    Move 3: ExtremeSpeed
    Move 4: Substitute
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Shed Skin
    Nature(s): Lonely / Mild
    EVs: 244 Atk / 116 SpA / 116 Spe
    IVs: 0 HP

    This set is surprisingly good. Dratini lacks the ability to really beat its counters with any other set.

    Draco Meteor hits really hard, even off of 13/14 SpA. Couple this with a powerful Extreme Speed off of 17/16 Atk, and not much can even hope to survive two attacks. Fire Blast is for Bronzor, but Outrage does work in that slot if you already have something like Magnemite, LOdude, or something like that. Outrage really really helps Dratini wall break against Pokemon such as Munchlax and Wynaut.
  15. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

    Jul 17, 2008
    HYU, correct me if Im wrong but CHImlead was the first set posted here >.>.

    Subtini seems like a good set, but it lacks the sweeping ability of Carvanha and co due to the fact Draco Meteor lowering your offense. Extreme Speed is OK, yes, but Dratini lacks the speed without a boosting move to do much IMO.
  16. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2008
    Yes, but I changed it.
    Its ExtremeSpeed hits just as hard or harder than Carvanha's Aqua Jet, and Dratini is able to set up on more Pokemon (Scarf Chinchou, for example). Dragon-type attacks are also unbelievable will like 3 Steels in LC. I don't really see the Speed doing much.
  17. Rolf


    Jun 26, 2008
    To confirm this, you can look at the damage formula.

    (Attack*Power*Extra Bonuses)

    Dratini +Att Extremespeed = 17*80 = 1360
    Carvanha +Att Aqua Jet = 19*40*1.5 = 1140

    Dratini's priority is on average 19.3% more powerful than Carvanha's. Correct me if I did that wrong.

    PS: Zigzagoon +Att Extremespeed = 13*80*1.5 = 1560, Zigzagoon's priority is another 14.7% stronger than Dratini's and 36.8% stonger than Carvanha's

    PPS: Murkrow +Att Sucker Punch = 19*80*1.5 = 2280, Murkrow's priority is a whopping 46.1% more powerful than Zigzagoon's XS and EXACTLY two times more powerful than Carvanha's Aqua Jet. Now you know why he's banned.
  18. matty

    matty I did stuff a long time ago for the site
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    Mar 31, 2008
    One thing, on the Chimchar set you need 56 Atk EVs to get the extra point, not 52
  19. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2008
    Interesting calcs Rolf. Thanks for pointing that out Matty, I was also missing a point in SpA (it needs 216) because of HP Grass.
  20. magicman23


    Dec 7, 2009
    Reviving this thread.....NOW!
    Pokemon Name:Nidoran-m
    Moveset Name: PHAILmon
    Move 1: Sucker Punch
    Move 2: Return/ Body Slam
    Move 3: Poison Jab
    Move 4: Shadow Claw/ Double Kick
    Item:Choice Scarf
    Nature(s): Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    EVs:70 HP/220 Atk/220 Spd

    My first reaction when seeing this Pokémon was “Big piece o’ crap”, but then something caught my eye, the Rivalry ability coupled with the fact that it reaches the magic speed number of 14. The Rivalry ability activates when you face an opponent with the same gender as you, thereby giving you a +1 boost in attack. So I thought this could be abused on Shoddy because most people don’t bother with their Pokémon genders and leave them as the male default, so nearly 100% of the time I will have an attack stat equal to that of Cranidos! This set functions as a revenge killer and the surprise factor is an added bonus. Sucker Punch for the ever-useful priority boasting a sexy 80 BP. The next move is up to your choice. Return for greater power or Body Slam for the paralysis support. You can use Return if you team consists of generally fast Pokémon or Body Slam if you have slower Pokémon that need the speed advantage (like SD or NP Cacnea). Poison Jab for the obvious STAB (lol, rhyme), and the final move is quite a tricky conundrum. Shadow Claw to hit Ghosts and Psychics for SE or Double Kick for Steels and breaking subs. Without Double Kick, Steel types like Aron will wall you completely, but without Shadow Claw, a Ghost type with Substitute can set up on you with impunity.

    A pretty conventional Scarfer set. It runs max Speed and Attack and an extra point in HP for added survivability. I put only 220 EVs in Attack and Speed because that’s where they max out and 70 for 1 point in HP.
  21. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Feb 15, 2010
    With the remainder of the EVs on that Nidoran set, you can afford 36 EVs for a point in each defense, which is more economical than one point in HP.
  22. Banryu


    Feb 26, 2009
    Holy crap, I didn't know there was an LC one of these... :0 I've gotta have something LC creative around here somewhere... >.> *checks*

    In the meantime... the Nidoran set? Well my first thought is that Sucker Punch is kind of a poor choice on a Scarf set, since it makes you setup fodder for something like Totodile, Dratini, or PlotGunk that has a setup move + priority.

    Does Rivalry affect both Attack AND Special Attack? If so then Nido might pack a decent special scarf set with Sludge Bomb, Tbolt, Ice Beam, etc.
  23. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    Jun 5, 2009
    Electrike @ Oran Berry
    236 SpA/236 Spd
    IVs: 30 Atk/30 Def (Hidden Power Ice)
    Modest Nature
    Ability: Static
    (Stats: 20/9/10/17/10/16 (HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spd))
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Flamethrower
    ~ Hidden Power Ice

    This is to be passed a Agility or Rock Polish.

    Electrike destroys EVERYTHING with these three moves (except Chinchou). Once it gets a boost, you can destroy stuff or sub when necessary. The EVs give max Special Attack and enough speed for 32 speed after a boost (enough to outspeed all scarfers in LC). The only thing you need is something to remove chinchou. This can be filled with croagunk. Entry hazards are also appreciated to get some extra damage. I ran Omanyte for this purpose.
  24. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2008
    My initial reaction when seeing this set was similar, and it didn't change.

    When you're forced to use a Choice Scarf Pokemon with Return on a non-water Pokemon and Sucker Punch on a non-dark Pokemon, you know you aren't going to get anything done except get yourself swept by Gastly, Aron, Gligar, etc etc etc etc etc.

    If anything, I would run Shadow Claw / Poison Jab / Double Kick / Ice Beam If anything....

    It gets Ice Beam?? Cool.
  25. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music still not a girl, sry
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    Jan 25, 2008
    Actually Nidoran gets Ice Beam so it doesn't really need to run HP Ice. It also gets Head Smash but umm whatever.

    If I was using a Scarf Poke I probably wouldn't choose Nidoran (I'd just go with Cranidos).

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